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I just went to review suggested edits and found my set of rejection criteria reduced to the following:

  • copied content
  • invalid edit
  • radical change
  • vandalism
  • custom

I assume the disappearance of "too minor" is deliberate policy -- either the option was removed entirely or perhaps it was set to a rep threshold higher than mine. Is there a discussion somewhere that would summarize the debate and explain the rationale for the change?

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    Wow, that's extraordinary. Nice if you work for SE, you can get the most annoying complaining eliminated easily. Gilles never disappoints. Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 23:18
  • 5
    What does Gilles have to do with this? I don't see a diamond next to his name.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 23:59
  • 2
    Related: meta.stackexchange.com/q/239106
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:33
  • 6
    Related (Shog9's solution for people rejecting too minor) meta.stackexchange.com/a/238039/213963 --- "Get rid of the "too minor" reject reason entirely. If it's really too minor, reviewers should demonstrate that by providing a not-minor edit. If the reviewer opts to build upon the edit instead of starting over from the current revision, then it isn't too minor!"
    – user289086
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 1:17
  • 4
    @MichaelT Nah, they should just say "Other" and write "too minor". I'd like to see stats on the number of times each choice is used, but I'm willing to bet that "Too Minor" was near the top.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:32
  • 6
    @RobertHarvey Hans was commenting on the fact that Gilles was a particularly vocal advocate for the "encouraging lots of pointless edits" bandcamp. He's expressing his disappointment that the section of the community supporting his viewpoint, that insubstantial edits that aren't adding value should be rejected, has not been valued merely because it has not complained as loudly. At least, that's what it sounds like to me.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:26
  • @TylerH: That's a really good way to have the Custom option taken away.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:28
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey do it if you think it's an improvement; see what the community thinks. Who is in charge of the direction of the site? The community or the moderators/site owners?
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:31
  • @TylerH: I have no authority over the software whatsoever, so your retort makes no sense. It's SE's sandbox, so draw your own conclusions.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:39
  • 15
    @RobertHarvey Sorry: it wasn't a retort, but an actual suggestion. My guess is, if the Custom option gets abused as a catch-all (isn't that what it's for?) and ends up being removed, then users will start selecting "Invalid Edit" as their catch-all. Cat-and-mouse. The "Too minor" option was specific, valid, and useful. It only makes sense that people will find another tool to fill the need.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:40
  • According to "What guidance should be given when edits are rejected?", 'too minor' was indeed the most-used reason, @TylerH.
    – jscs
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 18:12

5 Answers 5

0

The relevant discussion can be found here: Approve as too minor

The big problem with "too minor" is... No one agreed on what it meant. Totally pointless? Useful but with some work left undone? Under X characters, where X is between 6 and 600? After many years of mostly-fruitless discussion toward resolving this, I decided "can be blithely discarded in favor of a better edit" makes as much sense as anything - so, that's now baked into the UI: if you use the "Reject and Edit" review option, your edit will replace the edit you're reviewing, rejecting it in the process:

The results look like this:

That rejection reason is the replacement for "too minor", clarifying it according to the criteria outlined above. It is usable only by Community, and only triggered by "Reject and Edit" reviews.

The rest of the canned rejection reasons could use some love too... If you have suggestions, drop them here: What guidance should be given when edits are rejected?

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    Makes sense, but if you go removing all of the features that people don't agree on what they mean, there won't be much of anything left.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 4:50
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    So if a post is kind of flawless except for a tiny spelling mistake and correcting this is a suggested edit then since there isn't really anything one could add, it should be accepted? Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 8:21
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    @Trilarion Of course. Correcting spelling errors improves the post. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 12:26
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    If a post is truly flawless... save for one flaw... that an edit corrects... Then hell yeah you should approve that edit, @Trilarion.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:46
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    @Shog9 If we can't get people to reject those edits when there's an actual system defined reason for it, what makes you think you'll actually get 3 reviewers to reject the edit using a custom reason? The edit shouldn't be skipped, it should be rejected. If the reviewer conclusively knows that it should be rejected and why they should be able to reject the post, they shouldn't be skipping it. None of the reviewers should be obligated to put in the rather large investment in time to completely fix up a train wreak of a post just to reject an equally terrible edit.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:30
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    @Shog9 Since the only practical option you've left available is to approve the edits, that's what you'll get. And with no practical way of rejecting edits for being minor, you'll remove any incentive for editors to make substantial edits. I mean why spend 20 minutes actually fixing a post when you could just remove the "thanks" instead and get the same +2 rep.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:32
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    I'd also like to take a second to point out that if we remove the rep incentive to post bad/minor edits, so that the people actually editing posts will be primarily people with an actual intrinsic motivation to improve the posts, can at least ensure that a lot of people aren't submitting these edits, even if we can't reject them.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 21:00
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    The first order effect of this change should be "when an edit is reviewed, it is more likely to be approved than before", as it discourages rejecting an edit. The second order effect is it should discourage people who used to reject "too minor" edits from reviewing, magnifying the first order effects. Assuming the designer of the change intended these effects, the position is "we want more minor edits to be approved, there was too much rejection of them under the pre-existing system". Is that accurate? Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 23:33
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    Not really, @Yakk - more along the lines of, "we want reviewers to feel strongly about decisions that are made". The problem with a vague rejection reason is that it becomes a path of least resistance - approving edits has always been the easiest review action, but rejecting with a vague reason is a close second. If you're gonna reject, you should have a good reason for it - and with these changes, if you're willing to back that up with an edit you're practically guaranteed it will take effect.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 23:37
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    @shog9 If you want to make people think harder, removing the path of 2nd least resistance is a bad plan. That'll reduce the robo-rejectors (which ... again, I assume they exist? The quality of edit that actually gets a rejection is so low in my experience that I'm wondering...), but increase the robo-acceptors (some of the lazy rejectors will just say "meh, I'll just accept"). Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 23:40
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    Again, "accept" is already the easiest review, @Yakk. If you're out to blow through a review as quickly as possible with no other considerations, then you're not even noticing an option to reject is missing... If you do care, even a little bit, then you have some new options, with more coming - but they do actually require you to think.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 23:46
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    @Shog9 But that's just it. As a reviewer I can spend the time, think through the proper course of action, determine that a review is completely pointless and not adding value, but I can no longer reject the review for that reason, even after spending that time to determine that it's not adding value. You didn't edit the wording of "too minor" to make it less vague and give it stricter guidelines that require more evidence, you removed the reason entirely, preventing posts from being rejected for that reason.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 14:13
  • 2
    @Servy ...which just goes to show that people don't actually believe in such rejects but as just being shoehorned into it. If the masses really thought as ypu do then they would follow your rejections regardless. Don't try to grab control over the mindless reviewdrones for your own ends please! Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 21:30
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    This points to a systemic problem with review, which I put firmly at the feet of too many bad canned rejection reasons - so the solution is to fix that. @Servy
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 23:16
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    You two are just noisying up this comment thread now... If you really want to hash out something useful, hop into chat.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 11, 2014 at 15:25
65

I used "Too minor" tag to get rid of superficial edits that were done just to grab +2 rep. For me it was a synonym of an unnecessary edit.

What now? Use "Reject and edit" and possibly do minor changes ourselves just to restrain repo hunters?

It does not seem like a good idea at all.

Part 2

It was suggested in comments to use "invalid edit" instead.

Its definition seems to be:

This edit is incorrect or an attempt to reply to or comment on the existing post.

If someone deletes "Thank you" at the bottom of a post and does nothing else, I consider such edit unnecessary (not needed) and, in fact, minor.

The edit I just described is not incorrect (we don't really like any non-informative content), it's definitely neither a reply nor a comment.

It's just an insignificant, and therefore unnecessary, edit that needs to be rejected. Too minor reason fit in such cases like a glove. Invalid edit? I do not think so.

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    Too Minor suggests that the edit should be "substantial, addressing multiple issues in the post." If you are rejecting edits that don't meet that metric, but then failing to make the substantial edit yourself, isn't that kinda the pot calling the kettle black?
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:03
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    @RobertHarvey That's a fallacious argument. An edit reviewer isn't obliged to make any edits himself at all. You don't have to lay an egg to be able to spot a rotten one.
    – user207421
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:07
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    @RobertHarvey: What about a post that simply didn't need editing in the first place, and somebody did a trivial edit apparently to gain rep, with no improvement to the post at all? Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:07
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    @RobertHarvey : I believe you missed my point. I'm talking about cases when the post was basically OK "as is" and the edits that are not needed since they don't really improve anything.
    – PM 77-1
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:08
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    @RobertHarvey No, it's called "I want to review edits, not make them". If I wanted to make edits I could open any arbitrary page and edit away.
    – orlp
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:08
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    Discussion moved here: meta.stackexchange.com/q/239106
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:32
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    Rejecting an edit that removes "Thank you" is absurd. We do not want people to write "thank you" at the bottom of posts, therefore by our quality metric an edit that removes that text improves the post. Why do you not want to improve the post? Utterly absurd. It seems that you're just out to punish people for being "lazy" and not changing more about the post. But, hey, not every post has more than that to fix. And if it does? Well, great, you or someone else can fix that later. But that's no reason not to make the immediate improvement. No reason at all. It's also not your job to "punish". Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:38
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    I don't think it really matters if someone makes minor edits and gains 2 rep if there's really nothing else that could be done with the post. Eventually they'll hit 2k rep and they're doing things that we recommend doing anyways, like removing "thanks" or fixing a spelling error. It's not like the suggested edits queue is inundated anyways.
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:44
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    @nightcracker if there are other issues in the post, and you don't want to fix them as part of reviewing and editing, you could click 'skip'.
    – user289086
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 2:03
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    We need a new reject reason to replace "too minor" - "unnecessary" - the edit doesn't address or fix anything at all.
    – slebetman
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 2:52
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    @slebetman there is still a custom field.
    – user289086
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 3:31
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    Some of the ones I used to keep rejecting is to respell words in American English. It used to be agreed that all forms of English spelling are acceptable here but some people just can't resist.
    – slebetman
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 3:37
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    Before the "too minor" reason was removed, I already tried to improve minor edits. Unfortunately it was very common that while I was improving a minor edit, the edit had already been approved by other people, so that I couldn't apply my edit. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 9:11
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit If the post is still completely unreadable, unanswerable, and has no value even after the edit then no, the edit didn't add value. Do you go around cleaning up a building that's set for demolition later that day? If you answer no, does that mean you're arguing against ever cleaning buildings and asserting that cleanliness isn't important? No.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 15:06
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit You saying that you dismissed the comments because you considered them is the very definition of dismissing them because you say you're right. The fact that you thought about what your opinion should be before asserting that your personal opinion is objective fact that you are right doesn't mean that you provided evidence, that is not a reasoned argument, and it is not a supporting point for your position. It's just you saying your right and nothing else. If you explained what you considered, why you considered those points, etc. then that would be an argument.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 11, 2014 at 15:01
16

I think this is fantastic. This notion that "you must fix most/all of a post's problems, or none at all" is totally ridiculous, and we can still reject edits that literally do not improve a post (i.e. rep grabbers doing no good) using "invalid edit" and such. Rep grabbers doing good should get the rep they deserve regardless of their intentions: offering rep for edits then saying that people should have edits rejected simply because their motivation is gaining rep, is just absurd.

However I think it's also important to clarify that, personally, I would neither expect nor require reviewers to start manually fixing the rest of the post's problems when they encounter an edit that only resolves some of those problems. There is no rule that says that people who give their time reviewing edits must now also give their time to make edits. Let's just keep it simple: does the edit improve the post? Yes? Accept it. Feel free to improve on it, but you certainly don't have to. Another editor will be along soon enough to finish off the job, and I'm quite sure that the SO database can handle there existing two revisions rather than one.

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    What if the edit improves a post so insignificantly that it's indeed too minor?
    – PM 77-1
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 0:50
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    To use your example, an edit that does nothing but remove, "Thank you", but leaves blantantly obvious spelling and grammar mistakes is the epitome of too minor. It's grabbing the low hanging fruit, for no other reason than rep. At what point should a rejection require a reviewer's own input? Just because you know the edit should be rejected doesn't mean you know how to go about improving it.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 1:35
  • Did you mean "I would not expect nor require reviewers to" ?
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 2:44
  • @Ben Probably :-) Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 11:10
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    @PM Read my answer. There is no such thing. A tiny improvement is still an improvement. It's not a reviewers' job to act as judge jury and executioner on whether an editor should be rewarded or punished for an edit that does improve a post, however extensively. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 11:11
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    @jb Grabbing low hanging fruit is perfectly acceptable, as is editing solely for rep. So I really don't see the problem beyond this campaign of people trying to "punish" others for not editing more. It's kind of sad, actually. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 11:14
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    +1 -- there's no such thing as a "bad improvement," who cares about the two rep? If it makes SO a better place by even a tiny bit, let the edit through; if not, kill it for the appropriate reason. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 11:24
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    @Martin Either the tag is appropriate/correct for those questions, or it isn't. What's the problem? Why does it matter how it was added if it's correct? And if it's not, use "invalid edit". Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 12:24
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    Nope, I disagree. The whole point of Too Minor was users taking the easy way out. If you're not actually fixing everything that should be fixed, and leaving obvious spelling mistakes, you can bet I'll be rejecting that all day long. It's all about effort; fixing one little aspect without fixing other bits just shows little effort, and should not be rewarded.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:21
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    I don't think the reason was listed as "you must fix every problem with this post", but rather that "this edit doesn't go far enough; there are still substantive errors remaining." I see lots of suggested edits where the only change is capitalization of a couple words (i --> I). Such minor edits should be left for when you are above 2K rep and don't need to take three peoples' attention away just to approve your incremental action.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:39
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit It's much less attention required to reject an edit than it is to improve (at which point you're no longer reviewing; you're editing). The point, however, is to avoid those kinds of suggested reviews from ever entering the queue in the first place.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:50
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    @Tyler WHY? They IMPROVE the post. I don't know how to make this any clearer for you. And if you're choosing review actions on a leasteffort basis then you should not be reviewing at all (and certainly shouldn't be complaining that others aren't fixing as much as you'd like). Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:55
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm not arguing from my personal point of view, but from the point of view of the behavior that StackOverflow encourages. They want gamification and ease-of-use, but nearly every interaction on the site is confused, at best. If I want to review edits, let me review edits. Maybe I don't have time to focus on substantive additions myself, but I do have time to check others' reviews (on a train going home, for example). Don't call it the "Review" Queue if half the "reviews" are going to require edits on my part. That's part of the beauty of having 3+ people review the..
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 14:00
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    So if I wrote a script that found posts that contained 'Thank you' at the bottom, generated the edit, tossed up the result on my screen for me to say "looks good", shared it with 1000 other people, and 30,000 suggested "Thank you" removed edits with 97% accuracy (some misclicks, after all) appeared in the review queue, that would be a net positive? Just checking the courage of your convictions. Then add some more scripts for other similar changes... Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 23:52
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    @Tyler We're more like metameta now :p Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 15:09
6

tl;dr

Today my opinion on this subject has completely flipped and I think this is a good change. The "too minor" reason was addressing a problem that didn't really exist.

Longer version

I used to be in favour of rejecting minor edits, because it grated me that people didn't fix glaring issues with the post. It also annoyed me that they were "rep hunting". However, when I analysed the common objections to this habit I struggled to find anything substantial:

Trivial edits waste reviewers' time

Perhaps I'm missing something, but the edit review queue is nearly always empty. Presumably feeding on that queue are people intent on doing good and/or earning reviewer badges. It doesn't seem like there's a problem here.

They are just hunting the +2 rep

This used to bother me, but I've decided I might just be happier if I don't care. If someone really wants to get to 1000 reputation by doing minor edits, then I just feel sorry for them. They'll need an additional 1000 "normal" reputation before they are free to edit on their own.

They fix the trivial stuff and miss the big obvious problem

Yes, that's annoying. And yes, that's not how I would edit. But it doesn't prevent someone doing a better job later.

Without the "too minor" reason, the robo-reviewers will just get worse

Well... part of the reason we don't like those robo-reviewers is because they approved trivial edits rather than rejecting them as "too minor". But asides from this, robo reviewers are idiots who are just going to annoy us whatever the edit system looks like. Some people just want shiny badges whatever the cost and this change will not affect that. If anything, this change ensures a higher percentage of what they approve should have been approved anyway (since most trivial edits are good IME).

Finally..

I expect this post to attract down-votes. Hopefully some up-votes too. But it would be nice if the comments could articulate why something is a problem. Perhaps by pointing out some flaws in my reasoning above.

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  • It did address some edits but not as much as it seems some people say. I see plenty of edits that focus on one problem (from the same user in a short period of time) and doesn't correct other more or less obvious things that need improvement. I used "Too minor" when I saw a pattern from a user that I had to improve all their edits... wasting my time. So I rejected the worst of them that I saw with "Too minor" and tried to tell the user to improve their edits. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:20
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    @JonathanDrapeau Do you see a downside to approving such edits, now that "too minor" is not an available reason? It seems to me like it cost you a lot of time to enforce the "too minor" rule. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:22
  • Yes as the editor will never improve his edits to the point the reviewers won't ask themselves "Should I improve it or just accept... or reject as invalid?". When I ask myself that question for edits of the same user, "Too minor" was an appropriate reject reason. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:23
  • @JonathanDrapeau But now the question is merely "is the edit invalid or not". That's a much quicker decision. Reviewers can choose to edit further if they wish, but that has always been the case. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:35
  • I think you've yet to discover a discreet charm of Reject and Edit when reviewing suggestions that fix the trivial stuff and miss the big obvious problem. That was what helped me most in adopting to disappearance of too minor reason. While in the past, too minor led me to essentially leaving the post as is (including that "big obvious problem"), I am now really motivated to improve. It of course helps that since end August, robo approvers can't break my flow anymore
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:37
  • @gnat In your view, what is wrong with those minor edits? I'm assuming here that you are talking about trivial but valid edits. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:41
  • @Duncan wrong is when, as you described, these miss big obvious problem - that's when I hit Reject and Improve and fix that big obvious problem... and I love it (when I can't see what else to improve, things get bit more complicated, and I put effort to decide whether to approve or reject with custom message, but this eventually turned out not really annoying)
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:44
  • @gnat I'm specifically asking what problem it causes when they only edit part of the post and miss the big issue? Sure it's annoying, but is it anything more than that? Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:45
  • indiscriminate approval leaves suggestors oblivious about substantial improvements they could have done. Too minor tried to address this, but I like current system better (possibly because I myself learned to edit from my rejected suggestions), current system forces me to show what suggestor missed - either with my own edit, or with custom rejection message
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 14:59
  • @gnat While I sometime use the custom message, using "Too minor" was faster... I can also put "Too minor" in a custom message but I feel removing "Too minor" wasn't necessary in the first place, it should have been revamped to be more specific on "This edit does not add a proper amount of value to be worth the time it takes to review." or a better worded version of what I've come up with. I can live with the current ways but it's a bit more tedious on some cases. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 15:03
  • 1
    @JonathanDrapeau as someone who was once upon a time at "receiving end" of too-minor rejections, I can tell you that while being faster for single review, it was likely not faster in the long run. It took me quite a bunch of rejections to figure what I am doing wrong - and in the meantime, I was still wasting other reviewers time with low quality edits. Nowadays, system forces me to reject stuff so that suggestor learns to make good edits faster (so that they start making good edits sooner and this saves time of reviewers who can just hit approve)
    – gnat
    Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 15:06
0

Because XKCD is *always* relevant

Here:

Approve as too minor

Shog had a discussion some days ago, and people seems to agree that too minor has to go. This is evident that goes hand by hand with the "Reject and edit" button. If you consider a edit "too minor" you should fix the issues that weren't fixed in the original edit.

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    Ugh. Most of the edits I reject as too minor are indeed pointless, and don't require "proper" fixing, just proper rejection.
    – Xander
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 23:08
  • 16
    perfect. now there's no built-in reason to reject those edit-repo-scrappers Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 23:23
  • 10
    @AirThomas Yes, but there are way too many edits that are legitimately too minor, and not having a dedicated reject reason means even more reviewers will cop out and and auto-approve, (we have enough of these already) and we'll be left with front pages full of garbage edits after some new user decides he's going to spell-check his way to a badge.
    – Xander
    Commented Sep 8, 2014 at 23:43
  • 4
    "If you consider a edit "too minor" you should fix the issues that weren't fixed in the original edit." Yes, yet another reason to keep your fingers away from review queues. We should probably get rid of all the approve/vote stuff and require everyone to fix the things that would have lead them to not approving or wanting to close/delete something. That will get us much better content (from the three people that then will still do something)
    – PlasmaHH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 11:13
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    @PlasmaHH I'm ROFL. Let's just remove the close button, because users should improve a question instead of closing/deleting it? ;)
    – Theolodis
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 11:34
  • 2
    @Xander An edit that fixes spelling is not "garbage"! What's wrong with you?! This feels like a vendetta/crusade. Jealous of those with time to spare correcting spelling? Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 12:29
  • 3
    @Theolodis: why not? if we say "hey, dont reject edits, improve them always" we can also go that route and say "hey, dont reject questiosn, improve them always".
    – PlasmaHH
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 12:55
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    @Xander I really don't see how this is a problem. If you hate it so much, change your front page from "active" to "new" view. Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 13:42
  • 3
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit So your response to "users are spamming garbage content on the site" is "stop looking at everything and you won't see any of the garbage". That's not a solution, it's creating an even worse problem. Making the "active" view unusable by flooding the site with tons of trivial edits means that real edits won't actually generate the attention that they deserve, bad edits won't have an opportunity to be caught, etc. Destroying (for any practical sense) the "active" page just so people can farm rep doing nothing is actively harmful.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 9, 2014 at 20:09
  • 2
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Sure, it's not flooded with crap now. What do you think will happen when you go around telling people that edits that add zero value are now entirely appropriate, and we'll give you 2 rep for performing edits that make no meaningful change. It will result in the active view becoming flooded with crap, making it unusable. Because now you're changing your position from "it doesn't matter if we encourage people to make pointless edits, you can just ignore them by not using the active view" to "we can encourage people to make pointless edits and nothing will change".
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 14:17
  • 2
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit You are in your assertion that the entire idea of "too minor" is an invalid reason for rejecting an edit in the first place. "too minor", if you actually read its definition, has nothing to do with the percentage of the problems it fixes, it has everything to do with the amount of value added. An edit is "too minor" if making it isn't adding a lot of value, that's it.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 14:53
  • 2
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit As I very specifically went out of my way to say, it has nothing to do with whether or not they could have gone further. That has zero bearing on whether a post is "too minor, given its definition. It's purely a question of whether the edit is adding sufficient value. Edits have costs; non-zero costs. A suggestion that adds an entirely negligible amount of value has all of those same costs, thus encouraging edits of minuscule value are a net negative on the site. An edit needs to be of greater value than the costs it creates to have a net positive effect.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 15:01
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Making the "active" view useless is a HUGE cost. If droves of minor edits drive a large number of people to stop using that view it will have major detrimental effects to the site. If all of the good reviewers stop reviewing suggested edits because they see nothing but minor edits adding no value then that too, is a huge problem that will end up manifesting itself in lots of ways. The fact that you don't value your time at all, and consider wasting it to have no cost, doesn't mean that nobody else values their time.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 15:10
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit How do you disginguish, "virtually no change" from "A tiny improvement ... however extensively". That says pretty unambiguously that it doesn't matter how little an edit changes, to you no change in value is too small.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 16:26
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    Mmm... can you guys discuss this in, dunno, chat? I was scared when I checked my inbox (not that I'm against about you two fleshing out your ideas, just that... well.)
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 10, 2014 at 23:12

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