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Note: This question is about whether to report incidents of excessive complaints about downvotes. Any other subject related to downvotes is tangential and should not be discussed here. Downvotes have a purpose, and downvoters are not required to provide feedback for well established reasons. Please refrain from using comments to discuss about those matters in this Meta question.

In my recent curation efforts, I noticed a pattern of several more complaints about downvotes than usual around a specific tag. The kind of comments shown across multiple questions were of the forms:

  • Plain "why the downvote" and "downvoter care to explain";
  • Speculative discussion assuming the presence of a serial downvoter of some sort in that tag;
  • Users suggesting to upvote the posts to counter this speculated serial downvoter and users claiming to have done so, sometimes even through following a link to the list of questions asked by a user.

All of these comments were already flagged for removal, and the mere act of flagging them might raise some awareness on the matter, but what if there is something here worth being looked further into by moderators?

For what it's worth, none of this is evidence of misguided voting purely based on the tag rather than the actual merits of the posts, and it is highly probable that this is just caused by one or more users becoming more heavily involved in curation. This Meta question also seems to suggest that flagging a case of massive downvoting on a tag is not particularly helpful, especially if there isn't a clear pattern of indiscriminate voting.

On the other hand, the common user does not have the means to understand whether there really is an issue. Moreover, the folks involved in that meta-discussion should at least be advised to refrain from throwing speculations and bad advice. The act of upvoting for the sake of countering another person's downvote is also something not recommended by some.

Would such a situation of exaggerated commentary around a possible surge of downvotes call for a mod flag?

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    What would you want/expect the mod to do in response to the flag? Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 12:55
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    @JeanneDark If there is fraudulent voting, to handle that situation. Otherwise, "the folks involved in that meta-discussion should at least be advised to refrain from throwing speculations and bad advice".
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 12:57
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    How could voting around a tag be fraudulent? The only criteria for fraudulent voting is if it targets an individual and a tag is not an individual. Serial voting on a tag is not a problem. Many people are SMEs on a very few or even only one tag and most of their votes go to that tag. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 12:59
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    Eg. Is it against the rules to vote by tag? Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 13:02
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    "Users suggesting to upvote […] sometimes even through following a link to the list of questions asked by a user." That's not okay. Mildly put. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 13:20
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    @RobertLongson I mostly believe that the downvotes are not the problem here, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt because I have a partial picture of the matter. Nevertheless, you are correct that I should rather not talk about "voting fraud" in this case, so I edited the question accordingly.
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 13:22
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    Aren't the votes-tag relation stored in SEDE? The hypothesis of an unusual high amount of downvotes in a tag could actually be tested. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:43
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    have you considered that most of the questions a literary crap, with an urgent need to downvote them. The main tag get everys day bad questions on mass, and there is niothing to do other to downvote and close them, also there is only a limited number of votes you can cast
    – nbk
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 15:44
  • @nbk Have I considered? Sure. :)
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 15:53
  • @E_net4 ah i see so why do you want to to anything, prople who like to downvote like me, do that all the time and usually with very good cause, the queality of the questions are bad and there is nothing to do tahn close and downvote and hpefuly the question makers learn there lesson and complaints are there all the time, and i recommend to sift through the pit that is called reviews
    – nbk
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 16:05
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    @nbk I'm not sure I follow, but I would imagine that, at the very least, you find it problematic that some people are out there upvoting posts to counter the downvotes from an alleged serial downvoter.
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 16:08
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    I thought about it for a day and finally came to the conclusion that if we always say that people are free to vote as they please, then we hardly can do anything about it. If people are really free to vote as they please, then they can also upvote themselves even if the content isn't that great as well as downvote content that isn't that bad. We can try to delete communication about it as quickly as possible or be vigilant of patterns but that's it, I guess. Commented Aug 31, 2021 at 6:18
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    I have to ask, was this on the pandas tag?
    – ALollz
    Commented Aug 31, 2021 at 16:43
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    @E_net4. I was just more curious. But building a case is futile because in the end anyone can vote however they want, so there's no case to be made. The voting system on this site is based on a set of accepted norms, and a sliver of strict rules surrounding targeting specific users, but otherwise it's anything goes. This has and does generally work, but I think it's exactly why "undeserving" downvotes, specifically on logically correct answers, seem to sting that much more.
    – ALollz
    Commented Aug 31, 2021 at 19:31
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    "Undeserving" is too loaded an adjective to employ in these circumstances, @ALollz. That is only your personal judgement of value, but votes are a personal assessment of value themselves, and they are not to be argued about whether they are warranted or not. Logically correct answers are not immune to one's personal assessment of usefulness.
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 31, 2021 at 20:56

4 Answers 4

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The mod tools are built to look for voting fraud (or targeting), but without showing us actual votes. So a user casting votes inside a tag would not necessarily show up because that doesn't constitute fraud/targeting. Just today I had a CM escalation come back as not being targeting against a user (their tools are better than ours, and only a CM can remove votes).

Could CMs see if tag targeting is happening? Possibly (I don't know how their tools work). The real questions are

  1. If a user wants to downvote every question and answer in a tag, is that a serious problem? It's not ideal, and we certainly wouldn't want anyone to think it was OK. But anonymous voting is one of the cornerstones of SO voting and this seems like part of that price. Plus you're spending rep on every answer downvote, and you can only downvote 40 times per day.
  2. Do we want to use the limited time CMs have with tag targeting? That's less time to deal with more serious voting issues we already deal with (along with everything else they do).

If you have serious reason to think there is some user actually doing this, you'll need to build a case first. It needs to be more than just "I think there's something happening in this tag", because we can't validate that (and I'd say maybe 90% of flags like that are closed without further action for that reason). People commenting about downvotes happens all the time. That, in and of itself, is not indicative of a problem. Note who was commenting at the time, or who posted an answer. If we have something more substantial suggesting a pattern, it should be worth getting a CM involved.

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    "...you'll need to build a case first." Given that a regular user has even less tools available than a moderator, I wonder how to do that. It seems next to impossible. Commented Sep 1, 2021 at 18:00
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    @Trilarion It's not as hard as you think. If you notice that a user is commenting/answering around the time of mass downvotes, and there's a pattern of that happening, mod flag that. You're right that a lot of the time you won't be able to build a case like that, but it's the best we can do.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Sep 1, 2021 at 18:19
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    So not "build an air-tight case", more like "find some suspicious circumstantial evidence for people with the tools to investigate a specific user's activity". Commented Sep 2, 2021 at 9:15
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    @PeterCordes That's a good way of putting it. Having a specific user to investigate via circumstantial evidence is the bare minimum we would need. I'm not inclined (and I doubt any other mods would be) to just send CMs into a tag without at least a starting point, and we do act on circumstantial mod flags elsewhere.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Sep 2, 2021 at 12:11
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The first thing you must remember is that moderators do not see who voted. The second thing is that illegal voting happens when someone targets a user with their votes (either up or down) or abuses the voting system to vote on their own posts. For this, there has to be clear evidence that would convict someone. As for all other voting, we are free to decide whatever our criteria are. For example, if the post is too long, you might downvote. If you think the question is well asked despite being the 1000th duplicate, you can upvote. I am not saying these are good reasons to cast a vote, but we are free to do so.

I am an avid follower of one tag. I watch every new question posted there. Most new questions are useless and I downvote them. Is this abuse? No! I don't feel like explaining my votes on every post. I often leave a comment that helps the author in one way or another, but sometimes I just vote and move on.

A single user can cast virtually an unlimited number of votes per day, but there is a limit of 40 votes on non-deleted posts. This is not a lot, but if there are only 40 new questions per day in the tag, then it means that a very active user can downvote every single new question in that tag every day if they don't find any of them useful.

So, in summary, voting on posts in a single tag is normal. It is not forbidden and with very active users it might result in a lot of votes cast in that tag.

What to do about comments?

All comments need to be deleted. The sooner the better. If a comment is attacking someone or is generally rude then it should be flagged accordingly. Comments demanding an explanation or upvotes are not appreciated here. At best, they are just noise, at worst they are detrimental to the site's atmosphere and perception.

If you find that it's always the same user, you should ask moderators to speak to that user. They can talk to them privately or if needed issue a warning.

Is it only in tag ABC?

No, the objections to votes happen all across the site. I have just reviewed comments and posts (including the deleted ones) and I have found no correlation to any specific tag. People complain as they have wrong expectations about the site. They come here looking for personal guidance and all they see is some number going negative beside their question. It's worth pointing out that the same happens on answers when people want to help such users only to be met with a similar fate. We can't know the exact reasons someone downvoted, but by looking at the posts where people complained about the votes, I am not surprised someone decided to downvote it. Some of the questions were deleted by moderators and some were deleted by 3 users. Other questions are still closed.

As explained at the start, if there are active users in a tag, there will be more votes cast in that tag. This will inevitably lead to more complaints.

Is it ok to upvote all posts to counter these down votes?

No! This is stupid. Why would anyone do such a thing? If you think the post is good then you are free to upvote, but don't vote blindly. Find a reason to downvote/upvote a post and then use your privilege. Don't do it just to counter someone else's vote.

"... but I asked a good question and it still got downvoted"

Well, did it receive any up votes? If not, then chances are the question isn't as useful as you might think. If it did get up votes, then what's the issue?

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See also: Why isn't providing feedback mandatory on downvotes, and why are ideas suggesting such negatively received?

These comments are, at a minimum, No Longer Needed (or, if they're overtly hostile or sarcastic, Unfriendly or Unkind) because users aren't obligated to explain their downvotes. If someone wants to explain their downvote, they will; if not, not. So, flag the comments appropriately and move on.

If a specific user is a repeat offender, you may want to mod-flag one of their posts explaining their situation and asking the moderators to warn them to stop. You could also point them to the linked FAQ, but there's a risk of getting revenge downvotes as a result.

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Would such a situation of exaggerated commentary around a possible surge of downvotes call for a mod flag?

There is nothing wrong about asking for feedback after unexpected votes. After all, someone asking for feedback might show that they are actually interested in brushing up their content. Explicitly addressing downvoters instead of generally asking for improvement is less than ideal, but not bad per se.

If you feel that some "speculative discussion" is close to boiling over, consider to direct the people towards Meta. Perhaps they are right, perhaps they are wrong, they will not find out on their own. Comment threads make it easy to stew in one's juices, and getting a different perspective can help immensely.

That said, this

Users suggesting to upvote […] sometimes even through following a link to the list of questions asked by a user.

is not okay. People should vote on content, not users – assuming that someone else did wrong is no excuse to do wrong oneself. Consider to raise a custom mod flag if you see such cases.

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    It's ok if someone is genuinely asking for feedback on how to improve their post. However, if they're just complaining about downvotes, these comments are not needed (or even outright unfriendly) because users are not required to explain their downvotes. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:07
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    The first line of the question seems to imply that it's ok for users to ask about downvotes; I don't agree - if they want feedback on the posts, that's ok, but if all they're asking about is the downvotes it's little more than complaining. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:12
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    Ok, sharing my thoughts on this answer: (1) "There is nothing wrong about asking for feedback after unexpected votes" is one thing I pretty much disagree. I flag such comments in the blink of an eye. Based on the experience and events I observed over time, they still invite unnecessary bickering and verbal violence over the one thing they should not be focused on. (2) They may well come to Meta, but the latest few cases regarding other tags were not that well received here, and I can picture something similar happening again. (3) That would be fair.
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:23
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    @E_net4 (1) I've made pretty good experience with taking such comments as an indication that people are interested in feedback, within reason of course. One should not repeat the mistake to focus on the downvote but discuss the content instead, yet it seems natural that people react to the downvote – requiring them to sugarcoat that seems insincere to me. As said, it's not ideal – and a no longer needed flag is appropriate – but it's not bad in that one would have to take further actions. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:30
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    @E_net4 (2) If they present their case badly, that's quite frankly their problem. The point is that no one is helped if things stew in comments. Meta is the place to discuss such things, comments are not. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:32
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    "Explicitly addressing downvoters instead of generally asking for improvement is less than ideal, but not bad per se." Not sure I agree. And you can't ping downvoters anyway. Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:38
  • (1) Good experiences may happen more often than bad ones, sure, but the slightest chance of abuse is enough for most people to be reluctant from intervening, lest they become some unreasonable person's punching bag again. "requiring them to sugarcoat that seems insincere to me" I do expect people not to interpret downvotes like they're "you are a bad person and you should feel bad, go die in a corner". Am I asking too much? :[
    – E_net4
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:40
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    @EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica "..but if all they're asking about is the downvotes it's little more than complaining..." To me it feels like there is an important difference between the two. Complaining actually includes a judgment, asking can also just be curiosity and the desire to learn. Asking for feedback in comments is okay. Doesn't mean you'll get it, but why should I be disturbed by it? Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:47
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    Almost always I see a comment directly addressing “the downvoters”, I’ll flag to get the comment deleted.
    – yivi
    Commented Aug 30, 2021 at 14:49

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