31

Here's an example answer.

As you can see, the answer had been edited really significantly that finally the original answerer felt it necessary to add a disclaimer to the much-edited answer.

What to do in this situation? Roll back to the last version by the answerer?

And how to prevent similar situations from happening, e.g., gently informing the editors that their edits might be MUCH better as a separate answer?

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    Aww, poor guy, trying to disclaim responsibility for a 5 year old answer. Pelted with the likes of "how can one learn ffmpeg commands if he only knows javascript" comments, damn. Can a mod please help him out of his misery and lock it? Commented Feb 14, 2016 at 13:29
  • 5
    How bizarre. Every edit was clearly an improvement to the answer. Also: The original answerer doesn't need to place a disclaimer, anyone can see a question's history for themselves. That's what the "Edited 4 days ago" message is for. Sigh. Commented Feb 16, 2016 at 15:06

4 Answers 4

36

Lets see the comment on the most outstanding edit:

add working example for recent stable FFmpeg

I wouldn't want a working example on the very top for a obsolete version of FFmpeg (most distributions are very sensible due security concerns, so it's safe to presume that most people would be using those), and by the looks of the edit, in the case where answerer said that "worked", it was just changing loop_input for loop 1 parameter which was being depreciated since 2011 (right now is not even recognized option).

This edit was done 2 years after it was posted, and kept the answer still valid today which is one of the biggest goal of Stack Overflow. The other "addition" was removing a command that didn't obtained the desired result "does not work (it generates a video of only one frame)" and replacing it with another example which is more general and is basically the same command given in the wiki plus a forced file format instead of auto-detected.

The actual issue here, and that I would like that we refocus, is that we shouldn't keep outdated information sticking into the top, specially if the "outdating" comes from a natural evolution of the software. If I had to use an analogy it would be like rewriting the entire manual of a piece of software, each time a feature is changed.

Using a more quantitative metric, 36 out of 66 upvotes on the answer, more than half of all votes to date in that answer, came after the edit. That represents that instead of being a source of frustration for years it actually helped some users. The system encourages this kind of edits for the benefit of all of us, and keeps Stack Overflow being one of the authoritative sources of verifiable, trustworthy, practical, uptodate answers for specific programming questions. Lets keep that spirit.

Recommended read

How do we encourage edits to obsolete/out of date answers?

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    Absolutely agree. All that was necessary were a few minor syntax changes to make the command work with recent versions. With ffmpeg, you're always encouraged to use the most recent ones, so there is little to no value in keeping outdated syntax around. LordNeckbeard and I also kinda know what we're writing about ffmpeg.
    – slhck
    Commented Feb 14, 2016 at 15:49
  • 6
    Great answer (yours too @slhck). I'd rather see users providing useful edits to answers than allowing them to fester into popular, yet outdated and potentially misleading answers. However, I realize, especially in my early days, that some of my edits have been too extensive. I can see how it can annoy the answerer, but sometimes it's hard not to get sucked into a rabbithole; especially when 99% of my answers are about one specific cli tool.
    – llogan
    Commented Feb 14, 2016 at 18:44
  • Thanks! Very informative answer, and well explaning the philosophy of the site.
    – pepoluan
    Commented Feb 15, 2016 at 10:59
  • 1
    Wouldn't old, outdated questions and their associated answers naturally die if we weren't so vigilant regarding possible duplicates? If this hadn't been edited, but instead a new question were asked, we would have a new question with new answers... THAT is the preferable solution, from my perspective. (See Jeff Atwood's opinion: blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/11/… )
    – MER
    Commented Feb 16, 2016 at 19:16
  • @MER ideally, no. We should be a living documentation of all possible answers to practical questions specific to programming. And editing to make sure to keep us updated is a good thing. BTW, that blog was more about questions rather than answers.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 5:09
  • @Braiam I agree that the old questions shouldn't actually be closed or gotten rid of, my point is, with less manual effort, if old questions became locked for editing, then at some point a newer question would replace it. New ANSWERS could still be made on either ... but the old one would eventually grow to become less relevant... this would give a wider broadside of the topic from a search engine/user perspective AND provide a more up to date question (with associated answers) as the technology changes, or am I missing something?
    – MER
    Commented Feb 19, 2016 at 19:45
  • Of course this answer is totally correct. Also, it's simply ubiquitous. Anyone who wants to go through and start "removing de-obsoleteing content" on this site (or any software related site), may as well be spitting in the ocean. it's just a non-starter. Everything, every word on SO goes obsolete in a matter of months or a couple yrs at most.
    – Fattie
    Commented Apr 6, 2016 at 13:47
28

Let's dissect this, okay? The first paragraph that was changed:

I've found the solution.

This is a redundant sentence.

Apparently, the order of options in the command line matters

Great, important info, let's keep it.

(which I guess is a bug - EDIT: no it's not a bug, it's expected and necessary).

This is unnecessary if it was found to be expected. If you add something to a post and then later clarify that you were wrong, you might as well delete it.

The following works and is the solution to my question:

Unnecessary sentence.

Then, the code was changed to remove the deprecated -loop_input option—it was already deprecated five years ago!

Instead, the following (which I had already tried) does not work (it generates a video of only one frame)

Why post something that does not work? It'd be better to remove that so as not to confuse people.


Now, there was a paragraph that I added, including some code, which made the answer more canonical. Note that this is a very important concept here on Stack Exchange—we want people who may have similar problems to also find useful information here. That's why I linked to the FFmpeg wiki (which always contains working examples for the most recent versions) and added a more general command, which most probably will fit better for the use cases of other visitors.

Finally, LordNeckbeard (who is also not just a random user, but a very prolific contributor to the FFmpeg mailing list and the ffmpeg tags here on Stack Overflow and other SE sites) edited the post to include a safeguard option that ensures compatibility with different players that only support 4:2:0 chroma subsampling.

In essence, not much changed in this post, except for the removal of a deprecated option that would cause the command to fail working with any recent ffmpeg version, and the addition of a more general example to help future visitors. The idea behind this edit was to improve the post without changing the author's intent—which is giving a solution to the problem in the question.

To be honest, I do not see anything to disagree with there. If I were the author and didn't know much about ffmpeg, I'd be happy for others with more experience to improve the post. The whole idea of Stack Exchange is to provide useful information in a way that can be improved by others, without requiring visitors to scroll through a huge thread just to find the one solution that works. We already have a near-perfect solution at the top of this Q&A thread, so why not fix the minor problems it developed over time?

Finally, the answer could be made community-wiki by the OP if they wanted to reduce their assumed "responsibility" for the post.

And lastly, I'd love for this comment thread to be cleaned up.

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    I agree that it matters to keep top-answers up-to-date, however I disagree about your comment to the OP that "it's clearly visible who edited what": the information is certainly accessible, but it's not too visible and most viewers will instead attribute the answer (fully) to the OP, so I can understand that the OP could be concerned about this (even though in the absence of downvotes he could realize things are probably going well). Commented Feb 15, 2016 at 12:49
  • 1
    @MatthieuM. Yeah, you have a point there. As an author, I would of course be worried if the answer got downvotes or comments like "this doesn't work" after such edits.
    – slhck
    Commented Feb 15, 2016 at 13:27
-5

I feel like this opinion is not going to be very popular, but like pepoluan I think some of the changes made to the post in question seems a bit too much.

On one hand, fixing a command that doesn't work anymore due to an option that was made obsolete (i.e. changing -loop_input to -loop 1) is great.

On the other hand, there's the thing about adding a separate solution (the length of which, along with its explanation/notes, is longer than the original post) to the post - see revision #4. I haven't been active on SO for a while so I'm not up to date with the current majority view on edits, but I personally think additions as substantial as this should be posted as a separate answer. Even if that separate solution is superior, I don't think you should put it into another person's post just like that (unless if the author approves, which doesn't seem to be the case here).

I don't agree with the author putting a disclaimer to "disown" their post, but I can understand where they come from. If I were the author, I would also be uncomfortable with such a significant change to my post.

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    So, you think a proliferation of answers that makes it harder for people to find useful information is a superior solution just because of some feeling that your original contribution is so sacred that it shan't be messed with?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 5:50
  • 1
    I don't know how I came across as conveying that "[my] original contribution is so sacred that it shan't be messed with", after all I did say that fixing parts that don't work is perfectly fine. I'm just saying that if there is a sufficiently different solution then yes it should be posted in/as a separate answer.
    – doubleDown
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 6:36
  • So you think it's better to edit the top-voted answer to include a solution that one deem superior, rather than posting a single separate answer that you say will cause "a proliferation of answers that makes it harder for people to find useful information"?
    – doubleDown
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 6:43
  • 2
    Well, yeah. I mean if the product has changed and you can update the answer to add a better, more up-to-date solution, then I see nothing wrong with that. Far better than having a bunch of different answers.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 6:47
  • I have no problem with updating/fixing a code to get it working with the recent versions. The thing I'm having issue with is the editor adding a significantly different piece of code which is not a fix to the broken code to the answer.
    – doubleDown
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 6:54
  • 3
    I don't really know what else to say. Slhck's answer already covered everything much better than I could in a comment. Since you posted a different answer, I'm assuming you're disagreeing with his. I don't understand why. You keep talking about "adding a significantly different piece of code," while ignoring the fact the only thing removed was a deprecated option that would cause the code to fail on recent versions of the utility and the addition of more general example code to produce a more canonical and therefore more broadly-helpful answer. Yes, I think that's a good thing.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 17, 2016 at 7:18
-10

The ideal course of action, in my opinion, would be to reject or revert the edits to the code, as soon as they are made (in this particular case the edits were made by users with edit privileges, so rejecting them was not an option) and to re-add them in a community wiki answer.

However, since more than a year has passed now since this answer was modified, this has the drawback that the new answer would start with a score of zero, losing all votes it has accumulated in its modified state until now. This is bad not because of some "unfair" karma gain, but merely because it may mislead visitors to this question into thinking that the old answer in its unmodified form has gotten the approval of many previous voters, even thought those votes were intended for the modified version; so those visitors may base their decisions on incorrect data.

I am not sure how to resolve this best. One alternative is of course to let this answer stand as it is, and hope to catch this sort of thing earlier next time.

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    Is not a suggested edit.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 14, 2016 at 11:29
  • At least you tried. Commented Feb 16, 2016 at 23:41

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