233

When someone asks a questions on SO, they are expected to check that the question was not asked before. It is even worse if the question has been asked some 20 times before, because it shows little regard for the site.

Well what about people who would answer questions on SO? Is there any burden on them? If a question has been asked some 20 times before, should they go ahead and give the answer again (or worse copy the answer from a dup) or should they just simply go into the comments section and note that it is a duplicate? To me, answering shows just as much disregard for the site.

The problem is that a question gets closed later on for being a duplicate, but everyone who answers keeps their rep. The question and questioner are called out, but the answer givers remained unscathed.

Is there anything we can do or should do to discourage answer givers from answering obvious duplicates? Either by loss of rep for the question, or even bans for repeated behavior?

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  • 42
    I would agree with this in really blatant cases, but there are many questions that are marked as duplicate and they're not the same actually (some of them depend on very little details that make change the context 180 degrees). How would you manage to avoid false positives like these?
    – nKn
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 13:44
  • 226
    I don't see why we should attack people for giving good quality answers, even if they are duplicates. Those people still took time and care to write them. Besides, how can we confirm 100% that the answerer knew that the question was a duplicate? In my opinion, the proper course of action is to worry about closing the duplicate question, not preventing answers to it.
    – user2555451
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 13:48
  • 44
    If I'm an asker who puts in no research, the biggest encouragement for me to keep doing so is if I come back in 5 minutes with a link to the correct answer.
    – djechlin
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 13:48
  • 12
    @iCodez What about the case when a question is already flagged as duplicate and someone who has answered the duplicate posts an answer to this one too! And the new answer is of inferior quality compared to the older one.
    – devnull
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 13:54
  • 10
    ... downvote them?
    – Bart
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 13:56
  • 9
    Oh, the other point I wanted to make is that if a question asker gets answers from a blatant duplicate, they are going to keep on asking blantant duplicates because they get their answers.
    – demongolem
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 13:58
  • 9
    @devnull - Also, if you are a very active user, it is a little hard trying to remember the hundreds and sometimes even thousands of answers that you have posted. I'm sure that most answers who post duplicate answers simply forget that they have answered the question before. :)
    – user2555451
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 14:05
  • 25
    I think the proposal by @Shog9 to provide an incentive for finding dups makes more sense. There will end up being too many borderline cases which may make many hesitant to mark a question as a dup since it carries a stiff penalty. That is opposite to the goal of better information organization. I want a better site not to whack people for providing answers. Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 15:32
  • 9
    I think it will be counterproductive. Answers may differ ever so lightly and editors may miss the nuances. In some cases new versions make old answers obsolete. If the onus is on answers to find the duplicate question and answer that, we may see a drop in participation. Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 20:07
  • 19
    This seems really counterproductive. People should be concerned with answering questions when they see them, not spending lots and lots of time checking for duplicates. And how are you going to define what is an obvious duplicate and what is not? Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 23:38
  • 12
    @iCodez: Because people who feed the help vampires are part of the problem. Commented Apr 28, 2014 at 15:45
  • 7
    @BenVoigt No, that's "in theory." In practice, questions that aren't really duplicates get closed as duplicates all the time. Furthermore, this entire post is about penalizing the answerers, not the asker. If the asker never revisits the question to clarify and request reopening, the answerer would then be penalized. In essence, you are saying that the answerer's reputation should be dependent on the person who asked the question.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 0:54
  • 13
    At the end of the day, StackOverflow is about helping people find answers to their questions. The only way duplicates really detract from that is if the time could have been better spent on answering a different question. Additionally, the incredibly fine line and subjective nature of duplicates makes the idea of punishing people for answering both impractical and unpalatable. A reward system might be worth consideration, but it suffers from the same problems of the fuzziness of the issue and would be easily gamed. Given those options, the current situation (while not ideal) is preferable.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 0:58
  • 12
    Absolutely not. If there is a lurking penalty for answering what turns out to be a duplicate, many people won't bother ever answering. I often come on for two or three minutes to answer a question, and then leave. If I had to search the entire site for a duplicate first (a potentially arduous task), I'd never answer anything. Add to that what was said in the first comment: one little detail can change everything. A policy like this would gut the community. Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 22:02
  • 8
    Asking questions is a very important part of learning, it should not be discouraged. Even if the question is duplicated, what if the answer is different ? Commented May 1, 2014 at 2:18

15 Answers 15

252

While there's certainly a case to be made for egregious duplicates, there's a lot of gray area which makes automated application of this rule impractical.

For example, someone may ask a very interesting technical question. It will get a lot of votes and probably interested discussion. Then, a week later, someone remembers seeing a similar question, and marks the question as duplicate. In the meantime, does everyone who contributed to the "duplicate" suddenly lose out on the rep gain? Furthermore, in this kind of case, it is frequently observed that the new question gains fresh answers that the old question did not. So, it would be wrong in this case to suddenly penalize everyone because a duplicate was located.

Instead of penalizing answerers, then, I propose we reward duplicate-finders. Something very simple, like +10 rep for proposing a duplicate that was ultimately accepted as the dominant close reason, would incentivize people to locate duplicates on questions (maybe in lieu of answering them). Closing as duplicate is as good as providing an answer (in most cases), and it helps to reduce clutter on the site.

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    This is a good idea as long as the incentive isn't too large. We're only just making headway at reducing the backlog of close votes, so don't want to end up with a lot of spurious duplicate flags.
    – Miller
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 19:37
  • 36
    This is why I would like a "Close with prejudice" checkbox. (ಠ_ಠ) Let the voters decide if answerers should be penalized in each case. Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 0:03
  • 8
    Some things really need to have no badge/points, and be powered only by those who's motivation is the betterment of the community. Otherwise in the face of "is this a duplicate or not" you are providing an incentive to be biased slightly to one side of that choice.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 0:03
  • 59
    @AaronLS: The present incentive structure is biased in exactly the opposite fashion. Users are incentivized to answer duplicates and ignore that they are duplicates, simply because they will gain rep by answering (but not by doing the "right thing" and marking duplicates).
    – nneonneo
    Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 0:45
  • 7
    @nneonneo So lets make it worse by piling on more bad behavior with another biased incentive? Now we'll have people answering the duplicates, and in addition things that aren't duplicates getting flagged as duplicates. YAY
    – AaronLS
    Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 7:08
  • 2
    This wouldn't work too. One would argue that a rep gain of 5 or so upon closing as dup is insignificant in comparison to what one gains by answering a duplicate. Moreover, if it's a FAQ then it'll attract even more upvotes.
    – devnull
    Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 16:20
  • If this is implemented, then it would be necessary to somehow determine if a user is actively making new accounts for the purpose of marking them as duplicates. It's pathetic that someone would do that but it definitely would happen.
    – SimonT
    Commented Apr 27, 2014 at 12:43
  • This is a good proposal. My hunch is that the Question Poser doesn't give a toss if it's a duplicate or not. And the Answer Provider may or may not care either, but sees a chance to snipe out 15 rep which the Poser will award whether it's a duplicate or not!
    – Gayot Fow
    Commented Apr 28, 2014 at 16:51
  • 4
    Good idea. IMO +5 for ferreting out a potential dup that's accepted as such seems reasonable to me. Also, possibly a "Skunk Detector" or "Duptector" badge for finding dups. Commented Apr 28, 2014 at 17:23
  • 12
    +1 EXCEPT I do not like the idea of incentivizing marking something as duplicates. I feel like this would lead to the same problem that giving cops ticket quotas creates - duplicates would be given not because they are warranted but because people are rep farming. I've already seen some drive-by duplicate marking that are questionable. The reporter just didn't read the question well enough to understand how it differed. I feel like this would make this a bigger problem and lead to a new SO meta question - "How do we penalize people who mark loosely related questions as duplicates for rep?"
    – dallin
    Commented Apr 28, 2014 at 20:38
  • 9
    It would be great if you could somehow indicate that the question is a duplicate and then give the Questioner the chance to accept that it is a duplicate. If the Questioner accepts that the question is a duplicate it could automatically close and the questioner and the duplicate finder could both gain some small (+2? +5?) rep.
    – John Paul
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 18:51
  • 1
    @dallin There would still be much more rep farming done by those who ask dumb questions or reply to questions that have already been asked, just because those are the most obvious basic permissions given to newcomers. Plus, this would at least encourage new users to search before answering. Users would only gain the rep for marking a duplicate if it was accepted, so those users who attempt to farm rep by inappropriately marking duplicates could have their rep docked every time their flag was rejected. Commented May 1, 2014 at 4:24
  • 14
    +1 to the idea of boosting rep for finding a duplicate. Marking true dupes as dupes improves the function of Stack Exchange as a manicured web of information within the world wide web. To the site's core users, dupes are frustrating. To the audience that Stack Exchange exists to serve most of all (Google searchers), dupes are merely related pieces of information. Try to see things from their perspective. They benefit from answers, whether in response to the original or the dupe. Instead of scaring people away from answering, encourage people to make the site more interconnected.
    – Jordan
    Commented May 1, 2014 at 7:45
  • 5
    I dislike this idea, as it is WAY too many questions are getting marked as duplicate by people who do not understand (or don't care about) the nuances of the question.
    – Paul
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 0:20
  • 2
    It strikes me that the rep for correctly recommending a dupe should be about the same as the rep for making an accepted edit - provided we can think of a way of ensuring that nonduplicates are not marked as duplicates.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 3:29
51

The problem is that the person who is best placed to judge whether a given question is a duplicate is often the OP. The fact that a question is posted at all means that the OP has failed to find the question that it's a duplicate of, or does not consider it to be a duplicate. But once a question has been closed as duplicate, the OP doesn't really have a chance to explain why it's not really a duplicate at all. It's very difficult to get closed questions reopened.

So my suggestion is a little outside of the square.

  1. Remove the "duplicate of ..." option from the "Vote to close" menu.
  2. Have a new link under the question for "show duplicate", which prompts the user for the question, in exactly the same way as the "duplicate of ..." does currently.
  3. When this option is used, instead of a close vote, the system generates an actual answer, which can be upvoted, downvoted, commented on and accepted just like every other answer. The text of the answer would just be "this question is a duplicate of XXXXX", including a link.
  4. If the OP accepts the generated answer, that means that they agree that the question is a duplicate. At this point, the question should be automatically closed. It's not clear in my mind whether the OP should get their +2 for the acceptance; but we DO want to encourage them to select this option, without encouraging them to deliberately post duplicates.
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  • 8
    Holy cow, that is a clever idea. Something like this should definitely be considered. Even if the end solution is somewhat different, this is a great starting point for solving the problem in a way that doesn't penalize people for helping. It also subverts the negative emotional response from having your first question closed. Ever since I saw this question, I kept thinking there must be a better option no one has thought of yet; I think something in this vein is it. Wish this had more upvotes, sir.
    – jpmc26
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 2:39
  • 4
    Yeah. Also, someone who deliberately posts duplicates risks losing more rep from downvotes on the question than they gain from an acceptance. Commented May 2, 2014 at 2:48
  • 2
    I really like this. One question, however: what do you do with a stubborn OP who insists that their question isn't a duplicate, though it clearly is?
    – Trojan
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 16:01
  • 4
    Are you going to upgrade this to a feature-request? Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 21:53
  • 2
    @Deduplicator - I don't think I will make a feature request from this answer, given that there are (currently) two answers here that have outscored this; and the top ranking-answer (currently) has a net vote of almost 14x this one. So clearly, the people who want my solution to be implemented are in the minority. However, if anyone else wants to make a feature request, I won't try to stop them. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 23:40
  • 2
    "failed to find the question that it's a duplicate of" or they never tried, or their example is so narrow that if they had actually created a mcve, they would understand why it is a duplicate.
    – zero298
    Commented Jul 25, 2018 at 18:19
  • 2
    It is obviously false that "The fact that a question is posted at all means that the OP has failed to find the question that it's a duplicate". There are tons of posted question where it is clear that no searching was done.
    – IRTFM
    Commented Dec 1, 2019 at 0:23
  • 2
    Failing to search for something is by far the surest way to fail to find it. Commented Dec 1, 2019 at 0:54
42

The way you prevent reputation gain from answers to duplicate questions is by not upvoting them.

There are already too many people that think "your question is already answered over here" is a valid reason to close as duplicate, even if the original question bears little resemblance. I would not like to see additional incentives or disincentives promoting that idea, and SE has a long-standing tradition of not messing with votes or reputation anyway.

For questions that are constantly and repeatedly asked (like the i++ + ++i one in C, and the "Headers Not Sent" one in PHP), there's already a remedy; close as duplicate of a canonical question. See the PHP and C++ Tag Wikis for examples of good canonical/reference questions.

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    "The way you prevent reputation gain from answers to duplicate questions is by not upvoting them." This method clearly doesn't work, to the point that this answer is effectively useless.
    – djechlin
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 17:04
  • 13
    That's my little way of saying that we're not in the business of removing people's votes for specious reasons. In general, we don't touch people's votes at all unless they're engaging in voter fraud.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 17:04
  • 2
    The answer would be clearer, then, if you said you believed this wasn't a problem; that if some people feel duplicated answers are good then they are free to upvote by design, but if you don't feel this is a good answer then you are free to not upvote, also by design.
    – djechlin
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 17:06
  • 17
    I don't believe that. But the integrity of the voting system takes precedence. Once you start stuffing ballot boxes, you might as well throw out voting.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 17:09
  • 3
    This has nothing to do with the integrity of the voting system, it has to do with the integrity of the reputation system which is widely viewed as approximate or dubious at best, for instance, because people do stupid crap like answer cheesy, trivial duplicates for a deluge of rep instead of do the work of closing it properly. Revoking rep is just as in deleted questions. Our policy is not to delete duplicates, even the really bad ones since they are "sign posts." But upvoted answers to other terrible closed questions lose rep when the question is deleted. Fair? Of course not.
    – djechlin
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 17:05
  • 4
    @djechlin: I see XX% (very high percentage) of duplicate questions that are wrongly marked as such for the tags where I know something. It might not be statistically significant I've looked at less than 50 duplicate candidate questions in the review queue but it confirms my general feeling of the site. Let's not amplify the errors by inventing deterrents for answering a question on the Q/A site.
    – jfs
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 20:14
  • 1
    @J.F.Sebastian well, the initial question "Should there be a deterrant for answering obvious duplicate questions?" stands at 22 upvotes, so there is clearly some interest in inventing a deterrent for answering questions on the Q/A site. The problem is I am deterred from answering good questions because there are too many bad questions to find a good one. More directly I'm deterred from finding duplicates, and the truth is finding a duplicate is often a good, meaningful answer with some work into it (for subtler duplicates). See the top 3 answers on the "Is SO meaner" question.
    – djechlin
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 20:36
  • 1
    This doesn't work, period. Two days pass by and a question with 2K+ views doesn't attract a single vote to close as duplicate even when the relevant question was on the top of the list of related questions. Lets get rid of this duplicate feature.
    – devnull
    Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 16:11
  • 3
    I agree wholeheartedly. This answer does not suggest that there is no problem. Rather, it suggests that the problems inherent in trying to leverage the voting system to deal with this have too many negative effects to be worthwhile.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 1:02
  • How can I answer questions that are borderline duplicates (but still not duplicates), if my answer for both questions is essentially the same, without being reprimanded for it?! Or what other options do I have? See also meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/315293/… Commented Jan 23, 2016 at 2:39
  • @jpmc26: "find answers to their questions. The only way duplicates really detract from that is if the time could have been better spent on answering a different question." - I have often made the experience that there is a closely related problem to what I am looking for, but that can be answered in a way that does not help me. In such a case, having to dig through 10 questions that are all duplicates, just to find out they are all about the closely related problem is certainly detracting from finding answers. Commented Jan 28, 2016 at 14:54
22

It is hard to tell for why someone answers a duplicate question. Reasons may include

  • They did not bother to check for duplicates
  • They know of the duplicate and just post to gain a few more rep.
  • They didn't check for duplicates because it was something so new to them that they did not think of it being one
  • They did search but found none

Especially for the last one, in a lot of cases it can be debatable whether it really was or was not. In the end, when enough people voted that it is indeed a duplicate, the main point is that whoever answered the question was of a different opinion than those voters.

Should he be in any way punished for that? Or for the true inability to find the "right" duplicate?

I don't think so.

For the other points, maybe. But how can we know? What should we assume? I think the base assumption should be that it was to help the community, and not detecting it as a duplicate was a honest mistake. Just like in court you are innocent until proven guilty.

But of course this leaves the situation somewhat unsatisfactory, so the real question is probably: how can we encourage people to search harder for duplicates, and when they have the "urge" to answer, how can we encourage them to answer the other duplicate instead?

One solution that currently is in my mind is something like automatically locking a question when it was closed due to being a duplicate, so whoever answered/questioned won't get more rep. Not to punish them, but to show that this is not what we want. Already given votes should remain and produce rep. After all a lot of upvotes on questions and answers also serves as an indicator to future visitors to say "This is what we want" (which is probably also for the extra textbox on "locked for historical reason" questions to tell that this is not what we want).

And then add some nice text explaining that it would be nice for whoever looked there to add their answer to the "old" duplicate, telling them that it is ok to answer if they have soemthing substantially to add, even if the old question is really old.

Then maybe for all those people that answered, a notification could be sent saying "Hey, you answered this question, but it has been closed as a duplicate. Do you maybe want to post your answer to the other duplicate?" maybe even with some tool support automagically copying it on a click of a button. This way we could even consolidate all the answers.

And as a last thought, just like in bugtracking software, maybe in the "master" question there could be a list of questions that had been marked as duplicate of this one. Though, it might be pretty big for some...

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  • 5
    Preventing rep gain once a question is closed as a duplicate has the problem that it takes away the incentive to further improve your answer. On occasion you see answers to duplicates that end up being much better than the answers to the original question. That may not have happened if the rep was capped in some way. Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 16:19
  • 6
    @ShafikYaghmour: If a user is willing to spend some effort to improve his answer, surely he can follow the proposed solution and repost/move the answer to the duplicate; especially when the site makes this a single click thing.
    – PlasmaHH
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 18:22
  • 3
    There is merging process and from what I understand and from my experience or asking for merges they usually don't want to merge new answers to old questions. Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 19:17
  • 4
    One reason you've omitted: It would take longer to find the duplicate than to answer the question. It is often purely an issue of 'what is the quickest way to give the asker an answer to the question', and writing the answer is often a heap easier than finding the right duplicate. There could, perhaps, be an incentive for identifying duplicates, but the difficulty then is that it will be gamed and people will robo-vote for duplicates, and you're back in a mess — a different mess, but still a mess. Commented Apr 26, 2014 at 15:21
  • 1
    see meta.stackexchange.com/q/112485 for a modest proposal to make duplicate finding a little easier.
    – AShelly
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 13:58
  • 2
    What @JonathanLeffler said - its easier to provide useful information than to hope a duplicate gets closed. There are so many unclosed duplicates out there with basically bad answers - I feel its better to improve the quality of answers in that case. Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:08
  • 1
    Another omitted reason is "didn't have enough rep to flag as duplicate"; always a possibility to consider when wondering why a user didn't use a particular StackExchange feature. Commented May 7, 2014 at 15:56
  • Another omitted reason is that many questions aren't exact duplicates of existing questions, but contain aspects which weren't included in the so-called "duplicate". If part of a question isn't answered in the "duplicate", does it make more sense to have the answer on the question where it was asked, or on a question where it's apt to get down-voted as off-topic?
    – supercat
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:27
  • How can I answer questions that are borderline duplicates (but still not duplicates), if my answer for both questions is essentially the same, without being reprimanded for it?! Or what other options do I have? See also meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/315293/… Commented Jan 23, 2016 at 2:39
17

I feel like answerers already have enough to deal with when it comes to policing poor quality questions. It should not be their responsibility to also ensure every question they provide an answer to hasn't been asked before. That's the asker's responsiblity.

Otherwise, we'll find fewer people willing to answer because they don't want to go through the added hassle of doing a background check on each question they answer (or the risk of getting penalized for taking the time to answer a question).

I feel like answerers already freely give enough of their time writing good answers that it would be disrespectful to ask for too much more.

1
  • 1
    And by downvoting perfectly valid answer simply because the question is duplicate is simply discourage people from answering too.
    – vanowm
    Commented Nov 27, 2021 at 16:03
13

Why should it be up to the person answering to determine if there is a duplicate question? The burden should be on the person asking.

Judge the answer by the quality of that answer, not on the quality of the question being asked.

This idea that you should penalize people for taking time to write good answers is something I have never understood, and is one of the reasons Stack Overflow has become frustrating lately. While you can make the argument that answering duplicates enables folks to continue to ask duplicates, there are other solutions to the problem rather than punishing those who enable Stack Overflow exist in the first place.

1
  • 5
    By the way, do we not have the ability to merge questions? I thought I have seen some of my answers merged into other questions before.
    – Brad
    Commented Apr 29, 2014 at 0:32
11

Yes. No rep should be received if the question is closed as duplicate. No SE employee has bothered to explain why this isn't the case yet. It's covered in this feature request on the other meta.

5
  • 1
    This goes back to this old question I answered on Meta.SE: meta.stackexchange.com/posts/56829/revisions
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 14:00
  • 12
    One thing to consider though is that it is possible for an older question to be closed as a duplicate of a newer question or for a question to become a duplicate because another unanswered question finally got answered.
    – Joe W
    Commented Apr 24, 2014 at 17:57
  • 3
    That's not necessarily fair on the answerer if they didn't answer the original question too. In some cases, the context might also be slightly different, so the advice may also be different.
    – Bruno
    Commented Apr 25, 2014 at 13:02
  • +1. If the original question is unanswered and is truly identical, new poster could bounty it or something. Seeing an older question that is the same should be a red flag that more than simply posting the question again is needed to get an answer. Commented Apr 28, 2014 at 17:15
  • Totally agree. It's completely fair. Rep chasers are silly anyway.
    – Fattie
    Commented May 3, 2014 at 15:13
11

API's also change, a question that was answered last year is not necessarily the correct or complete answer now. New questions present the opportunity to re-examine old practices and up voting will allow the new Q/A pair to rise in significance if it is a better answer now.

2
  • 2
    Then someone should probably either Comment on that or answer or at least post a reference to that fact that they found that other answer and question but it didn't apply to my circumstances and here's why, rather than just ignoring the existence of it no?
    – UpAndAdam
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 14:39
  • The comment might be buried under existing highly upvoted comments/answers though.
    – vanowm
    Commented Nov 27, 2021 at 16:06
10

Coming from Rewarding overzealous users for answering duplicate questions is undermining the site which (funny) was just closed as duplicate, I'll drop my 3cents here. Forgive me chaotic form of this text, it's random ideas I find worth sharing.

A discussion has risen about removing points eared from duplicates and about earning points for finding duplicates.

1. Scoring by navigations

My initial thought was to grant some rep to users that successfully marked something as a duplicate. But then, what does this "sucessfully" really mean? The fact of accepting something as a duplicate does not mean it's worth anything. The duplicate must be used as a trampoline to the actual answer or knowledgebase. In my imagination, if users were to earn rep for duplicates, the site would have to track navigations through duplicate links. It can be just as simple as:

  • user searched for something and found a topic called "foo bar baz [duplicate]"
  • he opened it op, read it, and decided it matches his problem
  • he noticed links to the actual response, so he clicked on them to read the probably better part of answers
  • the site noticed he clicked on a "duplicate/seealso" link and navigated him there
  • user views the linked page
  • now if the user upvotes anything, then not only the upvoted answer's or question's author gets the reputation, but also the voters for the DIRECTLY LAST link would get some small points

  • note1: I bet you've seen a post marked as duplicate pointing to a duplicate of a duplicate pointing to finally some answer. SO cannot grant score for all dupe-links visited in such sequence, as it would encourage deliberate "chaining" to earn more points by a single visit. One visitor jumping through many duplicates could then yield X times the same score to the same voters, just because voters decided to make a useless chain. Only the last link should score, as we want to have a "star-like" topology of duplicate links: all should point to the core, not jump around themselves; ensuring that only last link scores will also make sure the voters will try to pick the best duplicate target without additional intermediate duplicate jumps

  • note2: later navigations through the same link "L" by the same user "U" will NOT be additionally scored, because the user "U" already upvoted something in the target post "P", so he can't upvote the thing again. His future navigations through "L" will not score; furthermore, his future navigations to this post "P" through other L1,L2,L3,.. will also not score, since the condition nav-and-upvote is already impossible to achieve because the vote has been already recorder. That's good because the first link he visited was probably the most important, because it was the primary thing that led him to post "P".

This would encourage finding and linking dupes to the most-asked/visited answers, and would therefore strenghen the core point of duplicates. At the same time, it would grant the duplicate-voters some bonus for their work, since once some question is closed as a duplicate, at least it's author will visit that link. Please mind that score would be earned only if the navigating user upvoted anything at the target site. Upvoting does not necessarily mean that he agrees with the decision about the duplicate, but still it means that the link navigated him to something worth reading.

2. Side-by-side duplicate search

After considering that, I got an impression that's important to provide better/quicker tools for marking questions as duplicates.

Current vote&search&picklink is quite fast an easy to use. But still, it could be improved.

One way to provide a something more handy is to pull the process out right onto the first screen. For example, if the "search for duplicate" box were side-by-side to the texteditor for editing answers then:

  • it would remind answerers about looking for dupes
  • it'd need less clicks (when I'm lazy, I'd use it more)
  • it would compete for the writer's attention

The last point is important. Writing short&quick answer to a common question takes some seconds, a minute or three. One or two lines of text plus some code. Writers of such answers are probably perfectly aware that the answer would be quick. With side-by-side searchbox, maybe they'd consider using it instead of writing another answer - because it'd now cost them the same effort.

Another option would be to make it not side-by-side, but maybe place it directly on top of the texteditor area for answers. It would then naturally injected into the "flow" of reading the question and answering it. Now it'd be read, search for dupe, then write answer. Of course it can't be a required step, it'd be just suggested and right-in-the-view. After entering some text in that searchbox, results could be displayed in a quick popup window similar to autocomplete, dismissed by ESC or clicking aside. Oh -- similar to the popup that suggests an already-existing-question when entering the question's title on "ask new question" form.

3. Or better, auto-search integrated with answering

Another thing just occurred to me. Having an extra searchbox is some idea, but it may turn out to be not as ergonomic as it could be. How about having side-by-side just the results of the search, with no actual searchbox. Instead, the duplicate-finder would take text of the answer being written as the search input. That would be something! Add to that earning some rep for successful detection of duplicate, and it might turn out to be first-class answerer's tool, competetive to writing an answer!

Performance might be an issue here, as every single attemp to write an answer would trigger a search, so it might look like an insane idea at first. However, the mechanism could have several thresholds and optimizations, for example:

  • obvious: typical delay between textchange and invoking search
  • try to match words from the answer to tags and use them in duplicate lookup
  • inobvious: don't search until there are at least X words of length at least Y
  • don't search if there are more than X paragraphs/lines (*)
  • ignore code included in the answer except for alphanumeric identifiers longer than X

(*) - an edge case here is very interesting and worth considering: don't search if there's more than 1 line in the answer. This would make the answer's text area behave as a quick duplicate-search-box, with results visible to the left/right of the editor, and the search could be dismissed simply by pressing and ENTER and breaking the line.

Example of use:

  • I've just read the question, whoo, same thing again.. still I'm to lazy to click 'close' or I'm overzealous or I want the REP
  • clicked on textarea to begin writing
  • wrote about three words and search results started showing up, caught my eye, attention to textarea lost for a fraction of second, but I'm still in the "flow of writing"
  • "ach crap, ok I'll make a quick search" [~ I'll still get some rep for a dupe?]
  • I continue to write, all the time in the same line, eyes looking at search results, but instead of elaborating the response, now I'm tossing keywords that fuel the search to see what shows up

  • branch/A: something showed up, damned duplicates, I click on it and vote as duplicate

  • branch/B: no reasonable results, I got bored or irritated, so I simply ignore the results and write the rest of the answer, probably deleting the keywords I just entered, or incorporating them into the answer
7

I don't know how often it happens for others, but evaluating possible duplicates carefully from the mobile version of the website is very hard, while posting a relevant answer can be fairly straightforward. I'm much more likely to blindly post an answer from my phone; while on the desktop I'll pursue "wasn't there something like this the other day?" hunches.

3

Is there anything we can do or should do to discourage answer givers from answering obvious duplicates? Either by loss of rep for the question, or even bans for repeated behavior?

I see your point about lazy questions, and value the overall tidiness of this truly epic site myself, at times wanting to polish my and others contributions even more than the consensus here finds reasonable.

However, I find myself that understanding when questions cover sufficiently overlapping issues is easy when you have lots of experience with a subject, and considerably more challenging when new to the subject. Oddly, it seems even less acceptable to be new to one subject and have a high level in others.

When you feel as if you've been finding out about something non stop, but are still bamboozled with it. When from the point of view of one who is even moderately experienced you haven't found out the first thing about that subject.

Ironically finding information is not a problem when you are experienced and have a good handle on where you are, knowing how to start going about working through an issue, and perplexingly hard to find when you are lost, new to a subject and most need of the information that you are looking for.

For clarity, your sugesting action against an account at all, let alone to the extreme extent of an even tempary ban, for being too helpful.

I would propose instead just keeping the process nice and fluid, for example the search for similar questions as you type the title, it being simple and fast to mark duplicates. And moderate but friendly, non-arrogant non-condescending minor slap on the rep and stearing in a better direction for the people asking the questions. Being mindful of being overly boilerplate, particularly in regard to the help pages.

This site works so amazingly, compared to lets say a typical Youtube channels comments, in part for the efforts of high level contributors who deserve so much respect, even if some users feel answering certain questions is not the best use of their time.

Compare Youtube comments to Reddit, a big difference that makes the Reddit system so much better is that the best contributions can be voted up, and those as useless as "omg lolz first", or in our case strongly overlapping duplicates, or unhelpful questions, can fall below the voting threshold of being visible at all.

1

Often if I find something I suspect of being a duplicate, it is easier and quicker to answer it correctly than to flag it.

My reasoning being that sometimes the flags don't work, due to the big queue. And that I would rather the question get the correct answer than one of these quickies that looks correct but doesn't really add much to the site.

You can actually pick from any of my recent answers, as I've found nothing good to answer recently - https://stackoverflow.com/users/383414/richard-le-mesurier?tab=answers&sort=newest - none of these are particularly good questions or answers, but at least my answers IMHO add some value to the site.

We face a problem here of so much junk, and the junk questions get junk answers, and do not get closed enough. So that leaves a lot of misinformation on the site, which disagrees with me.

So I would rather give a quick (sometimes not so quick) but accurate answer - if the question gets closed at some point, I don't mind if I keep or lose that reputation (that's an issue for another day).

8
  • 9
    By answering these terrible questions you encourage people to continue asking them, rather than encouraging them to do some basic research before asking their questions. This feeds into itself, making the problem continually worse.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:09
  • 1
    @Servy I don't believe these people are going to be persuaded either way. I believe its a case of us sitting on this meta preaching to the choir. (but I also said I was expecting some downvotes on this point of view...) Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:11
  • Sure they will be. If their terrible questions don't ever get answered, they won't bother posting them. Even if they disagree entirely with the policy, heck, even if they aren't aware of any of the policies, if their questions don't get answers, they won't post them.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:31
  • 1
    @Servy I don't believe its the same people over and over. One guy may stop asking, but its the next guy who comes along that still will. I believe its a whole wave of duplicates, due to the growing popularity of this site. We were all noobs once, and some noobs are more nooby than others. Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:33
  • When these questions don't get answered you're correct that it won't entirely eliminate these questions, but it will put in a huge dent. There are people who end up asking dozens and dozens of these types of questions, and lots more that see tons of other similar quality questions with answers, thus encouraging them to ask them. It would make a huge difference in the quality of the site if people incapable of posting good questions only ever posted a few.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:35
  • 1
    @Servy I will be happy to agree to disagree with you. As a member of much higher regard (80K+) I understand you are more qualified to say. I do enjoy that on meta we get to air our minority views. At least I can say that those of us on meta are at least trying to make a difference, that's got to count for something. Thx for your input on my post. Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:47
  • (sorry, but I'd like to add that it is sincere, not sarcasm - If I was just looking to troll, a duplicate user ID would probably be a better idea. Cheers) Commented Apr 30, 2014 at 19:48
  • @Servy has anyone figured out on average of how many duplicates or closed questions a user who has a least one such questions posts? I would think they would get questions banned after a certain point. Maybe more interesting is there a reputation level where the rate starts to decrease? Commented May 1, 2014 at 16:24
0

There's many ways to phrase the same question.

One person says "How to I use Trim() on the string x", another person asks "How do I remove all leading and trailing white-space characters from x."

the answer is identical. It is a duplicate.

Yet someone googling this question could have either phrasing in their head when they search and they won't find the question which phrased it differently to how they did.

It's valuable to have questions phrased differently asking the same question because it's likely that if one person uses a particular phrasing others will as well when searching.

Duplicates seem to offend your sensibilities but trying to punish people for things you see as showing "little regard for the site" isn't very pragmatic or productive.

2
  • 9
    This is the reason duplicates don't get deleted. It's not a rationale for giving reputation to duplicated answers.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Oct 10, 2014 at 22:43
  • "Yet someone googling this question could have either phrasing in their head" - yes, and that person should find the best-quality answers to the question, regardless of which phrasing they chose. Those answers should, therefore, not be split between the two questions, which is what happens when there is no deterrent from answering obvious duplicates. On the off chance that someone sees a duplicate question and has a new answer that isn't a duplicate answer at the existing question, and would be useful to add, it generally should be added to the prior question, not the new one. Commented Sep 20, 2023 at 9:03
-3

To me, yes, if they are BLATANTLY OBVIOUS duplicates. Now who judges what is a BLATANTLY OBVIOUS duplicate in a way where the system is unlikely to be abused?

I have no idea, and that's why I must admit I'm rather against this proposal, not because I disagree with the idea, but because I can't possibly see how any attempt at a solution can't be abused and end up punishing good people.

It should not be up to the answerers to research whether every single question they answer could be a duplicate, thoroughly sweeping the site to make sure there isn't anything that anyone might consider a duplicate.

Even someone who spends 2 hours searching could end up being "wrong" here. I put "wrong" in quotes because, while this might be a controversial thing to say, "duplicate" redirection is often at least partially subjective. There won't always be cases where there is unanimous consent that a question is a duplicate, and redirections can be very misleading. For example, we might find a redirection of "Q: Why isn't my particle simulator working?" to Q: Why does QT segfault on pushing a button?". They might have the same duplicate issue, both accessing a dangling pointer, and maybe even very similar answers for both, but the redirection is extremely confusing to say the least, and hardly the type of thing anyone except someone who knows a boatload of past questions like the back of their hand could possibly expect to be able to find in a search.

Beginner Questions

To me the real problem here is on-topic (not off-topic -- off-topic questions are bad no matter what) beginner troubleshooting questions. Beginner troubleshooting questions from people who haven't even learned how to debug yet are always duplicating the exact same basic issues over and over and over until the end of time. They get answered by the fastest gun in the west over and over and over because they're so routine and easy and quick to answer, not much personal experience required -- just the first person who can use Google or has been programming for more than a year or knows how to use a debugger. A: You're getting a segfault because you're accessing the array out of bounds. A: You used operator= instead of operator==. A: You forgot to put a semicolon here.

It's easier to see what is a BLATANTLY OBVIOUS BEGINNER question. So I think we need some way to discourage these routine beginner questions and routine answers to them. I think it's easier to put the focus and spotlight on the beginner part than duplicate part.

It's why I think the issue is not duplication but actually just that the question is way too basic coming from someone with obviously too little experience to even know how to run a debugger. Way too basic means same basic issue beginners trip over manifesting themselves in hundreds of thousands of questions with MCVEs over and over and over.

Duplicates of intermediate/advanced questions aren't even nearly as bad for the site as beginner questions. Since intermediates and experts don't ask that many questions, and because their questions are often far more interesting than a "fix my code plz or how do I concatenate strings?", if some end up being duplicates, it's not that big of a deal since the answers could be really interesting in both and they're not mass-duplicated. Virtually all beginner questions with an MCVE, however, are mass-duplicating questions for the same basic issue, and their answers are never very interesting ("you need to add a semicolon").

1
  • "Now who judges what is a BLATANTLY OBVIOUS duplicate", first close vote/flag within 10 minutes of the question being asked is one option. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 14:53
-7

Where is the victim? Person A asks a question and person B gives an answer. Person C asks a question and person D gives an answer. Why should we penalise Person C or D just because the questions are similar?

The answer is not to penalise people for asking and answering questions. My suggestion is to make it easier for person C to find person B's answer e.g. on the duplicate question, allow people to link direct to the answer for the original version of the question. Then introduce a feature that if one of those linked answers is accepted as the answer, the question is automatically merged into the original.

Determining that two questions are identical takes time and knowledge too.

4
  • 2
    "Where is the victim?" The site, and its ability to serve as a reference. Persons E, F, G, ... (in some cases, literally millions of people) now face a coin flip as to whether they end up at A's question or C's question, which reduces their chance of seeing the best quality answer. "If one of those linked answers is accepted as the answer, then magic happens and the question is automatically merged into the original." The problem is that there is no such magic. Answers can't simply be merged because they are tailored to different code examples, but are still duplicates. Commented Sep 20, 2023 at 9:06
  • @KarlKnechtel "there is no such magic" - I was suggesting a technical solution. I will update my answer
    – SSS
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 1:20
  • If people keep answering duplicate questions, it would just make it harder and more effort to organize and link them together later. It would be better if people tried to link to existing Q&A's first as their first action. I agree though that searching for existing answers could be improved, and that it would be nice to flag/close as duplicate and link directly to an answer, like in this feature request: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/366716/2745495 Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 2:04
  • I agree with half of this answer. Automatic merging based on an acceptance state makes no sense to me. Not only is it a low quality statistic which is dictated by exactly one person (and pretty much the least authoritative person involved too), but it also does not account for multiple existing answers on both questions. Just doing a flat merge would unceremoniously create a big pile of duplicate answers. It is pretty much automated chaos, only human beings should do merges.
    – Gimby
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 11:21

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