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This has been an issue for about 9 years (earliest post I could found was from June 2011, see below) now and I personally feel very uncomfortable with that it isn't fixed already. I clearly say "fixed" because I personally consider it as bug.

When we close question for the reason that it belongs to another site we have by far too less options.

Let's take have a look at it:

enter image description here

We only got 5 options here. To vote to a migrate a question to Meta, Superuser, Tex/Latex, DBA and statistics site.

Why?

We urgently need more options here.

The ones I personally really need to be in here are:

And the directly related ones:

Related:


I'm aware of that this has been asked before and that there are several posts already on SO Meta regarding the same concern,

but anyhow it seems that nothing get changed nor that Stack Overflow states anything about why not doing it from their side although it is so much needed and just declined some of these feature-requests without statements again.

In opposite, it seems that SO even made things more complicated as it removed the ability to suggest migrations - the "should be migrated to ... by a moderator" feature:

enter image description here

I could found no official statement for the reasons of the removal of this feature with or without asking the community whether this is a good decision or not.


I feel it very, very, very very annoying to me as user to go and find the a link to the respective site and post it into the comments of such questions to suggest OP or mods the migration to other sites.

  • Why can't we just flag a post to be migrated to another side when the case is appropriate? Why do you bothering us to flag the post for a mod and explain why it fits better there?

Argumentations against:

  1. I've found some argumentation that such questions should be flagged for a moderator instead with a comment added to inform the mod to which site the post should be migrated to.

    But what is this for an unbelievable detour?

    This also requires again research from the user to which site to migrate to. I need to find the links to the other sites and look if it is appropriate.

    For the most users, they won't take this obstacle and just leave the post as it is and continue to the next one.

  2. Another argumentation is that migrations would not be used frequently or would not be used if they were there.

  • But How can you measure a traffic for something what isn't even there?

    One cannot say that the features wouldn't be used before at least making a test.


Wouldn't it be much easier to just provide the sites in the list for everyone? I don't see where the problem is.

Why SO, Why do you give us such hurdles to actually keep the network a clean place and separate non-low quality posts where they belong to?

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  • 13
    Code review don't want to be a migration target, seems rather rude to ignore their wishes. Do you know the other migration targets you're proposing are in favour of this? If not, surely that's the first step here before even asking this question. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:20
  • 18
    Let's get rid of it entirely. The vast majority of custom moderator flags that I see suggesting migrating are horribly misguided, and these are people who took extra time to type in a message. People suggest migrating questions that are (a) perfectly on-topic for the site where they're asked, (b) not even close to on-topic for another site, and/or (c) so terribly low quality that nobody wants that garbage. I'm not sure users should be trusted to vote to migrate anything, unless they also have close-vote powers on the other site. They certainly don't need more choices. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:24
  • 6
    @RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio I'm coming to a party at your house. What time should I turn up? I've invited all my friends too. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:24
  • 1
    @RobertLongson My house isn't a disco. So go with your friends to make a party where it belongs to. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:30
  • 4
    If the question is off-topic here, vote to close it. If it's on-topic somewhere else you can add a comment with your opinion and the poster can repost it if they wish. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:31
  • 1
    The point is if code review is a migration target the people that are actually active on code review are afraid that we'll swamp it with bad content. I'm afraid as a community we've shown we can't be trusted not to do that. We're the 600lb gorilla here. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:33
  • 5
    Only tbe OP should migrate questions by copying to the target AND deleting from the source. The OP is the user who has the best chance of accurately targeting or retargeting, their question. The grunt work of identifying a better-match site, where the question is on-topic and will not fall foul siite policy/rules should be done by the OP - the only user who has the full context of the question. If the OP mis-targeted their question in the first place, the OP should fix it. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:39
  • 9
    It's also the OP that will receive a potential barrage of downvotes and complaints if a question is wrongly migrated.
    – ivarni
    Jul 24, 2020 at 9:41
  • 2
    @RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio 'layer of "approval" then by mods or even community members to decide whether a question should be migrated or not', OK, fine, please publish your email address where you wish to receive links to migration requests. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:43
  • 2
    @DragandDrop. 'Eh... another nag rule..click'. Many users ignore anything that might interfere with their primary goal of getting an answer. Nothing else matters:( Jul 24, 2020 at 9:55
  • 5
    We're 10 million visits a day with 13 million users, Code review has fewer than 2000 people with review capability. They would spend all their time clicking on "no" on the migration destination queue, or more likely ignore it altogether so all the migrations fail. Going to a queue and seeing a torrent of off-topic questions is going to be dispiriting. Spend a few days doing Help and Improvement reviews here and see if you don't agree. Jul 24, 2020 at 9:56
  • 3
    That's the cross we all have to hold when it comes to asking questions on the wrong site. Closing the question should be enough to clue the OP in on the fact that they're in the wrong place.
    – ivarni
    Jul 24, 2020 at 10:08
  • 4
    Migration suggestions require the suggester to be familiar with the target site rules/policy and to be sure that the question does not violate them. That is ditch-digging work that the OP should do. If the migration backfires, the OP should be the one with a face full of buckshot. Jul 24, 2020 at 10:18
  • 2
    There are not enough mods to do the work that already exists, never mind adding migration hassle. We need more effective mods. The 'regular' SO curators are also overloaded. We need more effective curators. We don't need more ditch-digging. Jul 24, 2020 at 10:30
  • 8
    So basically your point is 'I do too much work to do this. SE should have more ppl do that work for me'. Stack doesn't have enough ppl moderating the queues HERE. So ... That can't work. And the size difference makes the migration targets you talk of unsuitable... While I get the intent..... I don't think it's practical
    – Patrice
    Jul 24, 2020 at 10:57

1 Answer 1

19

One of the sites in your list already has been a migration target. This has proven to work poorly (softly speaking) and after much trouble they had to escalate to the company to get removed from that list, see Update Migration Path List for Non-Moderators

To prevent impression that this is some exceptional case, other migration target sites in the past had similar difficulties followed with escalation requesting their removal from the list, for example see here: Regarding the high number of rejected migrations from Stack Overflow to Server Fault

You see, changes like you propose carry some risk of causing frustration and much moderation load at target sites, along with waste of company development effort on adding then deleting target sites in migration list.

Because of above, I think it would be unwise to fulfill your request (and all similar requests for that matter) without some preliminary safety check to ensure that mentioned risk is not too high.


Natural and possibly simplest way to perform such preliminary check would be asking at target site meta how do they feel about getting added to migration targets. Their 10K users can also check and evaluate mod migration stats (which is sort of "optimistic estimate" for migration) to tell how risky / safe it would be to try opening it for regular SO users.

Besides, as was pointed in comments, this would be a matter of courtesy:

I'm coming to a party at your house. What time should I turn up? I've invited all my friends too.

18
  • we could increase the numver of votes instead of three 5 for that purpose. i also wished rarely that i could send questions to serverfault or linux, because is usually don't get answers
    – nbk
    Jul 24, 2020 at 10:58
  • @Amessihel comments like you suggest have proven to do more harm than good and some of the sites targeted in comments even had to establish special bots to track and report such comments to minimize harm done by misleading askers to inappropriate sites (I know that Software Engineering and Code Review do this, and maybe there are other sites)
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:11
  • 1
    @gnat, If true, only "closed as off-topic" should remain them.
    – Amessihel
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:12
  • @nbk votes for migrate at SO are already changed to 4 in July 2011. Given that both escalations referred in my answer were much later it didn't help. And I see no reason to believe that increase from 4 to 5 would help either. As I wrote the most reliable way seems to be simply ask at target site meta
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:17
  • the 3 votes rule works just fine, and i can only say this for SO mysql --> dba and seeing there this works just fine, bronze and up badge helps also to eliminate rifraf. everything can be misused with that many members,
    – nbk
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:27
  • 1
    @nbk Just because it works for migrations between two small sites does not mean it will work for migrations between one gigantly yuge site and a small site. Those situations are not comparable.
    – ivarni
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:32
  • @nbk yes, DBA seems to be one of the sites where migration works good enough. Unfortunately this doesn't guarantee that other will be lucky too. As I wrote, target site meta is the simplest way to evaluate chances. In particular, their 10K users can check and evaluate mod migration stats (which is sort of "optimistic estimate" for migration) to tell how risky / safe would be to try opening migration for regular users
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:33
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    IMO, migration feature should be completely removed (at least from SO) The only migration path that makes sense is migration to meta. Usually any question that spectacularly misses the site is also very poor question. I would add generic off topic close reason about question belonging to some other site with link to all SE sites and instruction to read help center before asking on any particular site.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:41
  • 1
    Removing migration feature would hopefully remove the increasing number of users that request better sites in the question itself or in comments. Like it is our job to do point them in right direction.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:44
  • 2
    @DalijaPrasnikar I think I saw at MSE stories about how migration works well between some smaller sites. Possible reason to keep migration is company may simply consider it cheaper to have occasional misguided meta requests like this one than deal with possible complaints from sites that had it worked well in case of removal
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:54
  • @gnat i looked at the statistics for migration and they seem, completely normal to me, there is a small flow between sites and almost none are rejected.
    – nbk
    Jul 24, 2020 at 11:58
  • @nbk digits alone don't make it, sorry - note my answer says "evaluate". How much increase to expect after opening regular migration path? What changes to expect in success rate after that? Would possible increase in rejections be acceptable for target site? Etc. I would prefer that target site regulars answer these questions and not some random 10K user at source site who may have no slightest idea about topics and norms of target site
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 12:19
  • 1
    @nbk past experience with comments suggesting migration to various sites speaks rather against your assumption, I already mentioned this in one of my previous comments here. I can believe that your comments are typically correct but unfortunately this seems to be exception rather than a rule
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 13:42
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    @RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio do I understand it correctly that you are now looking for advice about mod migration (as opposed to adding a target site to close dialog)? If yes, then most smooth examples I've seen were like this 1) wait until it's closed at source site (as a proof that they don't want it) 2) drop to target site chat asking if they want it migrated 3) if they say yes, flag for moderator with the reference to chat discussion. Step #3 is sometimes "hijacked" by target site regulars when they choose to just flag it themselves instead of waiting for you to do that
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 14:39
  • 1
    ...if you have enough reputation at the target site, you can also try a bit riskier way, ie skip step #2 and flag immediately pointing to your experience at target site in flag message. I think I even did this myself once or twice, although I generally prefer chat, to make sure that other site regulars would agree with me
    – gnat
    Jul 24, 2020 at 14:45

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