103

Excuse the ternary operator in the title. The flag needs to go or be named better, much like many actual variables in code.

The flag is an endless source of confusion.

There is also a disconnect for what moderators should do when they often prefer the VLQ flags to fall through to community review. Moderator Brad Larson's answer on the topic here. The issue is that perfectly reasonable flags are declined because the moderators do not want to act with urgency, which sends confusing signal to new users trying to do the right thing -- who often see the answer removed (via community review) later.

And it is for the simple reason that it never covers something that another flag does not.

In particular the 2017 question above flags this answer:

i think u better to use float:left it will take care about resiz

Which is "very low quality" in any English sense of the phrase "very low quality" (i.e., it has a quality level, that quality level is low, and it is low to a high degree). The barely discernible suggestion in the answer happens to be incorrect. Nonetheless the flag was declined, and accurately so with respect to the description of the VLQ flag:

This answer has severe formatting or content problems. This answer is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed.

I cannot think of any way the VLQ flag could simultaneously 1) apply to an answer, 2) not apply to the answer quoted above, and 3) not be replaced by the "Not an answer" flag. This subsumption problem means it needs to go.

If it needs to stay for some technical reason, I would strongly suggest renaming it to "No Relevant Content." Based on the above flag and interpretation in Servy's answer, that would be a more accurate name than the current situation of misleading users into thinking if a question has quality that is exceptionally low the VLQ flag applies.

  • "Not Salvageable" is too weaseled: "salvageable by whom?" is the first question the user may ask, and it's easy to argue a flat wrong answer can only be replaced, not salvaged.
  • If there is relevant content, the answer is salvageable or possibly technically wrong but not one we would like to delete under the letter of the current flag.
  • If the user cannot discern relevant content, then the formatting or content problems are sufficiently severe so the answer is "not salvageable" per current definition (more pedantically: no evidence of its salvageability is present).

Lastly if we really intend to cover posts that are extremely vague, technically wrong, etc., the description needs to be updated. But it sounds more productive to just create a "VLQ" queue driven by answers with a heavy number of downvotes, for instance.

26
  • 14
    I voted up because I do think this flag and the "not an answer" flag need to be reworded to "unintelligible gibberish" and "should be a comment or question", respectively. I'm not sure we need another queue though. Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:01
  • 44
    The real feature request is, can we man up and start throwing out things that are obviously "low quality", even if they don't meet the arbitrary (and undocumented) guidelines behind VLQ? "No relevant content" won't work either; I can think of a bunch of things I would flag as containing no relevant content that moderators would decline. The issue is not that the name is poorly chosen. The issue is too much reluctance to delete garbage.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:01
  • 5
    @MikeMcCaughan not an extra queue, it's more that having a VLQ queue really doesn't need to be driven off of a flag. # of downvotes seems like perfectly fine signal for how LQ a post is. one DV, LQ. Many DV, VLQ. Simple.
    – djechlin
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:05
  • 7
    Actually, the queue can be driven this way. If something is flagged as VLQ, ends up in the queue, and receives a sufficient number of "Recommend Deletion" votes, then it is deleted and the flag is validated. The problem is solved. The only scenario where a problem is created is if the community doesn't get to the flagged post quickly enough and a moderator steps in to review the flags. Then, a moderator, acting on their understanding of the official guidance, declines the flag because it doesn't meet the arbitrary definition of VLQ.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:05
  • 3
    @CodyGray so you're saying the problem is that the moderators are more lawyer-like and do what the flag says instead of what people tend to like to use it for?
    – djechlin
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:07
  • 21
    That is my understanding. There are lots of description problems when it comes to flags. One of the primary ones is that a load of mythology gets created above and beyond what the text actually says in English. "Very low quality" is not ambiguous. Sure, there is some natural subjectivity, and people could misinterpret it, but I've yet to see an example brought to Meta where someone is questioning the processing of a VLQ flag where I legitimately disagreed that the post they flagged was "very low quality". It just didn't meet the mythological definition that everyone articulates differently.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:10
  • 21
    Beyond that, the definition that I see moderators citing is whether the post requires immediate moderator action, or whether the community is able to handle the problems themselves. This makes negative sense to me, considering that I didn't flag it as "requires moderator attention". I flagged it as being "very low quality", and I know that we have a queue where all of this garbage gets collected and reviewed/handled by the community.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:13
  • 8
    Yeah Brad Larson remarked -- this was "decline because the community can handle it." The OP was then left in the awkward position where they applied the flag correctly, the community agreed, the moderator agreed, but the moderator did not agree they should unilaterally take the action, so the flag was declined more because of the flagginess of it than by being incorrect.
    – djechlin
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:20
  • 4
    Sheesh. It must suck to be a new user here.
    – djechlin
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:20
  • 8
  • 3
    As far as I see, the only reason to flag a question as VLQ under teh current guidelines is when it's such gibberish it can't be improved by an edit from the community. But if it's unintelligible gibberish then the distinction between "very low quality" and "not an answer" is something of a moot point. If a reasonable person can't understand a word you're saying then you're not answering the question in any meaningful way. In other words: this entire VLQ flag seems redundant to me. Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:40
  • 8
    The extremely common workflow of identifying crap that needs to be gotten-rid-of just needs to be made less Byzantine. Deleting your question won't solve anything, it just means that the problem gets pushed under the rug for another day. It hasn't received answers, so it would be totally legitimate to modify your proposal to take the newly-acquired information into account.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 17:51
  • 7
    @NicolBolas I think it's sort of nice that, to a random web user, questions don't have entrails of crappy, wrong answers with negative numbers next to them, that the community could make be not there altogether. I think this is more of a "polish" issue but when you serve 10s or 100s of millions of people, polish goes a long way.
    – djechlin
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 19:06
  • 3
    @nicol Downvotes are one solution, but not sufficient. Are you satisfied by simply downvoting the crap you see on Docs? Doesn't look like it to me. The same thing applies to Q&A. Downvotes don't cause the bad content to go away, they just push it further down the page. I challenge the claim that people won't use info from answers with negative results. I've seen evidence to the contrary, and besides, having that information visible just brings down the overall quality of the site. Besides, new users can't downvote, but they can flag, so they're obviously not equivalent actions.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 4:56
  • 2
    @CodyGray: "Are you satisfied by simply downvoting the crap you see on Docs?" No, but then again, I don't recognize that voting in Docs.SO has a legitimate purpose. So maybe I'm not the one you should ask ;) In any case, I don't like the idea of universally saying that downvoting an answer means that you think it ought to be deleted. I've downvoted plenty of answers that I'm fine with continuing to exist. Downvotes can be employed over a matter of opinion about an approach to a problem, after all. Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 5:00

2 Answers 2

42

The way I see it, there are three paths forward for this flag:

  • Remove the flag entirely.
  • Use it as a quality indicator for kicking things into review, and completely hide it from moderators.
  • Change the nature or action that the flag represents.

I've spoken in favor of hiding it from moderators before. These flags were never clearly used, and when only moderators could handle them we declined a ton of them. The primary use case at that time was for complete trash questions that needed to be deleted immediately.

Then the various review queues kicked in and community members could act on these flags. Flags now send things into review, where there are more actions than just delete. That increases the confusion, because moderators are strict about these and we've been told to handle them as we always have, but many community members are using these to label items that might be of low quality but don't require immediate moderator intervention.

If the flags were completely hidden from moderators, then this would form a closed loop with community review and perhaps the actions on the flag would come closer to what people expect. However, the review queues are currently unable to process these as quickly as they are coming in, which is why moderators frequently handle them. Perhaps reducing the number of reviews required to delete a post in these queues would help with this.

Others have suggested possibly converting it from its current nature to a super-downvote (can't find a relevant request now), where X number of these on a downvoted post led to deletion. I'd need to think that through a bit more to make sure that this couldn't be abused, and this would require developer time to implement and test.

My above suggestion about hiding these from moderators would require little change, I've already seen that review handles these posts surprisingly well, and the only obstacle would be making sure the queues can handle the volume.

2
  • 4
    I think the difference between a -7 answer and a deleted one is basically polish. Better for us they go away, but not timely or critical. Which is to say this should be a safe change, with respect to user expectations for how flags are handled.
    – djechlin
    Commented Jan 4, 2017 at 18:02
  • @djechlin: I've had a post at something like -7 undeleted so I could improve it and it ended up with a positive vote after.
    – Joshua
    Commented Jul 15, 2018 at 19:57
37

I'm seeing maybe four specific rationales for your proposal here:

  1. The flag is an endless source of confusion
  2. There is a disconnect for what moderators should do
  3. Perfectly reasonable flags are declined
  4. "Not Salvageable" is too weaseled

I'm not going to address them in order, but I'm listing them first so you can kinda know where I'm coming from here; if you disagree that those are the main points of your post, then... Stop reading and go edit your post.

Year-end stats

In the spirit of the season, let's start out with some statistics for how flags were handled by moderators in 2016:

Flag type                                    Flags    PctHelpful PctDeclined PctDisputed 
-------------------------------------------- -------- ---------- ----------- ----------- 
Comment Vandalism Deletions (Auto)                  9 100.00 %   0.00 %      0.00 %      
PostExcessiveEditsByOthersAuto                      2 100.00 %   0.00 %      0.00 %      
Question Reopen                                  1813 100.00 %   0.00 %      0.00 %      
Team Offensive                                      2 100.00 %   0.00 %      0.00 %      
Team Other                                          1 100.00 %   0.00 %      0.00 %      
Question Close                                  45673 99.94 %    0.00 %      0.00 %      
Answer Duplicate Answer (Auto)                  13238 99.92 %    0.08 %      0.00 %      
Comment Obsolete                                77924 99.63 %    0.37 %      0.00 %      
Question Recommend Close                         9515 99.58 %    0.32 %      0.02 %      
Comment Too Chatty                              49065 99.36 %    0.64 %      0.00 %      
Post Too Many Comments (Auto)                     713 99.02 %    0.98 %      0.00 %      
PostExcessiveEditsByOwnerAuto                     306 97.06 %    2.94 %      0.00 %      
ReviewLowQualityDisputedAuto                     5060 96.74 %    3.26 %      0.00 %      
Post Excessively Long (Auto)                     1281 96.25 %    3.75 %      0.00 %      
Answer Not An Answer                           192353 95.70 %    4.22 %      0.08 %      
QuestionExcessiveAnswersPostedForAllTimeAuto      220 95.45 %    4.55 %      0.00 %      
QuestionContestedDuplicateAuto                     64 93.75 %    6.25 %      0.00 %      
Comment Not Constructive Or Off Topic           57123 93.08 %    6.92 %      0.00 %      
QuestionExcessiveAnswersPostedRecentlyAuto        101 92.08 %    7.92 %      0.00 %      
Post Rollback War (Auto)                          329 89.97 %    10.03 %     0.00 %      
Mod Revision Redaction Approval                   448 89.29 %    10.71 %     0.00 %      
Post Low Quality                                33582 86.17 %    13.66 %     0.18 %      
Post Vandalism Deletions (Auto)                   553 85.71 %    14.29 %     0.00 %      
Post Spam                                       22294 75.57 %    18.61 %     5.83 %      
Comment Rude Or Offensive                       12078 74.79 %    25.21 %     0.00 %      
Comment Other                                    8369 72.15 %    27.85 %     0.00 %      
Post Offensive                                   6708 67.80 %    25.25 %     6.95 %      
CommentTooManyDeletedRudeNotConstructiveAuto     1060 66.79 %    33.21 %     0.00 %      
Post Vandalism Edits (Auto)                       269 66.54 %    33.46 %     0.00 %      
Post Other                                      37890 57.71 %    42.28 %     0.00 %      

That's all flags that were handled by moderators in 2016, sorted from most-helpful to least-helpful. I've added bold and italic to the line for VLQ (it's called something different internally, for reasons I might get around to discussing later on in this post).

There are a few useful observations here:

  1. Moderators don't handle very many of these. In fact, moderators handle less than half of all VLQ flags raised.

  2. Most of them are helpful. Not as overwhelmingly as Not An Answer flags (which also still manage to collect regular complaints here on meta), but notably more than spam which you'd think would be less ambiguous. Critically, they're MUCH less abused than "Other" flags, of which several times more flags are declined every day - more on that in a bit. Oh - and while it isn't shown in the table above, I feel I must note that the success rate is somewhat worse for flags handled in /review, by ordinary users: only 78.36 % of those are marked Helpful.

  3. In real numbers, Not An Answer has a much bigger impact. Far more NAA flags are processed every day, both helpful and declined. And... I'd guess there's a pretty good chance that removing VLQ would just translate into slightly more NAA and Other flags (last I checked, there was a roughly 9% overlap between NAA and VLQ).

But enough of that crap. Cold, unfeeling statistics are no basis for a decision like this. Instead, let's look at...

The history of Very Low Quality

For the first couple of years of its existence, there was no Very Low Quality flag. When it was introduced in 2011, the goal was to make flagging more inviting:

So in our redesign, we tried to create a kinder, gentler moderator flag dialog -- one that explains typical flag scenarios in a bit more detail.

...Not because flags are fun for the whole family, mind you - there was a pressing need that motivated this new-found focus on usability:

given the recent influx of traffic, we are struggling to keep up while educating question askers and educating answerers. There's no way even the most avid community moderator could possibly keep tabs on 2,500+ questions and 7,500+ answers per day. In order to keep our community tidy and on topic, we need everyone to help us flag the unusual stuff!

In other words, the goal here wasn't really precision so much as it was a set of options that'd lead folks who saw a problem in a direction where they could do something about it. And... It worked! In the month after the change rolled out, the number of flags raised on Stack Overflow doubled after remaining mostly flat for the past year, and pretty much just kept going up for the next three years... By the summer of 2014, 5,000 flags a month had become 50,000 flags a month, successfully scaling with the traffic on the site.

...Now, I'll gloss over the problems that arose trying to handle all of those flags; you've been around for most of that anyway, and I already told that story a couple of years back. The relevant point here is that this flag (along with Not an Answer and all of the close flags) exists because that's how we were able to stay on top of a whelming flood of crap for all these years.

But the question remains... Why [V]LQ? Well, the first "low quality" flag was raised on January 7th of 2011. Prior to that, there was just spam, offensive, and "other"; most things just got typed into "other". Here are the top 100 "other" flags (under 60 characters) for 2010:

not an answer                                     791 
not programming related                           299 
this is not an answer                             223 
duplicate                                         182 
not a real question                               179 
not a programming question                        173 
not a question                                    171 
belongs on superuser                              123 
not a real answer                                 122 
belongs on serverfault                            83  
off-topic                                         79  
duplicate question                                73  
belongs to superusercom                           70  
exact duplicate                                   64  
should be a comment                               64  
comment posted as answer by new user              60  
should be community wiki                          47  
should be cw                                      47  
this isn't an answer                              47  
subjective                                        46  
comment as answer                                 44  
this is not an answer and should be removed       42  
duplicate post                                    40  
should be deleted                                 40  
move to superuser                                 39  
off topic                                         38  
belongs on meta                                   37  
this "answer" is a question i suggest deleting it 37  
belongs on su                                     33  
should be on serverfault                          32  
belongs to superuser                              31  
community wiki                                    31  
should be on superuser                            28  
question as answer                                27  
please delete                                     26  
move to serverfault                               25  
not programming                                   25  
should be moved to superuser                      25  
belongs on superusercom                           24  
superusercom                                      20  
this is a "thanks" answer                         20  
not related to programming                        19  
this is not a programming question                19  
migrate to serverfault                            18  
serverfault                                       18  
should be moved to serverfault                    18  
not an answer tia                                 16  
comment added as answer by new user               15  
not programming-related                           14  
this is not a real answer                         14  
belongs on super user                             13  
doesn't belong here                               13  
duplicate please close                            13  
move to superuser?                                13  
possible duplicate                                13  
question posted as answer by new user             13  
"thanks" answer                                   12  
belongs on server fault                           12  
community wiki?                                   12  
lmgtfy behind tinyurl requesting deletion         12  
needs to be deleted                               12  
this isn't a real answer                          12  
wrong site                                        12  
belongs on serverfaultcom                         11  
duplicate answer                                  11  
duplicates                                        11  
move to meta                                      11  
not in english                                    11  
not really a question                             11  
serverfault?                                      11  
should be a comment, not an answer                11  
should be on superusercom                         11  
superuser question                                11  
this is a comment, not an answer                  11  
belongs on sf                                     10  
belongs on sf?                                    10  
codegolf should be cw                             10  
delete me please                                  10  
non-answer                                        10  
offtopic                                          10  
omg jeff atwood!!!!1!!!                           10  
should be moved to superusercom                   10  
subjective and argumentative                      10  
subjective and off-topic                          10  
this should be a comment                          10  
vague question                                    10  
                                                  9   
another "thank you" answer                        9   
argumentative                                     9   
belongs to serverfault                            9   
comment posted as question by new user            9   
doesn't belong on so                              9   
irrelevant                                        9   
move to su                                        9   
needs deletion                                    9   
noise, should be deleted                          9   
not an answer\n                                   9   
off topic!                                        9   
remove meta tag                                   9   
should be closed                                  9   

As today, the vast bulk fell into two categories: questions that needed to be closed, and things that weren't answers.

...And then there were those "should be deleted" flags, on stuff like this:

fdfdsfs;fdsfsdfsdf sdffdsfds fdsf dsf dsf sdfdsf dsfd sfsd fdsf d

...and, also stuff like this:

I'm sorry. If it is posted, and I can't delete it, I apologize...

...and a bunch of other cases where an author couldn't find the delete button. Clearly, "should be deleted" was just a bit too ambiguous for a flag; only one sane option remained:

Good ol' Chet

Thus, "low quality" came into being, and was immediately hated by one and all.

OK, so that was a long, pointless story... Is there actually a solution here? Or a problem?

Well, yeah, there is a problem, and it's the same problem we've always had: "low quality" means different things to different people. Pretty much everyone agrees on the "cat on keyboard" definition, but then there are...

  • ...very short answers
  • ...answers where writing in English is clearly not a skill that the author possesses
  • ...blatantly, obviously wrong answers, answers that do not reside in the same zip code as anything that might conceivably be correct
  • ...answers where the only legible text was clearly plagiarized from somewhere else
  • ...all of the above

In short... The problem is that we're using one flag for at least 4 different problems, and hoping that both the folks raising the flag and the folks handling it happen to operate under the same assumptions. And surprisingly, they do a good portion of the time, but... There are still cases where someone's flagging in good faith, where the post does need to be removed, and yet whoever is reviewing it just can't see the problem.

And the solution? Well... Add more options. Add a "crappy english" flag, and a "blatantly wrong" flag, and a "plagiarism" flag... And then figure out how to handle those flags in a way that makes sense and doesn't just dump the problem into the laps of the moderators. That last step is a doozy, since if we're gonna bother doing this we have to beat out the 80-85% accurate status quo. But, it could potentially pay off a lot more than the numbers suggest: chances are, there are lots of instances of these problems that aren't being identified right now because the vague flag names discourage folks from flagging.

Things that aren't solutions

Let review handle it

The easy fix here would be just shoving everything into /review and calling it done. The problem with that is... We don't have enough reviewers. So we'd have to prioritize things somehow, and start aging out flags or pretty soon the size of that queue would rival that of Close.

There are probably ways to get more people reviewing, but most all of them would require massive changes to how the review system works - the core of that system is coming up on 4 years old now, and is well past the limits it was designed for.

Find a magic incantation that means the same thing to every living human

The other common suggestion is to replace the words "very low quality" with some other combination of words that will somehow eliminate the ambiguity inherent in having one flag used for multiple purposes. The problem with this approach is that we still have to beat 80-85% accuracy for it to be worth the bother, which remains a pretty high bar - remember, we don't get that from spam.

If we were Facebook, we could test hundreds of variations of wording for various populations of flaggers, until we found the one that somehow worked better than the current system. But we don't have the infrastructure to do that, and even if we did there aren't enough people using this flag to get reliable data in a short period of time - so one way or another, this'd turn into a multi-month project. For the sake of about 12 flags a day.

So this solution usually boils down to a word or phrase that someone likes or thinks will help. That's how we ended up here in the first place though.

Things that aren't problems

Kinda gave this away earlier, but... Moderators disagreeing with flaggers or with each other is : that's why y'all elect moderators, so you can get folks with the diversity of experience and opinion to reflect your own. That's why a huge amount of moderation is done directly by the folks who use the site. The occasional disagreement is a small price to pay for avoiding the sort of ossified system that results when a small group of like-minded people control everything forever. So when you see a question about a declined flag on meta... Rejoice in the opportunity for change.

15
  • 5
    I see hints of a solution scattered about this answer, but I don't see an actual solution. Regardless, +1 for the detailed breakdown of events leading up to now, and the narrative along the way. BTW, when did they remove the "OMG JEFF ATWOOD!!!!1!!" flag reason?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 1:33
  • 4
    I guess the tl;dr here is... "It's a hard problem, made harder because folks forget why we bothered doing this in the first place", @Tiny. And that dialog is a joke - it started out "low quality"; prior to that, folks just typed whatever they felt like into "other", and there were few enough flags that mods could just deal with it (often by doing nothing - there were no declines either).
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 1:42
  • 1
    It is great to know the historical motivation behind these incremental improvements, but I don't think that should limit where we go from here, other than the idea that we should probably stay away from things that have been tried before but didn't work. I think the current motivation is just as important as, if not more important than, the historical motivation. From what I gather, the problem is not nearly as widespread as we are constantly making it out to be, but it is (as you say) a hard problem to solve, and worth continued incremental improvement (imho).
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 20:08
  • Yeah, repeatedly making the same mistakes is bad, @Tiny - but the best way to avoid this is to understand why they were mistakes. Otherwise, they just become superstitions: "we can't do X or, uh, something bad might happen." The critical mistake that NAA and VLQ addressed was that a whole lot of users weren't using flags at all: yes, they were also convenient for power users who previously just typed things into the flag dialog, but power users would've just kept right on doing that, with userscripts or whatever; getting several times more people flagging was the win there.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 20:41
  • I understand that the issue was that people weren't flagging things and introducing the NaA and VLQ flagging options dramatically increased the number of things being flagged / users flagging things. The problem now (much smaller and harder problem to solve) is getting users to flag things / handle flags in a consistent manner. Users want stuff deleted, but moderators don't want to unilaterally delete some of the things, and would rather that they be deleted through some other means, so they decline the flags. (1/2)
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 22:27
  • In the past I've parroted that such things just shouldn't be flagged, and users should wait until they have 20k rep to delete vote such things, only flagging things as if they would be reviewed by a moderator; but that has been met with constant opposition. It seems that the community is not willing to accept that, and wants to be able to flag such content for review by other mortals without bothering moderators. As such, users will continue to flag things incorrectly (with relation to the flag definition) and continue getting declined flags every now and again. (2/2)
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 22:30
  • It's interesting to look at the number of helpful flags that've been raised by the folks who run into trouble here, @Tiny. Usually, it's quite a lot - so by and large, the folks flagging and the folks reviewing (whether mods or normal users) are on the same page already... We seem to run into some sort of loss aversion here, where a declined flag hurts a LOT more than can be assuaged by dozens or even hundreds of helpful ones. Not as bad as in the Flag Weight days, but I'm sure the warnings don't help.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 23:27
  • 3
    But more importantly... Something like 60% of flags are raised by folks who never raise more than 10 flags. There's an extremely long tail here, one that doesn't read meta, doesn't know any "rules" about when stuff should be deleted, doesn't necessarily even care beyond, "here's a bad thing, I should let someone know". That's where having flag options that capture their mental state becomes all-important, and why I suspect the only real solution here is to add more flags for the sorts of scenarios you're calling out there.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 23:30
  • Yeah, I get the loss aversion thing. The vast majority of the time there is absolutely no issue whatsoever. And, like bad audits and plane crashes, you only hear about it when there's a problem. This admittedly is very irregular, but it does keep coming up. I realize that there will never be a perfect system, and there will always be outliers. So basically we need a single new flag, which only sends posts to the LQPRQ, encompasses a reasonable amount of the current outliers, and has a reasonably understandable name. Right?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 5, 2017 at 23:43
  • Heh, no. See "things that aren't solutions" above, @Tiny, and remember that LQ review is on balance even less likely to delete outliers than mods. We probably need several new flags: one to queue up posts for editing, one to queue up posts for plagiarism investigation, one to queue up posts for high-rep / badge-holding users to cast a baleful eye upon, and perhaps even one that does nothing other than remind the flagger to downvote and/or downvote on their behalf. IOW, we need flags that reflect those (very real!) problems you recognize as outliers in today's system.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 0:07
  • Ah, for some reason I read "add more flags" as "add another flag". So... is any of this realistic or are we just fantasizing here?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 0:14
  • All of it's realistic, because I eliminated the unrealistic options, @Tiny. Doesn't make it easy. In all honesty, probably doing well to get even one new flag in the next year.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 0:25
  • Should I ask here for some stats on the 100 most common custom flag messages for the past year, or ask a new meta question?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 1:21
  • You could... They're mostly "link-only answer" and "please delete my question" though, @Tiny.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 1:22
  • Yeah, I guess that doesn't really help much in this case. It would be nice to get some stats on what the most common outliers are, but that doesn't seem possible without going through each malcontent meta post on the topic.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 6, 2017 at 1:25

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