Timeline for Introducing the Staging Ground, an attempt at improving the first-time asker experience - What was asking your first question like?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
21 events
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Mar 16, 2022 at 16:05 | comment | added | computercarguy | @l4mpi, here's an example of what I'm talking about: robotics.stackexchange.com/questions/23323/…. The comment makes a judgmental comment about my question when they could have just asked for more clarification. This is very mild compared to some of the comments I've seen around, and not just pointed at me. And your comment about it being with the way I use the site, instead of the site in general is also judgmental. If this is supposed to be a professional Q&A site, we should leave off those judgmental comments. | |
Mar 16, 2022 at 9:51 | comment | added | l4mpi | @computercarguy no offense, but that's your experience. As described in my and other answers, other people have had significantly different experiences. Have you considered it might be a problem with you instead of the site? But anyways, I don't think it's fruitful to continue this conversation, as our viewpoints on the purpose of the site don't seem to be compatible. | |
Mar 15, 2022 at 16:23 | comment | added | computercarguy | Throwing info in people faces is exactly what we do in comments, and what we shouldn't do in trying to train people to use the site. | |
Mar 15, 2022 at 16:23 | comment | added | computercarguy | @l4mpi, really? Is that why every question that I've asked (other than on Meta) has gotten massive pushback about dozens of different rules and regs, even though I've been "lurking" on and reading about rules on this site for nearly a decade? I've answered over 100 questions, so you'd think that I'd have learned all the rules there are, yet I have DVs on 2 out of the 3 questions I've asked. And I'm pretty sure I've had at least 2 questions deleted in the past 2 years, so your assumptions are incorrect. | |
Mar 15, 2022 at 9:56 | comment | added | l4mpi | @computercarguy people who "earnestly" want to use SO already have a ton of resources and ways to wrap their head around this site (the help center, the sidebar on the "ask" page, meta, lurking on main, etc), so "not having even 25% of the necessary information available to them" is IMO simply incorrect. And again, the main issue is not askers who don't understand all of SO's rules, it's askers who don't know programming basics and fail to do their own research and experimentation, leading to useless localized questions. You can't fix that by throwing more info about SO in their faces. | |
Mar 14, 2022 at 17:13 | comment | added | computercarguy | The rules around here are extremely subjective and therefore not very friendly to newcomers. | |
Mar 14, 2022 at 17:13 | comment | added | computercarguy | @l4mpi, I'm not saying it'll fix 100% of problems, but it will fix the problem of people earnestly wanting to use this network, yet not having even 25% of the necessary information available to them to ask an appropriate question. As I just mentioned to PasserBy, I've had rules commented to me about my own questions that I've never seen, even as long as I've been a member. And many high rep members seem to pick and choose which rules to enforce and when to enforce them either randomly or on because they don't know them all, either. (cont) | |
Mar 14, 2022 at 17:08 | comment | added | computercarguy | @PasserBy, I've seen plenty of questions that were closed by people who could use those same "be nice humans" and "read the rules" skills. Of the few questions I've asked, I've had plenty of "feedback" by those types who have far more rep than me. Also, many of the rules aren't in a easily accessible centralized area. They may "all" be on Meta, but even as long as I've been on this network, I'd never seen many of the rules posted that got my questions closed or at least CVed. We need to do better than that as a community. | |
Mar 11, 2022 at 13:30 | comment | added | l4mpi | @computercarguy Good luck creating a meaningful "formal intro" that reaches people who fail to search for their problems, fail to read the docs or a tutorial, fail to read SO guidelines, and even fail to ckeck the question preview before asking trivial stuff with broken formatting and missing content. You would probably have to strap them to a chair and force them to watch a video, clockwork orange style. And I don't see a problem with there being more friction for reopening initially-bad questions than to get them closed (although IME garbage is often answered badly before it can be closed). | |
Mar 11, 2022 at 5:11 | comment | added | Passer By | @computercarguy You won't get the exact same thing. But you don't need to. The huge majority of closed questions are due to missing skills that aren't exclusive to SO, such as how to read the rules and how to be nice humans. | |
Mar 10, 2022 at 17:40 | comment | added | computercarguy | @l4mpi, this is why having a more formal intro to SO/SE is so important, so we can tell beginners to get more help offsite before they ask super basic questions. Right now, we basically yell at them to RTFM and close or delete the question before they have a chance to see any kind of response. And yes, I've seen questions closed in under 6 minutes and taking +3 days to get reopened after it was edited, as well as comments that specifically said "RTFM" and nothing else, not even a suggestion as to what manual they should be reading instead of the one they likely are reading. | |
Mar 10, 2022 at 17:36 | comment | added | computercarguy | @PasserBy, so where do you suggest people practice asking questions that are as tightly restricted as SO/SE and follow the exact same rules? You won't get that at Reddit, which many people get pushed to when they don't immediately know 100% of the rules on the first try. | |
Mar 10, 2022 at 17:35 | comment | added | computercarguy | @user692942, I'm of the camp that thinks SO/SE should be curating their own content, not require the free work of volunteers to keep the business running. If you have a problem with there already being too much work to curate as a volunteer, you should take that up with the website owners, not the people using the website. | |
Mar 10, 2022 at 10:49 | comment | added | l4mpi | @computercarguy "we need people to stop asking questions that have been asked to death" - from my perspective that includes the endless questions from users who don't even know the basics of programming (basic syntax, concepts like variables/methods). The overwhelming majority of those Qs are very localized and thus not useful to anyone else, and would also require the answerers to teach a lot of simple concepts to the OPs. When I signed up SO was about building a high quality content repo for professionals in Q/A format, not about mentoring people who fail at coding hello world in python. | |
Mar 10, 2022 at 5:31 | comment | added | Passer By | @computercarguy Practice, yes. Practice anywhere at anyone's expense, no. | |
Mar 10, 2022 at 5:23 | comment | added | Passer By | @Lundin I almost never believe generational temperament differences unless proven without reasonable doubt. Another hypothesis might be that there was a strong selection bias towards people who will learn by themselves back in the day because programming was, comparably, quite inaccessible. | |
Mar 9, 2022 at 21:14 | comment | added | user692942 | @computercarguy are you going curate all that? Oh, no your not…didn’t think so. | |
Mar 9, 2022 at 19:45 | comment | added | computercarguy | It completely blows my mind that people on a Q&A site believe that the best way to fix the problem of "bad questions" is to keep telling people to stop asking questions. Sure, we need people to stop asking questions that have been repeatedly asked to death, but even duplicate questions have value when they point to related questions with good answers. And really, the only way people get better at things, like asking questions, is to do more of it, not less. "Practice makes perfect" not "shut up and do it perfectly correct the first time". | |
Mar 9, 2022 at 13:53 | comment | added | l4mpi | @Lundin not sure if it's a generational thing. IMO it's not so much books/classes vs the internet, but the willingness to experiment and learn by yourself. I learned Delphi in highschool in 2003-5 (at a very basic level), and while I already spent a lot of time online I didn't use it much for coding related things. I wrote bad breakout clones and other small games for fun but didn't learn much. Only got serious about programming a few years later when changing masters to CS, and picked up most of my CS knowledge from the net, not books/courses (only coding book I read was SICP for the memes). | |
Mar 9, 2022 at 13:05 | comment | added | Lundin | I agree, and I suspect there might be some generation clash here. I started learning programming in the 1990s and the Internet barely existed. You had to use conventional methods of learning: reading books and taking classes, a very well-tried and refined method of learning that existed for several thousand years before the Internet. Now there's the Youtube generation who somehow think that they are the chosen ones, who suddenly don't need to use these conventional means of study unlike some hundreds of generations before them. | |
Mar 8, 2022 at 14:57 | history | answered | l4mpi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |