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Harm is already covered as a rejection reason:

We have two rejection reasons already for edits that cause harm:

spam or vandalism
This edit defaces the post in order to promote a product or service, or is deliberately destructive.

no improvement whatsoever
This edit does not make the post even a little bit easier to read, easier to find, more accurate or more accessible. Changes are either completely superfluous or actively harm readability.

and to an implied extent, this reason:

clearly conflicts with author's intent
This edit deviates from the original intent of the post. Even edits that must make drastic changes should strive to preserve the goals of the post's owner.

There's a lack of clarity over when to use the "causes harm" rejection reason:

There's been some discussion over what the "causes harm" reason is to be used for, and the consequences of its use. It's also not immediately clear what the difference is between the "causes harm" and "vandalism" reasons.

I'm an avid user and only learned that the "causes harm" reason can be used to write custom messages after posting a question and reading this comment:

No, that's really just a custom reason box. It doesn't say "causes harm" anywhere on the rejection. The idea is that you are only supposed to reject edits if they cause harm, though, not just on a whim. Obviously if you abuse it, someone will ask you to stop.
– Cody Gray♦

I had never tested this, as I didn't realise there was no consequence from writing the custom reason. The description implies that it causes harm.

In my opinion, the UX/UI should be intuitive and meet the user's expectation.

Requests for custom reasons:

There have also been requests to be able reject an edit for a custom reason, which would satisfy the desire for other rejection reasons brought up on Meta.

Custom rejection reasons to educate:

I've started using the "causes harm" reason to leave custom rejection reasons. The advantage of this is that I can explain to the user exactly why I'm rejecting their edit, and also tell them if I believe there is a better course of action. (Example 1 and 2).

Concerns about abuse or misuse of this new feature

There's some concerns in the comments that trivial edits will be rejected and the custom reason being used to explain why.

This comment

My big fear with renaming this to "custom reason" is that it'd be used to reject edits for being "too minor". The "causes harm" label makes clear that that's not a thing you're supposed to do - that as long as the edit is making the post strictly better, it should be approved. Allow any old "custom reason" and people will use it to reject edits for, say, fixing the unreadable code indentation but leaving the ungrammatical code untouched, or vice versa. Perhaps renaming to "makes post worse" instead of "custom reason" would do as a compromise between our positions.

and this comment

.../ Hence, clarifying and preventing usage for minor stuff.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact the reverse is true; the fear of bad edits being approved.

Making trivial suggested edits is not acceptable. They bump the question to the home page. They may indeed not make the post worse, but are not within the keeping of the spirit of making edits to improve posts. Making a trivial edit and leaving obvious formatting issues, is not ok.

From the help center:

Tiny, trivial edits are discouraged - try to make the post significantly better when you edit, correcting all problems that you observe.

Changing the box name will only assist in helping frustrated reviewers communicating with a user making a series of trivial edits to game rep.

Up until now, I've had to find the user's latest answer and post under it to make a mention of where I think they're going wrong. Of course this can be done in the causes harm box, but if it was named custom, I wouldn't have been tracking down users for the past few years, if I'd known how to use this custom box.

If there's any concern about anything abusive being written in the reason box, these can be flagged. Most users who have the rep to review suggested edits, understand how the site works and would understand that everything is transparent and users are held accountable for their actions.

Besides, it takes more effort to write a custom reason, than to click on one of the canned reasons.

Therefore, can we rename the "causes harm" reason?

I think we should rename this to "custom reason":
Edit rejection dialog, with desired feature change indicated with obligatory red freehand circle

(This was previously requested by S.L. Barth on Meta Stack Exchange.)

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  • 8
    Yup, until I read that comment from Cody, I had assumed that "Causes Harm" actually means that there might be some mechanism in place to ban users that got multiple "Causes harm" related rejections - similar to spam. I have avoided using that option on a few instances for that reason alone. So unless there is something behind the scenes that considers "Causes harm" as more harmful than any other reason, it should be reworded. Commented Sep 10, 2017 at 13:28
  • 9
    I remember a comment a while back where Shog said he didn't want to leave "custom reason" because then folks would reject edits for many inane things, like "polishing excrement" which made reviewers evaluate the quality of the post being edited and not the quality of the edit itself, which is what reviewers are supposed to do anyways.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 10, 2017 at 14:03
  • 7
    @Braiam I remember some discussion somewhere about editing off topic posts, that were not salvageable - like painting a cabin on the titanic so to speak. I'm having trouble finding it. Besides - there's more of an issue with people approving trivial edits than rejecting them. And to write a custom reason takes effort.
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 10, 2017 at 14:24
  • 3
    @Nisarg For what it's worth, there is no such tooling around the "spam or vandalism" rejection reason, either. The idea here is just that you should only be rejecting an edit if it's causing harm.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 8:08
  • @CodyGray You lose reputation when: one of your posts receives 6 spam or offensive flags: −100 Doesn't this apply to attempted edits as well? Or is it just manual at the moment? Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 8:19
  • 3
    @Nisarg Nope, that's only for posts flagged with the "spam" or "rude/abusive" flags. Does not apply to suggested edits that get rejected. You can be banned from suggesting edits by one of two ways: an automatic ban from having too many of your recent suggested edits rejected (for any of the reasons; doesn't matter which ones were picked), or a manual ban imposed by a diamond moderator.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 8:24
  • 6
    My big fear with renaming this to "custom reason" is that it'd be used to reject edits for being "too minor". The "causes harm" label makes clear that that's not a thing you're supposed to do - that as long as the edit is making the post strictly better, it should be approved. Allow any old "custom reason" and people will use it to reject edits for, say, fixing the unreadable code indentation but leaving the ungrammatical code untouched, or vice versa. Perhaps renaming to "makes post worse" instead of "custom reason" would do as a compromise between our positions.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 9:11
  • 2
    @MarkAmery I understand that fear, but that may not necessarily be a bad thing and perhaps the reverse is more to be afraid of.
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 9:31
  • what about making the comment possible (and optional) for all existing reasons (spam/no-improvement/conflicts-with-author/attempt-to-reply) and removing the "cause harm", hence requiring a custom rejection reason to be always in line with one of the valid reasons to reject?
    – Cœur
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 13:05
  • @Cœur the set reject reasons do not really cover everything - if there's a specific comment the reviewer wants to give the editor - it's just simple to keep it as it is, but make it more intuitive - by changing the name
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 13:27
  • Then, what about "Custom reason for serious harm"? Hence, clarifying and preventing usage for minor stuff.
    – Cœur
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 13:32
  • 1
    I also covered the fear of it being used to reject for minor stuff here. I honestly do not think that will be an issue - as it takes more effort to write a custom reason than to click on one of the canned reasons @Cœur (sorry for the extra ping)
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 13:38
  • 3
    @RealSkeptic the simpler the better really. Harm has an implication - that is well and truly covered within the canned reasons. A custom reason is just that - the reviewer wants to put in an explanation about why they're rejecting it. With all the literal thinkers on the site (I know I am) Causes another type of harm (expand in comment). Imagine the number of meta questions about what types of harm are ok to post in it. I'd probably still not have used it. Sometimes the person needs educating and they're not causing direct harm (indirect harm? e.g. by gaming the site in a lazy manner)
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 14:23
  • 2
    I'm unsure whether just "custom" is the best thing, but I do agree that "causes harm" is not really the right thing. The current UX is not consistent and seems like it's trying to trick reviewers - is that last option a custom reason box or not? If we're so worried about people misusing the custom reason, why make it available at all? Right now it's a custom reason box that's masquerading as something else, so either we should call it what it is or change it to what it's supposed to be (whatever that may be).
    – Ajean
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 16:11
  • 1
    @YvetteColomb I hesitate to answer just because I don't have a solid opinion on what it should be changed to, although you are right, 'custom reason' is exactly descriptive.
    – Ajean
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 16:30

3 Answers 3

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Every other reason on that dialog does double duty: it serves as guidance for the reviewer by suggesting potential problems they should look for in the edit, and it serves as guidance for the editor should their edit be rejected.

But the text on the last reason exists only for the reviewer. The editor will see what is typed; the text on the dialog is entirely for guiding the person rejecting the edit. To this end, it should endeavor to constrain the potential reasons that may be entered: certainly we don't want edits rejected because a reviewer disliked the editor's username, or lost his keys!

The current guidance is simple: explain why the edit made the post worse. A quick scan of the reasons being entered suggests that this is more than sufficiently flexible:

wrong use of quote-formatting, adds noise

Code blocks should only be used for code, not "python" or the problem description, and the emboldening is unneeded

Too insignificant to bother with.

this is just polishing turd.

...to list an arbitrary few of the 700-some rejection reasons entered over the past 30 days. Note that the most common reason among these is some variation on "abuse of code formatting", which is a great reason to reject an edit.

In short, I don't feel that further generalizing this buys us anything; no amount of discussion on meta can replace guidance that's ready at hand in the UI, and your suggestion weakens what little guidance now exists for that last reason, requiring a reviewer to gauge the usefulness of an edit (a notoriously controversial concept) rather than simply examining it for harm.

I would be open to suggestions for improving or further clarifying that existing guidance however.

See also: Editing is essential

6

I am in favor of changing this because currently the option does not accurately describe what it does. What we do with it depends on what we want it to be.

Right now, it functions as a custom reason box. Your custom reject reason is what is shown to the editor, and nothing else (I personally have not used this box as much as I would have because somehow I thought that "causes harm" was also shown to the editor, which it is not, as I only recently learned). However, the title indicates something different, and so it's sort of masquerading as something other than what it is.

Do we want a custom reason box? If not, well then let's drop it. If so, however, we should call it that. Are we concerned about it being abused? Yes, but having a custom box at all inherently allows abuse, so it comes down to weighing the risk over having the box at all. Honestly I think the suggested edits queue much more frequently suffers from the opposite problem (bad edits being approved).

If we also desire to keep the "instructions" to the reviewer that are implied by the current "causes harm" title, perhaps changing the placeholder text might do the trick. It already contains a directive to the reviewer, we could change it to something even more direct and bold. That way the entire UX makes sense.

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  • 1
    totally agree - logical and succinct (my debug settings are always on verbose - drives me and everyone else crazy) :D
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 16:58
  • 2
    Me too, for what it's worth ... I usually have to go over and un-verbosify my own words ;)
    – Ajean
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 17:00
  • 2
    Here was I thinking 'causes harm' was for edits that literally include malware / memory leaks or other bugs, not just 'makes post worse'
    – Ryan Leach
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 1:51
0

I rejected an edit today for translating the author's question, which is disallowed.

I wasn't familiar with the edit screen, so I started by reading the captions to narrow down which category made the most sense. At a glance, "Clearly conflicts with author's intent" felt like it fit best. However, researching after the fact shows that consensus is to use the custom one, "Causes Harm".

However, it was not apparent by reading through the rejection reason headings that "causes harm" would even be an custom reason where you could type in your own. It's only if you read each of the detailed descriptions that it is clarified that this is the "custom reason" option.

I propose that the heading should be updated. It could be just "Custom reason", but if we wanted to address the concern that people would misuse it, we could do something like:

This edit causes harm (custom reason)

or

This edit causes harm (explain)

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