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A long overdue update to our last prototype announcement, our developers are pleased to announce that they've finished the review process and responsive design updates to the Wizard and it is now in testing.

First, some screenshots!!!

Question Wizard Problem Selection Screenshot


Question Wizard Tag Selection Screenshot


Question Wizard Guided Asking Screenshot

What does this mean for most of you?

For most people reading this, probably nothing. If you arrive to the site incognito and create a new account, you have approximately a 50/50 shot of seeing the new interface as you ask your first couple of questions, or perhaps first really great question, whichever happens to come first. We're going to be varying the criteria that sends folks 'off to see the wizard' during the experiment to determine what the optimal settings look like.

How long will this be in testing?

Quite some time. We can measure success and failure a number of different ways, ranging from how well questions 'land' after a few days of being asked, how fast they get answered, user interviews and even an uptick in abandoned questions might indicate healthy patterns as the wizard encourages you to think procedurally through your problem.

However, it's way more structured than what we have, which can be a daunting if not overwhelming empty text box to someone that doesn't really know what's supposed to go there, so we're going to have to work to separate improvements based on the introduction of structure alone from improvements coming from individual elements of the wizard itself, and that's going to take some time. It is, as I said, a rather large change.

Where should feedback go for this?

Here on Meta Stack Overflow is fine. Note that, as we iterate, circumstances are likely to be ephemeral so don't put too much time into things; a screen shot with a short paragraph or some free-hand circles is really helpful and (hopefully) won't result in grief if your feedback is just quickly culled with lots of other stuff because a change obviated it.

What else do you need users to do?

Nothing. Hopefully, enjoy a larger bounty of questions that are more representative of what folks are capable of writing if you give them some structure and guidelines. When you see folks propose improvements, remember that the needs they describe represent a perspective we really need to learn in order to help them more, so please see usefulness in their perspectives which show us how they're actually acclimating to what we build, not just how useful you might find their suggestions.

What's the criteria for the test group?

It's going to fluctuate. I can pretty confidently say that if you have enough rep to not see ads, you'll be extremely unlikely to see the wizard while it's in testing. It'll almost always be some combination of:

  • Account rep
  • Question history
  • Whether you've triggered a rolling rate limit

... and many other things. We'll probably start off with rep and work from there, but know it's bound to change. Someone can ask one question and hit the jackpot, get 300 rep out of it, then belly flop. While we're discussing this as one big experiment, it's probably going to be multiple experiments that run for 3 - 4 days each, some even concurrently.

We'll know fairly soon if we're going to graduate the experiment and will update this post at that time, then likely continue to run more experiments just to tweak the structure and interface.

I think the Earth is flat!

I think getting a spaceship and going up to check it out just so we can be, you know, sure is a great idea. But if you have a question or comment about anything in this post, please leave an answer below. If it looks like your feedback is turning into something that should probably become a new question altogether (or maybe an outright bug), we'll let you know in comments.

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  • 79
    What is behind the "I need a software/hardware recommendation" options? I'm hoping it's something letting them know we don't do that here. Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 14:49
  • 79
    @NicolBolas It is :) We capture intent that we want, just in other places, and redirect them to the appropriate resource.
    – user50049
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 14:51
  • 72
    @NicolBolas it's sounds like a trap. If you select it, you will get banned automatically before asking. Good way to avoid bad questions :p Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 14:56
  • 27
    @JamesWhiteley We're currently thinking you'll be able to toggle between the wizard and the current editing experience for all users, and new/low rep users will default to the wizard. It really depends on the outcome of the experiment(s).
    – Jon Chan StaffMod
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 15:01
  • 57
    "Only include software versions when absolutely necessary" I'm crying right now of happiness.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 15:01
  • 24
    BTW, you guys are already measuring the time the user spends typing the posts for spam reasons, but throw that value away. Maybe it's time that you start saving that value somewhere.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 15:09
  • 22
    It'd be nice if there'd be some sort of query string parameter or something that could be added to force the new wizard, just so people looking to test it can easily get to it.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 15:09
  • 9
    Can we expect any weirdness when seeing questions asked by people misusing this wizard? I remember previous ones had HTML comments that just got uncommented/mangled and included in the questions by some, are there comments/template content included now?
    – Erik A
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 15:14
  • 205
    I swear the title should always be the last thing you write. I've never had a title survive intact after writing out the actual question.
    – user1228
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 15:45
  • 9
    @Taplar maybe, but then the user can't complain 'but I didn't know'. We'll be able to tell them either 'you misclicked on the wizard, here is what you should have seen' or 'well you went against what the wizard said.... You only have yourself to blame'
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:42
  • 11
    @Taplar It still provides good guidance for people new to Stack Overflow who don't know better. By the time they've got used to the wizard and instinctively select the first option, they'll hopefully at least have an inkling that other sites exist. Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:46
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    @Taplar: "Sure, but how does that help us?" Because not all of them will do that. Some users are actively malicious and don't care about our site's rules. But other users are simply ignorant of them; presenting the rules before letting them ask the question at least gives them a chance of not breaking them. This tool cannot stop perfidious misuse of the site, but hopefully, it will stop ignorant misuse. And if that cuts things down by only 20%, I consider that a win. Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 17:11
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    @Will: I agree titles should be the last thing you write or at least the final edit. But it's important to get at least a draft title in early so that we can check for duplicates early. If you type in a tags and a title there's a step to see if search can find your question already asked. In addition, the final step (Review) gives you a chance to rephrase the title.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 20:38
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    @TinyGiant: If you pick "Other" you get a little blurb based on the on-topic page. In particular it suggests you might need "bit of source code". If you look at terrible questions, they are often vague requests based on a desire with no evidence they've tried anything. So yes I am hoping to have fewer of those questions.To encourage them from a new user seems like a good way to get more bad questions. Valuable questions are hard to write. But most people seem more concerned with utterly useless questions that this feature is designed to limit.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 20:51
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    Awesome! Glad to see this finally going in! Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 10:36

38 Answers 38

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I strongly suggest switching the top entry so I need help with a homework problem comes before I have a question about my code.

Here's why:

  • I have a question about my code
  • :
  • I need help with a homework problem — ↑↑↑ This belongs up there ↑↑↑

Homework seekers are one of the leading categories of problems this site sees — and unfortunately these users are often categorized as "lazy question" authors.

As such, these users are more likely to stop at the first thing that fits ("…question about my code"), and fail to see the entry they actually need at all.

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  • 66
    Definitely agreed, on the assumption that there is specific guidance for homework questions. (I was wondering actually what the flow difference is between these two.)
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 21:14
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    If not before, it should be close to the top, rather than the bottom.
    – Will
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 21:53
  • 26
    I thought we'd decided to stop singling out homework questions, because quality matters regardless of cause Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 17:57
  • 16
    My expectation would be that there's special advice for a how to write a homework question at this stage precisely so that it won't be singled out when it's posted, @LightnessRacesinOrbit. IOW, singling it out before anyone sees it so that it knows how to blend in when they do. I haven't tried the wizard, though, so I don't know for sure.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 18:10
  • 7
    @JoshCaswell I suppose if the context is homework then this might be able to stop it from looking different from any other question. Overall I'm a little concerned that the entire enterprise gives the false impression that this is a help site but I suppose it's worth it on balance, particularly since barely anyone's ever really understood that :) Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 18:11
  • 7
    This is a good suggestion, and something we'll consider in the next round. We're definitely on the same page about homework questions being a large area to address with the wizard. Without giving too much away, I think we can do even more to address homework questions in an upcoming experiment. Stay tuned...
    – Jon Chan StaffMod
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03
  • 6
    -1 because we don't want to encourage this. We'd much rather homework question askers find a more specific category. Heck, why is this even an option at all? It tells us nothing about the actual nature of the question. Questions that can't be put into another category aren't even going to be on topic.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 2:02
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    @jpmc26: Because homework requires some amount of guidance. If the user asks "How do I blah blah blah...?" and people respond with "Use the frobnicator on the sprocket," it's a Bad Thing when the asker comes back with "What's a frobnicator? Also, my teacher said not to use sprockets yet."
    – Kevin
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 3:03
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    @Kevin Those issues need to be addressed in the question body, not at the first pass filter. If that's supposed to trigger additional prompting or something, then it should come later, after they've categorized their question as basically on topic for the site.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 3:10
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    The homework question option should just be removed. There is no difference between a homework question and a non-homework question.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 16:34
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    We're going to be examining the possibility of categorizing questions as very likely to be dumps of an assignment (homework, or otherwise) and perhaps adjusting the flow accordingly, offering additional JIT guidance, or piping questions with high probabilities straight to review before they get a lot of visibility. I can't say much yet because it's all still crazy experimental, but we know that we can't count on people to properly identify what we will think of their question once posted. Stay tuned, a lot more about this next year.
    – user50049
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 17:06
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    It's possible to make "is this homework" a check box instead of an option. That way we get both the information whether it's a homework and the specific type of the question.
    – user202729
    Commented Dec 23, 2018 at 15:49
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    @TinyGiant There is a big difference, in two ways. For good homework questions, I'll try to answer with hints, pseudocode, explanations and nudges in a good direction (as opposed to a non-homework question, where I might focus more on code). I want to help the student, but still let them have the moment of self-discovery, and not remove their chance to practice. For bad homework questions, it is the highest chance bar none to get the "gimme teh codez" treatment, with the text copy-pasted from the task definition, in imperative voice, telling us what to do instead of asking us how to do it.
    – Amadan
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 5:31
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    @Amadan I personally hate typing my query into google, finding a question on Stack Overflow that matches my query, only to see an answer that doesn't actually provide the answer but rather some hints that the answerer hopes will lead me to the conclusion they intend me to reach. At best it is a waste of time, and at worst I can spend a lot of time misunderstanding your tips going in the wrong direction, when you could have just provided the solution up front. No there is no difference between a homework question and any other question, and if you're treating them differently, that is bad.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 3, 2019 at 0:25
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    @TinyGiant Math Stack Exchange is absolutely terrible for this. So frequently, I'm trying to recall or figure out the proof of some theorem, and I figure out intermediate steps 1-9 that I'm pretty sure are on the right track, but can't quite figure out how to get from there to the final result. I Google, find a Math SE question, and it's answered... by someone who lays out steps 1-9, that were already obvious to me, and then says "You should be able to figure out the rest yourself". I frequently want to throttle such answerers. I agree it's definitely not a model for us to import.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jan 9, 2019 at 13:32
171

Just to put Will's comment into a formal answer, the title should come after writing out the substance of the question. It helps them focus more on what they've written rather than what they may have originally thought their question was about.

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    +1 Half the time if I was following this wizard I'd have to take a step back to edit the title (if that's even possible). Titles are summaries of what our question is about, therefore I should be asked to write my question then asked to summarise what I've already written into a pithy title. Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 17:47
  • 49
    I disagree. Whenever google search fails me, I start writing up a question, starting with the title. The majority of the time, I end up finding what I was looking for in the list of questions with similar titles. If the title were put at the end, Stack Overflow's best search feature would be hidden until the asker has already spent (and potentially wasted) effort writing up a full question body. Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 17:54
  • 41
    How about before and after the body. Why should the title be there only once?
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 18:20
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    I agree with this for the purpose of the title, however it does have use in its current placement in the wizard. After putting up the title, a page appears with questions with similar titles to help users investigate for duplicates. I can't think of a good way to show that their question might have been asked before without having them put the title first. At the end of the wizard, a second chance is given to improve the title, so I think that this change wouldn't be of benefit.
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 18:22
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    Here's what it looks like after you finish the question body; the opportunity to review the question is given, with room to edit your title. Image
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 20:13
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    I think asking folks to revise their title after they're finished with the body is a good idea. The problem with leaving the title until last right now is that there's no interstitial for folks when the wizard is active - so the ~25% of folks who currently find their answers without ever composing a body because they didn't think to search first would be stuck writing a whole question before we tell 'em "oh hey, your question was already answered five years ago"... That's not good for anyone.
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 2:34
  • 1
    I always write the title last. Then again, my titles tend to be a bit s**t. Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 17:57
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    We did think about this, and this is why we had final the "Review" step so revisions could be made (as they often do) while also catching possible dupes up front in the "Title" step. Both parts are important. My current thinking is that we can improve both parts here, but moving the "Title" step around may or may not be the answer - I want to test it and see where the data takes us in subsequent experiments.
    – Jon Chan StaffMod
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 0:59
  • Yeah I think it would be a good idea to have users write the title at the beginning, and then have them revisit once more at the end for one final proofreading before submission. "Does this title look good to you?"
    – cs95
    Commented Dec 23, 2018 at 12:37
  • @Shog9 - What percent of users edit their title during the review process?
    – Travis J
    Commented Dec 26, 2018 at 20:03
  • @Braiam If it's not well-described, then showing the title twice could confuse users. "I already wrote a title, why am I having to write it again? Is there a problem with it?" etc.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 19:44
  • I feel like after writing the title and given an opportunity to write the question, the title box should stay at the top and the body should be appended below it, giving the OP the opportunity to edit the title as they go. I often find the answer to my question as I do this (I tend to jump back and forth from question to title) 95% of the time I find the answer before finishing my question.
    – Philippe
    Commented Jan 3, 2019 at 0:17
  • @Shog9 "so the ~25% of folks who currently find their answers without ever composing a body because they didn't think to search first" - could actually learn to use the search engine next time before wasting time? dunno if that's really that bad.
    – DonQuiKong
    Commented Jan 9, 2019 at 14:47
  • Yeah, that's... Not the outcome I would predict, @DonQuiKong. Ever been to a city with no public restrooms?
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 9, 2019 at 15:00
97

Somehow, this has gotten worse than it was the last time it was trialled. In its current state, a user who wants to ask a "how to" question without showing an attempt has to either explicitly violate the instructions in the wizard or give up and go away. That's a disaster.

For those who haven't seen the wizard, let's talk through it. We start at this topic selector...

Screenshot of "what type of question do you have" page

The second, third, and fourth options are all honeypots that direct the user to other sites. That leaves the following three options:

I have a question about my code

Probably not applicable to somebody asking a "how to" or conceptual question.

I need help with a homework problem

Probably not applicable to somebody asking a "how to" or conceptual question.

Other

Alright, that's applicable, but wait - the next screen says this:

Got it. We’ll help you determine if Stack Overflow is the right place for your question. If your question: Includes a bit of source code, and Concerns a specific coding issue, algorithm, or software tool, and Isn’t opinion-based, ...then continue asking your question. If your question doesn’t meet this criteria, don’t worry! We’ll help you find a better place to post your question.

This screen pretty clearly tells the user that if their question doesn't "Include a bit of source code", then they should not "Continue asking" their question.

This is just plain wrong. Out of the top 50 questions we've got by votes, excluding ones that are closed or locked for being off topic, there are:

In other words, our very best questions, as judged by the community, tend towards not including code. Yet these are the questions that this UI purports to ban.

And it doesn't end there. When we advance to the actual question text editor, we're presented with this:

Screenshot of "Guided Mode"

There's no escape hatch to opt out of "Guided Mode". It's presented as if the site demands that you provide all the details demanded here.

Yet the last three sections don't apply to somebody asking a how-to or conceptual question. Describing what you've tried and showing your code is usually undesirable for a how-to question (since it turns it into two questions in one - the original how-to question and an implicit request to debug the failed attempt), and nonsensical for a conceptual question. Describing expected and actual results is likewise meaningless without exhibiting some broken code, which is something that we don't want to universally encourage users to include in their question. Requesting expected and actual results makes sense for debugging questions and for bug reports (the latter of which are off-topic), but not in most other contexts.

The clincher is that the advice the wizard gives isn't even good advice for debugging questions. Prior to reaching the text editor, a user asking such a question sees the "I have a question about my code" option (which makes no mention of the concept of an MCVE) and then, after clicking it, sees this screen:

"Great!" screen which contains for text including "Make sure to have your code handy"

... which asks them to "Make sure to have your code handy".

This is bad guidance. Users asking debugging questions aren't meant to just dump their broken code into a question and ask for it to be fixed; they're meant to provide an MCVE, which may ultimately be profoundly different to the (perhaps hundreds of lines of) code they started with.

(I also find the tone of this page patronising to the point of insult, but I will resist the urge to comment on that at length; it's a secondary problem, here.)

Once they reach the editor, it's again implied that they should copy and paste code from the project they're working on into their question:

Screenshot of the "show your code" section of the editor

Credit where it's due: "Include just enough code so that others can reproduce the problem" is actually great advice, and perhaps the best single-sentence summary I've ever seen of what it means to reduce code down to an MCVE. But the good work is poisoned immediately by the advice to just copy and paste some line range from a code file in a real project. I've never crafted a question that way, and I imagine it is spectacularly rare that doing so is the best, clearest way to craft a debugging question; there will almost always be a way to tweak a real-world example to be shorter or easier to understand before posting it. So why are we recommending that users just copy and paste from their project?

There is exactly one type of question that can be posted while complying with the requests of the wizard, and that's a mediocre debugging question with a block of broken code copied and pasted from the project you're working on. Such questions are... not the worst thing in the world. They're potentially on-topic. There's plenty of worse types of questions that get asked every day. But they're typically poor quality and unhelpful to future users.

Will the wizard, as written, help improve the percentage of questions that are technically not closeworthy? Sure, perhaps it will - by guiding people asking crap, unanswerable debugging questions of no use to anybody else to instead ask... mediocre, answerable debugging questions that are still of no use to anybody else. It's unclear to me that that is, in itself, even a good thing. And it will come at the cost of driving away intelligent, conscientious users who might've provided useful content of lasting value to the internet, but cannot do so without disobeying the instructions that the site gives them when they try to ask. It's a filter that helps precisely the users we don't want to have around to survive on the site, while telling people we do want here that they're unwelcome.

And my fear is that the downsides are not going to be measured, nor their causes improved. Tim assures us that the feature is "in testing", and Jon Chan tells us that the ultimate form it ends up in will depend upon the outcome of those tests, but nobody is hinting at what outcomes are going to be measured, or what will be considered to be success, and there are alarming warning signs that the outcome you're trying to achieve is just a reduction in the proportion of questions that are absolutely, uncontroversially worthless, without regard for the impact on high-quality questions. That's a dangerous thing to optimise for. And the fact that we're still having to fight against the wizard wrongly telling users that we are a helpdesk that only accepts debugging questions - which Tiny Giant has been crusading against for over a year - is starting to make me lose hope for any meaningful change happening before this feature gets finalised.

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    Nice breakdown, but a random sampling of your "highest upvoted" questions showed me none newer than 2011 (or somewhere around that). The rules have been tightened since then, and at least some of those questions, when asked today, would be closed as "too broad". The Wizard seems primarily designed for newby askers with basic problems.
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 23, 2018 at 18:38
  • 2
    @usr2564301 Interesting point. I just threw together a SEDE query to find the 50 questions that have been most upvoted in the last year only: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/952269/…. I'd try the same analysis on them, but it looks like there's heavy overlap. Hmm. Perhaps I'll try to find the questions posted between 1-2 years ago that got the most upvotes in the last year...
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2018 at 18:47
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    @usr2564301 there are a lot of users voting to close questions that dont seem to know that how-to questions are on-topic, and that they dont require code or an attempt to solve the problem. This does not make those questions inherently too broad. The "lacks minimal understanding" close reason was removed due to its misuse in this regard. That's not to say that how-to questions are somehow immune to issues, but that they are just as likely to have issues as any other type of question, and the fact that they can have issues cannot be used as justification for closing how-to questions in general.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 23, 2018 at 19:16
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    @usr2564301 I tried the same analysis on the questions from 2017 that were most upvoted this year and found 19 that unambiguously included "some code", 11 ambiguous cases, and 20 cases that unambiguously included no code at all. That's doesn't support my case quite as strongly as the analysis included in the answer, but I think it's still sufficient to make any suggestion that askers must include code a bad idea.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2018 at 19:36
  • @MarkAmery Does the wizard require you to put anything in the 'show your code' section? I'm thinking of the existing posting guidelines we have that are often blatantly ignored if there is not validation forcing compliance.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 17:48
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    @TylerH no - it doesn't enforce that you provide any content in any of the four sections. You can even leave all of them blank and click through to the final review page with a blank question body.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 17:55
  • 4
    Partial disagreement: While you listed 20 good questions with zero code, they are all about basic concepts/operations and were asked very long ago. IMO it's highly unlikely that a new user would ask about that without searching first, therefore invalidating this point. (seems like this is the same as usr2564301's comment)
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 5:03
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    @iBug I disagree with your disagreement. The list at data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/952283/… shows several good codeless questions from 2017. The narrative that all the good conceptual questions have been asked and there's no room for new ones has long been around, but I view it with skepticism. If nothing else, the constant evolution of our field makes room for more such questions.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 12:22
  • 1
    I agree with you on almost everything here, and think it should be made top priority, however I would just like to point out that (in my experience, no actual data to back this up) the questions with no/very little code tend to be fewer, whilst there are many good questions with 50-500 upvotes that do include code.
    – Miriam
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 16:35
  • 2
    SO as a high quality repository is dead. Staff no longer thinks it's important, and they're dead set on keeping their minds that way. Anyone who argues the point vigorously is just going to end up suspended and then banned, even if their frustration at being completely ignored is completely justified.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 23:01
  • 4
    Are you perhaps posting after one Christmas beer too many, @jpmc26? The staff haven't ever used suspensions as a way of retaliating against merely "vigorous" critics - indeed, most of the staff were outright magnanimous in the face of an outpouring of community hostility when the "welcoming" era began. I see no reason to expect such suspensions. Nor do I think our vision of SO is dead. Yes, the staff are actively working against it, and I don't defend their choices, but the community still wields a lot of power - and I haven't given up hope on bringing the staff back to our side, either.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 23:20
  • 6
    I don't drink. =p They haven't been magnanimous. They've withdrawn and ignored and deflected as much as possible. I have never seen an interaction with them that resembled anything like actually attempting to process a user's arguments, even before the welcoming push. This is frustrating, and it's unsurprising if a number of quality advocates cross the line occasionally in the face of being stonewalled. Maybe not excusable, but understandable enough that the number of bans I've seen over it lately is disturbing. My conclusion is the result of years where they've never changed their minds.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 23:28
  • 8
    All you've really done is prove that "top 50 questions we've got by votes" is a horrible way of ranking quality. Git questions get lots of votes not because because they are shining examples of the best questions on the site, but because they have broad appeal -- people in just about any programming language based on textual source code may use it. But while broad appeal questions may have high visibility, they account for the tiniest fraction of all questions. What you should care about is questions where a high fraction of experts felt they were good and upvoted -- relative, not absolute.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 29, 2018 at 18:41
  • 1
    This triggered my curiosity and I looked at my most voted Q & A. From the top 5 in each category, 4Q are "How to" without code and 4A are the same. I 100% agree with this, lets not make SO just a debugging site. I believe that these type of questions are what cause burnout and boredom to usuals in the site, as its not equally fun to answer "how to" questions as to be debugging similar peices of code for other people. The former is way better. Commented Jan 9, 2019 at 11:54
  • 4
    @AnderBiguri Heh. You've triggered my curiosity now. I looked at my top 10 Qs and As. Zero debugging questions in either category, although 6/10 of my questions at least contained a code block with code in it, while 5/10 of the questions to which I posted my top answers did. That's 9 out of 20 of my best posts that this wizard says are not allowed to exist, purely thanks to the question failing the requirement to show code. (And more still would've failed due to not being able to "tell us what you've already tried" or "Describe expected and actual results".)
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jan 9, 2019 at 12:11
74

I'm writing some code, and this piece of software that I'm using is broken. Let me ask a question on Stack Overflow! Alright, the first page is asking me what type of question I have. Well, it's a problem with the software I'm using to do my coding, so I guess it's "a software or hardware issue."

redirect to Super User

Now, my question is about programming-related software, so it should go on Stack Overflow. However, I'm being told to put it on Super User. I understand the value in keeping the sentence "I need help with a software or hardware issue" short, so perhaps the Super User redirect page should clarify that Stack Overflow is still where programming-related software questions should go?


Under Show me other options:

Software Recommendations

For software and hardware recommendations

I'm pretty sure softwarerecs isn't for hardware recommendations.


I really like the guidelines given when you select . What other tags have that? Are there plans to add guidelines for other tags?

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  • 11
    Indeed, hardware recommendations should go on hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 17:06
  • 14
    Maybe something like "I need help using software such as MS Word or Chrome" could help to overcome ambiguity.
    – MonkeyZeus
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 18:25
  • 7
    "Now, my question is about programming-related software, so it should go on Stack Overflow. However, I'm being told to put it on Super User." Actually, a lot of the community will have you know that it should, indeed, be put on Super User. Which is about as insane as it sounds.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 19:15
  • 5
    How about instead of "I need help with a software or hardware issue", we instead use "I need help using existing software or hardware that isn't used for programming."? This makes it much less ambiguous, and clarifies that it does not relate to programming. Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 1:44
  • 1
    @CallumWatkins Way less ambiguous, but too wordy for what the screen is trying to accomplish. The more text that you put in there, the more likely people are to ignore it. Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 2:11
  • 1
    How about providing all these options? (a)a specific programming problem, or (b)a software algorithm, or (c)software tools commonly used by programmers as specified in Help/On-Topic
    – Mat J
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 5:36
  • 3
    @TheGuywithTheHat Yes I agree. What if after the current choice is selected, it asks the user if their question relates to developer software? That way the choice is short but can be narrowed down afterwards. Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 10:46
  • 1
    Another option here could be to add a option along the lines of "I'm having a problem with a programming tool" and then to leave the other one just vague enough to exclude those.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 2:17
  • 1
    @BoltClock: Most questions about software commonly used by programmers should indeed go on Super User. Only questions which are unique to software development come here. Programmers commonly use web browsers, word processors, e-mail, presentation software, etc in exactly the same fashion as other knowledge workers, and any question that could be asked by a database administrator, accountant, or veterinarian is off-topic here, even if it involves some piece of software beloved by programmers.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 17:46
  • 1
    @Ben Voigt: The quote I was addressing specifically says "my question is about programming-related software", and I was referring to the fact that the community is very picky with questions even about IDEs and developer tools where there isn't a real need to and it only creates unnecessary fragmentation.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 17:48
  • 1
    @BoltClock: Yeah, and there's still a big gap between "question about programming-related software" (maybe on-topic, probably not) and "programming-related question about software" (on-topic)
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 17:50
  • @CallumWatkins I think there are many borderline questions that this could not work for - 'How do I make Notepad++ always launch as administrator, Windows 7?'
    – Miriam
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 16:15
  • 1
    @ArtemisFowl Again I agree, I’m not certain of the best way to handle all the edge cases, but as long as there is information provided near the question that shows a comparison of what each stack community expects, the number of mistaken incorrectly placed posts should be reduced. There will always be some questions that slip through the net, and the moderation process is very good at fixing these. Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 16:20
  • 1
    @ArtemisFowl That's a Super User question as it's not using Notepad++, but just starting it. Now if it is asking to do that by writing some automation script, or how to do so programmatically, then it'd be a good fit here.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 19:46
  • 3
    @ArtemisFowl: The on-topic criteria is "software commonly used by programmers AND a practical problem unique to software development". Both prongs are necessary, and the example horribly fails the second one.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 29, 2018 at 18:35
71

Could you publish a (temporary?) route where we can go if we want to try out this thing without having to create anonymous accounts and gamble with probabilities?

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  • 40
    Or permanent. Why should we be locked out, just have an option for "use the wizard"! Commented Dec 22, 2018 at 6:31
  • 7
    @AnttiHaapala Giving users the option to jump between two test groups defeats the purpose of A/B testing.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 17:45
  • 4
    @TylerH I am not talking about the "test group". I am talking about how difficult it is to see how it actually functions and propose feedback. There is not much point in testing 2 bad options against each other, the results can be very arbitrary. Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 18:43
  • 3
    Does this route work? Edit: No it doesn't work for me.
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 4:56
  • 2
    There are certainly situations in A/B testing where having the same test subject experience both scenarios is the ideal. Then you don't have to speculate about individual dfiierences. But of course, you need to take care to set up the experiment properly. Anyhow, I mainly intended for the wizard to be made available to users outside of any experiment. It would be extraordinary for a relatively new visitor to be aware that there is a choice if you don't specifically advertise it to them.
    – tripleee
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 9:40
  • 23
    I don't even want to post questions with this. I just want to use the UI and test it so I can give feedback on it, and know what everyone is talking about. +1
    – Miriam
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 16:23
61

Make sure that the wizard doesn't only cater to debugging questions.

As I understand, and a few other language-agnostic tags are still on-topic on Stack Overflow. These don't necessarily have a "language, technology and/or framework" associated with them. On-topic questions should have a straightforward path through the wizard from start to end.

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  • 14
    Yes; it needs something like "what algorithm or data structure is your question about". Forcing people to add a language tag and/or provide code won't necessarily improve all questions. Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 2:21
  • 3
    In fact, such questions tend to be language-agnostic, so maybe the wizard should explicitly ask what language the question is about, or whether it’s language agnostic. Commented Jan 15, 2019 at 13:49
38

Is there somewhere empirical, like SEDE or the API, that we laypeople can look at to see which questions have been created using the new wizard, or is that considered to be internal information?

Mostly because I'm curious to see what kinds of questions the wizard elicits.

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  • 6
    This is currently internal since releasing which questions were created with the wizard might muddle the experiment results. Determining the success of the experiment is partly based on the question grade work that we did, which is affected by actual activity on the question. That being said, I'd like us to be transparent about what the results were, and we'll consider releasing some of this data or at least do a public report later :)
    – Jon Chan StaffMod
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 1:11
  • 3
    @JonChan When it goes live, will this be a metric/flag we can filter by in SEDE, at least for questions asked from that point on?
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 17:43
37

I'm all for it being out in the wild for testing. The team has managed to implement a whole lot of the features from the original announcement's answers.

From what I've looked at so far, here are my reactions:

Type:

Great way to start weeding out the questions that belong on other sites. It's clear, and it isn't overly biased towards debugging questions.

Tags:

The example of how to think about what your question is about is good. Hopefully won't get people typing the full "My question is about java" into the tags box though; perhaps if someone misunderstands and types the phrase as written, it can be stripped off the front of their potential tags?

My question is about java; every word appears as a tag.

Description:

Thank you for giving an example that is more of a How To and less of a debugging question. In the Background section, I think it would help to include the word research, to help drive home the point that users are expected to actually do research, not just explain where they got stuck and stopped trying. "Provide background and share the research you've done to answer your question already, including what you have already tried." I say this because if someone wants to dump their homework question, "Sally wants to get the names of all people who meet x conditions between 3 tables," a person can say that's the background and share a half hearted attempt without ever researching their issue, and seeing as how many current questions are poor due to lack of research, I think we should err on the side of bludgeoning people over the head with the Do More Research mantra.

In the Show Your Code section, does it come up with a guide box that explains what an MCVE is? If not, I highly recommend that gets explained at least briefly, with a link to the full MCVE page.


Overall it's looking really good. I hope it has some of the effect we're looking for. One last thing: how do we plan on measuring the efficacy of the wizard?

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  • 26
    it might be a bit of an extreme solution, but in this case the tag select widget could be changed in a way that never allows to enter any non-existing tags as the target user don't have the rep to create new ones anyway. This could look like 5 separate fields with autocomplete or something different altogether. Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 17:22
  • 6
    Separate fields sounds like a great way to stop input of natural language sentences into the tags.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 17:47
  • 1
    This sounds like an issue to some extent and I feel that it could cause confusion.
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 4:54
34

Looks great!

One thing that I think would be really good is to allow users to also opt-in to using the wizard when they don't match the criteria (perhaps a "Use the wizard" button/link at the top when creating a new question).

This way people that prefer having a wizard to help them instead of a potentially-daunting blank text box can still use it :)

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33

Looking forward to the results and evolution of this!

The artist seems to be heavily inspired by M.C. Escher and/or Cubism? The upside-down bookmark seems a tad strange.

Highlights of odd points in the drawing of books from the Wizard's UI

<strike>Maybe I'm just visually parsing this wrong, but it looks like there's a book on the left side that has another book poking into it, and the bottom corners do not meet.</strike>

Kevin B points out below that I am indeed perceiving this incorrectly. It's a box, not books.

(Not saying this is a problem; I love Escher myself.)

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  • 13
    Handwriting with a mouse is hard.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 21:34
  • 13
    it's a gift box, the ribbon is ripped, the lid is on the left, sitting over the back left corner of the box. why there's a box like that on the ask a question wizard? :shrug:
    – Kevin B
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 22:12
  • 1
    Ah ha! Thanks @KevinB. It's the gift of answers, I guess? The lid and ribbon still don't read right to me, though.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 22:39
  • 46
    The box is drawn orthographic while the lid is drawn in perspective, it symbolizes the inherent imbalance in q&a training ai on parallel systems based on the teachers perspective vs the student body projected on an astral plane. It can also be viewed as a metaphor for how perspective is lost once you start studying your problem by opening it up for introspection
    – visibleman
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 4:38
  • 10
    :mind-blown: @visibleman!
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 5:48
  • 9
    @visibleman Also the internal inconsistencies inherent to many SO questions Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 17:59
  • 4
    Is there a reason you wrote visible strike tags rather than just making it an actual strikethrough?
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 23:53
  • 1
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit, I thought that was what I said? ;-) We're basically trying to close 2 dimensional question boxes by balancing a 3dimension answer lid on top of them.
    – visibleman
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 23:59
  • It's not a "4th dimension;" the corner of the box is inside the lid. The "bookmark" is a piece of tape attached to the box. The "multiple POV" is just the edge of the lid sitting on the table, although I admit that one had me baffled for a second, too. @KevinB It's not a gift box; it's a shipping package. (The writing at the bottom is probably an address.)
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 3:15
  • 2
    Putting a bow on the lid would go a long way toward making it an obvious gift-wrapped box.
    – bishop
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 4:44
  • @visibleman: Indeed! Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 11:38
  • 1
    @bishop It's not a gift wrapped box. It's a shipping package.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 22, 2018 at 18:56
  • I also have trouble seeing this as a gift box. Perhaps we could use some slightly less ambiguous art, you know, so as not to put new users off? (and just..because,..)
    – Miriam
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 16:20
31

What happens when a user clicks "I need a hardware recommendation"?

Hardware Recs is a tiny site with strict quality and on-topic guidelines. SO is a huge site. If everyone who picks that option gets sent straight to /questions/ask on HR (or even to /help/on-topic - let's be honest, only a small number of users will actually read that), it will completely overwhelm moderation capacity on HR.

The effect won't be quite so bad with this in beta, of course, but if/when it's deployed fully, that's something I don't want to happen.

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  • 5
    Goes to hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/help
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 2:27
  • Hmmm... not sure that's the best place for it, @Shog9. Could it go to hardwarerecs.meta.stackexchange.com/a/206/8 instead?
    – ArtOfCode
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 17:40
  • 4
    @ArtOfCode Compromise: it goes to help/on-topic and you make the banner linking to that meta answer AS BIG AS POSSIBLE (misusing bolded # to great effect!).
    – wizzwizz4
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 20:01
  • 8
    Are hardware recommendation questions really a common enough category of off-topic questions that they even deserve a special place in the wizard like this? Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 8:01
27

I have an existing request that I'd like to take this opportunity to highlight.

In my opinion, one of the best things a question can include when it is similar, but not identical, to an existing questions is a citation of that question (so that reviewers can see that the asker is already aware of the existing question) and an explanation of what is different in the new question.... So I think the "Ask a Question" wizard should probably encourage citing existing answers, rather than simply "reviewing" them to see whether there's an exact duplicate that removes the necessity of asking a new question in the first place.

There are many possible ways to address this, but I proposed two independent but not mutually exclusive changes for the "similar questions" page:

  • Add this text, or something similar: "If one of these questions is similar to yours but does not address your specific use case, please link to it in your question and explain why your question is different."
  • Add checkboxes for selecting similar questions, and auto-populate the question field with links to these questions.
22

Revamp the "type of question" options. From looking at it and some of the answers, I am assuming this prompt is a first pass filter to determine whether the question is even remotely on topic for Stack Overflow. In that light:

  • One of them is not like the others. Can you guess which one? It's the homework one. We don't have a homework.stackexchange.com and for good reason. This should not be an option on a first pass filter designed to check if the question is anywhere near on topic. If the homework option is still needed to trigger additional guidance, it should be separate from identifying whether the question is on topic. In its current position, it effectively bypasses the on-topic filter altogether.
  • Change "I have a question about my code" to "I have a question related to code." The current version sounds too much like the code already exists, which may not be entirely the case, and implies that the code necessarily belongs to the author.
  • What is a "software or hardware" issue? Is my code throwing an exception a software issue? I'm guessing this steers them toward SuperUser. Make this a little more specific. Maybe, "I'm having an issue with software I didn't write" and a separate options for hardware? I'm open to suggestions here.
5
  • 4
    Some of your rewording suggestions are good. The homework option, though, needs to stay. It leads to some additional reading about how to ask those type of questions. It is meant to avoid the dumping of homework exercises as question. Commented Dec 22, 2018 at 15:34
  • 2
    @CrisLuengo As I mentioned on another post, it would be better to move it elsewhere, rather than make it bypass the on-topic filter.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 22, 2018 at 18:54
  • 1
    I agree with @CrisLuengo about the homework option. I believe the 1st pass should be simple with 3/4 options and the homework option should be on the 2nd pass. Users will still ask homework questions and homework questions can be of good quality. Let's help them make them good quality Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 1:31
  • 3
    As for the "my code" fix, it should just be "I have a code related question". Not all questions are about your stuff and not all questions are about writing code. Commented Dec 24, 2018 at 1:44
  • @ChristopherRucinski I took your suggestion on the wording of code questions. I also made the option of making homework a separate trigger explicit.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Dec 26, 2018 at 4:01
18

This project is definitely making progress. The wizard is a terrific idea, and has strong potential for helping users. I really like the direction this is going. I really like that the tags can now be paired with the title to look for duplicates, I am legitimately excited to see that play out.

That said, I do have some feedback on the radio button list.

As far as the first bullet point, I think that perhaps the wording of "my code" could be changed to "some code" because it isn't always the OP's code which is being used in the question.

I think that the real estate in these bullet points is very valuable, and would suggest that it carefully used. A concurrent A/B test for different bullet points would be nice, however, that could also complicate the data so I understand not really wanting to do that.

Two bullet points stand out to me as not being worth the real estate value on the list: software and hardware recommendations.

Recommendation questions are not exactly a pressing issue. In my opinion, this is a solved problem. I don't think we will find much disagreement in the community about what to do with recommendation questions at Stack Overflow, and I don't have the numbers but I would assume they get closed pretty easily compared to other categories.

I suggest that we examine alternatives to these two bullet points which are more inline with the topicality of Stack Overflow. There is quite a lot of stick in this list, and it may make some sense to include a little more carrot.

  • I have a question about how to solve a problem with code.

  • I have a question about a coding concept.

These could then be paired with guidance from the how-to-ask page with regards to ensuring they are not too broad, are still topical to Stack Overflow and not another exchange, and are not too help vampire-y.

This would address, in my opinion, the overall topicality represented by Stack Overflow. That said, I also understand that the main reason this wizard is being put in place is to prevent low quality questions, and perhaps that just means we need the extra serving of stick and that carrot is just not needed here.

15

The UI is suuuuuuper buggy when entering the question's body of code and text into the editor. Entering stuff and then clicking away from the editor on the edges of the page makes the page scroll way up to the top-ish area of the page. Also, part of the text of the post during the editing phase shows up below the footer of the page and it looks really wonky.

3
  • I'd second this. I've just had a play around and when on the editor part of the wizard, clicking around does all sorts of weird and wonderful things. For example, I would expect that clicking on the "Summarize the problem" that looks like a placeholder text would then allow me to type, but it's acting as just a title and takes focus away. Very confusing.
    – DavidG
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 11:17
  • 3
    There was a bug report made previously that seems to be related and has been addressed. Try the wizard one more time and let me know if that's the case.
    – Jon Chan StaffMod
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 1:20
  • 2
    @JonChan Looks a lot better, though I would still expect that clicking on the individual text box headers would put the focus on the text box, and not just clear it completely.
    – DavidG
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 13:03
15

I originally posted this over on Stack Exchange and was suggested I post this here.

I'm looking to ask a question on Stack Overflow, and am getting a new guided mode format for asking the question. When I'm composing the body of the question, I don't see the formatting toolbar. This means I can't upload an image. I would upload an image of what I see in Guided Mode, but well...I can't upload an image. I understand I can use image links but image hosting websites are blocked from my work place.

Two questions:

  1. Is anyone else able to see the formatting toolbar in Stack Exchange's new Guided mode, and can you upload images?
  2. If the answer to 1 is no, ie it's not just me, is there any way to turn off Guided Mode, or otherwise be able to upload images like I was able to before Guided Mode?
12

I take issue with the following comment on the OP by @Jon Ericson♦:

If you pick "Other" you get a little blurb based on the on-topic page. In particular it suggests you might need "bit of source code". If you look at terrible questions, they are often vague requests based on a desire with no evidence they've tried anything. So yes I am hoping to have fewer of those questions.To encourage them from a new user seems like a good way to get more bad questions. Valuable questions are hard to write. But most people seem more concerned with utterly useless questions that this feature is designed to limit.

- https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/378057#comment657515_378057

If we break this comment down what it says is

If you look at terrible questions, they are often vague requests based on a desire with no evidence they've tried anything.

So we are being told that because there are "terrible questions" that are "vague requests based on a desire with no evidence they've tried anything". Which means that because some questions that Jon thinks are "terrible" are "vague requests" and they don't include an irrelevant attempt, all questions should be debugging questions, and any questions that don't include an irrelevant attempt should be discouraged.

Next we get (emphasis mine):

So yes I am hoping to have fewer of those questions.To encourage them from a new user seems like a good way to get more bad questions. ... But most people seem more concerned with utterly useless questions that this feature is designed to limit.

So this feature is "designed to limit" how-to style questions—arguably the most useful category of question asked—in favor of debugging style questions—arguably the most useless category of question asked.

This explains why my previous feedback on this matter has been completely ignored, and why the current implementation of the wizard still implies that how-to questions are off-topic; as well, it shows that the community's feedback doesn't mean very much to those implementing this project unless your opinion is inline with theirs.

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  • 3
    There is a missing premise here though. You surmise that this feature means to limit HOW TO questions and similar no code questions. However, you seem to exclude the fact that this only does so for users who are brand new to the site. This is not a change in topicality for Stack Overflow itself, it is a small barrier for new users. The numbers you cite are for the entire userbase, if they were limited to users who were only <50 reputation, what do you suppose they would look like at that point? I would wager much worse.
    – Travis J
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 21:26
  • @TravisJ no I'm surmising that the feature is designed to limit how-to style questions, as stated by Jon. The fact that this feature is designed to teach new users our topicality is the entire point.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 21:28
  • 1
    Sorry, but that is wrong. As stated, it is only for a subset of the userbase, namely users who are just starting or as outlined by the combined points above. You must also include the fact that the limit is scoped if you are to make that argument.
    – Travis J
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 21:32
  • @TravisJ you're denying that this is being shown to new users? What are you on about?
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:10
  • 2
    Are you trolling me? Hard to tell. To reiterate, it is incorrect for you to state that this feature is designed to broadly limit how-to style questions without including the caveat that the feature is only being applied to new users. Without mentioning that fact, and without including that fact in your numbers, it creates a false statement since it applies too broadly. The site topicality is not changing. How-to style questions are not broadly being limited, they are just not being encouraged (still not prevented in any way) for a subset of the userbase.
    – Travis J
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:25
  • 6
    The ideal solution here would be to take something like SoftwareRecs' guidelines and adapt them to Stack Overflow: teach folks to describe a problem, lay out their requirements, research... As a step-by-step process. HOWTO questions shouldn't be hard, and usually aren't - when they go south, folks tend to be their own worst enemies, forgetting that they have to communicate what they already know.
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:33
  • @TravisJ I'm using the words directly from the comment that I'm quoting. I didn't say "this feature is designed to broadly limit how-to style questions", I said "the feature is designed to limit how-to style questions, as stated by Jon". You included the word "broadly", and are arguing against the use of that word. As well to say "How-to style questions are not broadly being limited, they are just not being encouraged (still not prevented in any way)" is disingenuous because they are actively being discouraged by the interface, regardless of the portion of the userbase exposed.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:38
  • @TravisJ My point (reiterated) is that this is a tool to teach new users our topicality, and of all those who are exposed to this, all of them will be misled by it; and that the comment I'm quoting seems to say that this was designed into it.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:42
  • 1
    What suggestion do you have to improve the tool so that it does not mislead users?
    – Travis J
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:46
  • 2
    @TravisJ literally anything else. As I commented on the question above, an option for how-to questions that redirects to the normal ask question page would be the least they could do. Just anything that removes the implication that we only accept debugging questions.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 23:49
12

The prompts when writing a question don't appear stay after the question is finally posted. I just answered a question from a new contributor which appears to have been written using the wizard, however due to the prompts disappearing a few of the sentences seemed to lack context, for example, the actual results being pegged onto the end of the question:

Get the above with the number of entries previous to those on the current page.

This is clearly in response to the actual part of "Describe expected and actual results.", but that's not clear from only seeing the question and I had to check the wizard to see what the prompt actually was.

Additionally the sentence:

Looking through the code and removing/changing various functions to see if they make a difference.

This is clearly in response to the tell us what you've already tried of "Provide background and tell us what you've already tried." but again, there's no context to that in the question resulting in it feeling disjointed.Although I won't say my edits improved it much, just somewhat

Request: Can we either leave the prompts in or prompt users to lead into these points so that when the question is posted the points aren't missing context?


On a side note, from my single piece of exposure to this, it seems to work all right as the question was above average for new posters (from what I've seen).

1
11

Say "I'm setting up a new server, and want to support UTF-8 fully in my web application. Where do I need to set the encoding/charsets?"

I don't think this is an example of a good question.

I often encourage people to avoid general "how do I do this?" type questions, and to ask specific "I tried X, expected Y, but got Z instead" type questions instead.

Could we use a better question as the example of a good question?

Something like:

Say "I'm setting up a new server, and here is the config I'm currently using. I thought line ABC would enable UTF-8 support, but when I enter XYZ, I get this error. What am I misunderstanding?"

Obviously there is plenty of room for wordsmithing, but hopefully my point is clear.

6
  • 7
    How-to questions are not off-topic, and are generally much more useful to the community at large than another variation on the same useless debugging questions that will never help anyone else. Encouraging users asking how-to questions to instead ask debugging questions is a horrible idea that robs us of useful questions in favor of useless questions. The alternate question you suggest in your answer here would be vastly less useful than the existing question
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 16:24
  • 1
    @TinyGiant It's a spectrum. I'm talking more about the general "How do I build a website?" questions that are generally closed as too broad or opinion-based. The problem is that people with these types of questions can't distinguish between their question and a more specific how-to question. That's why I'd recommend using a more specific question as the example. Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 18:57
  • 5
    So you're conflating how-to questions with overly broad or opinion-based questions in general, and reasonably scoped how-to questions with debugging questions. And none of this changes the fact that your proposed alternate question would be vastly less useful than the existing question. In fact it would be a debugging question that would be reasonably likely to never help anyone other than the poster.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 19:32
  • 3
    @TinyGiant I'm going to agree to disagree with you here. My point is that encouraging general "how do I do this" type questions is A Bad Thing. If somebody asked the question in the example, it would almost certainly be closed as too broad. Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 20:34
  • 3
    My point is that discouraging useful how-to questions in favour of overly localized useless debugging questions is A Bad Thing. If the question in the example was closed as too broad that would be an erroneous closure and an abuse of the closure system.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 22:21
  • 2
    The problem with this example is that tries to keep the theme of the bad "bad example". If instead it focuses on programming problems "My java program is giving me an error" vs "How to pass a variable between functions, since using passVariable method throws me an error?" it would be much better.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 11:57
11

Add a option that says:

  • I need help debugging my code.

What it says could be changed, but if you select it you get this message:

Great!

Stack Overflow can help you with debugging problems, but make sure you ask with a [mcve] that is has the minimal code needed to reproduce this problem. Don’t paste in all of your code!

Got it! —>

Just please make it so people understand that you can’t just ask “why isn’t my code working?”. You may also want to link to the help center’s how to ask here. (but nobody will probably read that, so let’s not)

10

I've been a Stack Exchange member for six years, asked nine questions and answered 11 with positive reputation points all around, but for some reason I have just had my hand held on my first Stack Overflow question. I'm by no means a veteran, but I like to think by now I'm at least semi-capable of asking a question on Stack Overflow without being patronisingly forced to color-by-numbers.

I know it is fundamentally a great idea to cut noise from signal, and I know every "first" poster will say it "should apply to everyone but me!". But the experience was infuriating and degrading. Is it just me or are you legitimately not allowed to use any of the Markdown editor buttons?

I looked all over the interface and was just instructed on how to type it in manually. I did this, and the preview bar showed my images just fine, but then my actual question did not, because the spacing was actually incorrect.

1
  • 1
    I came to say the same thing. I've asked a few questions and understand the structure of a question. The lack of ability to easily format the questions as I go makes the wizard infuriating to use. I would also comment on the tone of the wizard, but sadly that fits in well with the "love but hate" for the site. It's a valuable resource, and instrumental in my learning to code, but I also dread having to post here because the whole site tends to want to make me feel bad for daring to bother someone with our question.
    – DJFriar
    Commented Feb 3, 2019 at 21:12
9

That's a really great idea - This definitely gives appreciated guidance to new users and raises the bar in terms of quality!

I also like the recommendation part already filtering out unsuitable questions.

On that matter - would it be useful to add a "I'd like my code to be reviewed"-trap as well since those sort of questions rather belong to Code Review as mentioned here and many other places?

I don't propose to migrate these questions or give a recommendation to use Code Review instead. Just a notice that these sort of questions are not suitable would be fine...

14
  • 8
    Relevant: Be careful when recommending Code Review to askers Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:20
  • 7
    But users at CodeReview do not want our questions. With good reason. That has been stablished repeatedly. Pushing inexperienced users their way is almost the same thing.
    – yivi
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:20
  • 2
    @yivi Please read carefully before assuming something - in none of my sentences I mentioned to migrate these questions or give a recommendation to use code review instead. Just a notice that these sort of questions are not suitable would be fine..
    – iLuvLogix
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:32
  • 1
    @TheGuywithTheHat Where do you read anything about a recommendation here?
    – iLuvLogix
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:34
  • 2
    @iLuvLogix In none of Yivi's sentences is there any mention of migration either, please read carefully before assuming something.
    – Davy M
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:36
  • 3
    @DavyM True that but 'pushing' is the result of either a recommendation or a migration - none of which I mentioned.. So why go down that route?
    – iLuvLogix
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:37
  • 1
    You may want to rephrase your answer so it is clear what output do you expect. Considering how it reads, that the link you provide is advising users to use CR for this kind of question, and how the shown traps work in wizards so far; it is not hard to make the assumption you want to recommend users that their question would be more suitable elsewhere. Specifically, at CR.
    – yivi
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:40
  • 1
    @yivi Hence the EDIT you might have read by now..
    – iLuvLogix
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:41
  • 3
    I think that this should be an option, even though I don't think it should point to codereview.se (for reasons already mentioned). Have it mention that SO is for specific questions with objectively verifiable answers, prompting them to either ask for a very specific improvement, rather than asking, "how can this be improved in general".
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 16:59
  • 2
    @Servy Thats exactly what I suggested in my answer - a notice..
    – iLuvLogix
    Commented Dec 19, 2018 at 17:01
  • Then consider a button "Please write me the code" as well. Its effect should be that the post instantly gets closed as "too broad".
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 16:31
  • 1
    @usr2564301 why allow it to be posted then?
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 12:01
  • @Braiam: I don't want to create a fake account and take my 50/50 chances. Does the wizard currently refuse questions to be posted? That would indeed be a useful feature!
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 25, 2018 at 13:20
  • 1
    @yivi Does Code Review want new questions or users? If yes, then this is good, because it routes people to the appropriate site before they ever post something. If a person comes to CR from Google and posts a low-quality question, I hope CR wouldn't blame SO for that, as it's not SO's fault. Likewise, if a user is redirected to CR by the wizard for wanting to have their code reviewed, then it's illogical for CR to blame SO for that as well, since it's not SO's fault. People should ask their questions on the appropriate site, and let's let those sites grow and deal with them once and for all.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 19:55
8

"Where should feedback go for this? Here on Meta Stack Overflow is fine."

Does that mean as an answer to this "question", or as an entirely new question? If the former, please be precise and specify that; if the latter, won't we just end up with dozens of "hey this thing is broken on the wizard, fix pls" questions on meta that will drown out everything else?

1
  • 1
    Use your best judgement. If someone in the test group encounters a bug, well, they should post a bug report. If someone encounters something that they feel isn't optimal then it might be worth a new question depending on how much discussion is anticipated, but we don't expect folks to know this in advance. So, let's leave it as use your best judgement, and we'll prod you to ask a separate question if it looks like an answer here needs a place of its own to be discussed?
    – user50049
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 13:46
8

And while we're at it, could you please remind new users to

  1. avoid making answerers iteratively debug/solve their problems, and
  2. if they have any follow ups, to accept the best answer to their current problem, and open a new one?

A good number of users glaze over the tour or just skip it entirely. Having these points repeated here as a footnote of sorts where it cannot be ignored would really make a difference, IMO.

If you could fit in the link to the /someone-answers link in here as well, that could hopefully reduce the number of users who ghost/abandon their question as soon as they've received an answer (simply because they are not aware that there are things they could/should do when someone answers).

6

A quick Ctrl+F, didn't find anything mentioned about this, but in the tags page, I think it would be useful to add another red X about tagging IDEs when problems about the code itself are less often related to the tools people are using.

For example, and are often tagged together, when in fact, the problems might actually be with , but people probably just don't know, which is fine. I think it makes less signal-to-noise for those that would be following true issues related to the IDE (which probably could even be issues instead here) rather than just tagging essentially what acts as the text-editor of choice for questions truly about the code.


Tangentially related, there are tags that might make sense together, like and . However, I find one a specific question about Hadoop (code, framework, tool, etc). But, then if someone has "a large" 1GB file; in modern-computing that is really not , yet someone might seem perplexed how to process this "such large file", so they add ... Is it somehow possible to "flag" buzzword-y tags?

3
  • This is certainly possible, but there are so many tags and combinations of tags that having a case for each of these would likely be way to costly, resource/time-wise, to be worthwhile.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jan 6, 2019 at 6:47
  • @TylerH I understand that for the hadoop use case mentioned. For IDE's though, there is a limited number of these for any given language. Maybe for bigdata, could be a prompt "how much data do you have"? IDK, just an idea ;) Commented Jan 7, 2019 at 2:48
  • 2
    I mean there would have to be unique prompts and 'detection algorithms' written for each type of case. OK, so we have some for the bigdata tag. Why not also for X tag or Y tag? Maybe they could decide on an arbitrary threshold, e.g. just have some sanity checks on questions tagged with the top 10 or top 25 tags... but all tags? I doubt it's ever gonna happen.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jan 7, 2019 at 14:28
5

The usability of the wizard is extremely poor at the moment. The screen kept jumping randomly to various parts of the form, making it very hard to comprehend the underlying workflow. It took me 10 mins to enter a question which would have taken 1 min using the old UI.

1
  • 2
    Hello, thanks for posting! Can you give us some details about your browser / resolution so we can have a look at it? Also, is this the UI itself being jittery, or just the tab index not working as expected between fields?
    – user50049
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 14:45
5

1.

In the "show your code" section, I am prompted to indent my code by 4 spaces.

OK fair game, so I went on and tried to click at the beginning of each line before hitting Space 4 times.

But it turned out to be annoying:

Whenever I clicked into the yellow area (left margin), the whole input box flashes yellow and didn't work as expected (move cursor to beginning of line).

I also don't see any intuitive prompt or tool to help me indent my code.

Can this be improved?

2.

When I went back and want to take a few more screenshots, I found I couldn't summon the wizard again, even if I go to /questions/ask/wizard directly.

Shouldn't this be allowed to opt-in?

1
  • 1
    "2. ..." hey, how did you get that URL to work then?
    – Jongware
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 15:03
2

Nice! I could see myself and other non-noobie users of this site using this. It makes posting questions seem more fun. Try to make sure that the wizard could be used for experienced users as well. This might include these changes for users not classified as "new contributor":

  • Removing some strictness. (more free to do stuff)
  • Removing "common new user mistake checks"
  • The experience changed depending on the user's tag likings and privileges.
  • Customizing the Wizard in settings? (This would be great)

Just have the wizard be part of the site for everyone, not just new users.

4
  • The plan is to allow users to switch between the wizard and the "veteran" editor once this is finally polished up and shipped. New users will be strongly encouraged to use it, but will have the option of switching to the unguided interface after (probably) their first question, we'll have to work it out. And if there are customizables that need persistence, we're certainly open to adding a place in preferences for it. We have to see how it settles.
    – user50049
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 13:49
  • @TimPost Okay, thanks! I can’t wait for this to come out, even though I may never use it. It just looks nice, I guess.
    – Eb946207
    Commented Dec 20, 2018 at 15:05
  • Maybe something like "I have a problem with my computer and I need to fix it?"
    – tripleee
    Commented Dec 21, 2018 at 9:47
  • @TimPost I would strongly recommend a series/combination of metrics for that like my bulleted list here.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 20:00
0

When I edit and/or answer other people's questions, my biggest bugbear is people who post their code, but don't turn it into a workable code snippet (at least for HTML, CSS, and JavaScript questions).

Could you prompt people to create a working snippet if the language they are asking about is supported by the snippet functionality?

(Sorry if this has already been suggested.)

3
  • 4
    That seems a reasonable tweak if the question has one of those tags. Probably there are enough questions that it would be worth the time to develop a branching path. I'm curious if it might not be worthwhile to let the community create optional, custom snippets of advice for various tags as a sort of mashup between the current tag warning hack and tag wikis.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Dec 31, 2018 at 21:30
  • while we are thinking about this...it would be even better if code snippets were supported for more languages, or if there was an option to embed third-party widgets that support other languages Commented Dec 31, 2018 at 21:33
  • I know - I was thinking more of embedding a widget for sites that have PHP etc installed on the backend, where you can test PHP, for example Commented Jan 2, 2019 at 16:54
0

I've never met a good wizard in my magical life.

Actually this is inaccurate. I've never seen a wizard that solves the redirection problem in a way that wants me to interact with it. Wizards are just UI versions of a "Choose 1 for account information, choose 2 for security team".

I think it would be much better to post process the questions and maybe automatically move them to another sites.

2
  • 1
    Post processing is what we do when we flag them as to be moved somewhere. PS. I found one good wizard: Oracle DBMS uninstaller. When I started with 8i, it was a pain to remove all the leftovers, so I welcomed it with arms wide open :P
    – Alfabravo
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 22:08
  • 1
    There are unicorn Wizards it seems :)
    – tmaj
    Commented Jan 10, 2019 at 23:00

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