4

I just found this Portuguese question on Stack Overflow (now migrated to PTSO). Probably more will follow.

Should we have a new migration option in the off-topic close reasons to migrate such questions to Stack Overflow Portugues?

4
  • 2
    Beta sites are never migration targets. Flag for moderator attention instead. Commented Feb 2, 2014 at 19:39
  • 4
    You're relying on people to recognise Portuguese then... not that there are many languages that are similar but won't you end up migrating wrong things/hardly anything? I think it'd be better to treat them like programming questions on meta... i.e. here's the site you meant to use; try that instead.
    – Ben
    Commented Feb 2, 2014 at 19:40
  • 5
    I agree with Ben. I don't know Portuguese, and I don't know if that question is actually a good question, so I would probably end up declining any flags for migration.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Feb 2, 2014 at 19:42
  • @animuson: Fair enough. Makes sense.
    – juergen d
    Commented Feb 2, 2014 at 19:43

4 Answers 4

12

My gut feeling is that it's probably a waste of time to migrate these. But if a large number of them are posted on Stack Overflow, it might be worth creating a migration path purely as an educational tool, the same reason we always provide a migration path to Meta.

For now, if you strongly believe a post should be migrated, don't hesitate to flag it for moderator attention and suggest this:

Please migrate to pt.stackoverflow.com

Otherwise, consider just leaving a comment:

Você deve perguntar isso aqui: http://pt.stackoverflow.com

(someone with actual knowledge of Portuguese may want to edit that...)

...then close it as off-topic.

5
  • 1
    Nice. As a user of pt.stackoverflow, I don't oppose to the migration path, if deemed necessary. And the Portuguese version of the comment is perfect, you're a fast learner! Or google translate is getting better :)
    – bfavaretto
    Commented Feb 2, 2014 at 19:57
  • 20
    That's all Google. For all I know, it's a grave insult toward the asker's mother (rather than their father, as I intended).
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 2, 2014 at 19:58
  • 2
    To document this here: The SO moderators standard policy is to reject migration requests for foreign language posts. If we can't understand the language of a post, we can't assess if they are of sufficient quality to migrate. As per the migration FAQ, we don't and won't migrate crap, and we can't determine if a Spanish or Portuguese post is crap or something else. This is essentially also Tim's answer below.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jul 27, 2018 at 12:06
  • FWIW, when I see a post in a language other than English, which I recognize, I go to Google Translate and post a translation in that language that effectively says "We speak English here. Post your question in English or with an English translation, and we'll help you in English". If I know there's a SO for that language, I'll also add "Or, you can post your question on ..." whatever the foreign-language Stack Overflow is, with a link. Commented Apr 9, 2019 at 19:17
  • An example is my comment to stackoverflow.com/questions/55599624/… Commented Apr 9, 2019 at 19:19
7

This would rely on an audience that (predominately) does not speak or read Portuguese. While they might be able to identify a question as being in Portuguese, they certainly can't judge the quality of the question, or if it's on-topic for Portuguese SO.

The best thing to do is leave a comment for the author letting them know that Portuguese SO exists, and leave it at that. We're doing additional things this year so that if your browser is set to a language we support, we do a better job of letting you know a site exists in that language.

A better effort to just build awareness of the international sites is probably the best course to follow, I'll have some more details about that to post next week.

2

No, No, No

For a site to be a valid migration target most people closing questions must be able to tell if the question is a good match for the given site. I don’t even know what Portuguese looks like, so my only option would be close all questions that are not in English as migrate to Portuguese… (After all anything written in Greek is just Portuguese to me.)

Also if the person asking a question is so clueless as to not be able to tell that Stackoverflow is an English site, do you wish to have their questions on your site?

1
  • good point, they should be able to see that the site is English
    – user7627726
    Commented May 16, 2017 at 22:30
-1

I'd like to suggest we do this. Also Russian, now that https://ru.stackoverflow.com/ is out of beta, and other sites in languages other than English.

Yes, normally we don't migrate questions that we can't be sure are suited for the site in question. But in this specific case (pushing a question in the wrong language to the site where it's the right language), I think it's the right thing.

Let's consider the two paths:

Without migration:

  • Vote to close with custom "Você deve perguntar isso aqui: http://pt.stackoverflow.com" reason (or the equivalent in Russian). Takes time and effort by at least the first person to make that comprehensible to the OP, if anyone bothers
  • If the OP understands, they go over to the target site and post the question, probably verbatim
  • If not, they get frustrated

Result: Question posted with same text on the target site (hopefully; just a frustrated potential questioner otherwise). Users closing it on SO had to do (and possibly frequently get wrong) the small-but-not-trivial work to make that comprehensible to the OP.

With migration:

  • Vote to close with appropriate migration target. Auto-generated message show a valid explanation to the user. Less effort, almost certainly a better message.
  • Question is migrated verbatim.

Result: Question posted with same text on the target site. Users closing on SO didn't have to do, and possibly get wrong, the small-but-not-trivial work to make that comprehensible to the OP.

I vote for migration. Less frustration, less effort, higher-quality results.

And if you can't reliably distinguish Portuguese from Spanish or Italian, or Russian from Ukrainian or Belarusian, check first with Google Translate or don't pick the migration option.

13
  • so, in other words, in most cases we'll end up just not picking the migration option and things would continue as they do now.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 16:36
  • @KevinB: I apparently have a higher opinion of people's ability to tell one language from another than you have. :-) Certainly Portuguese vs. Spanish or Italian is really very easy indeed. Granted the cyrillic ones are less so. Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 16:40
  • I mean, it's just extra effort. I can look at several of those languages and know what language it is, but understanding it well enough to know if it's a question good enough to migrate is another story altogether. Yea, i could google translate it, or, i could vote to close...
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 16:42
  • @KevinB: What I'm proposing is less work, not more. I must have been unclear: Don't try to understand it, that would indeed be extra work and Google Translate can't really help (it's just not good enough). Just migrate it to a place where people will understand it, because it's going to go there anyway; then they can deal with it as appropriate. How could I change my second paragraph to make that clearer? Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 16:43
  • 1
    1) On SE we don't migrate crap. it's been shown time and again to cause lots of problems when sites just blindly migrate crap questions to other sites, particularly when that site is SO and the target sites are smaller sites. 2) Are there really so many questions needing to be migrated to those sites that they belong in one of the 5 migration paths? If you're going to suggest putting these two in, which do are you proposing be removed, and why do you feel that these two sites would result in more better migrations as a result? Note that there are 0 migrations to pt.so in the past 90 days.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:02
  • @Servy: 1) I believe migrating to an equivalent other-language site is a fundamentally different thing than the things that there have been issues with in the past. 2) I run into them regularly and am always frustrated by how long it takes to handle them kindly. 3) Nothing. Just make the dialog work with more options, there's plenty of room there. Re zero migrations: Right. Because flagging and asking a mod to do it is tiresome and no one bothers. Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:03
  • @T.J.Crowder That proposal has been rejected many times. SE has said that they aren't going to have more than 5 migration targets, both because sites don't ever have a history of having more than 5 good migration targets, and also that the more targets there are the more confusion it creates for those voting to close. It's not about space in the UI. Again, there's a grand total of 1 migrated question between both of these two sites in the past 90 days; clearly there's not enough here to merit a dedicated migration target. As for migrating crap, I fail to see how this is different.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:06
  • @T.J.Crowder the issue is I know what Cyrillic looks like, but I can't tell one from the other. How do you know that the cyrillic language you are migrating is actually Russia? I get that a responsible user could check the language with a translation site first, but doesn't mean it will be accurate, or that it won't get abused by irresponsible users. I tend to think it would be abused - otherwise we'd have more migration options (like to the site formally known as Programmers.SE) Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:07
  • @psubsee2003: Please read the end of the answer, I addressed that. Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:07
  • @T.J.Crowder read the end of my comment, I addressed that Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:08
  • 1
    @Servy: Well, we just disagree. As of "not more than five," that's a mechanical problem easily solved. A "wrong language" choice on the page of the dialog, etc. Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:09
  • @psubsee2003: I did. So we just disagree about that. Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 17:09
  • 1
    We shouldn't migrate stuff whose quality we can say nothing about. I'd say when a person posts something in Portuguese to a site that is clearly exclusively English, you can probably infer a pretty reliable prediction as to the question's quality from that fact alone
    – Pekka
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 19:18

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .