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I noticed a pattern where after I downvote an answer and leave a comment I get 2-3 downvotes in a row - for example:

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These two are completely unrelated to anything I've done recently, they're inactive and old. The user most likely looked at my questions - picked the ones with the lowest score to seem less suspicious and downvoted them. This is not the first or second or third time this exact pattern has happened to me.

Feature request

Given users A,B. (Please note the differences from the original proposal)

If user A downvotes more than one of user B's questions in under 5 minutes and those questions have not had other voting activity in the last 24 hours and user B has downvoted an active question of user A in the last 24 hours. Raise a moderator flag.

Answers to comment concerns.

  • Yes, I'm aware there is already a reversal script - it doesn't catch it.
  • I'm not concerned about my 4 reputation points, this pattern can deter users with 100 rep from commenting on bad answers providing crucial and useful information.
  • I'm not fixated on an hour as a threshold, 3-4 minutes might be more appropriate.
  • These two have since been manually reverted meaning that the flag would've worked in this case.
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    You are aware there is already a serial voting reversal script, right? Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:16
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    @MartijnPieters I am well aware there is a reversal script, and I'm also well aware it does not catch this case. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:18
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    @MartijnPieters Some people manage to fly under the serial vote reversal scripts radar, and just pick 2-3 questions to downvote and don't do it within the same minute. I've often experienced this. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:18
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    If there is a pattern here, you can just flag one of those posts for moderator attention (if the votes have not been reverted automatically tomorrow or even if the voting pattern is repeatedly executed even with reversals). They have additional tools to see if there is a pattern of voting that they need to act on. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:18
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    @MartijnPieters - It has to be a solid pattern of many votes over time, though. A couple of lone votes usually requires us to pull in a staff member, and we tend to only do that in extreme cases. Their time is even more limited than ours.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:20
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    @MartijnPieters my goal is not to fix my 4 reputation problem as 4 reputation is not a lot for a 50K user. I'd rather try to improve the system as a whole. If this happens to a 100 rep user this will definitely deter him from leaving correct comments in the future. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:20
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    I'm not arguing that what you think happened never happens @BenjaminGruenbaum. Just that the vote might well be valid. Even if I specifically look at your content, if I take the time to evaluate it I should be allowed to downvote it if I think that's needed. To outright ban that isn't good. If there is an actual problem, have a moderator/team member check it out.
    – Bart
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:21
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    @Bart an automatic flag sounds like a legitimate alternative solution. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:22
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    @mario please see my above comments - I'm not worried about the rep at all... Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:24
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    @MartijnPieters - The trend has to be clear enough for us to act on. In that case it was, and since it was an identifiable troll we could delete the account ourselves. If it was a legitimate account, that would have required manual vote invalidation. Vote invalidation can only be done by a staff member, and it really has to be worth it. Small vote counts without a more targeted trend generally aren't, and we settle for warnings there.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:27
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    @Bart I have experienced this for instance with particular persons, that they tend to give me this pattern (I don't want to disclose here, who's meant), whenever I downvote their answers (e.g. because of answering a VLQ question). Usually those are HR users themselves and are well intelligent enough to pick up my worst questions or answers. Though even these may deserve a downvote judged by content, the behavioral pattern smells (a lot). Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:30
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    @πάνταῥεῖ this is exactly what I'm talking about in this question. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:31
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    Seems like this is targeted by a long time troll. this message (deleted) indicates these were targeted, myself benji and sterling have all been serial voted today and now I'm getting multiple messages from said user. The user has been removed and my votes remain, so I presume they are using multiple accounts. [this is 100% speculation based on the information I have in front of me]
    – rlemon
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 19:09
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    Another troll? :( Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 19:14
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    @Braiam "There is a morale on this: never leave comments." Even if I don't leave a comment, when a VLQ question was closed by me (alone with mjölnir, or along the four other guys), it becomes pretty obvious, I was involved. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 19:14

1 Answer 1

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I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

EDIT: As far as I can tell from my time on meta, there is no community consensus on when "enough is enough" with regard to downvotes. That is, the community hasn't yet said that twenty downvotes (for example) is enough and should be a bottom limit. In the same manner, there are very few restrictions on how users are supposed to behave. We can spend our time lurking, or answering questions, or asking questions, or both, or in chat, or reviewing all the queues, or simply voting. So this I think would be a dangerous first step in telling users how they are allowed to spend their time here on Stack Overflow.

I think the mentioned time frame in your question is far too broad for the amount of activity here; one hour is enough time to examine at least a dozen questions at length. So if you were suggesting the action be taken when this behavior occurs within a time frame of a few minutes, I would be more inclined to agree.

Further, I think your comment above that recommends an automatic flag rather than an automatic reversal is much more reasonable, because my main concern is that I think it takes a human's discerning eye to really decide whether such actions should be cause for concern or are good and valid.

I'm not ready to say I'm sold on these parameters, but an automatic flag on more than two downvotes within a time frame of a matter of minutes would be a much more reasonable solution.

As flags, they'd be brought to moderator attention, but I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional review queue for such things available at 10K or some higher rep level for trusted power users to weigh in on.

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    We can't make these assumptions anyway - a user downvoting 15 questions could be just thinking those are bad questions anyway and those are reverted. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:21
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    Also note - those are always downvoted questions and not answers since downvoting answers costs reputation. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:21
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    If they do so in a space of time where we can be pretty sure there wasn't actual evaluation going on @BenjaminGruenbaum.
    – Bart
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:22
  • Which they did, in this case and in previous cases - again, I'm more concerned about this pattern deterring users from commenting on downvoted answers than anything else. Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:23
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    @BenjaminGruenbaum The question is at what point does it become targeting? The serial downvoting script considers that threshold to be somewhere around 3-4 (we obviously can't know for sure). While, yes, your suggestion does attempt to remove false positives, it lowers that key threshold to two, which I think is just too few. An hour is a long time for two questions (or answers). If it were within a time frame of like three or four minutes, you might have a stronger case, in my opinion.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 11, 2014 at 18:24
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    An automatic flag is not viable for something like this. As I describe in my comments on the question, moderators cannot invalidate votes so there's nothing we can do. These flags would be worthless. An SE employee would have to review all these, and frankly it isn't worth their limited time unless it gets to be large-scale vote targeting of a user. At that point, we'll already be aware of it.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Dec 12, 2014 at 18:49
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    @BenjaminGruenbaum it's not always downvoting of answers. I got trolled a few times with a clear pattern of downvoting old answers (over 2 years ago). This is not a coincidence: when you get 3 in a row and all of them old it means that someone had to dig in your history... as for the claim that maybe someone thought it's a bad answer, again it's highly unlikely that an answer that had 34 upvotes and 0 downvotes (from two years back) would suddenly get reviewed by someone that thinks it's a bad answer. Let along 3 such answers in a row...
    – Nir Alfasi
    Commented Dec 3, 2017 at 17:28

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