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In , I often come across answers from a certain user on typical help vampire questions.

Questions that should be closed as duplicates, instead of being answered. You know the type: No research done, no attempts made at solving the problem, and the problem itself is something that can be solved by opening the first result on a google search for the question's title.
Basically, questions of such blatantly low quality, it takes more effort to write a short answer than to close it as duplicate.

Yet, some users insist on answering those questions, even though they're in possession of a gold badge in the related tag. (And can close obvious dupes with ease.)

Sure, a large portion of those questions will eventually be closed, and with some luck, deleted, but answers on questions that aren't deleted will still award rep to the help-vampire vampire. Rep they usually get from the answer being upvoted (even just once) / accepted. The quantity of answers on these low quality questions eventually adds up...

Is there anything we can do to further discourage (experienced) users from answering un-salvageable questions, or to encourage those users to close-vote them instead?
Meaning questions that should / will be closed within, say, an hour of being posted.

I've got a couple of ideas:

"Punishments":

  • A rep penalty for answering questions that are closed as dupe within a short time span after posting.
    Say, if a question is closed as dupe within 30 minutes of it being asked, a answer most likely wasn't the way to go.
    The rep penalty could be a set penalty, or the votes on the answer (including accept vote) could no longer count for the user's rep. The set penalty has the (arguable) disadvantage that upvotes could outweigh it.
  • A answer ban / throttle when a large portion of a user's answers end up being deleted (optionally: due to question deletion).
  • Restrict a user from answering questions posted by low rep users, if a large portion of their answers is deleted.
    A bit unorthodox, but a majority of the the help-vampire questions are posted by low rep users. If those questions can't be answered by people found "guilty" of answering low quality questions, too much... I'm not sure how users like this could be identified, and once they are, can work to have this status removed.

"Rewards":

  • Award rep to users participating in a close-vote
    This has some risks. The reward can't be too high, or users will blindly close-vote. The rep should obviously be lost if the question is re-opened. Gold badge owners shouldn't get too tempted to grind rep this way (no idea how, though).
  • Allow the OP of the question to immediately validate the dupe vote, maybe even linking some kind of reward to that.
    Just like suggested edits can immediately be accepted, it may be a good idea to allow dupe voted to be accepted by the OP

(These are simply suggestions, could well be that this wouldn't work for some reason)

I realize that some of these suggestions will only "punish" one side of the help-vampire problem.
I think it's more efficient to educate frequent visitors like this. New users will always keep asking without reading the rules / researching, and new users will keep coming to SO.

To be clear:

My intention with this post is to find a method to persuade experienced users to close-vote as duplicate, instead of answering.
The main problem is that users that know the site very well, still answer obvious duplicates, or easy, extremely low quality questions, just to get rep.

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    I like the motivation, but I feel that the ideas are still rather flawed. The dupe closing process is not perfect and can be disputed, and since gold badge user can be vampire helper themselves, it's not effective. Answer throttling may work based on answer deleted along with question depends on how frequent the question is deleted (which varies based on the number of serious people in each tag).
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 8:47
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    @Gimby: I've seen a user specifically answer those low quality, easy to answer posts. I've mjolnir'd at least half a dozen of the questions that specific user answered on, this (work-)week alone. It's not like I'm searching for questions answered by him. This user has some great answers, sure, but a lot of his answers are mediocre quick answers on even worse questions that should've been closed in the first place, just for the rep.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 9:18
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    @FrédéricHamidi: I've made that same comment half a dozen times before. I don't think he's following my suggestion.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 9:32
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    @FrédéricHamidi: Yes, that exact same user. Frankly, he's the "inspiration" for this suggestion. If his answers were all high quality, it may not be that big of a problem, but often enough, the answers are, well, crap.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 9:35
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    @Cerbrus, they're pretty representative of the problem. AFAICT nearly the entirety of their 200K+ rep comes from providing short answers to bad questions (they did drop the "try this" a while ago, though, and started to post "better" answers). It would be nice if we could put a system in place to prevent users from accumulating that much rep that way. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 9:38
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    @Gimby: Possibly, but I'm not going to call him out on a meta post.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 9:40
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    I don't see much of a problem with new users answering low quality/help-vampire/rep-whorish questions. After all, everyone needs to start somewhere. Asking new users to sit around for a long time waiting for a "good question" to show up is more likely to turn the user away from SO than to result in an answer being posted. (remember 90%+ of the questions on SO are crap) And when a good question does show up there's often so many people jumping on them (FGITW) that they can't possibly "win". What does bother me are high-rep users that never grew out of answering the easy stuff.
    – Mysticial
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 14:50
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    We should all have a stake in this. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:14
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    If the question should be closed as a duplicate, is it really a "help vampire" situation? it's not always easy to find duplicates, much less an answer to a question when you may not know the proper terms to search by. It's easy to find a duplicate of a question if you already know the answer.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 18:06
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    If the question should be closed as a duplicate, it's more likely to be a help vampire situation. Since those questions often lack research from the OP's side.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 18:16
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    @TravisJ: So far I've gotten plenty of input, as well as some good ideas on how this problem could be handled. Sure, it's a bit of a rant, and it's biased, but that doesn't mean this question no longer merits any discussion. Frankly, that comment isn't very constructive.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 19:05
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    @Cerbus - Let's be honest, this question identifies itself as a "public warning message", To be clear: My intention with this post is to persuade experienced users you sign off with. You start with a perceived gripe against another user. This is fully a rant, and is barely defined as evidenced by the inclusion of both the discussion and feature-request tags. Further, the topic of dissuading users from answering has been covered in the past multiple times and the resounding response is no, we should not discourage answers. I don't see anything else here, and that is why I voted to close
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 16:57
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    Regardless of the intention, this suggestion goes against the site's architecture, which is to reward users for answering questions. The site makes no attempt to punish users automatically for answering questions. All penalties incurred on the site (just like nearly all benefits), by design, come from community interaction of users.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 18:34
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    It only works for duplicates at the moment. Naturally, a lot of newer users who don't understand the site are probably very likely to argue that because their code is ever so slightly different, the questions aren't duplicates. That's likely why I've seen it more on meta: Less 'new' users and more who understand the system a bit. Should this work for other close reasons? I doubt it would work. If your question is flagged as too broad, and you're a new user, how likely are you going to be to agree it's too broad? (Just as an example.)
    – Kendra
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:22

9 Answers 9

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One solution would be to simply remove any Imaginary Internet Points gained from answering questions that are subsequently closed.

The following conditions should apply to this solution,

  • Previously used reasoning be used, for example:

First, if you've contributed something worthwhile to the site, you should keep the reputation for that even if it eventually gets deleted. "Worthwhile" here is defined as,

  • A score of 3 or greater

  • Visible on the site for at least 60 days

From: Reputation and Historical Archives

  • This would exclude duplicate questions. Duplicates are good signposts, so should be left alone. You would still gain rep from questions marked as a duplicate.
  • But my answer was really good! If a question is reopened then the rep would be re-applied, edit the question into shape and get it reopened!
    But the question is not salvageable! Feel free to post your good answer on a more deserving question.
  • No reputation should be lost in the making of this solution. This should not apply to any already closed questions, just questions closed after this is instituted.

This would not punish anyone. Users would not be rewarded for answering bad questions and it would hopefully encourage users to do the following,

  • Request better clarifications before answering.
  • (Suggest an) edit the question to make it adhere to the guidelines.
  • Vote to close if applicable.
  • Vote to reopen if applicable.

There would be no plus-side to answering bad questions unless you edit the questions into shape or encourage the author of the question to do so. Those answering the bad questions would hopefully join the fight for better questions and start moderating the questions they would have previously answered.


In the case that users 3k+ would simply try to reopen the question without editing it into shape first, they would have to convince four other users that it is not off-topic / unclear. Users only have one close and one reopen vote for each question, so when the question is inevitably closed again the same users won't be able to vote to reopen again. The answerer would have to convince another five users to vote to reopen.

This already happens, though hopefully not often, and the usual suggested solution is to just allow the war to run its course and it will either end up open because it is a good question or closed because it is not. Sometimes it may end up in the wrong state for the wrong reason, but we hope this doesn't happen and if it does then we hope some user will find it someday and (solicit) votes to close or reopen accordingly.


This query will show you answers that you have posted to questions which should not have been answered according to the current closure reasons, and some information about those answers.

This query will show you the estimated Imaginary Internet Points you have gained from answers posted to questions which should not have been answered according to the current closure reasons.

These queries are not completely accurate because they do not take into account the following,

  • Reputation Cap
  • Questions that predate their close reason
  • [on hold] questions.

Not taking into account the above as well as other possibly unseen caveats,

Again the above queries are probably pretty naive and are most likely not taking some things into account, but it is somewhat representative of the real total.


Please feel free to edit this solution if you think that you can clarify or the queries above if you can include what is not taken into account above.

Thanks to shog9 for the edits to the above queries.

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    Such a simple solution. I like the idea.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:15
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    This is never going to happen.
    – durron597
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:25
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    @durron597 That's a discussion from 2012. Things change.
    – user3717023
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:25
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    How would this handle popular questions that were closed 5 years in the future because the community felt they were no longer on topic? Just remove all of the rep gained there as well? Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:28
  • @durron597 The difference between that suggestion and this suggestion is that this would only affect posts that are closed, not on hold, and stay closed. If a question was opened again the rep could be reapplied.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:28
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    @KevinBrown If so then there is no reason not to follow the existing policy.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:31
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    This one seems like one of the best cases to move towards.
    – Cayce K
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:50
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    Are you suggesting that this should be retro-active? Another rep recalc may cause a panic.
    – apaul
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 1:43
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    Here: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/337355/… - still doesn't take into account the rep cap, but good enough for a napkin estimate. Also, this is a non-starter; 95% of the top 1000 answerers during the past 90 days would lose reputation - such a change would put the drama surrounding The Great Rep Recalc to shame; not only would it remove far more reputation, it would undo the very rep-retention provisions added following fallout from the recalc.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 4:14
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    edit in rev 15 looks okay to me. Another thing probably worth addressing is "grandfathered rep" - one that gets preserved upon deletion of the post having score >3 that has been visible for over 60 days. If such a rep becomes removed on a questions that stayed open for over 60 days, people may wonder how this complies with reasoning presented in Reputation and Historical Archives (frankly, I'd prefer such a rep to stay, simply to lower the resistance and friction of closures)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:49
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    If this was to happen I think the question age should also be taken into account and if a question is over a certain age when it is closed the reputation gains are kept.
    – Joe W
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 15:10
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    @Tanner I disagree with the OP on duplicates but the basic argument should apply to any other closed question. High rep users should know better than to answer bad questions and I can't think of a better way to teach low rep users not to do the same thing than to not reward them for doing it. This will also inadvertently teach them to suggest useful edits to questions and request better clarifications.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 16:12
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    pretty good! both the changes in rev 16 and overall "package" (I re-read twice to make sure). Have to admit, I was rather skeptical that such a radical proposal can be built without breaking important aspects of the system, but it seems that you somehow managed to handle that. Even the really tricky part about reopening looks okay now. Well done
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 16:59
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    I am on the fence about this proposal. First, it is a metric to dissuade answering, and answers should be encouraged - so it has a very large negative in place that it needs to overcome. Second, it doesn't seem to apply to many posts - so it serves more as a scare tactic than an actual tool for preventing answers (which, again, we don't want to do). I looked up my stats on your tool and apparently a whopping 640 of my reputation has come from that metric (1.6%) - so it wouldn't affect my fake internet points, but it would affect the mentality of answering questions in an undesirable way.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 18, 2015 at 8:42
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    meta.stackoverflow.com/a/255805/1026459
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 18, 2015 at 22:25
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I agree it's a problem but I don't think penalties, bans, throttling and restrictions for answering is the way to go.

Most of the problem is the low quality questions that people swarm around, which can be answered with minimal effort and time investment. I don't like the idea of blocking, but if any form of blocking is to be put in place, I'd personally prevent people from answering low quality posts for say 5 minutes.

It should be possible to look at the metrics that feed low quality posts into the review system, be they user orientated or based on the content/length of the post.

Using these metric to prevent answers temporarily would introduce a window of time where people can search for a duplicate that would appear in the comments before users have a chance to answer.

If somebody really wants to answer, they can wait 5 minutes. An answer to any half decent question would generally take at least that amount of time to formulate.

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    Your suggestion goes contrary to the grace period we currently have on closed questions, with users who started writing an answer before the question was closed still being allowed to post it, sometimes several hours later. That grace period would have to be delayed by five minutes too for your strategy to work at all, and I don't know if the community will accept that. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 10:46
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    @FrédéricHamidi couldn't the "add an answer" button simply be disabled to get around this?
    – Tanner
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 10:50
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    I like the alternative, but I'm not sure timers like these can work that well. What do you think about making the rep from answers on closed questions no longer count to your total?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 10:54
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    @Cerbrus I'm just not sure about taking away reputation in these cases. The duplicate Q&A process would be subjective on the question and answer. Say for example, the closed question had an answer that was actually far more detailed with multiple up votes than the answer on the duplicate post, should a more in depth answer be penalized?
    – Tanner
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 11:08
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    Proof of concept: a five-minute delay would have allowed me to close this often-asked question before it was answered both by a 170K+ user and a ~5K user. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 12:18
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    @FrédéricHamidi: Another option would be to block votes on answers during those 5 minutes, and lock votes on dupe-closed questions.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 12:33
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    @Cerbrus, that would be too drastic IMHO. After all, although misguided, the answerers did invest time and effort into their answers, so arguably our main rewarding system should still work under these conditions. (On the other hand, I sometimes suspect the number of upvotes on those posts is tied to the fact the question is closed as a duplicate in the first place.) Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 12:36
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    @FrédéricHamidi that's a great example right there!
    – Tanner
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 12:42
  • @FrédéricHamidi although, with my suggestion, I'm not sure that question would have qualified as low quality, unless user reputation under a certain level (1000?) could act as an indicator.
    – Tanner
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 12:47
  • @FrédéricHamidi here's my example for the day with a 133k user that holds a gold badge in topic: stackoverflow.com/questions/31454672/…. I don't hold a gold badge so I can't close it on my own.
    – Tanner
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 13:00
  • Who is identifying these "low quality posts"? Perhaps 5 users with close votes could mark a question as low quality some how, with some set of metrics, and then that would prevent other users from answering it.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 17:01
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    @Tanner How about this one? All answers are from after I closed it with Mjolnir. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 9:13
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    I would love to see the 'post answer after closure' window gone. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 9:20
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    Yes, they were all posted afterwards, so such feature would have prevented those answers. It is very easy to work-around the closing now. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 9:25
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    @PatrickHofman so I guess those guys were typing and had answers in draft while you closed so were still able to post, never actually been in that situation so have not experienced that first hand.
    – Tanner
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 9:26
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I doubt penalizing users will gain much ground, rather than punishing users for behavior we don't want I think we should reward them for behavior that we do want.

A while back Pëkka had a good idea, Create CW answer for every "Vote to close as duplicate" vote and I added:

We may be able to offer further incentive for users finding dups by allowing the "dup finder" to keep the +15 rep should the possible dup be marked as the accepted answer.

Basically when a user votes to close/flags a question as a duplicate a community wiki answer is created, if that answer is accepted by the OP the dup hunter gets to walk away with 15 rep for their time.


After some comment discussion I think adding a caveat that removes rep earned from answers to questions that are closed within X minutes could go a long way to encourage users to flag/vtc rather than posting a quick/dirty answer.

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    You would have to offer more rep. Users who choose to answer rather than close as dupe are often rewarded with upvotes and acceptance, tallying at worst 25 reputation. So you would have to offer 30 rep at least, which looks way too high. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:21
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    @FrédéricHamidi That's a fair point... Perhaps adding a caveat that answers to questions that are closed within X amount of time will have earned rep revoked would help with that.
    – apaul
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:25
  • But then we'd have gone full circle -- surely warning about rep revocation counts as penalizing users. (Sorry, I don't want to appear too negative here, but I'm afraid there is no simple answer to this problem.) Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:42
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    @FrédéricHamidi Again a fair point, but I think there's a subtle difference between being punished for bad behavior and not being rewarded for it.
    – apaul
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:46
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    @FrédéricHamidi Think of it as adding an incentive for doing the right thing while removing the incentive for doing the wrong thing.
    – apaul
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:47
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    This is a very good point, and I suspect the crux of this problem -- not rewarding should be considered as less hostile than penalizing. Alas, since not rewarding would go against behavior established for a few years and thus, I'm afraid, considered as "normal" by some, it may be difficult to drive that opinion home. Excellent point anyway. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:48
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    Badges for finding dupes would help too I think. Currently none of the SO incentive systems (rep pots, badges, privileges) actually incentivize finding dupes.
    – Barry
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 17:52
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I have nowhere near the experience that most of you do on this site (at least as a poster). However, I do have what may be a different background that makes me a bit more sympathetic toward at least some types of low quality questions, and also toward those who answer them.

I am a high school teacher--mostly math and science, but also a basic JavaScript course. The questions I get in person help remind me that many beginners, especially youngsters, don't always ask questions well for reasons others than laziness. They may not really know the terminology for an effective Google search like experienced programmers do. They may have no idea whether the answer to their question is a one step procedure or a very complex one. They may not have the problem solving skills to break a multi-step algorithm into pieces and make a good start themselves. They might even have tried to read something (perhaps even a duplicate question) but just couldn't quite follow it. In some cases, they're just kids who think it would be cool to have a website and don't really know how to start learning the "right" way.

I'm not saying that all low quality questions deserve sympathy. I'm particularly unsympathetic to blatant "Please do my programming homework for me" questions. Lazy professionals who could write a good question, but don't, deserve any sanctions they get. I do, however, think that it's a good thing if newbies--especially youngsters--find SO to be a safe place to learn a little something even if their question asking skills fall well short of professional standards. I can assure you that it doesn't take much unfriendliness to get many youngsters to stop asking questions.

What fraction of the poor questions are written by kids with highly immature skills as opposed to genuinely lazy people? I don't know; maybe some SO veterans have a better idea. Some of the poor questions I read strike me as the sort of thing I could easily see an interested but unskilled kid asking, but I can't know for sure.

I just know that I sometimes like to give the benefit of the doubt and try to teach a little something if I can. Yes, I suppose I could use the rep boost since I'm sitting at 324, but I don't think I'd do it much less if I didn't get rep for it. I would find it pretty disappointing, though, if you actually penalized me for trying to make someone a little better off.

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    See also the Stack Overflow question checklist as a resource for these beginners.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 3:15
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    As I ponder more, I feel torn. I've found solutions to dozens of issues on SO over the years (just reading existing posts), and I felt I should give back by answering questions myself. Maybe it's the teacher in me, but helping well-intentioned but unskilled people feeds me more than it drains me. They don't seem like "vampires." However, I want to be a good SO citizen, and if answering their questions really harms the site as a whole, then I would be willing to respect the SO community and stop. I guess I'm still learning the SO culture and will give your concerns serious thought.
    – DLH
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 6:10
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    SO is a pretty good place for your students, but only after you finished your job. Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 10:25
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    "What fraction of the poor questions are written by kids with highly immature skills as opposed to genuinely lazy people?" - I don't know either, but I don't care. SO is a site for professional and enthusiast programmers; it's not a tutorial or mentoring site. There are tons of resources for beginners which they should explore before asking on SO. We expect people to have a minimum amount of knowledge about the basics of programming before asking a question here.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 10:29
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    @I4mpi, you are absolutely right that beginners would be better served elsewhere. But the reality is that as long as search engine results are dominated by SO, they will arrive here in droves. So what experience do we want them to have when they arrive? Might it be constructive to helpfully suggest appropriate sites for beginners on a page shown to new question posters, at least if the tags include topics such as JavaScript, css, etc.? Mentoring clueless kids may not be SO's mission, but isn't it worth some effort to give them something less discouraging than a quickly closed question?
    – DLH
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 15:01
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    The first thing they need is to learn how to learn. They must learn how to RTFM, do research and try things out themselves first before asking for help from others. Guiding people is ineffective at the scale of SO.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 15:10
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    I completely agree with this answer, however, I can't think of a way of making beginners feel more welcome without dropping the quality threshold. We cannot just allow low quality questions to exist, and giving them answers just re-enforces them to create more low quality questions. Could we possibly come up with some kind of... resources for beginners page to nudge users who post "low quality questions" toward the resources they need to improve their skills outside of stackoverflow? Some kind of other community tailored toward newbie programmers, possibly hosted by some form of school?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 16:53
  • I liket the idea of a resources for beginners page. If you post a low quality question as a new user, it might link you to that? Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 17:53
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    @Josh Caswell the "SO question checklist" you posted is fantastic, but I doubt most new users are going to find it before posting their question. ...unless SO made it so that very low rep users (say, under 25) had to check off each point to say that they did each one before their question was actually posted. ... hmmm--I kind of like that idea.
    – David
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 18:09
  • Yeah, I was suggesting it as something DLH could pass on to eir students or others e knows personally, @PhatWrat.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 18:12
  • @DLH: It's a often fine discerment to make, judging whether an asker is helpable within the goals and bounds of this format, especially viewing just one question at a time. If you err a little on the side of "overly helpful" I don't think you'll do any harm; others of us will err on the opposite side, and we'll meet in the middle. Thanks for your consideration of the site as a whole.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 18:14
  • An example of such a community from my previous comment is nodeschool. It's a self-help learning tool that challenges new developers to work through scenarios that build their node.js skillset and introduces them into new ideas and ways of looking at problems and solving problems.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 18:27
  • Actually I think there is a pretty big difference. A newbie asking a newbie question is quite different from someone who shows up with a task spec and wanting someone to do it for them.
    – Sobrique
    Commented Jul 18, 2015 at 9:02
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I think this could actually work out, but for users that consistently answer questions that are closed afterwards. It is undesirable that users answers bad questions, as much as it is undesirable that they do so unknowingly or deliberately.

A message informing them that they are incurring on a "potential problem" by answering those questions, since they could be deleted afterwards, may be the first step towards corrective actions. The specific implementation may be open for discussion (% of answers that were closed in X time window, perhaps) along with more definitive actions if warnings are ignored.

I know that this is possibly a re-spin of some "message answerers if the question is closed" FR, but I don't remember where I saw the one that gave interesting ideas.

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    idea of a warning looks quite elegant. Corrective action for users who are getting too much warnings can be simple throttling - that is blocking them from answering questions that are 5 (10, 20...) minutes old. That way could sort of level playing field for users voting to close bad questions
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 16:12
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Punishment is unlikely to have much positive effect, instead it may deter answerers from providing answers.

"but but, that's what we want right?"

No, because the pool of answerers is already small enough, we need to instead motivate these answerers to begin doing more than answering questions; lets get them to start moderating questions too, so that they will see that the question should have been closed instead of answered.

I'm not entirely sure how to accomplish this, however, one thing that seems to motivate lower rep users is gaining reputation, so maybe find some way to incentivize question closure in such a way that it doesn't get overly abused. For example, paying rep for a close vote similar to downvoting, and then getting that rep back plus a little bonus if the question ends up being closed, and losing it again if it then gets reopened. This may be difficult though if deleted questions are eventually hard deleted, not sure if that ever happens. And then there's the fact that close votes now fade away, would you get rep back when it fades away?

I feel part of the disconnect is that they (newer answerers) see all of this negativity involving downvotes and question closures and feel that we're just being mean and negative rather than helpful, and I'm not sure how we can fix that other than through UI changes, making things like votes less dominant on the page.

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    I don't however feel question closure should result in a gain of 15-30 rep, 2 should be plenty, along with some badges to persue.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 18:49
  • Heck, i'm sure there's a large pool of users who regularly provide answers that don't even have the close vote privilege yet. Not much point in providing incentive for them to do something that they can't do. They could flag for closure, but I don't feel that really has much effect (but that may be because i don't use the review tools.)
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 19:08
0

This is a question about gamification. Stack Overflow motivates me by giving me points and tag score.

That these are arbitrary is rather beside the point.

Likewise at least part of my motivation is helping people and solving problems.

Answering even a bad question presses these buttons. Closing it does not.

Seperately, we have the help vampire question. Who aren't interested in rep but just want to get their job done. So will all shoddy questions "just in case ".

I would like to offer a different option. Since what we want is good questions and good answers, maybe we should start deferring rep awards until a question hits a certain score. Scale it by tag activity perhaps, just so quiet tags don't sit idle indefinitely. (And if it gets closed, before it hits enough votes then no score)

You aren't the penalising bad behaviour, but instead focusing on rewarding the good ones.

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    You might want to take a look at the reversal badges. While most are deleted (and it's no loss), there are a few gems deserving every upvote despite the question deserving every downvote too: stackoverflow.com/a/3905805 Commented Jul 19, 2015 at 12:56
  • 1
    Yes, granted. But realistically, how often does that actually happen, compared to the rather large amount of places where it doesn't?
    – Sobrique
    Commented Jul 19, 2015 at 14:40
-1

SO I ran the little query someone provided. It looks like I'd lose 1K of my rep from that- about 3%. So not a huge amount. But I can tell you that if I felt I was being punished for helping people (which is the only reason I'm on this site), I would absolutely stop answering. And I'm a fairly high rep user- a low rep user would be even more likely to leave. This idea would cause SO to lose far more than it gains. Quite frankly, while mildly annoying these questions are not actually a problem in the current system - they're downvoted and closed quickly. You're trying to fix something that's already handled.

The OP also mentioned duplicates- I'm not going to check every single question to see if it's a dupe. After all these years most things are. I'll do it for the ones that are asked all the time, or that I know have an awesome answer somewhere. I'm not going to google every question before I answer it - and its not a reasonable expectation that I should. Especially not for newer users.

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    I think you may have misunderstood the query, it does not include duplicates in the equation as those questions are considered good sign-posts. You have gained 1395 reputation points from questions considered not good enough for stackoverflow. The current rooma rules say that if any of the answers to these questions get upvoted or if an answer becomes accepted, then the question will not be automatically deleted...
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:02
  • However, after suggestions from users here, I've concluded it would be better if this did not affect questions closed prior to the time that it would be instituted. The last question that you posted which matches the criteria was posted on 2015-04-16 three months ago, which was closed as Too broad. Can you really tell me that is a good question to answer? If it is not too broad, then you should be able to edit it into shape so you can get your reputation points. If it is too broad then is it really worth keeping around?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:02
  • The intention of my suggestion is not to punish users for answering these questions, but to not reward users for answering them and encourage answerers to edit the questions to make them more clear and on-topic for other readers. If a user still wants to be helpful then they are allowed to and not punished for doing so, just not rewarded either.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:06
  • Rereading that question- I amusingly both decided to answer and voted to close it. Hard to remember 3 months ago, but my thought is the vote to close was due to the fact a full answer on "How to store multi-dimensional data in SQL" was too broad, but the specific question of the 3 level one is well within range and deserving of an answer. If reasked right now I would do so again. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:08
  • So then do you think the question should be reopened? If so then you would be encouraged to vote as such. Questions being unjustly closed for the wrong reason is just as bad as questions not being closed
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:09
  • Also looking at that specific question again- I voted to close on the original version. I think the edited one is good enough, and have voted to reopen. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:10
  • I appologize. For some reason I confused you with the OP- I'm going to delete that comment. And its not so much the loss of my karma that would anger me (I have a ton of it), but if users, especially new ones, see karma coming and going- they will be pissed. I would have been. A lesson learned from gaming- never take an achievement away from a user. Games that allowed xp loss and deleveling were roundly hated when there were alternatives that didn't. It feels like moving backwards, and we will lose good people to it. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:17
  • Ok, but would you be ok with not earning rep for questions that were considered not good enough? Would you go back and edit questions to make them on-topic and pay more attention to the questions that you've answered which have been closed? The other query on my suggestion is pretty helpful in identifying and cleaning. I used it to clean up my old answers. And I read the question I mentioned and your answer, voted to open and voted up the answer and the question.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:21
  • I haven't edited a question for other than formatting or spelling mistakes ever, so probably not. At this point in my SO life the karma loss would go missing in the noise. But now take a new user, who doesn't know or understand all of the various undocumented/semi-documented rules of SO. All he knows is his karma is appearing then disappearing, or not appearing at all. At best that's confusing, at worst frustrating. I think that's bad. Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:30
  • Although since you're the query expert :) here's a question for you- does this even matter? What percentage of total karma granted is caused by this? If we're talking 1-2% or even less (which would be my guess)- would it be worth the extra complexity and confusion? Is this really a question we need to waste time worrying about? Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:35
  • Jon skeet has gained approximately 70,000 reputation points from questions like this, not taking into account questions that were posted before their close reason was instituted, but thats not the point (and neither is the point that I'm not actually a query expert) the point is that if you really want to be helpful and not just out for rep, then you can totally go ahead and answer, if not then you would most likely find answers that are more worthy of your time. And as for new users, I'm sure something could be added to the help pages.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 7:42
-4

Maybe I've been too focused on punishment, that I missed an obvious alternative:

Reward users for casting close-votes.

When a question is closed that you cast a close-vote on, reward the close-voters with a small amount of rep.

This amount should obviously not be that high that users just blindly closevote everything, but something like 2-5 points could be an option.
(This is a big risk when rewarding close-votes...)

This option rewards desired behavior, without negatively affecting anyone.

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    No, we can't do that. We already tried that with badges in the review queues (and +2 rep boni for approved suggested edits) and we ended up with hordes of drones, half of them suggesting crap and the other half approving it. Offering rep for closure would result in a rampage by users indiscriminately closing questions around as fast as they can. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 13:53
  • 1
    Even if it's just a measly 1 rep? At least questions will get closed in time then ;-)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 13:54
  • 2
    Yup, even a measly 1 rep (look at the mess a measly 2 rep made). The problem is not questions being closed in time, but the deserving questions being closed in time :) Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 13:55
  • Hm, collateral damage ;-) I didn't think it would attract that many blind votes.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 13:58
  • @FrédéricHamidi : It is quite different here. Suggested edits aim at low rep users, whereas voting to close requires 3000 rep. IMHO, flagging for close should still be handled with Deputy and Marshall badges. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 14:24
  • 13
    @Serge, it looks like you're implying that 3K+ users will not engage in rep-greedy, ultimately-destructive behavior because they have 3000 rep. Of course, if that were true, then this question would not need to exist in the first place. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 14:37
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    Yea, this question is inspired by a user that has way more than 3k rep.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 14:39
  • @FrédéricHamidi That's a little backwards too since there's surely some high rep users that have high rep because they've actively pursued it. Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 16:21
  • Reward finding duplicate questions -- +10 +2 -5
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 17:18
  • 1
    Why not add +1 rep for each question closed, then if it is later reopened without editing the user would lose the +1 because obviously the question shouldn't have been closed, otherwise the question obviosly should have been edited and the close vote was correct.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 15, 2015 at 22:22
  • @TinyGiant then I think the queues would be flooded still. though there might be some justice what occurs if the queues overflow and not enough reviewers want to actually make sure they should or should not be closed?
    – Cayce K
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 20:49
  • @CayceK I think that it would address the queue flooding somewhat, as users would be more determined to get questions closed, so they would actively seek out other users close votes in the chatrooms. I don't think however, that this suggestion would have as positive an effect as my subsequent suggestion
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 16, 2015 at 21:01
  • @TinyGiant I guess it might, but one of those shoot in the dark situations. Could go either way. Overall I agree with your suggestion the most (got my upvote :))
    – Cayce K
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 1:32
  • 1
    @CayceK thanks, btw you would only lose 15 Imaginary Internet Points if my suggestion gets approved.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 1:35
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    @TinyGiant I know this is not a constructive comment, but if I could vote for your suggestion again I would just because of that query lol
    – Cayce K
    Commented Jul 17, 2015 at 1:40

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