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Stack Exchange sites are some of the best knowledge resources available. The Stack Exchange network is built on the premise that good questions (asked with a good process behind them) can get good answers. However, it can be pretty daunting for newcomers to get that process right, and current new user onboarding is less than ideal for getting them to a place where they can start asking quality questions and knowing how to write them.

I know this from my own experience. I once participated in a coding boot camp. I was taught that Stack Overflow was the best online resource to get help with programming questions. Most of my questions were not answered. Why not? Like many new users, I thought Stack Overflow was where anyone could come and get any question answered. One of those questions had well-intentioned comments such as, “I think if you read the docs all of your questions will be answered.” which was accurate but not the help I was looking for.

What we are doing about it

We have seen sites like Worldbuilding, Puzzling, and Code Golf have successfully created their own question-asking sandboxes on their meta sites. Recently, we have been actively thinking if we can create a sandbox-like built-in solution that would allow more experienced users to interact with new users in a space away from the active questions on the main site, get some advice and avoid common question closures. The initial research on an approach of this nature has confirmed our belief that this would be a valuable way to approach the problem of new users being able to ask good questions. We want to ensure that new users ask quality questions when they are introduced to the format of Stack Exchange sites and that they are provided with actionable and concrete guidance in case of an issue.

What do you think?

This is the first in a series of posts that will be exploring:

  1. Some of the issues that exist right now with new user onboarding and introducing the idea of the Staging Ground (this post).
  2. Summaries of the different stages of research that have been conducted, which led to our proposed test for the Staging Ground.
  3. An overview of the workflow of the Staging Ground:
    1. Question Details & Actions
    2. Listings, Filters, Quality Control, and Notifications
    3. Question Lifecycle Overview
    4. Discussion on Reviewer Motivation, Scaling, and Open Questions
  4. Crowdsourcing for Canned Comments and Revisions
  5. Beta Test Announcement

We will be happy to hear your thoughts and address your questions about the research, and Staging Ground on the future posts dedicated to these topics. We’ll also ask you some specific questions that we’d like to hear from you. The first of these:

What was your experience like when you asked your first question on Stack Overflow or on the Stack Exchange network?

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  • 40
    Why is this on Meta.SO instead of Meta.SE, which is more applicable to the broad audience of the whole network?
    – Mithical
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:08
  • 11
    This staging ground sounds similar to the experiment a few years ago: Stack Overflow Mentorship Research Project – was that part of the initial research?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:08
  • 19
    @Mithical We will be testing exclusively on Stack Overflow to start with. Then depending on how that goes, it will be shared on MSE.
    – SpencerG StaffMod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:09
  • 15
    @Mithical While we hope that Staging Ground will eventually graduate and be made available to all sites on the network, the main use case (and the highest demand for it) will be on Stack Overflow. Thus, our initial series of posts will be on this site. When we are ready to talking about if/how these new tools can help on sites across the network (and what adaptations might be needed there), those discussions will be on MSE.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:12
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    Also, we're already struggling enough with first questions and answers as it is. Could we please get more focus on our already broken tools before piling on with even more tools? Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:18
  • 9
    @ZoestandswithUkraine First answers is not struggling. And First questions is doing remarkably better than it was a few weeks ago. But beyond that, this is not an attempt to pile on more tools. As will hopefully become clear, we are trying to test out what will be a change to the overall onboarding experience for new users on the site - proactively trying to help with that experience (and quality). Versus review queues which are by definition reactive.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:41
  • 8
    "You mean a queue" - no, we are not adding a new queue here. Future posts will introduce more about the way that the Staging Ground will work.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:42
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    I think any step in the direction of reducing poorly asked questions is a good step. I await to see what this will result in, but I am happy either way to see SE trying to tackle this problem.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:46
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    Fair warning, this block of comments is going to jump in topics because writing hard. "no, we are not adding a new queue here" - not necessarily in the old system. Could be a mod flag-style queue, but if you're not adding any type of queue, then you're probably doing mentoring 2.0, and that did not scale the first time around. Either that or you're essentially reimplementing asking, but without asking and without votes, and without closure, but possibly the option to answer either way, and poof, you have an abuse vector with a huge throughput that mods have to manage, assuming we get tools. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 21:13
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    TL;DR: I don't see any way this is going to work, unless the existing, huge problems with the moderation systems, that severely drag down efficiency at the scale SO operates on, are worked out first. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 21:14
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    @ZoestandswithUkraine: Would you be comfortable converting that block of comments to an answer? While recognize that it started in response to the OP's comments, and doesn't answer the final prompt, I also think it would be easier for the rest of us to follow (and, if appropriate, respond to) if it were structured as a separate post, and especially since the OP will almost certainly have further responses. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 21:24
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    @ZoestandswithUkraine This is a lot of good feedback. Thanks for taking the time to share. I want to acknowledge that some, if not all, have been brought up internally. As I mentioned in the post, we will be doing follow-up posts that share some of our research, design mockups, etc. I think you will find the direction we chose satisfying, if not looking forward to your critique to point out what we may have missed.
    – SpencerG StaffMod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:12
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    The problem: The vast majority of the time people shouldn't be asking a Stack Overflow question. At the core, it will have a trivial answer. If not, it will be a duplicate. A good, original question is so awesomely rare that it just isn't funny. I'm 100% behind making people ask better questions, be it through the server badgering them or education in effective problem solving techniques and debugging, because the end result will be fewer questions asked due to self-service. That said, I love the sandboxing idea, but I join others in not believing that it will scale. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 23:31
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    @ZoestandswithUkraine "I don't see any way this is going to work". Thanks for your comments. But we haven't defined anything about how Staging Ground will work thus far, so I think that your determination here is very speculative and a bit premature. We will be devoting other posts to going over how it will work, and those will be the more appropriate places to have this conversation.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 6:52
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    My first question pissed off Jon Skeet
    – Sayse
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 7:56

55 Answers 55

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I asked my first question in 2014. It was a really basic problem that was more caused by my inexperience with JavaScript than anything else. I got three answers that were all very helpful, explaining my error using the keywords I didn't have the experience to google, and guiding me towards best practices. It was intimidating, but positive.

I think my positive experience was because I had used Stack Overflow a lot before making an account, and absorbed some of the rules just by seeing how others formatted their questions. I wouldn't say it was a good question, but it had all of the elements of one: code example, description of the problem, and links to other results I found while searching for an answer. Most people just want to know you tried.

I learned from my early questions that learning the technical terms to describe what you're trying to do in a language is super important. Once you know the keywords to search for, it's almost guaranteed you'll find a solution to your problem. I learned if I can't find a solution to my problem, it's probably because I don't have enough of a basic understanding, so I brush up on my basics and vocabulary.

I've only written five questions in the last 8 years. My last one was in 2019. I still use the site constantly, but I don't work with bleeding edge tech and I've learned to fish, so there's no need to ask anymore.

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    This behavior is very recommended! And it can be summarized by two words: lurk moar. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:07
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    Similar experience here. I'd been finding answers on SO for years before creating my account last year to ask my first question. A few times I nearly created an account, but whilst creating a minimum reproducible example to back up my question, I worked out the answer myself so didn't need to ask it after all. When I did ask my first question, it got two upvotes within a day or so (possibly from the first questions review queue?). No answer yet, but that's OK. I'd consider my experience to be positive, and I'm fairly sure that's because I'd already been lurking for so long and reading the help
    – sbridewell
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 7:55
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    @sbridewell Very likely from the queue. I never posted a question on Stack Overflow (never felt the need to), but when I posted my first answer — it was a mediocre code-only answer to a question that should’ve probably been closed as a dupe — I still received four upvoted very quickly. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 20:47
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    "I think my positive experience was because I had used Stack Overflow a lot before making an account" - indeed, you set yourself up for success that way. First you learn, then you participate. Alas many people come to the site with a mission: they need someone else to make their error go away, FAST.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 16:30
  • This was my experience as well. I browsed SO for about a year, and then joined. Even in the two months I've been here, I haven't asked a question. I think most of the questions people ask are easily solvable by googling, but they don't do it. We should encourage people to do research.
    – pigrammer
    Commented Oct 17, 2022 at 20:50
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Before answering the question, let me say I'm expecting this project to fail horribly. This is iteration #9001 of "let's help new askers" and it doesn't seem to be any more focused on reducing the amount of questions asked on this site. IMO the majority of new questions in my main tags (python, java) should simply not be posted in the first place, and the offending users should not be asking SO but read tutorials or docs, or experiment in a shell. That might not be "welcoming" but the current interpretation of "welcoming" resulted in a situation where literally the only thing I do on SO is downvoting, closevoting, and writing the occasional meta comment or post.


Re the topic - I asked my first question almost a decade ago, while I was still a student, in a language I'm not terribly familiar with (C/C++). It went well because I researched before asking the question and prepared relevant code snippets. There was minor debate about the tags I chose (I used both C and C++ as it was an interop problem between a C lib and a C++ codebase), and that was it. I got good, useful answers, no closevotes, and the question has a score of +7/-1 (the DV might even have been a random "revenge" vote at a later time, I don't remember).

In summary, I didn't even think of asking SO before doing some research and experimentation, and knew what was expected of me, both of which sadly isn't the case for most questions asked nowadays.

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    I agree, and I suspect there might be some generation clash here. I started learning programming in the 1990s and the Internet barely existed. You had to use conventional methods of learning: reading books and taking classes, a very well-tried and refined method of learning that existed for several thousand years before the Internet. Now there's the Youtube generation who somehow think that they are the chosen ones, who suddenly don't need to use these conventional means of study unlike some hundreds of generations before them.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 13:05
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    @Lundin not sure if it's a generational thing. IMO it's not so much books/classes vs the internet, but the willingness to experiment and learn by yourself. I learned Delphi in highschool in 2003-5 (at a very basic level), and while I already spent a lot of time online I didn't use it much for coding related things. I wrote bad breakout clones and other small games for fun but didn't learn much. Only got serious about programming a few years later when changing masters to CS, and picked up most of my CS knowledge from the net, not books/courses (only coding book I read was SICP for the memes).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 13:53
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    It completely blows my mind that people on a Q&A site believe that the best way to fix the problem of "bad questions" is to keep telling people to stop asking questions. Sure, we need people to stop asking questions that have been repeatedly asked to death, but even duplicate questions have value when they point to related questions with good answers. And really, the only way people get better at things, like asking questions, is to do more of it, not less. "Practice makes perfect" not "shut up and do it perfectly correct the first time". Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 19:45
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    @computercarguy are you going curate all that? Oh, no your not…didn’t think so.
    – user692942
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 21:14
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    @Lundin I almost never believe generational temperament differences unless proven without reasonable doubt. Another hypothesis might be that there was a strong selection bias towards people who will learn by themselves back in the day because programming was, comparably, quite inaccessible.
    – Passer By
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 5:23
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    @computercarguy Practice, yes. Practice anywhere at anyone's expense, no.
    – Passer By
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 5:31
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    @computercarguy "we need people to stop asking questions that have been asked to death" - from my perspective that includes the endless questions from users who don't even know the basics of programming (basic syntax, concepts like variables/methods). The overwhelming majority of those Qs are very localized and thus not useful to anyone else, and would also require the answerers to teach a lot of simple concepts to the OPs. When I signed up SO was about building a high quality content repo for professionals in Q/A format, not about mentoring people who fail at coding hello world in python.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 10:49
  • @user692942, I'm of the camp that thinks SO/SE should be curating their own content, not require the free work of volunteers to keep the business running. If you have a problem with there already being too much work to curate as a volunteer, you should take that up with the website owners, not the people using the website. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 17:35
  • @PasserBy, so where do you suggest people practice asking questions that are as tightly restricted as SO/SE and follow the exact same rules? You won't get that at Reddit, which many people get pushed to when they don't immediately know 100% of the rules on the first try. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 17:36
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    @l4mpi, this is why having a more formal intro to SO/SE is so important, so we can tell beginners to get more help offsite before they ask super basic questions. Right now, we basically yell at them to RTFM and close or delete the question before they have a chance to see any kind of response. And yes, I've seen questions closed in under 6 minutes and taking +3 days to get reopened after it was edited, as well as comments that specifically said "RTFM" and nothing else, not even a suggestion as to what manual they should be reading instead of the one they likely are reading. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 17:40
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    @computercarguy You won't get the exact same thing. But you don't need to. The huge majority of closed questions are due to missing skills that aren't exclusive to SO, such as how to read the rules and how to be nice humans.
    – Passer By
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 5:11
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    @computercarguy Good luck creating a meaningful "formal intro" that reaches people who fail to search for their problems, fail to read the docs or a tutorial, fail to read SO guidelines, and even fail to ckeck the question preview before asking trivial stuff with broken formatting and missing content. You would probably have to strap them to a chair and force them to watch a video, clockwork orange style. And I don't see a problem with there being more friction for reopening initially-bad questions than to get them closed (although IME garbage is often answered badly before it can be closed).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 13:30
  • @PasserBy, I've seen plenty of questions that were closed by people who could use those same "be nice humans" and "read the rules" skills. Of the few questions I've asked, I've had plenty of "feedback" by those types who have far more rep than me. Also, many of the rules aren't in a easily accessible centralized area. They may "all" be on Meta, but even as long as I've been on this network, I'd never seen many of the rules posted that got my questions closed or at least CVed. We need to do better than that as a community. Commented Mar 14, 2022 at 17:08
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    @computercarguy people who "earnestly" want to use SO already have a ton of resources and ways to wrap their head around this site (the help center, the sidebar on the "ask" page, meta, lurking on main, etc), so "not having even 25% of the necessary information available to them" is IMO simply incorrect. And again, the main issue is not askers who don't understand all of SO's rules, it's askers who don't know programming basics and fail to do their own research and experimentation, leading to useless localized questions. You can't fix that by throwing more info about SO in their faces.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 15, 2022 at 9:56
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    @l4mpi, here's an example of what I'm talking about: robotics.stackexchange.com/questions/23323/…. The comment makes a judgmental comment about my question when they could have just asked for more clarification. This is very mild compared to some of the comments I've seen around, and not just pointed at me. And your comment about it being with the way I use the site, instead of the site in general is also judgmental. If this is supposed to be a professional Q&A site, we should leave off those judgmental comments. Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 16:05
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I asked my first question in January 2012. It wasn't good. I got four downvotes (+0/-4), and it was rapidly closed because I did not "demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem" (not inaccurate). One user was so incensed by my question, and my question alone, that they proceeded to serially downvote me, which I flagged, but the votes were never to my memory reverted. I got one answer. The answerer, to credit, did help me understand where the error in my thought process was.

On my third attempt at asking a question, I finally received my first upvote. After that, I dedicated most of my time to answering questions, and sitting around Meta Stack Overflow. I amassed a fair bit of reputation that way, but it was slow work.

It's a miracle I'm still here. That account no longer exists. If I were anyone but me, with my weird fascination with people and systems, I'd be long gone. But I stuck around because I didn't understand. I kept trying because I don't mind looking like a fool in public - never really have. To me, embarrassment and shame are temporary. The lessons they teach are imperative. Who will remember some learner stumbling in public over reading data from DirectX?

Important context: I was also very, very young.


Three things characterized my experience starting out on Stack Overflow in 2012.

  1. I felt exposed - and not in a good way. This isn't necessarily something Stack Overflow can control, but I (and I think a lot of people now) believed that asking for help is a sign of vulnerability. What to me was an expression of vulnerability was met with some fairly harsh reaction.
  2. I got my answer ("you don't know what you're doing"), but the way it was communicated was frustrating. Analogous to #1, the way people and systems communicated this message to me was mysterious. The way it was presented (here is the list of people who think you don't get it) was certainly a hit to my ego.
  3. It took a long time to reach the point where I could contribute productively, consistently. And the only way I got there was by participating actively on MSO for an extended period of time.

'course, things aren't done the same way around here, anymore. 2012 was a long time ago. This experience needs to be read in a historical light. Certainly some of this still happens today - I am sure the timbre of this is familiar to many here. Even though it'd be hard for me to say I'd have an analogous experience today, I hope a bit of history proves useful.

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    (Also, for clarification: Not currently involved with this project. Just saw the question pop up on an internal channel.)
    – Slate StaffMod
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 20:59
  • It might be good to think about what would have been helpful to avoid the negative experiences. Like being exposed: not showing the name of the question creator if not wanted (only in the edit history maybe), .. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 12:22
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    Notably, taking hits to ones ego is not necessarily a bad thing, particularly not when one is young and dumb. I started programming as a hobbyist and thought I was pretty good, then I took some actual classes in school and realized that I didn't have a clue. Then after those classes, I thought I knew everything... then I went to university and realized that I still didn't have a clue. Then after an engineering degree, I thought I was awesome at programming, then got my first job and realized that I still didn't have a clue.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 12:55
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    This from someone making an actual effort to learn. We have extreme amounts of new users who think they have made an effort at learning after watching a 5 minute long youtube video by some quack, then post their first question here. It might be very healthy for these kind of people, often of the young & dumb variety like in my example above, to get brought down back to earth. Will it be a positive new user experience? No, it will be the opposite but that's because of the inflated ego they are bringing with them, not because of the site.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 12:58
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    @Lundin You make some good points, but I like that Slate highlights that the way it was communicated was frustrating. Whether at SO or at work, it's good to have your ego deflated a bit, but especially when it is done kindly. I love that the top item in SE's "Expected Behaviour" is be nice. The other side of the coin is that we can't jump in assuming that every new user has an inflated ego. Some will be suffering from years of mental health challenges, and not in a good place to 'take it on the chin'. Being kind/nice is the best place to start Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 11:39
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    @SteveTaylor On the other hand, SO is quite polite and civil compared to the average social media out there. Chances are that if you don't have thick enough skin to use SO, you might not have thick enough skin to use the rest of the Internet either.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 12:54
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    @Lundin - it's also quite polite and civil compared to schools or prison, but none of these has really got anything to do with the culture we're building together on SE. Our shared vision of 'expected behaviour' is the bar to measure it all by, so let's not lower it unless we really want to. If somebody isn't emotionally or mentally ready for other Internet sites but can feel safe on SE, that's a win in my book. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 14:08
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I got question-banned. Then I learned. Asking on Stack Overflow is a privilege, not a right. That sentence isn't emphasised as much as it should be. NOTE: It wasnt just a single question, I asked several all very poorly written which resulted in the automatic question ban.

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  • You were suspended for asking a question? Was it against the ToS/CoC then, or do you refer to the automatic question ban?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:03
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    @OlegValteriswithUkraine No idea, Question was poorly formatted as well as possible a duplicate, and there were prob like 3 such question of mine. So the suspension was valid. It was a while ago so I dont remember all the details, but I was in the wrong ofc Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:04
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    Ah, the automatic question ban then - the term suspension is commonly understood to refer to what you manually get when mods determine that you violated the rules (there are also review suspensions, but that's its own can of worms) of the network in some way, so I wanted to clarify.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:07
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    "Asking on Stack Overflow is a privilege, not a right" - quoted for truth. The first question experience is often dictated by your knowledge and understanding of how asking a question is a last resort, it is not the primary function of the site.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 16:20
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    Not to denigrate your experience, but this is factually incorrect: no user is ever question-banned for a single question, so this cannot accurately represent your experience asking your first question here.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 1:19
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    @CodyGray It is factual that you didnt read everything. I stated in the comments that there were several poor question. Not just one. Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 7:11
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    I see. I confess that I didn't read all of the comments, I only read the answer. The way the answer is worded, it implies that your experience asking your first question was that you "got question-banned".
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 7:34
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I'll chime in because I think my first question experience was probably very different than others.

I had already used Stack Overflow to find answers before, but during an internship I ran into a problem neither I nor my mentor could solve. My mentor was well versed with Stack Overflow and helped me polish my question until it fit all of the guidelines before I posted.

The question was well received and I got my answer.

He explained the rules to me and encouraged me to participate in the community. I've been lurking on meta ever since.

It is not easily implemented, but I think if everyone had the privilege of an in-person SO guide, the onboarding process would be much easier!

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    See also this suggestion for an opt-in mentorship program
    – Chris
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 11:04
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    Yeah, if only the site didn't have millions of active users. Think of what could be possible if the site was really small scale, the size of say... a classroom. But it isn't possible, we have to deal with this monstrosity instead.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 12:49
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    I would put emphasis on in-person. Talking to (possibly anonymous/pseudonymous) strangers while being anonymous/pseudonymous themselves is a vastly different experience.. imo.
    – Nuclear241
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 18:43
  • The only comparable thing I could see at scale is if SO hosted "community outreach representatives" to give an introduction to best practices, in either college or at companies. The representatives would just be volunteers with a proven track record on SO, hopefully people at those organizations themselves.
    – code11
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 18:47
  • But honestly, SO should just do a better job of explaining its rules :) They have control of the whole process from account creation to post writing. There is no excuse.
    – code11
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 18:48
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I asked my first question ~12 years ago. If I recall correctly, the guidance at that time on how best to ask a question on SO was:

"Try not ask a question here."

Followed by a list of steps to try first:

  • Paste the error into a search engine
  • Explain it to a duck
  • Write a simpler example of the problem

Then, if I had done all those things, and still hadn't make progress, then it was time to ask a question, and I'd have all this good material to use in the question. So many questions that I almost asked, got answered by either the search engine or the duck!

When I finally had a question to ask that blew past those 3 first steps, I got an answer within minutes.

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    Honestly, even as a relatively new user who complains about downvotes and unfriendly culture, I would prefer if all the new onboarding stuff was replaced with just this message in big bold text. It sets expectations in an honest way that feels like it would be much more effective. Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 14:10
  • Seriously, this is the best. I think some of the answers to SO's current problems lie in SO's past.
    – Matt Mc
    Commented May 21, 2022 at 23:15
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I've been a member for only 6 months, so my user experience is quite recent. I started out by answering other questions, before I asked my own. I asked my first question in August 2021. And the response was; well, impersonal. For two days, it sat; no votes, no comments, only a few views. Then, I got a comment from the Community Bot saying that my question wasn't clear enough. To this day, the question has no votes, no more comments, only a few views1.

I do admit, looking back on it now that I've learned more, the question is quite broad. If I saw someone else post that question now, I'd probably downvote it, thinking that it's not a great question, and is too broad to answer.

And yes, I was quite nervous about asking my first question. The tags I frequent (, ) have a lot of new users asking poor-quality/duplicate questions, so I'd seen a good deal of questions that had a negative net score, and many that were closed. I was fearing the worst; but while that didn't happen, the best didn't happen either.

Which brings me to another point: my user experience was better than some for a couple reasons.

  1. I'd already used Stack Overflow to solve coding problems, so I had an idea of what it was like.
  2. I'm (I admit it) a bit of a sucker for rules, so reading the tour and the Help Center, and following the regulations, came quite naturally to me.

So, all in all, my experience has been rather neutral. But it's always good to bear in mind: many (not necessarily all) new users look up to you genius high-rep users, and there are few things more crushing than being looked down on by someone you look up to. I'll try to keep that in mind when commenting on low-quality posts, and I think y'all should too.


1. The question is now deleted, with one downvote, due attention drawn to it by this answer.

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    "doesn't quite deserve a downvote, and is too broad to answer" That is a contradiction.
    – philipxy
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 23:04
  • 3
    @philipxy Correct. Updated my answer :-). I also deleted the question, since, now that it's being talked about on Meta, it's receiving more attention (which brought it to my attention). I really should have deleted it long ago, but it wasn't foremost in my mind until I saw this Meta question. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 23:37
  • 2
    "...the question has no votes, no more comments, only a few views..." There are really a lot of these questions. If they do not get immediate attention after creation and do not generate a lot of traffic, they might be sleeping for a long time. There is an automatic cleanup for downvoted questions (roomba) but un-voted, un-commented questions are basically unknown unknowns. If people have time they should dedicate themselves to these questions and try to at least vote or comment once on them. That would probably be very useful. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 12:16
  • 1
    @Trilarion Agreed. However, that way is probably less attractive for some users, because there's less of a guaranteed return (in the form of reputation). Also, depending of course on the age of the questions you look at, some may not be relevant any more. I do enjoy occasionally going through and looking at old gtk questions, and I have answered a few; maybe I should do that more often, and with more tags. I complain about low-quality posts on SO, but the search bar does give me the ability to ignore those low-quality posts if I want to. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 17:23
  • 2
    Sidenote: prefer to improve a question to deleting it because deleted questions are the invisible part of the iceberg that sunk many a question-asker to the bottom of the Question Ban Sea. Some questions cant be improved, but when possible, improve. Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 19:13
  • @user4581301 Sound advice. I do prefer to improve the question when possible, but that particular question is not improvable given its coding circumstances. You can view it yourself if you like (since you have >10k rep), so you can see what I mean. Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 19:32
19

I'm still fairly new to Stack Overflow. In fact, I asked my first question less than three weeks ago. I found it easy to initiate the question-asking process, although wording my question in an acceptable way (i.e., such that it would post) was a bit tricky. I received a helpful answer from user @rdelrossi rather quickly. Great first experience!

19

My initial experience was great, due to several factors.

I started by answering, not asking, in areas where I was experienced developer, and accumulated some initial reputation rather quickly.

Looking back, there is definitely one thing that I was completely unaware until much later, even long after I have unlocked close vote privilege. And that was a post ban. I knew there were some rules about which questions can be asked, and I knew that answer section is not for comments, and that you get downvoted for poor or off-topic posts, but I never knew that doing so may prevent you from posting again.

This is critical information that is not presented to new users. I have read the tour and I have read the help section. Only when I started to participate in SOCVR and on SO Meta I realized the full implications of posting unsuitable content (that is not spam).

Additionally, the fact that there are some rules for asking questions I knew more by luck and because I was visiting SO for years before I joined, and not because the site did excellent job in presenting those rules when I finally joined and started posting.

I would definitely have paid more attention to what I was posting if I had known more about the strictness of the rules. Not because I would be especially afraid to participate nor would that stop me from participating, but because some of my initial posts could have been better or shouldn't have been posted at all - for instance answering poor or off-topic questions.

17

My first question is probably a massive outlier.

I joined Stack Overflow in 2012, in my final year of university having spent the last ~9 years on the internet making a fool of myself and learning how to conduct myself the hard-way.

People can't wait ~9 years to learn how Stack Exchange works though.


My first few questions that I asked were in . My guess is that tag has a different user base, that rarely got questions, so I was welcomed differently. No body had asked what was a very simple question, so it got one slightly snarky comment (probably deserved) and a good clear answer.

I'm extra cautious when asking in JavaScript these days, even with all my experience; I know what to expect.

But if I had joined SO at the same age I'd joined the internet I'd have had a much much worse time. There's no proving ground, or casual forum environment to cut your teeth on where the stakes or investment is lower (the three main places I browsed early on were all traditional non-Q&A forums).

7
  • I had a similar path but my first introduction into the site was not to ask questions, I wanted to answer them because I came from the casual forum environment - and started to treat SO in exactly the same way. Your background does not really help to prevent misuse of the site, but it does help when you have learned the discipline to assume you may be mistaken when things don't go your way. That is what I miss in a lot of newcomers, they come to the site expecting the site to bend to their will. And then get upset when it doesn't and they have to learn a big pile of rules.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 16:25
  • Well, SO does have casual and low-stakes environments, like chat and some parts of Meta...but they're all walled off behind Rep requirements that deliberately exclude new users.
    – samuei
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 14:24
  • @samuei yeah that's an issue right? Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 15:38
  • @AncientSwordRage Definitely
    – samuei
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 21:52
  • 1
    No it isn't, you need only very little reputation to open them up globally. They are walled off with a purpose, the same purpose of why the site has a tiered system for opening up site features to you. And the simplest explanation really is that people need to be triggered to ask "why?" - and seek out the answer.
    – Gimby
    Commented Mar 14, 2022 at 14:56
  • 1
    @Gimby in my experience either the wall is too low (a user who isn't prepared on how to ask and/or answer gets through 'early') or it's too high (first-time user who is prepared has to answer as a comment or make nugatory edits to get around this wall). Rep is a bad indicator for experience with anything but this website's nuances Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 12:48
  • 1
    @AncientSwordRage: "nugatory" – Thanks for teaching me a new word! :)
    – V2Blast StaffMod
    Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 17:16
15

I asked my first question in October 2018. It went fine. I quickly received a helpful answer. And, the same was true for my next 6 or 7 questions. That said, SO isn't my first rodeo. I've participated on numerous technical forums over 2 decades (both asking and answering complicated questions). So, I know how to research problems, and how to ask a good question.

It wasn't until question #8 (or so) that I encountered that "Stack Overflow attitude" I've read about. :-) I was trying to figure out the steps to decode a bitmask with bitwise operations. However I didn't know what a bitmask was, so I used poor wording to ask my question. (When you don't know the jargon, it's hard to ask a good question.) The question was closed as a duplicate, so I can't reference it.

Here is my complaint: the referenced "duplicates" didn't answer my question. In fact, they had nothing to do with my question. I even commented that they weren't helpful. User comments weren't helpful either. Eventually there were enough votes to close and it was gone. As a result, I didn't learn anything to improve my question and gave up. :-(

When the need returned, I did more googling and eventually learned enough to ask a decent question (including 'bitmask" and 'bitwise operations' were the magic bullets). I got 5 helpful answers. :-) (Who says there's 1 obvious way to do something in Python?!?)

Based on this, a process to improve questions should provide guidance to:

  1. Improve the questions, and
  2. Improve the feedback intended to improve the question.
9
  • 3
    It seems the referenced duplicates encouraged you to do the research necessary to ask a useful question, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's very difficult to have a conversation when there's a language/terminology barrier involved.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:03
  • 3
    Scratching my head here a little - if it was only closed, why would you not be able to reference it - I assume it was deleted afterwards? If so, was it you deleting it, the cleanup script, or the community at large?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:07
  • @Oleg Valter is with Ukraine that question doesn't appear when I view "All Questions" from my SO profile. I assume it was deleted because the cleanup script deletes questions "Closed as duplicates". But, I really don't know.
    – kcw78
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:44
  • 4
    Since recently, you can view all your deleted posts in the activity tab in the respective sections - the link is at the bottom (an intentional choice by SE), btw
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:48
  • 4
    "When you don't know the jargon, it's hard to ask a good question." Only in the sense that people are not used to writing clearly & that's hard. Instead of actually clearly saying what they mean, talking about the parts of the things that they are working with & trying to accomplish, they use fuzzy abstract words & too few words, so that they do not communicate well. Jargon is not necessary. (You could remove all the bitmasky terms from your current non-deleted non-editied bitmask question & they wouldn't be missed; you aren't using them in an essential way & you are communicating.)
    – philipxy
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 22:56
  • 1
    PS It would be interesting to see your original post. (And I see that while I was composing these comments accessing it has come up.) (However in the visible post just giving suggested-duplicate links & saying "but don't answer my question" is not helpful & not communicating.) (Of course, SO Inc does not manage to communicate to users what they need to know to have a good experience.)
    – philipxy
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 23:03
  • @philipxy Sometimes it's mandatory to know the jargon ; ).
    – Teemu
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 14:03
  • 1
    @Teemu OMG I just realized I missed "Metanical Turk(ey)". PS Your "mandatory to know" is about reading, mine is about writing. Given jargon one can research. (Indeed, only given clear writing one can reasonably (re)search for jargon.) (Yes I knew that only those smelling "antidisestablishmentarianism" would get the pun "antidocumentationarianistic". Nevertheless if the pun is lost the latter still makes (some) (joking) (hyper-affixilated) sense.)
    – philipxy
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 23:41
  • I understand that people ask for some effort before posting on here, as it is obvious that nowadays you can find a lot on the internet, but I am not so sure I agree on this site using the rest of the internet as a garbage bin like "look around in those other places before even thinking in coming here". Like, if every place on the internet was like that, then how would you learn? Why does StackOverFlow have the exclusive right of being the last-resort place (so it has the best researched questions)? And what is the amount of effort required? What if someone is in a hurry?
    – S. Dre
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 12:12
15

My first question was back in 2011. I worked out a solution I wanted to share with the world, so I posted a question that had my solution within the question itself and the title had a suffix of "Solved".

I still recall the sting of being flamed for poor formatting and answering within the question itself - not realising that one could post and answer to one's own question.

But I was thick skinned enough push through onslaught and I started contributing, a lot, and never looked back.

Had I been less thick skinned, I might have run away and been put off for life.

2
  • 6
    Yes, I can relate to that. People that take negative feedback mainly as a chance to improve but are otherwise convinced of their own value have definitely an easier experience here than otherwise. What's needed is some kind of: "I will listen to your feedback, but I will always reserve my right to disagree with it." attitude. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 12:06
  • "Had I been less thick skinned, I might have run away and been put off for life" people nowadays(including myself) should learn from this.
    – Justaus3r
    Commented Mar 12, 2022 at 15:36
13

First off, I'd like to address

We have seen sites like Worldbuilding, Puzzling, and Code Golf have successfully created their own question-asking sandboxes on their meta sites.

Having been active on Puzzling when the Riddle Sandbox was implemented, it was, to begin with, an unmitigated disaster; it caused more problems than it solved. It made the whole process of asking a riddle more frustrating, opaque, and not communicated well.

After it was no longer mandatory to use the Riddle Sandbox, it became a more useful resource where users could give feedback on questions before they were posted, identifying possible improvements or flaws in the way the riddle was posed.


As for the first question I ever posted on SE, it was closed as a duplicate. It was a frustrating experience, because the question it was closed as was not the same question that I asked. It was closed because an answer on the proposed duplicate question answered the question that I had asked. It's an annoying policy that wasn't communicated clearly at the time, and one I've been fighting for the past seven and a half years, with little success. (To clarify: In this particular instance the closure was justified. There are other cases on SFF where "it's answered in this other question" is used as rationale for duplicate closure where the questions have nothing to do with each other but the answer happens to be the same. That's where my issue lies, aside from the poor UX around dupe closure in '14.)

10
  • 14
    In regards to your duplicate, having the same answer in multiple places is a never helpful. If the same answer answers (slightly) different questions, then closing as a dupe and having the (hopefully) well asked duplicate act as a sign post is a much better UX.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 19:25
  • 2
    It was mandatory? Ouch! Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 20:25
  • 5
    @Larnu Perhaps you were using hyperbole in your "never", but I can certainly think of situations where this isn't true. For instance, I've seen situations where the existing answer is one good solution to the second question, but it's not the only (or necessarily best) one. And the other solutions are completely inapplicable to the first.
    – M. Justin
    Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 21:17
  • 2
    I really don't get the second part of your answer. You're complaining about the fact that your question got closed as a dupe of a slightly different question where the accepted answer perfectly answers your question? You got a great answer but got frustrated - why, because it wasn't under "your" question?
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 13:37
  • 2
    @l4mpi - No; once I found the answer it was fine. It was frustrating because what a duplicate was, or why I was being told that "this has been answered at <question title that wasn't specifically what I was asking about>", wasn't being clearly communicated. The UX around that has changed pretty significantly since 2014, though.
    – Mithical
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 13:45
  • @Mithical ah, that makes more sense. I don't remember the old UI but I don't remember it being significantly worse. But well, once you understand what a dupe is everything but the link to the duplicate becomes fluff, so maybe my brain just filtered the bad UI parts out.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 14:10
  • 2
    @Mithical this is a good point because a lot of people don't read the duplicate they just see the title in the comment and start complaining "it's not a duplicate of that!". When raising a duplicate flag I tend to try and edit the comment before the 5-minute edit window is up to add some context to why I'm flagging it as a duplicate.
    – user692942
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 19:47
  • 2
    @Larnu, sorry I can't agree with you. If I'm googling to find solutions to my problem, the fact that there is a solution in an answer to an otherwise unrelated question will not help me-- I won't find the answer unless I'm already including terms from that (for me still unknown) solution in my search. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 9:24
  • 3
    @ChristopherHamkins no, you find the sign post from your search, which takes you to the dupe, and would mean the system is working... Good duplicate questions aren't deleted, they can, in fact, even continue to attract upvotes because they are good and then the (duplicate) questions they lead to and their answers also then get upvotes.
    – Thom A
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 9:25
  • 2
    This problem wouldn't be a problem if the closure message specified the answer that is relevant, rather than the question that isn't. While this is can be handled with a comment specifying the answer to look at, it frequently isn't, which makes the closure seem unfair to the user and increases SO's reputation out in the world of closing everything as a duplicate of a completely unrelated question.
    – samuei
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 14:35
11

My first question was bad, because I didn't read something. And, especially when reviewing, I'm seeing a lot of people without any badge, which means a lot of people that have their post in the review queue didn't take the tour. And I think that, without the new question creation workflow, it can be an important issue.

People, such as me at the beginning, make basic mistakes explained in other posts here, such as don't show what they tried, don't show the actual working code or not enough explaining the issue.

The experience can only be better by taking the time to read resources or help people to do as the resource said, but without reading them.

Also, the "duplicate" field always proposes low upvoted posts instead of very upvoted ones and don't show very relevant ones. Which also makes new askers think that they can help the site, such as they are coming with a new question (which is—in lot of cases—wrong).

0
11

I don't post on Stack Overflow often -- sometimes there's more than a year between two of my questions -- so I feel like I'm a first time poster almost every time. And the experience is the same to me most of the time.

When I post here, it's usually because I'm stuck with something, I've spent hours reading through documentation and trying various solutions, but to no avail.

As a last resort, I reach out to the online forum which is known for being helpful. However, the experience is quite ironic. In order to have my question considered good enough, I have to read through Stack Overflow's codes of conducts and user guides. And even after doing so, the act of posting a question and getting a constructive answer will still take quite some trial and error from my side.

In other words: finding help is sometimes a tedious process, which I am not prepared for at a moment where the tedium of the problem has made me all but give up.

It's of course important for a website like Stack Overflow to maintain a certain standard of high-quality questions. My personal feeling is that this is something that needs to be weighed against the need to make a friendly and approachable impression towards new users, and this balance has always felt off during the 10+ years that I have been using this site.

Once you're an established user who has a good grasp on how the website works, this place is fantastic. But you're a new user, already demotivated by the problem you're facing, the experience does leave some things to be desired.

13
  • 1
    "However, the experience is quite ironic. In order to have my question considered good enough, I have to read through Stackoverflow's codes of conducts and user guides." I fail to see the irony in that? Isn't that how all websites work?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:07
  • 7
    @Cerberus If you're someone who simply treats people with respect and who refrains from controversial behavior, you can use any online forum without ever needing to read the rules in detail. This is in part because users know that every online forum largely uses the same set of rules. You can blame the user for taking an assumption on that, of course. What I am pointing out is that Stackoverflow is an exception to this. Instead of entering a constructive discussion with the user, we tell them to read documentation or tag their question as problematic, and that's it.
    – Lee White
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:12
  • 4
    Well, yes, but that's because of the sheer quantity of questions SO gets. The users that answer here, all volunteers, don't have time to enter a constructive discussion with each and every author of a lacking question.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:20
  • 4
    @Cerbrus I have addressed this point in the second-to-last paragraph of my original answer. I am not here to convince you; I am here to share my experience as asked in the above question. The mere fact that you are trying to invalidate my experience is a fitting example of the point that I am trying to make.
    – Lee White
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:30
  • 3
    I'm not trying to "invalidate" your experience. I'm trying to provide an explanation.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 8:36
  • 2
    Re "I've spent hours reading through documentation and trying various solutions": Does that imply also searching for similar questions on Stack Overflow (not a rhetorical question)? Why or why not? (It can be nontrivial to find such questions.) Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 14:00
  • 7
    @PeterMortensen I can't speak for everyone, but in my case I'm inclined to say it does. For me, the typical escalation path of a problem is: 1: read documentation, 2: search on google, 3: search on specific forums (including StackOverflow), 4: post on a forum. I'm a typical software engineer in the sense that I don't ask questions when I haven't explored my own possibilities yet, but that also means that I'm typically at wit's end whenever I do reach the point of asking a question.
    – Lee White
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 14:14
  • 4
    @LeeWhite Stack Overflow search has never been great, just combine 2. and 3. into site:stackoverflow.com your search as your Google search and you'll get far better results.
    – user692942
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 19:29
  • 2
    "But you're a new user, already demotivated by the problem you're facing, the experience does leave some things to be desired." That's why in already in 2015 some people proposed StackOverflow Academy, a place to learn how to write good questions that will be well received. At the time the idea was rejected. Maybe it would have helped a bit. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 11:30
  • 2
    @Trilarion I don't think something like this will help. Because many newcomers treat SO as tutorial site, or something like this. One thing is posting bad question, other thing is spamming and asking for help before trying to learn programming or going to college; some comments are harsh for reason. I never posted anything on Maths or Physics site, not because I was never interested, but because I don't know this topics too well to make meaningful contribution. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 13:00
  • 8
    @LazarĐorđević There used to be a "minimal understanding required" close reason, but that was abandoned and now you can ask even the most basic question, but only once and chances are incredibly large it has been asked already. So yes, asking a good new question is incredibly difficult. SO is mostly meant for reading and editing, a bit like Wikipedia. It's not an "ask anything" service. That's probably the common misconception. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 13:18
  • 2
    @Trilarion To but it very bluntly, that comes down to the fact that Stackoverflow looks and functions like a typical Q&A website but its community doesn't want it to be used as one. I do not think that the website can ever get rid of that perception from new users, so long as it continues to offer asking/answering open-ended questions as its main functionality.
    – Lee White
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 20:07
  • 1
    @LeeWhite Bluntness appreciated. I understand that and that's why I have given up reviewing, voting and answering new questions already some time ago unless I stumble by accident upon one I really like and feel like it. Everyone uses or doesn't use SO as he/she sees fit. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 22:30
11

I asked my first question in 2012 after I had come to Stack Overflow for many times as a visitor. My first question got a downvote right after, but later also got upvotes. I continued asking and starting answering and also flagging and reviewing. After a couple of attempts I got the hang of it and it all made sense. I have learned how to ask and answer good questions here.

Issues I remember:

  • I was totally surprised at the speed of the feedback. First downvote within a minute, comments within 5-10 minutes. I still tried to figure out how to answer the first comment, when I already got the second one and an answer. Maybe slowing down things a bit, would have helped there. The parallelism of feedback overwhelmed me. Later I learned to stay online and reactive right after any contribution.
  • The formatting of my first contributions was not optimal. I used "P.S." to add information to questions. I should have just inserted additional information in the question.
  • Searching for existing information was always a major part of the effort, even more so than just presenting the question. I would basically first search for the issue, then write up the question, then search again and maybe find an answer and cancel the question asking process.

What could have helped me:

  • Optimally timed feedback
  • Clear feedback on optimal layout
  • Strong advice emphasizing the importance of research (should now be even more important than then)
6
  • 2
    "slower feedback"? How would that be achievable without rate limiting interactions of other users with the question? It would not make sense for DVs/CVs, which are a form of feedback. Wouldn't work for comments either, because SO would need to automatically decide which comments are useful (e.g. trivial version- and data-ambiguous python questions with incomplete code regularily get comments asking about the version or input data before someone mentions the missing code parts, if you rate limit this it might effectively just block the few useful comments).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 13:46
  • 6
    @l4mpi "How would that be achievable without rate limiting" Do view selection instead. Do not show all new questions to all users but only a random subset to everyone. Show preferably uncommented, unvoted questions. Anyway, I just wrote what I experienced and what might have helped me there, because I was simply too slow for the speed of SO and if I would have had more time, maybe some other feedback would not have been needed. Not sure if this is still the same nowadays. Others, especially younger ones here seem to have experienced rather silence and would be happy to get a comment or vote. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 15:38
  • 2
    I can second that (even now) the rate of feedback can be too much. People end up tripping over themselves to comment or completely ignoring the question at times Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 21:06
  • 4
    @AncientSwordRage Problem might be that we immediately bump a question upon activity. That might be wrong. Maybe we should bump it only after some time. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 21:20
  • 1
    I think slower feedback is a misnomer, it is a means to an end. The end is to have clearer feedback.
    – Passer By
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 6:44
  • 2
    @PasserBy Just tried to describe a problem I faced and a possible solution. Instead of slow one could maybe settle on optimal. I want to make the point that timing of feedback can be an issue and that there might be an optimal timing. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 7:12
10

What threw me off was the experience of writing a first question on a different SE site, as an experienced user on another.

Because they are all SE sites, a user might expect that they would "work" in similar ways, and the user's experience on SO would translate to knowing how the other SE works.

However on the network, I found SE sites can operate quite differently depending on the mods and 'culture' and what is seen to be a good question, and even what is not off-topic despite the SE name, among other things.

As a moderately experienced SO user who would think they know how to write an acceptable question, my first-question experiences on various network sites have been a mixed bag.

Some SE's are quite challenging to write a first question on that will be well-received (Travel.SE, for example) while others are quite lenient and helpful.

Especially if you think you know how to write a good question, you end up spending half an hour or more writing the first question on a new SE, and then that rankles a lot more if the question gets summarily closed without the chance to receive answers.

(Should time taken by the user to write/edit the question be displayed or considered as a metric?)

At the end of the day new users care more about receiving an answer as a one-to-one transaction between them and the answerer, rather than about site norms and the content being helpful to other readers.

So new users can be left with a feeling that if only the busybodies didn't interfere, someone or the other would have answered, regardless of question quality.

4
  • 10
    Yeah, this is a huge, huge problem. At some point, the moderators and/or "communities" on other SE sites decided that they could subvert the Q&A model that was established by Stack Overflow (and the other trilogy sites), creating policies that are, in some cases, in direct contradiction to fundamental and strongly-held beliefs of the core Stack Exchange platform. This has done untold harm, and resulted in endless confusion and conflict.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 12, 2022 at 4:52
  • "time taken by the user" - nah, simply not worth the hassle. If a user leaves the tab open for two weeks, then submits the question, does this tell us anything useful? Nope, the question might still be utter crap, and even the information presented would be false to begin with. The rest of the answer is fine, IMO
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 12, 2022 at 15:41
  • 1
    @Oleg Valter is with Ukraine: Statistically it could make sense (the example would be an outlier, easily filtered out) Commented Mar 13, 2022 at 13:59
  • 1
    @PeterMortensen yeah, I was trying to express that an indicator of time spent writing a post is not a reliable source for how much effort a user put into the post - the user could've spent half the time making coffee, falling asleep on their keyboard (with many questikns it seems exactly like what happened), you name it. We could start tracking time with screenshots like freelance platforms, that would be fun :)
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 14, 2022 at 9:35
9

I asked my first question in 2019. I was in a class taught by a mentor of mine, and he also didn't know the answer to my problem. I got 7 up-votes on that question, which really surprised me, as I had heard pretty awful things about the SO community.

Asking my question in person first really helped me boil down my question to its core components and reduce scope. I think that some of the questions I've asked since then could have really benefited from that. I'll try to consult my rubber ducky before posting my next question.

Another thing that I think helped my question succeed was that I specified what I was trying to do on an appropriately low level. I didn't ask "How do I write code that does "High Level Result"?". Instead I asked "I'm trying to use "Specific Language Feature", but having this issue. How if at all can I use "Specific Language Feature" here?".

What helped me understand that I should ask my question that way was having read about the philosophy behind SO. I feel like emphasizing that for new users could be very helpful.

1
  • 3
    Thank you for the hint "I'm trying to use "Specific Language Feature", but having this issue. How if at all can I use "Specific Language Feature" here?", will keep it in mind. Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 20:22
8

The first time I asked a question on SO, I had a really vexing problem getting my Ruby script to generate a GUI correctly. It was the first time in several years that I had used Ruby so I took my time writing the question to make sure I was including all the details that might be relevant. Before I completed writing the question, I saw a sidebar that listed a couple of potentially-related questions. One looked promising, but upon further inspection it wasn't quite the same issue. That question did however have an entry in its "related questions" list that answered my question exactly. My first question was over before it was ever asked.

My first several dozen questions all ended the same way. I found that if I wrote a detailed question, the suggested posts would either answer my question or lead me to the answer in fewer than three hops. The sheer amount of good content on here means it took me quite a while to find a question that wasn't already answered. At some point, I stumbled across a comment where someone described some of SO's advanced search syntax (tags, etc). Once I learned how to do that and how to use google/duckduckgo to search the site, I got a lot better at finding answers to my questions before trying to ask them.

My first couple of questions that actually got asked all went the same way. I had been reading and answering questions on SO for several years at that point, and had seen plenty of examples of bad or unanswerable questions. I knew how much time many people (myself included) put into writing a quality answer, so I wasn't going to just slap together a question in a minute and expect someone to spend 10x that long on a quality answer. I set aside about 20 minutes to write up my question, re-read and proofread it, and ensure that it contained all the information needed to understand the issue while not being overly verbose. By the next morning, I had a couple of answers and comments already. Definitely a pleasant surprise. My first questions were on fairly niche topics so I wasn't expecting a lot of activity. Some were even from fairly high-reputation users, which felt particularly nice.

The order in which I participated on SO really had an impact on my experience. I spent a long time answering questions before I ever asked one. That meant I already had firsthand experience both with answers people valued and accepted, and with answers that were largely ignored. I was able to read a question and have a good instinct about whether it contained enough information for me to write an answer that people would find useful. I had seen questions that made you just want to answer them, and others that made you hit the "back" button after reading halfway through. That kind of knowledge enabled me to write questions that were received better than someone who doesn't even create an account until they need to ask a question. I also felt like other users were more likely to answer a question posted by a user with a non-trivial amount of reputation than a question by a fresh account with single-digit reputation (and on the flipside, users who have answered several questions seem significantly less likely to ask bad questions).

The other big thing that impacted my overall experience was searching. When searching for a programming topic on Google, SO content tends to be in the first couple of results. As you click on SO content more and more, the Google algorithm starts showing you more and more SO content in your search results. At the suggestion of a coworker, I started using DuckDuckGo instead of Google when searching for programming-related topics. I still get plenty of SO content, but it seems to be much better about including official documentation, relevant blogs, etc. in the first page of results. These non-SO results are the type of content that we tend to point people to when they post extremely low-quality questions. I've always been curious how many of the low-quality questions get asked by people who came here from Google and have been filter-bubbled to the point where it's hard for them to find answers anywhere else. They get here, the site's built-in search doesn't help much, and they throw together a question not knowing what else to do.

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  • "not knowing what else to do" Maybe we could point them to official documentation instead. So as soon as they enter tags, we give them a list of official documentation related to the tags (from the tag wikis maybe) and ask them to consider searching there too before posting their question. Even if only a low percentage of new questions doesn't need to be asked because of that, it might be worthwhile. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 11:42
  • 1
    @Trilarion That would indeed be a nice enhancement to the tag wikis. Something like that might have existed when the "SO Documentation" project was active, but it would be helpful if we had that functionality now.
    – bta
    Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 16:19
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    I like your answer very much, I'm happy to learn I wasn't the only one writing a question for several minutes to find out the answer already exists (a couple dozen times for me), thanks to related topics crawling. Each time I felt immediate horror spike feeling followed by a deep relief "thank God I didn't click that Post button" (plus the bonus solution to my issue). Your experience (the way you share it) deserve to figure in a documentary video about SO, "What is it for and how to use it", ie, don't wait to have a question to ask to participate.. and also, never skip the "search more" phase. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 23:12
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My first question ended up fine, but only because the question happens to interest some people and they had the patience to tell me how to write a question on SO. Despite the common sentiment that newcomers won't ever read a guide, I did look for one but never found it. You had to know SO pretty well to know how to crawl through meta and that caused unnecessary friction on both sides.

What really stung was a later attempt at a Q&A. It sucked. And it got deleted. The sad part was that it was decent content that took a lot of effort, but not in a format fit for SO. There is no reason that should happen, that someone determined to contribute and wanted to conform to community standards, couldn't.

In both cases, I took negative feedback way too personally. It may be obvious from the perspective of experienced users that the feedback is aimed at the post, but it isn't at all clear to a newcomer, especially one new to the interwebz. I have no idea why I stuck around, and I can understand if someone just gives up after such ordeals.

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My experience was just fine. But I was already a programming veteran when SO appeared, so my experience is not typical.

I'm actually writing this answer because I have a general objection to the idea that it is possible to make the first question on a general Q&A site a good experience.

The first time you do anything is rarely a good experience.

First time playing the violin, your first dance, your first marriage, you name it. You have no clue, and it shows. That's unavoidable. Don't try to "sugarcoat" it. Sure, the reactions should not be actively mean. But:

It is not only unavoidable but desirable that people tell you that you have no clue.

We really don't want your next question be equally stupid. Most good first questions have one thing in common: They were not asked.

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    "First time playing the violin, your first dance, your first marriage, you name it. You have no clue, and it shows. That's unavoidable. Don't try to "sugar-code" it." That's totally contrary to all music teachers I have ever witnessed. When they teach someone how to learn a music instrument they will praise the learner a lot during the initial time. Actually incredibly much. But then they get paid for it, so it may be a different thing. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 11:50
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    @Trilarion Yes, it's their job to help the novices take the first steps. Is that the mission of SO, respectively SO's users -- us -- who constitute SO? Because SO is nothing but their users (and a clever gamification idea, and some code to implement it). I suppose that's the direction SO's owners are trying to nudge us into. I'm not particularly happy about it. And I don't mind helping the occasional newcomer, especially if their question cannot be directly answered by googling the keywords. It's just not the funnest part of SO; it's not the reason I'm here. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 11:57
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    Something I'm not the only one thinking of: Perhaps we need an SO "bunny slope" where people are getting help with the first steps from users who know what to expect. Doesn't have to be a different sub (sub) stack -- even a "beginner" tag would help (but the idea was not well received). Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 11:58
  • One way or another, for SO you are simply an unpaid volunteer. When they talk about idealistic goals like "open information" then they probably do not really mean it. Their goals might be different from your goals. See for example: Who is the customer for the main site? Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 12:00
  • 1
    One of the better received proposals is Create a separate, independent advanced Stack Overflow, focusing on being a knowledge library (but still part of the network). And Jeff Atwood supports it: "There needs to be a beginner version of Stack Overflow." Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 14:58
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I prepared for the worst and hoped for the best, knowing of Stack Overflow's reputation. The site just expects a certain kind of work beforehand. So, knowing that, I read through the guide on how to ask a question, and everything worked fine.

After a few years here, I only got a handful of negative experiences, so I guess people should be bit more thick-skinned.

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    Re "The site just expects a certain kind of work beforehand.": That is a very succinct way of saying it. It could even be served to new users. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 11:55
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    SO has a very friendly reputation compared to, say, the reputation of Usenet's comp.lang.c. Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 17:05
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    "so I guess people should be bit more thick-skinned." Reads like "I was ok, so clearly it's other people who have an issue." Which is really unempathetic Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 21:08
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    Which is really unempathetic: Can hardly argue that, but I stand by my comment.
    – Gh05d
    Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 22:47
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I asked my first question in 2013. With the exception of a bit of unnecessary fluff (that was edited out by another user, to my great surprise at the time) it was well-formatted, clean and simple. It quickly got some upvotes and made me feel great about myself. I also received a clear and straightforward answer within a few minutes of asking, so this was about as perfect a first experience as you can get.

If I recall correctly, I was a lurker for a fair while before asking that question and I definitely understood the Q&A format.

I asked my second question only a few hours later and was disappointed that it wasn't upvoted, however it did get a good answer almost immediately so it was still useful.


If I were to post that first question today, I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't immediately downvoted. I would hope that it would get marked a duplicate, but my gut is telling me it would just get downvoted and that's all.

I have the sense that people were vastly more eager to get rep and help out back in 2013 than they are today. That's probably true, given there were less users, less terrible questions and less fatigue back then. I expect the novelty has well and truly worn off.

My personal experience is that asking a question today is terrifying and incredibly frustrating. I absolutely detest it. Even when I know it's a reasonable question and do my very best to ask well, there's a high chance that someone won't read it properly and will just do a drive-by downvote. That's their right, of course, but after the first downvote, it's much less likely to get an answer (or at the very least, feels that way). I'm firmly of the opinion that people are far too quick to downvote or closevote. My assumption is that this behaviour stems from the high number of poor questions in general, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating to the asker when the downvoter clearly didn't even take the time to read the question.

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    While often repeated, I've never seen any actual evidence that downvoted questions are less likely to receive an answer. Nor does it match with my experience. You are also wearing rose-colored glasses when looking back on 2013. I was there; plenty of questions got closed and downvoted, perhaps even more than now, because the scale of questions did not yet vastly outstrip the number of people with privileges to curate them. Fatigue at the volume of low-quality questions was a big thing, too, even back then. Not much has really changed.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 5:34
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    @CodyGray Rather than rose-coloured glasses, I would say these days I'm just more aware of how bad it feels to get instantly downvoted. As far as negative-score questions getting more or less answers... well I have no data to support that. It's just how it feels. You know that someone, somewhere thinks your question is bad, but is too high and mighty to bother explaining how or why. You're stuck hours-deep in a problem but someone only takes 2.5 seconds to scan your question, downvote and move on. It seems completely reasonable that if one person downvoted, probably others will too.
    – Clonkex
    Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 6:08
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    I know it sounds like I'm just being melodramatic, and rationally I agree completely, but when you've spent hours searching for an answer and it seems like you're the only person who's ever been confused by this, by the time you finally succumb and ask a question on SO, it doesn't take much to make you want to give up and cry. At least, that's my experience. It sounds really pathetic, but I'm certain that my experience isn't unusual so I think it's worth saying.
    – Clonkex
    Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 6:10
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    I'm still puzzled at why downvoting would feel so bad. I mean, being downvoted on SO wasn't the first time someone ever disagreed with me, or thought I was being unclear, so it wasn't exactly an eye-opening experience. "but is too high and mighty to bother explaining how or why" Nah, they just think the tooltip on the downvote arrow already provides an adequate explanation. Our own problems always seem more serious to us than they do to others; that's just life. Also, being hours-deep in a problem also tends to negatively impact our communication skills, so that's worth keeping in mind.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 7:02
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    @CodyGray "still puzzled at why downvoting would feel so bad" I think it's simply because you don't get a chance to defend yourself. Someone says "this is bad/incorrect/not worth responding to" but then walks away with their hands over their ears. Pretty unpleasant after you put so much effort into distilling the issue and writing the question. "being hours-deep in a problem also tends to negatively impact our communication skills" 100%, I completely agree. I always try to write the question and then come back later and re-read it before posting. Same with writing messages while angry.
    – Clonkex
    Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 9:30
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    @CodyGray Downvoting feels bad because you aren't posting an opinion on Reddit, you're asking for help. Getting a downvote with no comment - along with a little notification that you've lost rep to guarantee you know about every downvote - is someone saying "I don't think this person deserves even the minor help of searching for a duplicate". I know all the standard replies to this, and none of them actually address the issue of the new user experience. As another answer said, asking a question by definition happens from ignorance. All the standard replies assume knowledge. Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 13:46
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    In a participant-centric perspective, it may seem counterintuitive to let people downvote without providing feedback. The thing is, Stack Overflow is primarily content-centric, so it is not that focused on the asker. It is important for everyone else that voting is frictionless, so that people in general obtain an aggregated rating of the post based on its quality and usefulness. As such, it's really best not to take downvotes personally. And if you are desperately in need of help after a closed question, there are other venues which can give you more of a helpdesk experience.
    – E_net4
    Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 14:41
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    @E_net4standswithUkraine "Stack Overflow is primarily content-centric" true, but that doesn't solve the awful experience part, and we can't insist it does when no new user gets it.
    – Passer By
    Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 19:01
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    @E_net4standswithUkraine "it's really best not to take downvotes personally." While I've been on both sides of that particular coin, when it actually comes time to ask a question, it's not possible (at least for me) to not take it personally. I mean, how could one not? A downvote says "your question is bad". Even if you're new and don't know how to ask a good question, imagine the real-life equivalent: you walk into a group and take your chair in the circle, then timidly ask your question. Everyone just frowns and says "wow, what a stupid question". Way to make you feel bad.
    – Clonkex
    Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 21:16
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    @Appleguysnake Actually, you reveal your fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of this site when you say "you're asking for help". In fact, you are not. You're contributing a question to our knowledge base. The fact that the answer might help you is only a side benefit, from the perspective of the site's design and purpose. As it says in the tour: "With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed, high-quality answers to every question about programming." It doesn't say, "We offer a help desk resource." I agree, though, the rep notifications should be removed.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 5:03
  • @Clonkex It is not like that at all; your analogy doesn't hold. The better analogy is, you walk up to a museum curator and hand them a memento from your childhood. They frown and say, "That would not be a good addition to our collection here at this museum." Are you going to take that personally? I don't know; I guess you could, but honestly, I think it seems a bit silly to do so. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that taking that personally would be a sign of a dangerously inflated ego. Your childhood keepsake may be priceless to you, but that doesn't make it valuable to everyone.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 5:05
  • @Clonkex By feeling very attached to the content of your creation on this platform (or anywhere else), you may fall into the trap of being emotionally struck by the society's rejection of that content. One part of that reaction is inherent to our nature, but is one that we also learn to overcome in a modern society.
    – E_net4
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 9:32
  • @Clonkex " imagine the real-life equivalent:" No, it is more akin to failing a school examination, not getting a job offering, or having an academic paper rejected for publishing. And likewise, no one here calls your question "stupid" when downvoting. Moreover, that example, once again, translates the environment of Stack Overflow into a forum or discussion circle, which is a very bad analogy for what is done here.
    – E_net4
    Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 9:33
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    @CodyGray y'all can't even agree with yourselves on an analogy for how the site works, which is imo the best analogy for the problems with the site. That and pretending that anyone would ask a question if they weren't hopeful they could get an answer. The collection of questions come from humans, no matter how many times you link to an elevator pitch that isn't going to change how humans react to things. Commented Mar 18, 2022 at 12:50
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    @Appleguysnake Sorry, who is it that can't agree? Everyone I know is in agreement with the model stated in the tour, that we're building a library of high-quality answers to questions about programming. In that sense, the model is more like Wikipedia, except instead of long-form articles, the information is broken down into bite-sized chunks asked in the form of questions. Where, exactly, are you seeing the disagreement? This is not a help desk; no one ever said it was. We don't care about the motivations of the asker. We only care about building our knowledge base and making it the best.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 20, 2022 at 8:57
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I only ever asked one question about an edge case of a Python script's execution in different programming environments. I think it's a fairly advanced problem. One downvote made me reconsider the wording of the title so that the content of the question becomes clearer in the title. I got a lot of helpful comments, but never an answer or could verify the suggestions in the comments. Very nice reactions and help from the community, but 7 months later still no answer.

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When I asked my first question, I was already a veteran of message boards and a long time user of Stack Overflow as someone posting answers.

So my question was very prepared. It contained an MCVE and was very clear and focused. I would like to think that all my questions are. But they are not "easy". It takes time to read and understand them, even the boiled down minimum reproducible sandbox version that I ask here.

And my first question had the same problem that many of my questions here still have:

A random person downvoted them once with no comment and nothing for me to constructively do about it. And then it sat there, for days with no answer and no traffic.

Granted, after a few days someone knowledgeable would come around and invest the time to read and understand the question and answer it. Sometimes the answer takes time. Sometimes it's something stupid I did and neither my sandboxing nor my colleague checking it caught (like using the wrong variable) and the answer is simple. And after a few years of people seeing it, a few upvotes will trickle in and override the downvote.

But the initial impact is rather negative. A downvote with no good (or at least explainable) reason, sitting there with no traffic, because it fell of the front page.

The feeling I get from this is that we have all those guidelines for good questions and we all love them and love to tell people they should abide by them, but we as a community are more interested in snatching green Internet points by telling kids with homework for the billionth time how a loop works, than actually investing time into reading and understanding complex questions, no matter how well presented.

As a perfect example I would cite Custom GUID always return false on object.Equals. I think the question is okay, and it got a great answer, yet it has as many downvotes as upvotes without any obvious reason.

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    "investing time into reading and understanding complex questions" I would like to do that, yet increasingly feel like investing time to find such questions is getting ridiculous. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 10:31
  • I would think this happens very frequently for beginners, particularly when they haven't understood the significance of tags. A post that for example lacks a major programming language tag will simply get lost in cyberspace without anyone finding it.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 14, 2022 at 11:20
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My first question (2015) was motivated by several factors:

  • I was registered for two years and had already posted several answers long ago
  • kind of understood questions requirements: no duplicate, ask something specific, what you tried/already know, etc.
  • the perceived image of SO before you ask your first question is: SO is THE resource to learn. Most answers are already there, so if the question/answer is not yet there, you can ask that question (on topic: SO = writing code)

Like all first-time askers, I'm not perfect: I need to know what a concept does and how it works/how it fails to work (async/await) to understand it, yet, days if not weeks taking courses, reading books and blogs, watching videos (of experts) failed to explain those things to me (focussing on other matters like the result instead of the path and mechanism), I ended up with the wrong concept of the thing. I resolved myself to ask something specific on SO. Result: a question that has no meaning, failing to understand what the thing (async/await) is about in the first place.

The problem is not asking a bad question (it being a duplicate, a homework, etc.). It's the way you get harsh/lecturing comments, downvotes, flags in the first minutes, hours, or couple of days. Over the years, I've seen it so many times, especially around 2018-2020, first time question getting -10 and quite mean comments (not everyone is as strong as you, mentally).

I've recommended SO so many times, and got friends and colleagues yelling at me "SO is just a clan of people so full of themselves". I kind of understand what they meant. However, today, that is not really the case anymore.

What I believe are missing:

  • clearly warn SO is not your average forum where anyone ask whatever ASAP. No, if you don't understand something, go google outside SO. If you want opinions or "where to find this", the same. etc. (off-topic)
  • prepare to start with a bad reputation for some time. Nobody's perfect, everybody started there, and eventually, you'll get somewhere, so don't bother the (sometimes) cold welcome, just keep calm and get better little by little. I believe this is the best advice one can give.
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    I did mention that very issue during my interview with Juan Garza et Ben Popper, in Oct. 2021: downvotes and close vote are immediately applied. For a new user, this is not helpful.
    – VonC
    Commented Mar 9, 2022 at 21:21
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    @VonC is it better to have them falsely believe everything is fine while the votes keep coming in? Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 6:10
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    Re "...clearly warn SO is not your average forum": There is little hope when even the CEO thinks it is a forum (that was about 10 months in) Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 15:31
  • @PeterMortensen Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't knew that were that much video of the kind on YT. Not that I have that much time to have a look, but will surely care more from now on. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 22:20
  • @MisterMiyagi I understand the concern. I also don't want SO to have tons of garbage. However it's thanks to SO mainly I could contribute in my job, here and elsewhere : I was better prepared than others to pass the "first time question and the overall perception of that experience". "Rage-quit then wandering in the hell of smelly code" is a concern IMHO. Reviewing the DV system and disclaimer or not is up to who are in charge, we don't suggest here, it's okay. I'm not challenging your concern, just trying to poinpoint actual issues on the matter to ultimately help get the correct solution. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 22:41
  • ex : I've read a vague question. Poster quickly got DV-ed. I checked the other topics (duplicates ?), then answered based on what I assumed to be the issue. At the same time poster complained about DV reasons, you could tell he was pissed. Later on, poster answered with his own solution, not anywhere near the explained issue; but the good thing is, the question got upvoted aswell as my answer, meaning at least it helped a few people. What would have happenned if I DV-ed, not answered and not shared what I believed to be the reason of the DVs.. this is not a rare occurence. Commented Mar 10, 2022 at 22:57
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The Code Golf sandbox is a bad example

The Code Golf sandbox is a bit of a special case. It doesn't apply just for newbies, it's strongly recommended that all questions go through that process. It's really hard to write a good Code Golf challenge, one that doesn't have weird loopholes or undesirable characteristics, and that is actually interesting to people. Quite different to StackOverflow where it's not particularly difficult to grasp the mechanics of writing a decent question.

In response to your question

My first question was so long ago (12 years!), it doesn't seem relevant. I think it was fine? My first two questions (looking them up) both got useful answers, although the first one was closed a few years later for being off-topic (soliciting recommendations).

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    Also good Code Golf posts should be interesting to anyone regardless of programming language, whereas a good SO post should be narrowed-down as much as possible. So the Code Golf sandbox could serve as a place to get feedback from people who know various languages that you don't know yourself. On SO, the people who would be most suited to give feedback to a properly narrow and specific question are those with domain knowledge of that specific topic. And maybe those would rather just answer the technical question instead of helping out beginners with how to communicate with humans in text etc.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 14, 2022 at 11:24
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Improving the first-time asker experience - What was asking your first question like?

Relatively painless.

Why? Because I spent many months answering questions on Stack Overflow before I ever asked my first question. Whenever answering questions, I took note of the kinds of feedback different questions were getting.

I acknowledge this is a minority position but I still think this is right - that SO participants should, ideally, learn to give better and better answers before they ever ask a question themselves.

It's worth noting that I have voiced this position before and my articulation of this position was downvoted to oblivion. I am very much encouraged to see that there are other like-minded members here voicing the same position.

I observe that these days my question-to-answer ratio is far higher now even compared to when I'd been a member of SO for 2-3 years.

Before you ask others for help, start by helping others.

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    "Before you ask others for help, start by helping others." In principle I full agree but I think there is a problem here somewhere. Askers may not always be proficient enough to answer before and if everyone would do it like this, who would still ask something then? Maybe people can learn how to ask a good question even without needing to answer before. Or maybe most good questions have already been asked and new questions are likely not good. Commented Mar 15, 2022 at 12:59
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    I absolutely see what you're saying @Trilarion, but for me this is the line. If a new member of SO absolutely cannot help any other member with anything, then... maybe they should come back to SO when they are in a stronger position to do so. I recognise that not everyone will agree on this point but, for me, a criterion for joining SO is (or should be): "Can you help / guide / teach others?" And I don't think that's too stringent a criterion - I believe almost everyone can.
    – Rounin
    Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 14:33
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    "Can you help / guide / teach others?" Yes, I know what you want. Just wanted to say that the number of those "others" that needs teaching would then go down a lot if everyone already had those abilities. We would simply be kind of professionals helping each other out with much, much less redundancy in newly asked questions. Commented Mar 17, 2022 at 14:56
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My 1st question on SO was yesterday.

My previous experience in asking technical Qs was on the Google Docs forum, SO appears similar but the etiquette is much more detailed and enforced.

My question had a context, the goal, a link to a demo of the code/problem, a final specific question. It received a downvote and was closed for lack of debugging details.

I was a bit dismayed, but I read the message, and I did my best to satisfy the parameters, embedding code, highlighting sections...

While the question is still closed, somebody edited it and made it more legible, and I also received a comment (asking to use mock data which is more similar to actual data), so I improved the Q because of that comment.

Now I'm lost because I don't understand why the Q is still closed, who can see/ edit/comment/ answer it, if editing it will automatically bump it, how the community sees the practice of delete-&-repost... THIS IS FYI, because I think I'll find the anwers by digging in SO.
EDIT 1: I did found the Help section, and the answers I was looking for (and more). I wanted to post BEFORE doing some research to provide the thoughts of a newbie. Also, thanks to those who answered in the comments, it's encouraging!

EDIT 2: my question is now open, thanks at least in part to those who read this very post and voted the Q (thanks). Again, it's very encouraging :)

Another thing: I stumbled here before getting 5 rep, and when I've seen that some people had issues getting any upvote in the first Q it seemed to me that this Q has a great barrier. If you want to help new users and hear their opinion you may want to remove the 5 rep requirement. (I don't know who upvoted my Q, but I'm thankful)

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    "Now I'm lost" The help center covers one part of how reopening a question works, although it could also mention that an edit can put the question in a review queue, in which users with the necessary privileges can make their own assessment of whether the question is ready to be answered. In this case, it has now received enough votes to be reopened.
    – E_net4
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 13:03
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    A lot of the issues like delete & repost really isn't documented in a way that is easy to find. Some form of actual community editable wiki from the various meta posts could be really useful here as there are lots of good suggestions the community has made in the past about improving the help center that just never happened. (Prehaps this could be a use for the Articles feature). Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 13:21
  • Your first question is quite good. Congratulations. The sections headings do remind you to put sufficient information in the question and you did, but even more elegant is just using the suitable language elements instead. Use "I have ..., I want .... However, I get .... How can I ..." and everything will come almost naturally. Good luck in the future. Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 14:37
  • Thank you, both for the positive feedback and the guidance. I'll ask you: I like to start paragraphs with KEYWORDS which describes them, it's like tags for humans. I see you removed them from my Q, should I avoid them? (I've looked for info on this topic, but found none)
    – DavidBevi
    Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 14:57
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    @DavidBevi We are humans and probably like to read text just fine. I often use paragraphs and keep the length as short as possible, but using rather generic paragraph headings is often not needed. See my example above "I have ..." is context "I want" is requirements "I get" is problem and "How do I" is asking for a solution. No need for additional headers there. Commented Mar 11, 2022 at 15:53
  • Deleting and re-posting shouldn't be encouraged and closing a question isn't the end of the journey. The OP can always edit their question into shape and it also means that any clarity through comments is not lost or being re-hashed in the re-posted question.
    – user692942
    Commented Mar 12, 2022 at 16:52
4

My first question (and my only net downvoted question) was an issue I was having with a school assignment. The question can be found here, and the issue, as you can see, turned out to be '1' and 'l' look really similar in the font I was using (Visual Studio's default at the time). It was obvious to see once pointed out, but an easy-to-miss mistake in that font. Obviously I missed it, but also both friends I asked to help me missed it. To this day it's also my second most viewed question (4k at time of writing this), so I'm guessing that other student's have been helped by it (can't see the views over time obviously)?

I really didn't want to ask at the time, because I'd seen a lot of questions that had a lot of downvotes and/or had been closed as duplicates, with comments along the lines of "this should be obvious." This was somewhat confirmed when the question almost immediately went to -3 with no answers or comments. Then went up to -2 and had 2 answers and several comments when I next looked. The answers were exactly the problem, and it was embarrassing to not notice that, but I was (and am) happy that they were all polite/business like instead of what I'd seen on some other questions. Overall I'd say it ended up being a neutral experience.

The question is now at a -1 and has been for years, so I feel like I probably managed to help out at least one other person with the same error. If you ignore the color, I still have a hard time seeing the diff between 11 and ll when I look at that code in SE's code view.

2
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    Other ones, including invisible ones, like NO-BREAK SPACE, ZERO WIDTH SPACE, ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER, EN DASH, EM DASH, LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK, RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK, MINUS SIGN, LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS, REPLACEMENT CHARACTER, and ASTERISK OPERATOR, respectively can also be puzzling. They can arise from copying from other media, like web pages, Skype chat, and PDF documents. Commented Mar 7, 2022 at 23:26
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    For a more complete list, see github.com/reinderien/mimic Commented Mar 8, 2022 at 3:41

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