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TylerH
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I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

EDIT: As far as I can tell from my time on meta, there is no community consensus on when "enough is enough" with regard to downvotes. That is, the community hasn't yet said that twenty downvotes (for example) is enough and should be a bottom limit. In the same manner, there are very few restrictions on how users are supposed to be havebehave. We can spend our time lurking, or answering questions, or asking questions, or both, or in chat, or reviewing all the queues, or simply voting. So this I think would be a dangerous first step in telling users how they are allowed to spend their time here on Stack Overflow.

I think the mentioned time frame in your question is far too broad for the amount of activity here; one hour is enough time to examine at least a dozen questions at length. So if you were suggesting the action be taken when this behavior occurs within a time frame of a few minutes, I would be more inclined to agree.

Further, I think your comment above that recommends an automatic flag rather than an automatic reversal is much more reasonable, because my main concern is that I think it takes a human's discerning eye to really decideddecide whether such actions should be cause for concern or are good and valid.

I'm not ready to say I'm sold on these parameters, but an automatic flag on more than two downvotes within a time frame of a matter of minutes would be a much more reasonable solution.

As flags, they'd be brought to moderator attention, but I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional review queue for such things available at 10K or some higher rep level for trusted power users to weigh in on.

I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

EDIT: As far as I can tell from my time on meta, there is no community consensus on when "enough is enough" with regard to downvotes. That is, the community hasn't yet said that twenty downvotes (for example) is enough and should be a bottom limit. In the same manner, there are very few restrictions on how users are supposed to be have. We can spend our time lurking, or answering questions, or asking questions, or both, or in chat, or reviewing all the queues, or simply voting. So this I think would be a dangerous first step in telling users how they are allowed to spend their time here on Stack Overflow.

I think the mentioned time frame in your question is far too broad for the amount of activity here; one hour is enough time to examine at least a dozen questions at length. So if you were suggesting the action be taken when this behavior occurs within a time frame of a few minutes, I would be more inclined to agree.

Further, I think your comment above that recommends an automatic flag rather than an automatic reversal is much more reasonable, because my main concern is that I think it takes a human's discerning eye to really decided whether such actions should be cause for concern or are good and valid.

I'm not ready to say I'm sold on these parameters, but an automatic flag on more than two downvotes within a time frame of a matter of minutes would be a much more reasonable solution.

As flags, they'd be brought to moderator attention, but I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional review queue for such things available at 10K or some higher rep level for trusted power users to weigh in on.

I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

EDIT: As far as I can tell from my time on meta, there is no community consensus on when "enough is enough" with regard to downvotes. That is, the community hasn't yet said that twenty downvotes (for example) is enough and should be a bottom limit. In the same manner, there are very few restrictions on how users are supposed to behave. We can spend our time lurking, or answering questions, or asking questions, or both, or in chat, or reviewing all the queues, or simply voting. So this I think would be a dangerous first step in telling users how they are allowed to spend their time here on Stack Overflow.

I think the mentioned time frame in your question is far too broad for the amount of activity here; one hour is enough time to examine at least a dozen questions at length. So if you were suggesting the action be taken when this behavior occurs within a time frame of a few minutes, I would be more inclined to agree.

Further, I think your comment above that recommends an automatic flag rather than an automatic reversal is much more reasonable, because my main concern is that I think it takes a human's discerning eye to really decide whether such actions should be cause for concern or are good and valid.

I'm not ready to say I'm sold on these parameters, but an automatic flag on more than two downvotes within a time frame of a matter of minutes would be a much more reasonable solution.

As flags, they'd be brought to moderator attention, but I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional review queue for such things available at 10K or some higher rep level for trusted power users to weigh in on.

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TylerH
  • 21.2k
  • 22
  • 229
  • 328

I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

EDIT: As far as I can tell from my time on meta, there is no community consensus on when "enough is enough" with regard to downvotes. That is, the community hasn't yet said that twenty downvotes (for example) is enough and should be a bottom limit. In the same manner, there are very few restrictions on how users are supposed to be have. We can spend our time lurking, or answering questions, or asking questions, or both, or in chat, or reviewing all the queues, or simply voting. So this I think would be a dangerous first step in telling users how they are allowed to spend their time here on Stack Overflow.

I think the mentioned time frame in your question is far too broad for the amount of activity here; one hour is enough time to examine at least a dozen questions at length. So if you were suggesting the action be taken when this behavior occurs within a time frame of a few minutes, I would be more inclined to agree.

Further, I think your comment above that recommends an automatic flag rather than an automatic reversal is much more reasonable, because my main concern is that I think it takes a human's discerning eye to really decided whether such actions should be cause for concern or are good and valid.

I'm not ready to say I'm sold on these parameters, but an automatic flag on more than two downvotes within a time frame of a matter of minutes would be a much more reasonable solution.

As flags, they'd be brought to moderator attention, but I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional review queue for such things available at 10K or some higher rep level for trusted power users to weigh in on.

I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.

EDIT: As far as I can tell from my time on meta, there is no community consensus on when "enough is enough" with regard to downvotes. That is, the community hasn't yet said that twenty downvotes (for example) is enough and should be a bottom limit. In the same manner, there are very few restrictions on how users are supposed to be have. We can spend our time lurking, or answering questions, or asking questions, or both, or in chat, or reviewing all the queues, or simply voting. So this I think would be a dangerous first step in telling users how they are allowed to spend their time here on Stack Overflow.

I think the mentioned time frame in your question is far too broad for the amount of activity here; one hour is enough time to examine at least a dozen questions at length. So if you were suggesting the action be taken when this behavior occurs within a time frame of a few minutes, I would be more inclined to agree.

Further, I think your comment above that recommends an automatic flag rather than an automatic reversal is much more reasonable, because my main concern is that I think it takes a human's discerning eye to really decided whether such actions should be cause for concern or are good and valid.

I'm not ready to say I'm sold on these parameters, but an automatic flag on more than two downvotes within a time frame of a matter of minutes would be a much more reasonable solution.

As flags, they'd be brought to moderator attention, but I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional review queue for such things available at 10K or some higher rep level for trusted power users to weigh in on.

Source Link
TylerH
  • 21.2k
  • 22
  • 229
  • 328

I don't think we can make the assumption that these are revenge downvotes. Are they most likely? Probably. Does that always invalidate two downvotes against a user who recently DV'd them? Not necessarily, at least by my understanding of the purpose of voting.

My understanding is that downvotes are intended on Stack Overflow (not Meta) to indicate poor quality, incorrect information, non-answers, or bad practices/unnecessary complexity (like someone suggesting jQuery to change the background-color of a div).

The point here is that, while I haven't looked at your two downvoted answers to see if they are in fact downvote-worthy, there shouldn't be an automated process to revert downvotes in this scenario, because you can't prove that they were revenge votes, or that they weren't just valid downvotes that happened because a user was brought to their attention through your comment.