209

I'm referring to this answer, (screenshot for <10K) in particular, where the question was clearly not of the best quality, but my answer to it addressed the issues with it. Is it okay to downvote an answer just because a question is bad, even if the answer addresses the issues with the question?

6
  • 3
    I believe this is the controlling position from Meta Stack Exchange: Should one downvote answers to off-topic questions?
    – jww
    Commented Jun 1, 2018 at 17:38
  • 16
    No, that's just the answer you personally like because it gives you an excuse to crap all over all the answers to every question you don't like. The accepted answer here is the correct one. Bad questions get downvoted and closed - that's how the people posting them learn and there's just no need to do anything else. Punishing people who provide good answers to bad questions by downvoting the answers is just misleading the person who posted it and anyone reading it into thinking there's something wrong with what might be a perfectly good answer
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Aug 14, 2018 at 12:37
  • 11
    Answers on bad questions should be downvoted because there should be no answers on a bad question. Do you give a horrible and cruel boss kindness and recognition merely because they are the manager? Or do you complain, steer clear etc? There should be no answers on a bad question, the answerer should know this and by not downvoting they never will. They'll continue to answer low quality questions and impede the ability to close the question and make it go away.
    – James
    Commented Jun 14, 2019 at 20:10
  • 1
    Why not make it automatic—e.g. penalize answers to bad questions with a constant penalty (e.g. -20) and maybe also with a variable part that’s proportional to how far downvoted the question is. So instead of a possible rep boost, answers to downvoted questions are automatically and possibly considerably so a rep penalty. E.g. if you answer a question that has a vote of -4 you might take a rep hit of -20 + -5 * |-4| = -40, equivalent to if you had gotten 4 net upvotes on an answer to a good (i.e. net upvoted) question. I imagine this would quickly have the desired impact.
    – bob
    Commented Jul 1, 2023 at 20:28
  • 1
    Maybe pair it with an automated private message to the user so they know why they took the penalty AND give them the option to delete their answer and undo the damage to their rep. Bottom line: make this automatic because leaving it to humans to enforce clearly isn’t working and won’t work. It’s like a game of wack-a-mole during a mole population explosion. Humans can’t keep up, automated processes can and were literally designed for problems like this.
    – bob
    Commented Jul 1, 2023 at 20:33
  • 1
    If this becomes a thing people will think twice about answering questions that are either clearly bad or heavily downvoted, which if that happens enough will hopefully stem the flood of OP’s abusing SO. Once they don’t get what they want they’ll move on instead of becoming repeat offenders. And they’ll move on on their own without requiring overtaxed mods to have to find and ban them.
    – bob
    Commented Jul 1, 2023 at 20:36

20 Answers 20

278

No, that is not appropriate. Answers should be voted up or down on their own merits.

Note though that everyone is free to vote as they please.

27
  • 16
    @TedHopp Why not? Because it's highly subjective and hard for a moderator to deal with.
    – bjb568
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 3:08
  • 24
    @ted - flags like that would be declined because there's nothing mod actionable in it. I'm not a big fan of that turn of phrase either to be honest. Commented May 20, 2014 at 5:51
  • 18
    Dilbert: I disagree. Questions can have negative votes because of bad style (writing). Then, a proper answer still can be given (but is more costly for the writer given that he has to interpret a badly written question). Don't think this qualifies as whoring.
    – FooBar
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 11:42
  • 46
    @Ian You are making assumptions about someone's motivation. Sometimes I help people who have "bad" questions because it is clear they are new and struggling and perhaps not a native English speaker, but while others don't understand what they are asking, I do. I really don't care about the points.
    – AaronLS
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:21
  • 28
    Don't forget the reversal badge which is awarded for providing a high scoring answer (+20) on a bad question (-5)
    – Joe W
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:59
  • 23
    What a short-sighted view !! If an answer is judged 'on its own merit', then answers to bad questions will be rewarded, hence encouraged. But answering a bad question is already a proof that the answerer is fishing for rep and not caring about adding noise to the site. Noise, not information. Commented May 21, 2014 at 16:01
  • 68
    @GameAlchemist, no, you need to stop assuming motives. Most of the time people just want to help people. I'm happy I was able to get answers to my imperfect questions. Commented May 21, 2014 at 16:10
  • 23
    @LanceRoberts : :-) :-) You're also assuming motives, Lance, just the optimistic ones vs my more pessimistic ones. When i talk of a bad question, i mean one that shows the O.P. did no effort (and quite often he won't later upvote/comment/accept answer). For people who just got lost at some point while trying and fail to be clear explaining the issue, i happily answer to help. Commented May 21, 2014 at 16:17
  • 27
    If it really is "bad" to answer a downvoted question, then why on earth do we have the "Reversal" badge? Commented May 21, 2014 at 16:31
  • 29
    @GameAlchemist grrrrr. short sited view? Stop trying to stop people from answering questions. This is a perversion of the system. The stated goal of this site is ... to build a library of detailed answers to **every** programming question. I would be very interested to hear how discouraging people from answering questions services that goal. My question would simply be was the answer good or bad? If its a bad answer to a bad question fine. If you are just straight ticket downvote all the answers regardless of quality that is quite the d-move.
    – nsfyn55
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 20:20
  • 33
    "Answers should be voted up or down on their own merits." I think this depends on what exactly we count as "their own merits". There are some very common duplicate questions, and the tooltip on answers says "This answer is not useful." A good answer to a oft-repeated duplicate may be useful to the immediate asker, but it's not so useful to Stack Overflow as a whole, because it dilutes the potential of a canonical answer. Commented May 23, 2014 at 19:06
  • 2
    @javadba If you look at some of the tags that I'm active, I think you'll find that I'm one of those who answers a lot of corner cases and niche targets. If a canonical question/answer would answer another question, then the latter should be closed a duplicate. I'm not sure how continuing with that existing practice is prejudicial (except of course that it favors the existing answers that are already sufficient to new answers that would also be sufficient). Commented May 24, 2014 at 19:13
  • 2
    @javadba No worries. I've just been particularly aware of this lately because of this question in which a 92k rep user posted an answer in tag that the user is active in for which there are lots of duplicates already. I left a comment there explaining that it's really not useful to have so many duplicates, although they can be hard to search for. Commented May 24, 2014 at 19:31
  • 5
    @WarrenDew And, just to wrap up this point :), here's another duplicate that appeared today of that same error message with a (different) 100k user giving an answer. Commented May 27, 2014 at 18:33
  • 4
    @MrUpsidown, because while it's not appropriate there are no rules that tell someone how they must vote. Everyone is free to vote as they please, and some will vote inappropriately. Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 21:14
163

There's a segment of the user population on SO that holds that one should not answer bad questions and that when someone answers a bad question then the answer should be downvoted. So these users will say it is okay.

Other users don't agree. So they'll say it's not okay.

However, according to SO's rules, so long as a user does not engage in vote fraud, they can vote whichever way they want. So moderators won't intervene to reverse such votes.

13
  • 19
    I do that in one circumstance only: I downvote answers to questions which are blatantly off topic - example. The logic is however the same I use for all answers "are they useful?" - in this and similar cases, of course they aren't.
    – AD7six
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 17:04
  • 12
    +1 And sometimes they (the "segment") even start to comment you better delete your answer. To me this very much looks like someone's ego running amok.
    – JensG
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 20:07
  • 60
    Downvote the question not the answer. sheesh. Commented May 22, 2014 at 20:13
  • 1
    Would it be considered voting fraud to just mass up-vote every single answer to every single poorly-received question I see? (basically what people are doing, but opposite and positive?) I want to try to undo these effects if there is a rift here... to help become more effective at fighting this voting war... but only if that's likewise not considered voting fraud.
    – user4842163
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 15:49
  • @Ike Being conflicted is understandable, but please be careful about your perception of downvotes. Other people may be seeing something you are not seeing, or just have different standards for quality than yours. For instance, someone may downvote a code-only answer that works because for this person, the answer would need some explanation of what is going on in order to be useful.
    – Louis
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 15:51
  • @Louis Very true -- but that one linked is highly suspect, no? There was even a comment on the lower one (but that one had genuine reasons for a downvote besides this) suggesting that part of the reason for it being down-voted was because it was to a poor question.
    – user4842163
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 15:54
  • 2
    @Ike "Would it be considered voting fraud to just mass up-vote every single answer to every single poorly-received question I see?" I don't think it would be considered fraud but this only tells you that mods, SE employees, or vote reversal scripts would not intervene. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of us in the community would not approve.
    – Louis
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 15:56
  • 2
    @Louis I see.. the thing is, if the message is clear and there wasn't a rift here, if we could unite and agree that answering a bad question is always a bad thing to do, I would happily join the camp that's down-voting to punish. When I get two different messages all the time I see guys like Alex there who are terribly confused about why they were down-voted, and my conscience sides with them. When the message isn't clear, I get mixed up about my ethics.
    – user4842163
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 15:57
  • 3
    @Ike You'll have to decide for yourself what your standards are. On some topics like this one the community is divided, and there is no way to enforce a specific rule. Suppose that tomorrow moderators would say "downvoting answers on bad questions just because the question is bad will be considered bad voting, and reverted". What do you think will happen? People will make sure not to leave any comment even giving a whiff that they've downvoted to prevent answering bad questions. So the practice will continue. (Never mind that having moderators validate votes does not scale.)
    – Louis
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 16:01
  • 2
    @Louis Feels like picking sides in a battle! :-D I guess I need to make up my mind and pick one side. I think it's only awkward because of the rift -- because the answerers aren't learning if it's clearly bad or good to answer in these spots... they're getting mixed messages like I am and that's why I think we see a 60k+, long-standing member so confused about what's going on while just earnestly trying to provide an answer.
    – user4842163
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 16:03
  • 7
    @Ike It is possible to disagree with people who downvote answers to bad questions to prevent these questions being answered, and yet not try to counter with your own votes. Indeed, I think that voting only to counter another vote is not a good use of voting, and in fact by doing so you are validating anyone who would counter your vote because they don't agree with the way you vote. If someone sees "I've upvoted to counter the -1" you cannot then say they cannot downvote to counter your vote because that's exactly what you did (counter another vote) in the first place.
    – Louis
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 16:11
  • 3
    @Ike Upvoting because this is what you would have done anyway is fine.
    – Louis
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 16:14
  • This doesn't answer the question. It merely skirts it. The question wasn't whether downvoting good answers to bad questions is allowed, but whether it's "okay" (appropriate).
    – isherwood
    Commented Feb 13 at 0:52
146

I'll refer you to my answer from earlier today, where I articulate this in a little more detail, but I believe that downvoting answers because they answered bad questions is ultimately counterproductive. Everyone makes the assumption that if we stop answering bad questions they'll stop coming. I do not believe this is the case.

The kind of people asking bad questions won't care if we stopped answering bad questions, because they don't realize their questions are bad and because they are desperate to have people do their work for them. These are the same people who posted dozens of terrible programming questions to Meta every day (until the reputation requirement kicked in), despite not a single programming question there being answered (or even allowed to live more than a couple hours).

One thing I can tell you is that if you start targeting downvotes at experts who are just trying to help, you will start to drive those people away. I've already seen this in a few cases. These experts are the ones helping to provide great content for this site, and I want to do what I can to keep them feeling welcome here.

I strongly believe that downvotes should only come based on the quality or correctness of the post you are voting on, and nothing else. Not because of the person leaving the post, and not as a warning to discourage them from answering questions you consider to be bad. It's up to you as to how you choose to vote, but that's my take.

18
  • 56
    "Everyone makes the assumption that if we stop answering bad questions they'll stop coming. I do not believe this is the case." That's the key point in a nutshell. Commented Jul 15, 2014 at 12:22
  • 7
    If you only accept stopping them all as good enough, that's trivially proven true. If you see a significant reduction of their number as worthwhile, this really needs supporting data. Not that the opposite camp has better data... Commented Apr 20, 2015 at 16:48
  • 5
    It's easy to see how after a single CS101 student gets a bad and trivial homework question answered, the whole course winds up here with their homework, including the bad and trivial. Your initial assumption is just that, without any corroboration (the anecdotal evidence you mention notwithstanding; but my guess is that the old Meta SO would have had a multitude of OT posts if all of them had been given a perfect answer instead of having been deleted). Commented Apr 7, 2016 at 15:26
  • 7
    I disagree with your take and with your premise. In your earlier answer, you point at people coming to SO through google, and you point to old meta getting lots of programming questions in spite of them being scrubbed immediately. I agree new bad questioners would still come as often, but would they keep adding new, bad questions if they got rejected? What would the state of Meta be now if those bad programming questions got answered instead of killed? You really think Meta would not be inundated with bad programming questions from repeat offenders, if they got answers instead of deletes.
    – user4843530
    Commented Apr 7, 2016 at 15:31
  • 5
    And if we answer bad questions, the ban on repeat offenders only gets them after they have had several homework lessons done for them - reason enough for them to create a new account and come back for more, and reason enough for me to downvote an answer to a bad question.
    – user4843530
    Commented Apr 7, 2016 at 15:37
  • 10
    @AgapwIesu - I've seen (and deleted) many question-ban-evasion accounts by users who never received answers on any of their previous questions. They still kept coming back, because they needed people to do their work for them and this is the most popular programming site in the world. Most people don't have any kind of self-awareness about their questions being bad. How many of them look around the site and see what questions have been closed or downvoted? Meanwhile, I see good deeds being punished when helpful people are being told to stop contributing good content, and that irritates me.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Apr 7, 2016 at 15:46
  • 2
    And how many question-ban-evasion accounts get deleted from repeat offenders who did get answers and so came back for more? And how would you identify it when an bad-question offender was motivated because he did a google search and found an answer to someone asking SO to write a simple regex expression for them, and he needs another similarly simple regex expression? And how many of these last ones are the horribly non-self-aware people you are talking about - they did not get an answer, but others get them so why not keep trying? Practically zero effort, so low chance of reward is ok.
    – user4843530
    Commented Apr 7, 2016 at 15:52
  • 3
  • 7
    "Everyone makes the assumption that if we stop answering bad questions they'll stop coming. I do not believe this is the case." This is definitely true. Every year there are new people, even if we stop the older generations from asking bad questions by not answering them, there is no way we can stop new users from asking them. It will only stop when the human race extinct or when SO is shut down. +1 for your post. I am glad you are the moderator. Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 18:02
  • 4
    One thing I can tell you is that if you start targeting downvotes at experts who are just trying to help, you will start to drive those people away. I've already seen this in a few cases. I've seen some cases too. It's sad. I've tried to help by leaving a comment to their answers, but the harm is not always reversible. They've already put some of their valuable time to help somebody and got slapped as a thank you. Commented Jul 4, 2017 at 21:47
  • 1
    @user3437460 I really like your argument about the generations. Funny, but very true. And yes, it is awesome to have moderators like Brad ;). Commented Jul 4, 2017 at 21:52
  • 3
    I disagree, as I've seen a user who started with decent questions and over time they descend into "gimme teh codez" because people still answer them. We can't stop new users, but we can encourage repeat offenders to change their ways. I think it's subjective what consitutes "bad enough", but there is a place for it in my book. Commented Jul 17, 2017 at 19:31
  • 4
    "if you start targeting downvotes at experts who are just trying to help" If they are answering bad questions then let them leave. They're just feeding the lazy askers, which leads me onto "Everyone makes the assumption that if we stop answering bad questions they'll stop coming" I am part of "everyone" and I do not think that. I do however believe that answering lazy questions is not fair on those who take the time to ask a good one (as we ask them to), and they just do it again. Why not, by posting the tiniest laziest questions, they got an answer last time, the time before that....
    – James
    Commented Apr 1, 2018 at 2:53
  • 5
    You say that downvoting answers to bad questions will drive away the experts. But do the true experts answer such questions (much)? Or are the answerers those with barely more ability than the asker of the question?
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jun 23, 2019 at 8:51
  • 3
    "One thing I can tell you is that if you start targeting downvotes at experts who are just trying to help, you will start to drive those people away. I've already seen this in a few cases. " I'm not convinced. I'm an expert, and I'm definitely not motivated by reputation in that way. Experts who keep "trying to help" by answering low quality questions are going to burn out very quickly. They also should be advised that their talents are much better spent on well-asked questions - and on helping clean up garbage that accumulated because we ignored that principle. Commented May 31, 2022 at 23:07
84

As per the hover text:

This answer is not useful.

Some questions are so bad that directly answering them can't make for anything with particularly long long-term value (i.e. it's not all that useful).

Secondly, you're encouraging unwanted behaviour (of asking those types of questions) by answering it, and thus, by implication, are behaving in an unwanted way yourself - downvoting content representing unwanted behaviour is appropriate AFAIK.

Lastly, it can be argued that an answer just providing the code is not particularly helpful. The first revision did very little more than just provide the code, but even after your edit, I still doubt it will help OP much (perhaps because I think OP doesn't want to be helped), and is possibly even actively harmful to their learning process, as you're taking the "figuring it out by themselves" part away from them, and you're preventing their teacher from being able to address them not being able to figure it out, as opposed to thinking they're managing, leading to much more serious problems later.

11
  • 35
    I disagree with your first two points. It's entirely possible to have a useful answer to a bad question, and answering bad questions is not, in itself, a bad thing. There's even a badge for doing it exceptionally well! Evidently SO encourages the very behavior you claim (in your second point) should be downvoted.
    – Ted Hopp
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 3:03
  • 4
    Salvaging bad questions may occasionally be possible, but this was not one of those cases.
    – nobody
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 3:07
  • 13
    @TedHopp It depends on the type of bad question. Answering "W U NO WERK" is actively harming the site. Answering a vague and poorly formatted question, then editing it is great for the site.
    – bjb568
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 3:08
  • 3
    @bjb568 - I agree that it depends on the question. After Dukeling's edit, I no longer have an issue with this answer (and it earns a +1 from me). The earlier wording seemed too absolutist.
    – Ted Hopp
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 3:10
  • 5
    @TedHopp: given that the reversal badge has only been awarded 179 times, there is not much merit in using it as an example that bad questions can get good answers.
    – ninjalj
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:55
  • 7
    @ninjalj: Better: Considering that the reversal badge has only been awarded 186 times, and nearly all of those posts are deleted, there is not much merit in using it as an example that bad questions can get good answers. Commented Sep 13, 2014 at 18:24
  • @Deduplicator Awkward thing here: "good" here by badge standards is defined by votes, by Ted's standards I imagine he's referring to "good" as informative and addressing the author (and what kind of votes it might attract with wide attention), bad questions are unlikely to be viewed much after a period with the traffic. One of the things is that even those awkward questions that seem to require a mind-reader that I'd be tempted to down-vote can actually turn into an, "aha, that's what he meant!" moment when I see the answer, which almost seems better for not only answering but also clarifying.
    – user4842163
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 22:49
  • At the very least, a good answer to a bad question can be useful if it's a common bad question, by allowing that question to be used as a duplicate source. Commented May 11, 2017 at 21:53
  • @JustinTime Unsalvageably bad questions have no place on Stack Overflow. If it's a particularly common question, it's probably either not such a bad question or a reference post should be make on the topic (or one already exists, along with 50 million duplicates). The key word is "unsalvageable", i.e. a reasonable edit (by another user) can't turn it into an appropriate question. Commented May 11, 2017 at 22:17
  • 1
    @Dukeling True. I'm not talking about unsalvageable ones, though (mainly because if they're that bad, they probably won't be getting any good answers anyways); I was thinking more of ones that are easy to answer but show a lack of research or a lack of desire to actually understand the issue, ones that appear to be typical "help vampire" questions, or similar cases. In cases like this, having one with a good answer allows the others to be marked as duplicates of it (closing them faster), and provides a valid answer (reducing the probability of the OP reposting their question). Commented May 11, 2017 at 22:57
  • There’s another class of truly bad questions that are of the “I’m too green to ask questions that would help others; I should be doing tutorials and googling at this stage of my learning instead”. E.g. “why doesn’t addition work in Python?” when you’re trying to add a number and a dict is fundamentally a bad question because SO isn’t here to teach people to code—there are tutorials on the addition operator in Python e.g. that we can reasonably expect new learners to read and grasp at least at some level before asking questions. At least for the basics.
    – bob
    Commented Jul 1, 2023 at 20:54
28

From a post on Meta.SE:

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a "good answer" to a "bad question".

If the answer is good and useful it implies that the question is actually a good question too. It might be expressed badly or have suffered from some initial down-votes before it was knocked into shape, but ultimately it must have some use if the answers are good.

If the question is a poor one, providing an informative answer not only rewards the person asking it (who cares about fake internet points?), but also serves as an example that asking poor questions can get informative responses.

However, the nature of the system means that these often stick around (especially when up voted) and makes it harder to find the good questions with good answers. This makes the site itself that much harder to use and all the more junk accumulate in the search results and new questions (because someone will give an answer).

The existence of 'good answers' on bad questions is thus a problematic thing, both in deciding if its a good answer in the first place, and also in the encouragement of more bad questions.

The down vote mouseover for an answer reads 'this is not useful'. If the question as a whole is not useful, one should consider if the answer itself is also not useful.

The best way to 'rescue' a question is not with a good answer, but with a good edit and a good answer.

5
  • OK. In my case I think it probably wasn't possible to salvage the question with edits. Probably should have just looked the other way ..
    – wim
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 10:18
  • 1
    @wim it might have been better to quickly close it as a dup. If that doesn't solve the issue for the OP, then get them to improve the question.
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 13:37
  • see also: Should one advise on off-topic questions?
    – gnat
    Commented Nov 12, 2014 at 12:16
  • 1
    Merged from: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/274919/…
    – Shog9
    Commented May 26, 2016 at 16:25
  • At the very least, a good answer to a bad question can be useful if it's a common bad question, by allowing that question to be used as a duplicate source. Commented May 11, 2017 at 21:52
17

Vote how you please on the answers - it probably makes little difference.

However, a bad question should be closed as quickly as possible - that alone prevents answers being added. Downvoting a bad question also reduces its exposure - and will thus also reduce answers.

Downvote, vote to close, maybe both, and flag it if it's really bad.

If we have no bad questions we won't have to worry about whether we should penalise people for answering them.

8
  • 1
    But how do you flag an answer that isn't bad, but should never have been answered in the first place? Another example: OP has no code, yet still gets 3 answers - one of which is fundamentally wrong, but people won't downvote because of the cost
    – user764357
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 2:50
  • Also, bad questions can never be closed faster than they can be asked. Why not try stop the source of bad questions, make answering bad questions less of a repwhore opportunity by lowering the barrier to downvoting.
    – user764357
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 2:54
  • @LegoStormtroopr: Heh. I've got a couple of rep points to spare. Downvoted and delvoted the crappy answer. :P Thanks for pointing it out.
    – cHao
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 3:15
  • 2
    @LegoStormtroopr: The accepted answer, on the other hand, answers the question. The fact that there's no substantial code in the question doesn't automatically make the question bad. I understood it just fine. The lack of code first suggests a subpar amount of effort...but really, if you didn't know how to cycle through a bunch of functions, what code would you have written before you turned to Google? What good would it really be to someone answering the question? And what would you have googled, anyway?
    – cHao
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 3:29
  • FYI: merged from meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255853/…
    – Shog9
    Commented May 26, 2016 at 16:26
  • @user764357 There is a better solution to what you called "repwhore". If a question is closed, all rep earned on all its answers is lost. The vote count stays, but rep is lost (In rare cases when question is reopened, all rep is earned back). This makes it not worth the efforts for "repwhore". Those who answer such questions just to help rather than for rep, will not care for the lost rep because it is not their goal and because they know the consequence beforehand, but at the same time their answers will not be punished with downvotes. Commented Jul 4, 2017 at 19:24
  • @Racil That has been suggested (that's just one example, it was suggested prior to that, and there have been more recent incarnations of that suggestion).
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 19:22
  • @TinyGiant Thanks for the pointer. Good answer, upvoted it. I like the queries too. I ran them on my ID and was happy to see that I only earned 340 from answering 20 bad questions. :-) Oh, and I'm glad you're still alive after sacrificing your life to SO :-), just kidding. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 20:49
14

The base assumption is incorrect.

Answering bad questions encourages people to write bad questions.

Having a question answered means that the user is probably going to ask another one. Not having a question answered also means that the user is probably going to ask another one. If a bad question was terribly received but had an answer, then the next question may be a good question because it was terribly received, but not because it was answered. Answering a question does not cause a bad question to suddenly appear. Answering a poorly received question does not lead to another poorly received question. The OP presumably will learn with time and their questions will improve or they get banned.

For the most part, users are not creating bad questions on purpose. They create bad questions from a language barrier, some self imposed critical time frame, out of ignorance of the style of asking here, or from a similar type of accident.

People answering "bad questions" are just trying to bridge the gap between where the OP took a bad turn in asking and where the OP really meant to go. It isn't easy, and it doesn't always solve the problem. However, these people are usually trying very hard to help build valuable content. They are not the ones that should be "punished".

The whole notion of "tactical downvoting" is ridiculous. There is no advantage to be gained from voting good content down. It flies in the face of the core purpose of voting, and there are even automated processes to stop it when the "tact" becomes malicious.

67
  • 13
    When people ask bad questions and don't get answers they learn that they need to ask good questions or they won't get answers. When they get answers for posting bad questions, they have no idea that there is a problem and no incentive to change a thing.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:11
  • 7
    @Servy - When they ask bad questions, their questions are downvoted and closed. They may run into a question ban. They are given incentive to ask higher quality questions. Closure prevents answers. If users want to take their time to answer a question regardless of its quality that should be their prerogative. Punishing answers is a terrible idea to control questions and is proven to not work.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:15
  • 6
    @Servy - The attitude of punishing answers because of a disagreement with the question, and the perpetuation of that attitude, is harmful.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:15
  • 9
    If those same questions get answers then that simply incentivises them to subvert the question ban in some way, shape, or form. That's as simple as deleting their old account and creating a new account. Just because not answering bad questions doesn't remove/prevent all bad questions in no way means that it doesn't reduce the number of bad questions. When there are users out there who have asked hundreds of bad questions simply because because for them they get answers, they'll keep asking.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:25
  • 7
    Additionally the answers to these questions usually aren't helpful. Low quality questions are low quality (by definition) because they attract low quality answers. Answers to unclear, improperly scoped, poorly research, etc. questions usually aren't helpful (even if technically correct). When the question isn't clear one cannot evaluate it's correctness, and others won't be able to find the page even if it is valid, broad questions virtually always results in answers that are incomplete, and so on.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:28
  • 4
    @Servy - Answers are the value here. Questions can have action taken against them for quality, but when there are high quality answers to mediocre questions it makes absolutely no sense to punish the answerer. If the answer is low quality or does not answer the question then by all means down vote it. But when there is a valid answer, down voting it because of a disagreement with the question is just plain wrong.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:31
  • 9
    "We feel that the world is awash in questions, but not answers. Answers are the real unit of work in any Q&A system. Therefore, the only logical thing to do is to maximize the happiness and enjoyment of answerers. If this means aggressively downvoting or closing unworthy and uninteresting questions, so be it. Without a community of people willing to answer questions, it really doesn’t matter if there are questions at all, does it?" -Stack Exchange blog
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:31
  • 7
    But these answers largely aren't of value. That's the whole point. You claim that they are valuable but in virtually all cases they aren't. An important point to realize is that blog post isn't talking about anyone posting any answers, but the people posting answers that are the types of answers that we want here. Quality answers to quality questions that are providing substantial value to the entire programming community, rather than low quality answers to low quality questions that aren't adding any value to the programming community.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:37
  • 3
    @Servy - It should not be a blanket statement. Again, if the answer is not of value then it is fair game. However, if the answer is valid, downvoting it does a disservice. Further, in the blog, they note that questions are made remarkable more often than not by incredible answers. "Is this a brilliant question? Is it even an original question? No, it’s just a mundane grain of sand question that could have been asked by anyone at any time. What makes it remarkable is the incredible answer on that question by Larian LeQuella with over 100 upvotes. Sand, meet pearl."
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:41
  • 8
    As I said earlier, bad questions result in bad answers. The entire reason the questions are bad is that they encourage bad answers. Yes, every once in a blue moon someone manages to post a good answer to a bad question. Those very rare exceptions that happen very infrequently don't need to be downvoted. The vast majority of those remaining questions are problematic, but because they're problematic, unhelpful, and of low quality for reasons that are not technical problems with the content of the answer people don't downvote these low quality answers, encouraging people to post them.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 18:58
  • 3
    @Servy - They are closed, so they must be "bad". The problem with starting a witch hunt is that people take it out of context. Bad is not properly described anywhere, it is just up to the people on the hunt. Do those answers have downvotes? No, because regardless of the question not being up to speed, the answer held value. Asking people to go through this list and downvote answers is essentially the same as calling for all answers to bad questions to be down voted.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 19:22
  • 3
    @Servy - For example, this question: stackoverflow.com/q/2378120/1026459 is rather bad. However it was viewed by a quarter of a million people and the answer it received has an almost untarnished voting record. That is because instead of voting on the answer based on question quality, the answer was voted on based on its merits. Voting on an answer based on the question itself makes no sense and adds no value.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 19:23
  • 3
    So I need to support the claim that low quality answers harms the quality of the content on the site? I'd say that it's a self-evident fact. What's your evidence for supporting the claim that low quality content doesn't harm the quality of the content on the site? That said, there is evidence. I've seen users posting dozens, if not hundreds, of low quality questions, not even bothering to do simple searches before asking questions because "it's easier to just ask on SO" then so much as stick their question into Google first.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 19:42
  • 3
    @Servy - Questions are now being regulated heavier which reduces the ability of users to reach the hundreds you claim. In the past, this was easier to do - even though users like yourself actively downvoted answers to those questions. That is because those downvotes on answers did not affect question quality whatsoever. What affects question quality is when the asker is confronted, not the answerer.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 19:51
  • 3
    A question is too broad when it would require a book to provide a quality answer to it. Making the claim that someone is going to not post their quality answer to a broad question is making the claim that they would literally post an entire book as an answer if it weren't for you not letting them, and that we're losing out because of that. Your restatement of my previous comment is making an entirely different claim.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 14, 2014 at 19:53
13

The problem, as I see it, with answers to bad questions isn't that they encourage bad questions. It is that they prevent bad questions being automatically deleted by the roomba. If someone posts an answer (for instance) pointing out a typo, and the OP accepts the answer, then the question is immune to the roomba, however downvoted it may be, and it will take multiple users coming back later to cast delete votes to get rid of it. By creating extra work, the answer is providing negative usefulness, so negative voting is appropriate. At voters' discretion.

1
  • 8
    This. I regularily downvote answers to questions which should be deleted, just to ensure they're auto-roombaed. Here's the latest example - an off-topic question asking for library recommendations which got 3 answers before being closed.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 14:11
11

And I think I understand the message ("don't pick up trash"?), but I'm not sure about that part.

It's not picking up trash by answering bad questions (without significantly editing and improving them to a satisfactory level). It's seeing the trash and not picking it up, or even adding more trash to it.

If someone asks "what is the best framework/library/tutorial for ..." It attracts low quality, not an answer, link only, spamish answers. Thus, even though the answer is probably helpful to the OP, it's not something we want people to answer since it will attract even more tool/recommendation questions.

So I have no problem having answers to those type of questions being downvoted. For other close reasons, I go on a case by case basis, usually not down voting at all, and just closing the question.

It would definitely depend on the amount of time I think the answerer put into the answer, and it's quality.

1
10

Is it okay to downvote an answer just because a question is bad, even if the answer addresses the issues with the question?

IMO, one shouldn't punish answers just because a question is of poor quality.

That said, it's often difficult to come up with good answers to bad questions. In order to answer a vague or confusing question, you have to make some assumptions about what the OP is asking. Other readers may make interpret the same question very differently, and in their understanding of the question your answer may seem incomplete, incorrect, or generally unhelpful.

Using the question you linked as an example, the OP cites 4 requirements:

  1. write a program
  2. called StarsRec
  3. prints a rectangle of stars
  4. based on user input

Your answer addresses only one of those four. While I personally agree that item #3 is the most likely point of confusion for the OP, it's also true that anyone who doesn't grok for loops is also likely to have trouble with any or all of the other three.

In other words, don't assume that the downvotes that you received are directly due to the question; they may be response to the quality of your answer.

7

Answers can't actually make a question better

A really well-written answer can demonstrate a question's potential. For example, if a question is written strangely, but a minority of subject matter experts are able to cut through that description and understand the problem precisely, then an answer could implicitly indicate that understanding. However, in this case, the person with the superior insight should edit the question to introduce that clarity. Simply saying "I assume you mean X; here's how to solve it" doesn't mean that people will be able to understand X when they read the question, because reading the question comes before reading the answer - it's both logically and physically prior to the answer on the page.

There is fairly strong consensus against trying to answer, at least, "terribly poor" questions - even dating back to an era when people were still trying to figure out what the close reasons are even for, and develop a strong theory to justify them. We ought to hold high standards, since getting good results is dependent upon that. In that discussion, an argument was also made about incentivizing further poor questions: the theory seems to be that getting answers incentivizes future participation from the same user who asked, and people who ask especially bad questions typically don't improve very much at question-asking over time.

Questions, however, can make an answer worse

Stack Overflow is, per the tour, supposed to a library of detailed, high-quality answers. But a high-quality answer requires a high-quality question, again because the question is read first. The question primes understanding of the answer. If the answer is trying to make some heroic effort to address a bad question, then it is speaking to the asker, not the audience - which is not what we want.

As pointed out by @khelwood, answering a question interferes with the Roomba. Irredeemable questions should be deleted, and the Roomba is a crucial part of that process. Redeemable bad questions should be redeemed (edited for clarity, filled out with appropriate details from the OP, presented with better MREs, whatever); if that can't happen (e.g., OP neglects to provide necessary information), then the question is no longer redeemable (by definition).

When questions (and their associated answers) don't get deleted, it harms the overall searchability of the site. Every one of these questions is something that should not be found, for any query by people using a search engine, but which risks doing so. Even if the search engine user can quickly recognize that this result is not helpful, it pushes the helpful results further apart simply by being there.

I conclude that answers on a bad question are inherently bad. Not specifically low quality (they might not be, if the question can be and is improved); they are bad in that they actively interfere with the site's mandate.

What makes a question "bad"?

Stack Overflow is a Q&A repository. The purpose of building Stack Overflow is to make it possible, for other people who have the same question, to find the answer using a search engine. The purpose of a question is to provide a search target for said other people.

There are several prerequisites for that:

  • It has to be feasible that other people actually have the same question.
  • It has to be feasible that other people can conceptualize that question in a way that allows for searching: i.e., putting enough keywords into a search engine to indicate what is being asked, and to reject other questions in the same domain well enough that the right one shows up in the first few pages of results.
  • When other people find the question with a search engine, they need to be able to recognize that they have the right question.
  • When they read the question, they need to be able to understand the framing, even though it was written by someone else.

These factors are (or at least should be) the main driving forces behind question closure reasons (aside from topicality and avoiding duplication, of course).

The reason we close typo questions is because typos are idiosyncratic and inherently not searchable. Yes, someone might make a typo that belongs to the same general class (say, a mismatched parenthesis, which might be especially pernicious in some contexts); but then they won't realistically be able to search for help until they have already identified the issue (the question just linked is useful for getting certain kinds of typo questions closed faster, but it is also useful for reference for people who want to understand how the Python parser works).

The reason we close unclear questions isn't only because we don't want people guessing at what they mean; it's because a clear setup is essential to presenting information to third parties in the Q&A format.

The reason we close unfocused questions isn't only because we want answers to be of a reasonable length; it's because "how do I do X and then do Y" isn't a sane approach to composing practical search queries.

Answers actually should not "address issues with the question"

As Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum, answers in the answer section are not an appropriate place to include feedback about why and how the question falls short of standards. Commentary like "you need to describe what you want the user input to do. Input rows? Columns? You need to make your question more specific." absolutely does not belong in answers. That's what comments are for.

Aside from that, How to Answer already explicitly counsels us to "answer well-asked questions", and asserts that "not all questions can or should be answered here". My view is that most Stack Overflow users don't take this principle remotely seriously enough. Explaining concepts like loops, when OP didn't ask a specific question about loops, is again speaking to the asker, not the audience. The goal is to answer a question. Good pedagogy is not the same thing as good question-answering.

Downvotes are for bad content

If the answer is bad, it should be downvoted. This signals to its author that there is a problem (which includes "this should not be attempted at all"), and also helps with the Roomba (downvoting an answer makes it harder for that answer to reach a positive score, which makes it harder for that answer to interfere with "abandoned closed" deletion).

Again, if the answer is on a bad question, it is bad, unless and until the question is improved. Rather than simply answer, Stack Overflow users should take whatever steps are available to them to improve the question, because of the importance of question quality.

Therefore, yes, downvoting answers to bad questions is okay, and in fact necessary to the optimal operation of the site.

1
  • 1
    "the person with the superior insight should edit the question to introduce that clarity" This is an idealistic sentiment but not a realistic one for many users. The edit queue is more often full than not, blocking edits from users with <2k rep. It also assumes that the user feels as confident using English as they do with programming, which is not true of everyone.
    – Laurel
    Commented Mar 6, 2023 at 22:50
6

Just because a question is bad currently doesn't mean that an answer is bad. If there is a good answer on a bad question, don't punish the answerer for providing a good answer but not doing enough work - that's lazy and rude.

In this case, if you feel like downvoting an answer because they just answered and didn't provide the edit required to make the question good too, think first - can you provide that edit that makes the question good? If you don't have time, maybe the person who gave the answer also didn't have the time to both answer the question and tidy it up... Should they get downvoted for it?

For this purpose I'm not defining answers that are well-researched subjective opinions (e.g. "tool X is great for blah because blah" in response to requests for tool recommendations) as good answers, because, well, there can be no good answers to questions that are bad for those kinds of reasons.

Sometimes a question is bad just because the OP sucked at explaining things. You might have to work really hard to identify what they were asking, but you can still provide a good answer. In these cases, the question may be bad, but don't downvote the answer.

1
0

Sometimes, yes.

You should usually vote an answer not based on the question's quality, but by the answer's own merits. However, there are exceptions such as when questions are very inapropriate for Stack Overflow.

Let's say there's an extremely off-topic question, "What's the best Viagra?"

Now some user posts a legit answer, recommending their favorite Viagra brand with detailed descriptions and references to reputable Viagra sellers.

Should you downvote the answer? Absolutely! Downvoting tells the answerer that they shouldn't answer questions about Viagra because it adds even more noise to the site.

That's when you should downvote "good" answers to bad questions.

2
  • 2
    People seem to disagree.
    – user1228
    Commented Jul 31, 2018 at 16:35
  • 5
    Downvoting to punish a person is far worse of a misconduct than answering a bad question. You don't make up your own rules, use the tools as they are intended. Voting is to indicate content quality and nothing more. If you don't want to upvote a good answer that's fine, not voting is a perfectly valid option. But don't downvote good answers. You will be part of the problem if you do that.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 5, 2019 at 8:49
-1

To throw my hat in, down voting a good answer to a bad question is just mean. I know I asked some bad questions in the beginning, the question was down voted but I still got help - which I really needed, and made me want to learn the ins and outs of this site. I would hate to think that the thank you that the person taking the time to answer my poorly worded question is a slap of any type.

Downvote the question, give a quick reason why and be willing to accept the fact that yes, a lot of your answers may not even be viewed. I just look at it as casting some bread on the water...some of it is gonna come back in the form of a better new user.

1
-3

It is appropriate to downvote anything you feel like downvoting, you earned the rep you get to decide how to spend it and you are under no obligation to anyone to explain your decision to do so.

0
-4

I wanted to weigh in on this -

Yes it is perfectly acceptable. IMO this is a community site where the community drives behavior and if you choose to use your vote and lower your reputation to discourage answering bad questions with answers that in your opinion aren't needed or you feel the answer is negatively affecting the community than by all means downvote.

If other users feel that the downvote was unwarranted they always have the option to upvote and reverse your feelings on the subject. It's the same reason the highest rated answer to this question is currently at +92 / -15. In mine and 14 other community members it is a poor answer. It doesn't mean it's not right nor that it is wrong, just that we don't agree or approve of it.

7
  • 10
    There is already a mechanism for the community to directly discourage bad questions: down vote the question.
    – Schwern
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 18:30
  • 4
    I just had people upvote my answers as a direct reaction (as stated in the comments) to the downvotes being unfair and directed at the question. The incentive there is that I would have broken even on rep had they NOT downvoted, instead I received +10 for everyone who thinks answers should be treated on their own, and -2 for everyone thinking they are part of the question, and trying to manipulate people's actions using Reputation Points as incentive. Backfire. For the record, I don't want either of those votes, up or down. I want votes based on my answer, not the question.
    – peege
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:16
  • 1
    This answer is a perfect mix - +10 - 11 :)
    – PW Kad
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:36
  • 1
    I thought this had 0 votes when I came upon it, which seemed very odd, then I expanded the votes and laughed +13/-13 perfect example of it's own premise. The community is going to vote however the community thinks is best. Trying to force people to vote within a set of guidelines is pointless.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 19, 2015 at 16:21
  • 1
    @TinyGiant I think that's too much of black & white. We either force people or let them do what they want. Well my friend, life is much richer than that. Nobody want's to be forced, so I'm glad that you don't want to force people. However, there are many other mechanisms. We can encourage, discourage, educate. In fact, the entire SO is built upon those mechanisms, which is what makes it great. Behavior takes a long time to change, but it will. Did you behave the same way when you started on SO as you do now? I bet not, me neither, we learnt and changed, we grew up with SO. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 13:14
  • 1
    They may take our lives, but they will never take our [voting] freedom! @Racil
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 14:30
  • 1
    @TinyGiant lol, take it easy, it's just a site and not worth losing you life for :-). Now I see where this is coming from, we lack freedom in our real lives, so we don't want to lose it in or online lives. Hmmm! Makes sense, but perhaps we need some political forum to practice and enjoy freedom there where it is even more rewarding than a technical Q&A site. Oh well, if that's all we've got, then that's all we've got. Viva freedom for all of us! :-) Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 16:13
-8

I also think that everyone should be able to share opinions freely and one way to do so is to vote up or down. But it is better if you comment the reason behind your vote. And consider the answer's relevancy in the question's domain.

3
  • 4
    It is not at all always a good idea to comment. I've already had several occasions where I decided to comment to provide tips on how to improve or link to the site rules - only to get blasted with abuse because someone else decided to downvote at the same time triggering the author to assume it was me; when you get to that point, there is no salvaging the situation anymore. Often it is just better to shut up and let the site do its work first.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 3, 2017 at 13:37
  • @Gimby On Stack Overflow, the idea of getting "blasted with abuse" is pretty avoidable. If someone is rude enough to get offended at your comment for how they could be better, whether or not is was accompanied by a downvote, then they weren't willing to improve their question, so just close the tab and move on. Since Stack Overflow doesn't have private messages, message boards, etc., you'll probably never see that person again. If they try to serial downvote you, it'll be reversed. But if they do take your advice, then SO will be better off. So please do take the time to comment.
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 17:57
  • 2
    @DavyM I said it is not always a good idea to comment, I never said "don't comment" or "I never comment". I also don't really see how the situation is avoidable when the only advice you are giving is in response to being blasted with abuse.
    – Gimby
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 9:56
-12

I would say "No", for several reasons:

  • Strategic up/downvoting should generally be frowned upon. As much as possible, I think we should stick to upvoting and downvoting on the merits.
  • In my very personal opinion, there's too much downvoting on SO in general. Downvoting is an offensive act, and is distressing or painful for people who have invested some effort in a good-faith question or answer. When someone says "I would love to downvote XYZ things more" - that sounds awful! People are a lot more negative and un-supportive on SO than on, say, tex.stackexchange.com.
  • People's "desire to punish" an answer on an inappropriate question should be satisfied by, at the most, not up-voting it or making a negative comment.
  • A comment is much more expressive than a down-vote anyway. Especially if what you want to say is "you should not be answering this question".
  • Maybe you think it's a bad question. The person who wrote the answer might not agree.
8
  • 1
    FYI: merged from meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255853/…
    – Shog9
    Commented May 26, 2016 at 16:26
  • 1
    By all means let's avoid distress and pain.
    – user663031
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 3:48
  • 10
    "Downvoting is an offensive act, and is distressing or painful for people who have invested some effort in a good-faith question or answer." - Yea, no. A downvote isn't nowhere near that serious. Not a reason not to downvote
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 6:26
  • 7
    "Maybe you think it's a bad question. The person who wrote the answer might not agree." - Not a reason not to downvote. There are plenty of people that answer any question they can, regardless of the question's quality.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 6:27
  • 2
    @Cerbrus: Yes it is. If there no consensus (or close to that) on whether the question is bad or not, it will certainly not be helped by people downvoting.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 7:12
  • 6
    Nor will it be helped by people upvoting. The point is that users can vote how they want to. None of the reasons you mention in your answer are good reasons not to downvote. In my very personal opinion, there's not even close to enough downvoting on SO in general. Users are way too hesitant to downvote low quality content.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 7:44
  • 5
    Frankly, your voting statistics tell the whole story: Votes Cast: 1775. 1720 up / 55 down. Downvote more. There's plenty of junk on SO that needs to be downvoted. Way more than 55, at least. For comparison, here's my votes: Votes Cast 4248. 895 up / 3353 down.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 7:47
  • 1
    @Cerbrus Excellent point. Statistics are the best thing to use because they tell the whole story without any bias, the pure truth. So we take from your voting statistics that SO is 79% junk. And if we use your up-to-date voting statistics 1034/4806 then it jumps to 82% (3% increase in 10 months). On the home page it says world’s largest developer community, they should change it to world’s largest developer junk. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 18:58
-15

Just because an answer isn't useful to others googling it, it doesn't mean it wasn't helpful to that individual.

Yes, it would be more ideal that questions were generalized, and less-specific, so they can be applied to, and help a larger population of visitors, but that is not always the case. Sometimes you might have a very specific question and need help with it, and it's nice to have a community you can come to, where someone is willing to help you, regardless of reputation benefits.

Remember the old saying, help without the thought of reward. Stack Overflow is one of the best communities out there, because you actually get answers. That gives people an incentive to come back and untimely drive traffic to the site. So let's not hate on people adding to the community.

Hopefully this Java noob will remember the help he got here, and come back. Maybe he'll ask some more noob questions, but eventually he'll gain experience, and start asking better questions. And then one day, he'll come answer questions for other noobs, and you know why? Because he remembers when he was a noob, and wants to pay it forward for when he got help.

8
  • 29
    SO has worked to differentiate itself from other sites by explicitly not being a site that strives to answer just one person's question, rather to answer that question for the entire programming community.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:52
  • 26
    -1, Being useful to others is pretty much the entire stated goal of SO.
    – nobody
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:58
  • 5
    Where on SO does it say that? I checked stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic and stackoverflow.com/help/dont-ask. Neither say this. Actually, it even says on things that can be asked "a specific programming problem". I'm not disagreeing general questions are not better and more helpful to the community, but i don't think my viewpoint here validates a bunch of downvotes. Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:10
  • 9
    @Andrew Medico - his answer was useful to someone apparently. So why would people downvote his answer, if he was trying to help someone. That's just dumb. Down vote the question. Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:12
  • 4
    Post on SO's goal: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/254770/… Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:25
  • I think he says it perfectly. Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:26
  • 8
    I think it's important to realize that as highly as we regard our own judgement, we can't always tell what question will be useful and what question will be useless. As I see it, most of my best answers are to questions that nobody reads; my most-read answers are to simple questions that, in some cases, were poorly written and researched. As it turns out, those questions were useful precisely because they were bad! They were the kind of bad question that lots of people tend to ask when they don't know any better. Now, those people find a SO page and learn how to ask better questions.
    – senderle
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 17:59
  • "Useful" and "helpful" are different.
    – user663031
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 3:49
-18

There can be some rules/guidance to that question in the official SO help - voting down. Here are excerpts:

When should I vote down? Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect.

So we clearly don't vote down based on the quality of the question, but only based on the quality of the answer. Especially when the answer is clearly sloppy perhaps just to earn reputation without really putting efforts to provide something useful.

What are the alternatives to down-voting? The up-vote privilege comes first because that's what you should focus on: pushing great content to the top. Down-voting should be reserved for extreme cases. It's not meant as a substitute for communication and editing.

Did you read that? Please read it again, maybe 10 times. Do you understand it now? No, then read 10 more times. Down-voting should be reserved for extreme cases. Don't downvote because you don't like the answer or think is incorrect or not useful (except when it is intentionally as such, as stated in the previous point), instead leave a comment for the answerer to enhance their answer and learn. All readers may also benefit from your comment if it is useful, but nobody benefits from a downvote because it carries no meaning, just an attitude.

Obviously, nobody forces you to leave a comment, so if you don't want to or don't have time for it, then don't. Somebody else might.

If something is wrong, please leave a comment or edit the post to correct it.

Again, this emphasizes the previous point. SO encourages constructive comments and communication over downvoting, which is discouraged except on questions.

Having said all of that, we cannot control how others behave. Some will insist of refusing to follow the official SO guidance and not interested in listening to different views.

I'd say if SO stands on that side, then they should update the help page and state clearly that answers to bad questions should be downvoted. And that negative communication is very much discouraged and shouldn't be used instead of or with downvotes.

If SO however stands on this side, then the tooltip on the downvote button is confusing and can be interpreted differently. So I propose that when you click on the button, a confirmation box pops up and briefly explain when it should be used and link to the Voting Down page. Some people will read and follow, others will just ignore and hit YES. We cannot do more than that, but we managed to educate some.

Now before some smarty jumps and say SO is community driven and the community decides. I don't believe so, and SO controls many aspects of the site and how it should be used. But fine, in that case and if SO wants to stay out of this one, then the Voting Down page should be updated to reflect that. Something like "you can vote in anyway you like" or "vote according to the community consensus". In this case, I propose creating a page somewhere to keep all the rules agreed upon by the community, because nobody has the time to search and read hundreds of pages just to figure out what the consensus is on any given matter. Point with no consensus can be marked as such.

18
  • 4
    Down-voting should be reserved for extreme cases Yes, but first we have to define extreme case. You also want people to follow guidelines, but then you get fixated on only single one. Before anyone can down vote, someone had to post something, Q or A. What about their breaking the guidelines about posting well formed on-topic questions and answering rules that state not all questions deserve to be answered?
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 8:17
  • 1
    Just for the record, I think answers should be voted on by their own merits, but to a point you have to include what kind of question answer is answering into your judgement. You can have great answers posted to not so great questions. They don't deserve to be down voted. However, answers to blatantly off-topic questions no matter how great they are, cannot escape the fact they are answering something that should not be answered in the first place.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 9:13
  • 1
    @DalijaPrasnikar There is a clear conflict between your two comments. First you talk about breaking the answering guidelines then you say the answers should be voted on by their own merits. Well, pick your side, you cannot have it all. I agree with both points, but just because somebody broke rules, doesn't mean you break rules too. If you see somebody stealing bread, you don't shoot them in the head, do you? They answered a bad question and you don't agree to that, then don't vote it up. You're not breaking any rule and still not rewarding them. We can all easily agree on this. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 12:12
  • @DalijaPrasnikar Another conflict between your two comments is that you wondered about the definition of extreme cases (It is already defined in the first point When should I vote down?), and then you talk about answers to blatantly off-topic questions. Perhaps you can propose that SO should add that to the list of extreme cases, but currently it is not listed there, so like I said, we don't break rules when punishing rules breakers. Don't upvote them. Also I propose that when a question is closed, all answers lose their earned points until the question is reopened. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 12:23
  • There is no conflict. Answer should be valued on its own merit, but like I said answer is also inevitably connected to the question. You cannot completely separate the two, I think I explained situations where answers should be judged along with the question. Another example, someone posts greatest answer of them all, but to totally unrelated question. Should you judge that answer completely on its own merits or should answer, actually be related to the question?
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 12:27
  • @DalijaPrasnikar You're clearly confused between concepts. There is no such a thing as "a great answer that doesn't answer the question". If it doesn't answer the question then it is a bad answer, period. You can go and post it in a blog and it will probably be the greatest blog, but for that question it is a bad answer, end of story. And for that, you're still judging it by its own merits, you vote it down according to the last point under When should I vote down? an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect. I already responded to your other situations, so I won't repeat. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 12:41
  • 6
    When we should down vote: Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect I down vote sloppy, no effort answers, answers to blatantly off topic questions, bad answers with dubious coding practice, answers that just repeat previously stated answers posted significantly later than originals... all in line with above guideline... those are all extreme cases that deserve down vote.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 12:45
  • @DalijaPrasnikar Absolutely, I fully agree. By doing so, you are perfectly following the rules, not breaking them. And you can downvote those answers regardless of the quality of question, even if the question is great. That was the entire point in my answer above. Follow the rules, they are there for a reason. If we don't agree with some rules, we should discuss changing them, not break them as we please. That's a key difference between good societies (they follow the rules) and bad ones (they break the rules and live in chaos). And people run away from bad societies to good ones. Commented Jul 5, 2017 at 12:59
  • The line in the reason to downvote: "or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect." is exactly what we are discussing. Is it dangerous to answer a bad question? Will it encourage more off-topic questions from the same user? There are yea and nay arguments above, but for the people in the camp of "Bad questions should not be answered," if that argument is correct, are thereby justified by the "When should I vote down" guidelines.
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:01
  • @DavyM Please re-read the sentence carefully. It didn't say "dangerous answer", it said "dangerously incorrect". I don't know if English is your first language, so please forgive my clarification, but "dangerously incorrect" means that the answer must be "incorrect" first and foremost before we evaluate whether that incorrectness is "dangerous" or not. It has nothing to do with the question. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:07
  • @RacilHilan The reason for my comment was to point out that you hadn't considered that interpretation of a "dangerously incorrect." If it is incorrect to answer a bad question, then the answer is dangerously incorrect for the reasons argued above; as the effects may be adverse. Answering an off-topic question tells the asker that their question was acceptable, which is incorrect, and it is dangerous that that asker might, when faced with a similar issue, come back and ask an equally off-topic question.
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:15
  • Now, the basis for saying that the answer is "dangerously incorrect" is the idea that answering an off topic question is incorrect to begin with. This has been discussed above, with people arguing if it's possible to give a good answer to a bad question, etc. If you believe that it is incorrect, then the dangerously incorrect part applies, and downvoting is justified. If you believe that it is correct to help people who post even if it's an off topic question, then it is not dangerously incorrect and the downvoting reason does not apply. That's why I wanted to point out the alt interpretation.
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:18
  • @DavyM I see, I got what you meant now, and yes, if we consider "incorrect" to mean that, then the "dangerously" applies as you said. However, we don't interpret the language as we please otherwise we can interpret whatever we want. "Incorrect" answer is "incorrect" answer, period. Answering a bad question does not make the answer "incorrect". I understand what you said about the argument in this thread, but I clearly don't agree with it. You are free to do whatever you want with bad questions, but we need to evaluate their answers separately based on their own merits. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:24
  • 2
    @DavyM I see. Well, in that case please read my answer again carefully, because your wrong: we're not "almost on the same page now", we're completely on the same page now :). I completely agree with your last comment and that was the entire point of my answer :). All what my answer was trying to say is: "We should not violate the rules. We can debate them, change them, and follow the new rules" :). So yeah, although I personally don't agree with the idea, if that became an official rule, then I will follow it. The rule must list what questions are considered bad. e.g. dups, no efforts, etc. Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 6:48
  • 1
    I don't have a time machine, but this answer clearly does not reflect the current state of the help page. (Editing would be inappropriate, as the argument is predicated on the help page saying what is claimed.) Commented Sep 26, 2023 at 8:01

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .