167
votes

The Overhauling our community's closure reasons and guidance project started back in April 2022. We've successfully merged the old Super User and Server Fault close reasons. This new "Not about programming" close reason has significantly decreased the number of custom close reasons users are using. It has also consistently been the second most used community-specific close reasons (after Needs debugging details) since it was activated.


Since, we now have an open slot for a new close reason and have had some time for the new reason to be integrated into the site. I propose we create a dedicated close reason for content that is not written in English.

A "Not in English" close reason is both:

  1. one of the suggestions in the top scoring answer on the initial discussion, and
  2. the largest remaining category of custom close vote reasons (by a lot)
Questions closed Comment
164 This question is not written in English, and therefore does not meet the minimum requirements for Stack Overflow. All posts on this site are required to be in English.
15 I’m voting to close this question because it is not English.
12 Questions On Stack Overflow Must be in English
11 I’m voting to close this question because it's not in English.
9 I’m voting to close this question because it's not written in English
6 I’m voting to close this question because it is not in English.
5 I’m voting to close this question because it is not in English
3 This site is for questions in English only.
3 I’m voting to close this question because it is not written in English.
2 I’m voting to close this question because questions on SO must be in English
2 I’m voting to close this question because it's not in English
2 I’m voting to close this question because it’s not in English.
2 I’m voting to close this question because it is not written in English. Do posts have to be in English on Stack Exchange?
2 I’m voting to close this question because it’s not in english.
2 I’m voting to close this question because it's not in english
1 Welcome to StackOverflow! StackOverflow is an English-only site. If possible, please repost your question in English.
1 Welcome to StackOverflow! StackOverflow is an English-only site. Please repost your question in English if possible.
1 (in French) you should post your questions in English
1 This site is English only. Please use https://es.stackoverflow.com/
1 (in Spanish) StackOverflow is an English-only forum.
1 SO is English only. Please, post question in that language.
1 Please, be aware that StackOverflow is an English-only website. And there are no French version
1 Please, ask only question in English on SO.
1 Only questions in English are accepted on StackOverflow. Please, if you can, translate your question, as it is not advised that someone else does (if you can't, you probably can't read this comment neither. But from my years in Germany, I am pretty confident that you can).
1 Not written in english language
1 I'm voting to close this question because Stack Overflow is an English-only site. Please translate your question to English, or ask on the Spanish-language site [es.so]
1 I'm voting to close this question because Stack Overflow is an English-only site. Please translate your question to English, or ask on the Russian-language site [ru.so]
1 I'm voting to close this question because it is not English.

Total votes from this table 246 out of 378 possible (the data that lists all custom reasons used). This represents 65.08% of the custom close reason over the last 30 days as of 9th of December 2022. Here is a screenshot of the full table of custom close reasons over the last 30 days for review.

This is certainly an under-representative sample of the number of non-English questions asked, since many users use the "Needs details or clarity reason" to close non-English posts (inline with our current guidance on how to deal with non-English content).


Reminder that there are 5 fields that need to be set for this new combined reason; each have a 500-character limit excluding the first which has a 100-character limit (from Catjia's answer to Should we update/clarify our help center with respect to other sites and teams?):

  1. Brief description (100 characters but should be just a few words) - this is the Bold part of the close reason that appears in the close vote UI when closers are voting to close the post.
  2. Usage guidance - this tells close voters when to use this close reason. It should clarify any edge cases and help voters feel certain they're choosing the correct reason.
  3. Post notice close description - visible to all users. This is a general note about why the question was closed. It can include links to resources that explain the site's policy. It should always start and end with the same thing "This question was closed because it is ... It is not currently accepting answers."
  4. Post owner guidance - this additional information appears in the post notice but only for the asker of the question. It should contain detailed information about how they can improve their post (if possible) and may also include links to help here on meta or in the help center.
  5. Public guidance - this additional information appears in the post notice for all other users. It is designed to help them know how to guide the asker in improving their question or inform them when the question should be reopened.

As a reminder, you can review our current closure reasons and their values with this SEDE query.

I would like to ask the community to propose options for complete guidance on our new closure reason. Then have the highest scoring answer converted into the new closure reason.

Note: this is a proposal for a close reason, not a general flag. For this reason proposal only applies to questions not answers.

13
  • 3
    Community specific close reasons can be used in the Staging Ground. So it would still have benefit whether the question is closed in SG or on the main site.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 2:03
  • 2
    I agree with this, but I think it would be better to have this as a network-wide close reason. Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 15:24
  • @DonaldDuck Except it won't apply to quite a few other sites. Also I suspect that other sites suffers less from the same problem (influx of questions in wrong languages).
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 10:02
  • 3
    @iBug According to meta.stackexchange.com/a/13684/349538, all sites have some language requirement. The sites that allow another language in addition to English could have that close reason instead say "Not in English or (language)", and the sites that are completely in another language could translate "Not in English" to "Not in (language)". Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 11:06
  • 15
    Adding a community-specific reason to Stack Overflow requires 2 mods (or 1 CM). A network-wide reason is a bigger task. Adding a network-wide reason requires a developer and adding translations into at least 4 languages in transifex. Finding wording that will work for all sites is also a much bigger undertaking. However, if this reason is implemented on Stack Overflow and is successful, it could help support the value of having one on other sites, which could make this a first step towards a network-wide if someone wanted to go through the process on MSE.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 14:44
  • 4
    If there's a desire for a network-wide equivalent reason, an FR for that should be posted (separately) on MSE Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 14:49
  • One of the reason I don't often participate in review process is that, it's frustrating to find a relavent report/close reason to the question. This one included!
    – Enfield Li
    Commented Dec 15, 2022 at 0:53
  • 1
    The biggest concern I have with this is that the intended target audience (e.g. the OP who is asking in a non-English language) will be presented with a close reason in verbiage they may not understand. This is a distant relative to the reason why we discourage people from translating questions into English in that the OP may not be able to answer questions in English or respond accordingly.
    – Makoto
    Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 19:22
  • Most of the time lately that I go to close a question for the custom reason "Not in English" others are marking it as "unclear". So there are MORE of these than you stats probably show
    – Dexygen
    Commented Dec 19, 2022 at 15:58
  • See comment immediately above stackoverflow.com/questions/74894531/…
    – Dexygen
    Commented Dec 22, 2022 at 22:41
  • 1
    Yes. The lack of statistics regarding the number of Non-English posts is definitely something that is notable. Needs Details or Clarity is the current guidance for how to deal with non-English questions, and while this is easier and quicker than a custom reason it does make it difficult to track how many of these posts are post on Stack Overflow.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 23, 2022 at 3:02
  • Can we expedite this? The volume of non-English questions would be a lot greater than the custom close reasons counted here as most just use the generic "unclear" reason.
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 23, 2022 at 7:44
  • @Makoto: you're right: when I see a question, asked in another language, like French, German, Spanish or Portuguese, then I try to explain in that language what's wrong. If a specific reason will be implemented, will this have the opportunity to explain to the author in this own language? (So when we want to close a question for being in French, will we have the possibility to check the "French" checkbox in order to have the explanation in that language?)
    – Dominique
    Commented Jan 13, 2023 at 14:41

6 Answers 6

85
votes

Due to an abundance of feedback, it appears that this community is largely in favour of offering the non-English Stack Overflow sites as an option. In large part to provide some direction even if the asker does not understand anything else in the close dialogue, they'll at least be able to recognise their own language and hopefully end up in the right place.


Proposed Text

Field (Mostly Rendered) Markdown Markdown Length
Brief Description Not written in English 22
Usage guidance Use this close reason if the question is not written in English. Do not use this close reason for questions that are primarily written in English but happen to contain non-English variable names, error messages, or other short excerpts. 269
Post notice close description Closed. This question is not written in English. It is not currently accepting answers. 122
Post owner guidance $SiteName is an English-only site. If you are confident that you will be able to understand and respond to answers and comments in English, please edit your question to rewrite it in English. Otherwise, you may be able to find a $SiteName site in your native language. 354
Public user guidance $SiteName is an English-only site. The author must be able to communicate in English to understand and engage with any comments and/or answers their question receives. Don't translate this post for the author; machine translations can be inaccurate, and even human translations can alter the intended meaning of the post. 395

Mock UI elements

The close dialogue would look something like: Close dialogue with the new "Not in English" close reason as the last option.

Post Owners would see the following message: Post owner guidance rendered in a post notice

Privileged Users would see the following: Public user guidance rendered in a post notice. Close voter information is visible.

Anonymous Users and users with less than 3000 reputation would see the following: Public user guidance rendered in a post notice.

17
  • The Post owner guidance message is already pretty long, but maybe it could be worthwhile to include part of what How to Ask says: "If you're not comfortable writing in English, ask someone to proofread it for you.". Or maybe it should say "ask a friend"? (to prevent a misunderstanding that its recommending to ask in the question post for an SO user to help proofread?) Or as long as one of the already-linked resources says that then that also works. I'm actually not sure how valuable it would be to say this... sorry for rambling.
    – starball
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 8:42
  • 8
    The problem with that, @starball , is that its all well and good someone else proof reading their post, but what about the comments/answers they get in response that are in English? Do you know that they would be able to understand those answers? How would they respond to those comments/answers if they don't understand them or the answer isn't quite what they are after? They can't ask for a friend to proofread and translate everything. The asker needs to be reasonably literate in English, both in reading and writing, to be able to actually use the site.
    – Thom A
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 14:42
  • 7
    I'm on the fence about not mentioning the language-specific SO sites. We definitely should not migrate questions, especially when moderators don't speak said language. But directing them there is a way of being helpful. I'll post the SOCVR stock closure comment (which I use frequently for this) below
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 15:36
  • 24
    Please write your question in English, as Stack Overflow is an English only site.. There are other versions of Stack Overflow in Português, Español, русский, and 日本語.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 15:36
  • 5
    Ryan's already asked the language specific site mods and proposed an option that includes mentioning them. We can definitely make the change and I will if those sites want to get referrals. I don't want to create another situation (like the old SU and SF close reasons) where we flood their sites with a bunch of poor referrals that later needs to be cleaned up without at least getting input from those communities first. @Machavity
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 15:40
  • I'm not sure it's reasonable a post not being in English with it being low quality. Non-English posts that I have come across don't seem to be especially bad, just not written in English. Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 19:27
  • 6
    I'm not conflating all "not in English" questions with "low quality" questions (which is I think what you were trying to say (there's a word missing)) @snakecharmerb My point is: if we direct 100% of non-English posts to a different site at least some of those questions will be low quality/off-topic/etc. The statement is just as a general network-wide rule (or perhaps courtesy is a more accurate term) we do not send a bunch of users and questions to a site which may not want the referral and/or may not be able to handle the influx.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 19:41
  • 8
    The actual guidance text doesn't mention post quality at all. The only reason that's mentioned in this answer was to explain the rationale for not mentioning the 4 language-specific Stack Overflow sites. Which is: it's not possible to accurately assess the quality of the post if you do not understand the language it is written in, so let's not send everything somewhere else. All that said, if those sites want all the referrals then it's a non-issue. That part can be removed from this answer and links to the various sites added to the close reason.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 19:43
  • 5
    I understand and agree about not directing to the other language sites, but I think at least a mention of their existence is in place. Users that post non-English on SO may be delighted to know there is a site for their native language. Of course, it is still up to them to read the FAQ and post accordingly. I suggest to add some small mention like: "See the list of other non-English SO versions". This doesn't direct users, but letting them know
    – Tomerikoo
    Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 10:03
  • 1
    Also, I would add "Primarily not in English" to the brief description to (try and) avoid it being used for a few strings in the code not being in English
    – Tomerikoo
    Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 10:13
  • 4
    I disagree with not mentioning the existence of the other language sites. Not because I don't think your reasons are valid (they are) but because those are to me outweighed by the potential to be helpful to users who could benefit from those sites. SO already has a reputation (deserved or not) for being unwelcoming and unhelpful, let's not pour gasoline on that burning bridge. We definitely don't need to auto-migrate them though. Commented Dec 15, 2022 at 17:53
  • 3
    Can we create some sort of landing page that links to all (currently 4) non-English SO pages, so we can include one link instead of 4 in the text?
    – M. Justin
    Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 18:40
  • 1
    I have noticed that the big majority of posts in the wrong language are either in Spanish, Portuguese or Russian. I think the main reason/culprit is the existence of those other sites, as in people posting on the wrong site by mistake. For example, if we look at how many SO users that have Spanish vs Hindi as their native language, they are each around 10% of the total user base, but we almost see no questions in Hindi and a whole lot of them in Spanish.
    – Lundin
    Commented Dec 22, 2022 at 15:32
  • 2
    ...so my cynical solution would be to close those other language sites. Then we get less junk on SO and we'll be doing the people using those sites a favous, since they need to learn English anyway, the sooner the better.
    – Lundin
    Commented Dec 22, 2022 at 15:33
  • 4
    @MichaelM. We'll discuss it with the CMs (when the holidays are over) and assuming everything is alright we can move forward with adding the new close reason. When it is activated this post on MSO will be marked as status-completed and the reason will appear in the flag/close dialogues. Hopefully this happens in the next few weeks.
    – Henry Ecker Mod
    Commented Dec 29, 2022 at 5:30
9
votes

I have a set of 4 scripts, one for each of the Japanese, Portuguese, Russian and Spanish SO sites, which generate a standard message.

Japanese:

Welcome to Stack Overflow. Please read the [About] and [Ask] pages. If you wish to ask questions in Japanese, please ask on スタック・オーバーフロー 熱狂的でプロフェッショナルなプログラマーのためのQ&A. Otherwise, please ask in English. Consider whether Google Translate can help.

Russian:

Welcome to Stack Overflow. Please read the [About] and [Ask] pages. If you wish to ask questions in Russian, please ask on Stack Overflow на русском. Otherwise, please ask in English. Consider whether Google Translate can help.

Spanish:

Welcome to Stack Overflow. Please read the [About] and [Ask] pages. If you wish to ask questions in Spanish, please ask on Stack Overflow en español. Otherwise, please ask in English. Consider whether Google Translate can help.

Portuguese:

Welcome to Stack Overflow. Please read the [About] and [Ask] pages. If you wish to ask questions in Portuguese, please ask on Stack Overflow em Português. Otherwise, please ask in English. Consider whether Google Translate can help.

As they are pasted into comments, the [About] and [Ask] notations are expanded automatically to [About](https://stackoverflow.com/tour) (About) and [How to Ask](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/how-to-ask) (How to Ask).

As you can see, there is a lot of commonality between the scripts. Since it is almost invariably a first-time user who posts in a language other than English, the welcome and general direction helps the user.

If the question is posted in another language than these four, I omit the "If you wish" and "Otherwise" sentences. I usually identify the language via Google Translate and name it — along the lines of "Questions on SO should be written in English — please do not ask questions written in Vietnamese" or whatever language it is.

This is not a recommendation for anyone other than the OP to consider using Google Translate on the question where I add the comment — other people should not translate the question for the OP. It is also not a migration request; the OP is expected to write the question on the appropriate site. And they're expected to make their question meet standards. Sometimes, when it is clear that the question needs work before it could be asked reasonably on SO, I'll point out that it needs that work.

7
  • 3
    Excuse me but I'm not quite getting the point of this answer. Are you suggesting linking [about] and [ask] in some of the close reason fields, some other ways to improve the proposal, or just sharing your pro-tem modus operandi?
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 18:11
  • 3
    Mostly sharing my modus operandi — and thinking that for people who have asked a question in the wrong language, it at least makes them feel a little welcome even though they've goofed in asking the question as they have. And, if they've written the question in a language other than English, they've clearly not read and understood the About and How to Ask pages. I think that welcoming people is a good thing (or, at least, not a bad thing). This is meant to be food for thought. I think we should be able to redirect the OP to the right site for the language when there is such a site. Commented Dec 11, 2022 at 18:17
  • I do similar but I use google translate to translate the text into the language For Spanish (e.g.) your text is: Bienvenido a Stack Overflow. Lea las páginas [Acerca de] y [Preguntar]. Si desea hacer preguntas en español, por favor pregunte en Stack Overflow en español. De lo contrario, por favor pregunte en inglés. Considere si Google Translate puede ayudar. Commented Dec 13, 2022 at 23:11
  • 1
    In fact, for the Japanese version, スタック・オーバーフロー would suffice. The rest means "Q&A for enthusiastic professional programmers". If you want to have "Stack Overflow in Japanese", that'll be スタック・オーバーフロー日本語版 or 日本語のスタック・オーバーフロー
    – Nicholas
    Commented Dec 14, 2022 at 23:39
  • @Nicholas — Thank you for the information. Commented Dec 15, 2022 at 1:03
  • 8
    Recommending machine translation, like Google Translate, without very strong qualification is not a good idea. Machine translation often makes an incomprehensible mess. E.g., minimal-effort users will not bother to check whether the result makes sense or not. Commented Dec 17, 2022 at 12:00
  • 2
    @PeterMortensen just run the results of Google Translate through ChatGPT, it'll be fine. Oh, wait... ;) Commented Dec 19, 2022 at 22:17
3
votes

Redirecting people to other language sites was seen as a bad idea for these reasons: (I'm paraphrasing other answers here and comments in this discussion)

  • You can't always tell what language a post is written in, if you are unfamiliar with the language.
  • Not every language has a SO site, so there would be a need for different messages depending on if the site exists or not.
  • And (although I don't fully agree with this one) it would move low-quality content to other sites, which they might not appreciate Link

However, telling them nothing is also unhelpful. OP won't know where to go next and is likely to keep spamming low quality posts till they find a place where they can actually read and undestand the rules.

For this reason I suggest linking to https://stackexchange.com/sites with a message like:

There exist other sites in the stack exchange network that may be available in your language. Check out the full list

This would also be more neutral towards people if no site exists in their language. Even if their primary language isn't available they might be able to find some other language they are more familiar with.

This also avoids moving low-quality answers to other sites, since at least a little effort is required to figure out the right site to post in and then post there. Usually requiring just the tiniest bit of effort is enough to weed out the laziest low-quality posters.

Ideally, like Justin M suggested, there would be some kind of landing page that lists the 4 other language sites in a more consise format than the all sites page.

5
  • It would move low-quality content to other sites, which they might not appreciate Huh? We're talking about less than 5 questions max per day.
    – Jim G.
    Commented Dec 19, 2022 at 15:48
  • I'm just paraphrasing other answers in my first 3 points. I don't necessarily agree with them. This specific point if in the beginning of meta.stackoverflow.com/a/422035/6333444 Commented Dec 19, 2022 at 15:50
  • Cool. I just modified your post to make it clear that you're just regurgitating someone else's comment.
    – Jim G.
    Commented Dec 19, 2022 at 15:52
  • 2
    You edited my post to say I disagree with that opinion. I don't disagree, I just only partially agree. I'm unsure how to phrase this. Commented Dec 19, 2022 at 17:08
  • 1
    I mentioned it above, but it's event more applicable to this suggestion: Can we create some sort of landing page that links to all (currently 4) non-English SO pages, so we can include one link instead of 4 in the text?
    – M. Justin
    Commented Dec 20, 2022 at 20:04
-2
votes

If this close reason is added, will there be an option to indicate which non-English site on which the question should be asked?

For example, if the question is written in Spanish, would the close reason mention the Stack Overflow en español site, and repeat the message in Spanish (which would probably be more helpful)?

-18
votes

I think, all the proposals are bad. If there is a specific language-specific SO site (like https://es.stackoverflow.com) that should be mentioned in the close reason.

Beside that, non-English posts should be moved to this site. Only closing the post, without giving the OP at least a hint, where to continue, is against the obvious interests of the community.

2
  • 2
    This site is limited to only a handful of custom close reasons. There just aren't enough to have a separate close reason for each language. I agree that linking to the sites in other languages would be a better user experience for people whose questions are closed because of this. Commented Dec 17, 2022 at 13:50
  • @StephenOstermiller While you are factually right, I would be really surprised if any owner / investor would find it an acceptable explanation of the activity stats.
    – peterh
    Commented Dec 18, 2022 at 6:14
-25
votes

I don't think we need a new close reason. I've always voted to close non-English questions as "Needs details or clarity", which is completely accurate. I also leave a comment linking to the "English only" FAQ entry, and if there is a non-English SO site for that language, I link to it as well. I don't make any judgments about the quality of the question, because most of the time I can't read it. I don't flag for migration, again because I usually can't judge the question's quality.

FWIW, here's my canned comment in Markdown:

Welcome to Stack Overflow. This is an [English-only](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/297680) site. Please either translate your question to English, or delete it and post it on [pt/ru/es/ja.so].

4
  • 42
    While "Needs details of clarity" is acceptable, it isn't great, because it always requires someone to post a canned comment just like yours to tell the OP what the problem actually is. Close reasons work best when they provide direct guidance about how to fix a post.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Dec 10, 2022 at 22:11
  • 3
    There's also the issue of this site consistently getting questions not in English, for which it makes sense to make another close reason for them. It's in a similar vein as why we have an explicit close reason for product recommendation questions, even though the Opinion-based close reason does also technically apply to them. I'd suggest reading this post and the original announcement on that site about the 2013 close reason revamp (from the old "not constructive" etc. reasons).
    – gparyani
    Commented Dec 13, 2022 at 11:01
  • 1
    Hey, I'll steal that canned comment of yours if you don't mind :) but I don't really agree with your answer. Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 11:43
  • 5
    @Stranger that's why I posted it. Steal away!
    – MattDMo
    Commented Dec 16, 2022 at 17:34

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