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I asked a question: "Can you send an email to an address, have it be accepted by the mail server, and then the mail server silently deletes it?" on Stack Overflow and it was downvoted and closed after 6 days.

I asked the identical core question, with a different title and context on Server Fault and received two very useful answers within six hours. However, the context for the question on Server Fault was a lie as I am not setting up my own email server; I am trying to help my friend debug sending me emails.

As you can see from the comments under the Stack Overflow question I tried to explain why this was a valid question but it was then immediately closed ¯\(ツ)/¯ despite being quickly answered on Server Fault.

I am wondering if there is any better approach I could have taken. The experience of the honest question was disappointing and ultimately pointless. The experience of the dishonest question, whilst productive, feels ignoble and dishonourable to be dishonest. It doesn't seem like that's the spirit we want to foster on Stack Exchange? It's certainly not what I want to do.

I appreciate this might be off-topic, but if not, I would be interested to hear if people think this is just the way it has to be or if there's a better approach I could have taken?

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    I mean, it's not a programming question. I don't understand the confusion as to why it isn't on topic here, we also don't accept cooking questions. the line's gotta be drawn somewhere
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:07
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    Also, find me a SMTP server (or, well, any server for that matter) that implements a RFC spec 100% to code, and I'll show you a Unicorn. Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:11
  • @KevinB ok so maybe I could have reposted it to serverfault as it was and received an answer. I had assumed it was closed because of the comment where a user "Rob" had misunderstood the question. And the way I view it it very much is about programming. My friend is staring at their email logs and seeing 250 responses coming from my mail server, but my mail server (google) isn't showing anything to me.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:20
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    Yea, these communities just aren't as connected as they might seem to be. I have no idea what is and isn't on topic on server fault, i spend my time here instead
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:22
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    I mean, in a roundabout way it's programming... in that the server handling these requests surely relied on programming at some point to be what they are... but from our perspective it's server administration, as we're not looking at how these services were coded, rather, we're looking at how they're configured. There's no programming involved in solving the problem.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:25
  • Yep, thanks @KevinB. Now I know more, it's a reasonable assumption his server code doesn't have a bug and it's a higher level problem to do with his server's IP address.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:29
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    It doesn't matter if you are really having this issue or not. It doesn't even matter if you already know the answer to it. If you think the question will be useful to others post it. It can be a completely made up scenario.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:41
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    "As you can see from the comments under the Stack Overflow question I tried to explain why this was a valid question but it was then immediately closed ¯_(ツ)_/¯ despite being quickly answered on Server Fault." In your own words, why do you think Stack Overflow and Server Fault both separately exist, while being run by the same people? Would you consider that, at least in principle, there are some questions that are supposed to be asked in one place, and not the other? Maybe your question might have been one of them? Maybe "lying" has nothing to do with it? Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 0:04
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    @KarlKnechtel yes you're correct. My initial confusion was my conversation with "Rob" underneath the first question on Stack Overflow where he misunderstood the question based on the context. The conversation wasn't resolved, the question was just closed without explanation. I wrongly assumed it was closed because of the incorrect interpretation of the question's context. I now see that the question was more suitable for Server Fault, and it would be interesting to know (but too late to know) if it would have been accepted in its original form.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 7:48
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    What was confusing about Rob's comment? It read, "Hover over the email tag and read that popup. Then delete this." There was no misunderstanding of the question. There was no "incorrect interpretation of the question's context". The question's context was correctly interpreted as not being about programming, and so the question was closed. The closure most certainly was not "without explanation", as you claim; the explanation was provided in a big blue banner box at the top of the question!
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 8:05
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    @CodyGray yes I thought it was closed due to Rob misunderstanding the (irrelevant) context of the question as being about "why the emails you send are marked as spam". The "configuration of mail servers belong on Server Fault" didn't land for me as I didn't view this as configuring but as what's a valid writing of a mail server. I think what I needed was a "Thanks but post this on ServerFault and drop the irrelevant context" closed. I'm going to stop replying now to save people's time. I think we've worked this to death! Thanks for all your inputs.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 8:21
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    @AJP - “Hover over the email tag and read that popup. Then delete this.”, is a rude comment and should have been flagged. However, the close reason was self-explanatory, commentary to explain the closure wasn’t necessary Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 10:31
  • Thank you @SecurityHound , I tried to respond constructively to what I thought Rob was confused about (I didn't even think about flagging it but I may next time) but the question was then immediately closed so I made the misassumption it was due to unresolved confusion relating to the question & context. It has become abundantly clear that this may be partially true but the main problem was that my previous perspective prevented me from appreciating that & why the question was not on topic. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 18:22

2 Answers 2

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I asked a question: "Can you send an email to an address, have it be accepted by the mail server, and then the mail server silently deletes it?" on Stack Overflow and it was downvoted and closed after 6 days.

Yes, because that's a question about how mail servers work; it is demonstrably not a question about a specific programming problem, software algorithm, or software tool commonly used by programmers (meaning, specifically by programmers), and it isn't a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development.

Or as I like to formulate it: it isn't a question about

  • how to write code; nor

  • how to use tools that are useful for writing code, for the purpose of helping to write code.

Which is why, when the question was closed, the blue shaded box that the system automatically added to the question says, among other things:

This question does not appear to be about a specific programming problem, a software algorithm, or software tools primarily used by programmers."

When the system is explicitly telling you that the question was closed because of what it "appears to be about", I should hope the natural conclusion would be "oh, they think my question is off topic".


I asked the identical core question, with a different title and context on Server Fault and received two very useful answers within 6 hours.

Sure. You might well have gotten them with the same title and context, too.

After all, it is a question about how mail servers work, which demonstrably is a question about managing the hardware or software of servers, workstations, storage or networks (specifically, the software of a server and/or a local network).


However the context for the question on Server Fault was a lie as I am not setting up my own email server, I am trying to help my friend debug sending me emails.

We don't care if that's a lie. The question is how to set up an email server. Whether the server will be used for you or your friend does not change the facts about how setting up an email server works.

Similarly, just as it is perfectly acceptable to answer your own question in order to contribute to the Q&A database, it is acceptable to pose as a newbie to ask the question and then answer it as an expert. (In many cases, this is the only reasonable route to getting a good Q&A, because the people who need the question answered are fundamentally incapable of asking it properly - if they were capable of asking it, they'd be capable of figuring it out, too).

On the flip side: when asking a question anywhere on the Stack Exchange network, but especially on the technically oriented sites, we don't want the question to include things that are not about the problem.

The fact (or supposition, or hypothetical, or legal fiction) that you want (or someone else wants) the problem solved for a particular reason (or e.g. by a particular deadline), doesn't change how the task is performed. We want as little of that as possible in the question. Sometimes a line like "I'm trying to write a program to do X" is helpful for understanding the context of a debugging question, but that's about it.

So, rather than fuss over whether you're asking for yourself or a friend, or pretending that the other one is the case, just ask the question.


As you can see from the comments under the Stack Overflow question I tried to explain why this was a valid question but it was then immediately closed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ despite being quickly answered on Server Fault.

Yes, bumping an ignored question tends to draw attention to it. When site curators have their attention drawn to something that is clearly off topic, they tend to act quickly to close it.

Bluntly, you are not the one who gets to decide whether a question is on-topic. The response you offered in the comments does not address the problem that was pointed out.

(Also, please consider the attitude that you project by using that emote. That, and the age of your account, have a lot to do with why I'm not treating you with kid gloves here. You should know better by now.)


I am wondering if there is any better approach I could have taken. The experience of the honest question was disappointing and ultimately pointless. The experience of the dishonest question, whilst productive, feels ignoble and dishonourable to be dishonest. It doesn't seem like that's the spirit we want to foster on stackexchange? It's certainly not what I want to do.

None of this has anything to do with the "honesty" of the question framing. It is purely about topicality.


I appreciate this might be off topic but if not I would be interested to hear if people think this is just the way it has to be or if there's a better approach I could have taken?

The better approach you could have taken is: when you were told to hover over the tag and read its description, read all three sentences:

Use this tag for questions involving code to send or receive email messages. Posting to ask why the emails you send are marked as spam is off-topic for Stack Overflow. Questions about configuration of mail servers belong on Server Fault.

I don't know how it could possibly be any clearer.

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    Thanks for the advice Karl, yes it was from my confusion about why it was closed. Agreed regarding: don't include irrelevant context. I think what I needed was a "Thanks but post this on ServerFault" closed. I thought it was closed due to "Rob" misunderstanding the (irrelevant) context of the question as being about "why the emails you send are marked as spam". The "configuration of mail servers belong on Server Fault" didn't land for me as I didn't view this as configuring but as what's a valid writing of a mail server. Thanks again for your detailed post, I'll try to do better.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 8:16
  • "The "configuration of mail servers belong on Server Fault" didn't land for me as I didn't view this as configuring but as what's a valid writing of a mail server." I missed this part the first time around. Coming back to this post later, I'm confused: is there some other relevant meaning of the word "configuration", besides giving an existing system (such as a mail server) rules (i.e. "appear to accept, and then silently delete") that work with its existing programming, about how to deal with specific inputs (i.e. "an email sent to a specific address')? Commented Aug 20, 2023 at 10:45
  • Hey Karl, thanks for your message. No I don't think there is another relevant meaning of the word "configuration". My confusion was that I was approaching my question from the perspective of asking about valid implementations of mail servers; valid with regard to the email specification(s) like rfc822. Then people start talking about configuration but that's not what I was trying to ask about, and it's not how I assumed people would interpret the question. I'm sure one could write (bad) mail server software that allows users to configure it to not be non-compliant with the specification.
    – AJP
    Commented Aug 24, 2023 at 11:09
  • For what it's worth I still do not know if it's "valid" (with regard to email server standard(s)) for a mail server to claim it's accepted an email and then not show it to the recipient user. If the receiving mail server categorised the sender IP address / email content as spam then should it not reply with some "your mail is rejected" response... I don't know (my question was, rightly, closed :P :-) )
    – AJP
    Commented Aug 24, 2023 at 11:13
  • If you wanted to ask a question about what RFC822 says about what mail servers are allowed to do, it would have been a good idea to mention RFC822 in the question. Similarly, if you planned to write code yourself to implement a mail server spec, you should have focused on a specific aspect of that task that you had a question about, and asked either a how-to question with a precise specification, or a whats-wrong question with a proper MRE. But "what does the spec say" is probably still off topic, and best answered by reading the RFC. Commented Aug 24, 2023 at 14:31
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    Thank you Karl. Alas I am not an expert & I only just thought to search for something like RFC822 to try to explain what I was trying to ask. Given more time to explain the question I might have arrived at that spec myself. I could imagine then trying to read it to assertain myself if it was valid for a mail server to accept an email and then not present it to the recipient but by then my question would have been hours old (and long ago closed). I was hoping that someone might have narrowed the search for me or just said: "yes", or "no" and maybe pointed me at the relevant section of the RFC.
    – AJP
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 13:53
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It was closed on Stack Overflow because it's not a programming question. Stack Overflow doesn't allow all types of questions; we have very specific rules for which types of questions we allow.

Your attempt to explain why it was a "valid question" seems to have entirely missed the point. On Stack Overflow, "valid question" doesn't mean that you need to prove that you're actually having the problem (as opposed to making it up). It means that you need to prove that the question is on-topic for this site and not one of the types of questions we forbid. Your question failed that test, because it's not about programming or software development. It is, per your own admission, about an issue with a mail server. The tag wiki excerpt that you were pointed to even says explicitly:

Questions about configuration of mail servers belong on Server Fault.

I cannot speak to your experience on Server Fault. I, personally, agree that their requirement that the asker be doing the thing in a professional server-administration context is a little bit silly, as it can be trivially subverted by lying, as you explain. That makes it a poor criteria for assessing the suitability or topicality of questions (which I feel should be assessed independent of the motivations or context of the asker). But that is not Stack Overflow's concern, and it is something you'd need to take up on Server Fault's associated Meta site.

It is worth pointing out that just because we declare a question off-topic for Stack Overflow does not put the burden on us to find or point to another site where that question would be on-topic. We only moderate our own content. (Along those lines, I think we are probably doing users and ourselves a disservice by explicitly recommending Server Fault in the tag wiki excerpt. We should instead just declare questions about configuring mail servers off-topic for Stack Overflow.)

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  • The way I viewed it it was about programming but sounds like server fault would have been a better location for the question. My friend is staring at their email logs and seeing 250 responses coming from my mail server, but my mail server (google) isn't showing anything to me. If it's valid / reasonably expected behaviour then I'll advise them differently to if my mail server is behaving unreasonably.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:22
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    "My friend is staring at their email logs and seeing 250 responses coming from my mail server, but my mail server (google) isn't showing anything to me." What does that have to do with programming? Which one of you is doing any programming?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:26
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    Yeah fair question CodyGray, I think he needs to fix his server, change his IP address, or accept that his emails won't get through to me. It's programming related, but I agree serverfault is a better location than stackoverflow. Again I had assumed it was rejected because of the title and context, rather than because it was off topic.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:26
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    @AJP: You're talking about administering a mail service, not writing code. It's not programming related for that reason.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:29
  • Thanks @Makoto . Now I know more, it's a reasonable assumption his server code doesn't have a bug and it's a higher level problem to do with his server's IP address.
    – AJP
    Commented Feb 9, 2023 at 23:30
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    "doing the thing in a professional server-administration context" - SO has equivalent requirement from my point of view - it requires author to be professional or enthusiast programmer. It cuts down on need to explain that variables exist and what they are (ok, in most cases), similar how SF requirement cuts down on need to explain things like DNS records or existence of HTTP. Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 0:31
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    As far as I can tell from the on-topic page, Server Fault doesn't actually require you to "be doing the thing" in that context. It only requires that the question is about "doing the thing" in that context. IOW, they don't want questions that end users would have. Setting up a mail server is definitely not something ordinary end users do. Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 0:36
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    "It's programming related" - Changing a configuration file does not make it "programming related', The configuration of an email server is not a programming problem, it's a server application configuration problem, and likely within scope at Server Fault. It does not matter if it's your server or your friend's server, provided you have enough basic knowledge as an Administrator on the server. At no point are you writing or debugging code when you configure an email server. Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 0:37
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    @AJP: Even if his mail server had a bug it will still not be programming related in the sense we use on stack overflow unless the question was about diagnosing and fixing the bug from the programmer's perspective. If the question is about finding a patch from the software maintainer or working around the bug it's off topic. If you have the mail server source code and you want to fix the bug yourself then stackoverflow is the right place. Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 4:17
  • If it doesn't fit on Server Fault, then it should on Super User. Sample 1. Sample 2. Sample 3 Commented Feb 10, 2023 at 12:23

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