2

I was reading several questions about commenting on down-votes so that the OP can know how to improve their question.

From the arguments against requiring a comment are:

  • Commenting might produce arguments
  • Arguments in the comments produce needless noise
  • Downvotes are not for the OP, but for those who are seeking answers and don't want to waste time.
  • Keeps Anonymity
  • Takes too much time
  • Solutions like Enable Optional Anonymous Reasons for Downvotes on Questions might be too noisy

Those are all valid arguments, and there are more arguments on other questions. However it would be a nice feature for the OP to get more detailed feedback as to what is wrong with their question, for those times when the OP really cares for an answer. So in order to have more feedback

I propose down-vote tags aimed specifically at the OP

How it would work: When you click the downvote button you have the additional option of holding down the mouse button and having a flying menu where you move your mouse over the options tags indicating a reason for the downvote, and release. Thereby selecting a preset reason for downvote.

Example of preset reasons

  • Question is unclear
  • Lack of Quality
  • Lack of Research
  • Missing perspective on subject
  • False assertions
  • Needs more info
  • (Whatever is a common trend with questions that need a little help)

The hard part would be that these preset reasons should probably not coincide with a reason why the question should be close as this would essentially double the work of moderators. I think. It should only be in regards to reasons that are helpful for the OP to improve the questions.

You can also have the same fly out menu for the up-vote so that there is a reduction of comments which simply state +1 for acknowledging xyz in your question/answer

Here is a bad illustration of what it will probably never look like, but is just a mockup representation of the interaction. The graphic is currently only showing the positive options, they would be different according to context. But the general idea is that the options for a down-vote would be related to how the OP can improve his answer, and not a flag meant for those who come and look at the question as viewers, as that is what the down-vote is already for. It's a tool for the asker.

A sort of tag system would eliminate the need for the comments that resemble "+1 for xyz; -1 for xyc;" and general pleas for feedback on negative votes from both the comments of said questions as well as from the meta; all the while illuminating the OP as to how to improve their questions.

And these tags would also not be related to the existing tags system meant to categorize questions. It's completely different.

3
  • Eh. I'm not sure how useful this really is.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Jul 15, 2016 at 22:28
  • 3
    @ryanyuyu One of the best attempts I've seen within years though :-P ... Commented Jul 15, 2016 at 22:38
  • In general, I think voting should always require a reason. I've seen too many times where up/down votes are abused for reasons such as "I don't agree with you" and "I like you" and nothing to do with the actual contents of the question/answer. If the reason you are down voting is because the question has a typo or the answer has a bug, one should be leaving a comment to indicate such, not necessarily down voting. I think its wrong not to give someone the chance to correct their mistakes and even worse to enable non-productive behavior. Abuse of voting privileges should be controllable.
    – Adam
    Commented Jan 24, 2023 at 0:48

2 Answers 2

3

At its core, the purpose of voting for a post is so that someone can look at that score and know if that question is a waste of their time or not. That's how the feature is supposed to work. A single number serves that purpose adequately; if someone wants to know more, they can click on it.

That the person making the post might use a downvote as a signal to improve their question is a nice side-benefit, when it happens. But it is not the purpose of voting.

So let's not over-complicate this process. Doing so will lead to either fewer downvotes or people picking downvote reasons arbitrarily.

If someone wants to help improve a question, they can post a comment. But that's not the point of voting, so we shouldn't force people to pick a reason just to downvote.


The goal of this idea is to help encourage the OP of a question to fix problems in it. Which means that the downvoting reasons ought to be sufficient to let the OP know how to do that. So let's look at them:

  • Question is unclear

I'm not sure how this is more helpful than close-voting it as unclear. We're not talking about the MVCE form of unclear (that would be "Needs more info"). We're talking about the general "what you said doesn't make sense" form of unclear.

The OP clearly thought that they were clear. If the OP is going to correct their post, then they need to know what specifically was unclear.

  • Lack of Quality

OK, so how would the OP resolve that? What form of "quality" is lacking in the question? Without knowing, the OP can't make repairs.

  • Lack of Research

Right, but do you really expect the OP to do the research just because you downvoted them? And even if they wanted to... would they know where to look?

  • Missing perspective on subject

So how will the OP gain perspective on the subject without being told what is missing from their current perspective?

  • False assertions

How will the OP know which assertions are false without being told specifically?

  • Needs more info

Thus far, this is the only one that might be useful. But ultimately, it's no more useful to the OP than a "post an MCVE" comment. If their question lacked other kinds of information, then this downvote reason won't explain what's missing.

There's a reason why SO doesn't have a "canned comment" feature built into it. Canned comments are almost always useless for getting a question fixed. Sure, a "post an MCVE" can make one appear. But outside of a few very specific requests like that, canned comments aren't specific enough to actually tell the OP what needs fixing.

Canned comments primarily make the poster feel better. They don't actually get the question fixed.

9
  • 1
    +1 Because Waffles. Or Unicorns. Or Jon Skeet. Or all three.
    – theB
    Commented Jul 16, 2016 at 0:46
  • @theB we really have an option?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 16, 2016 at 1:37
  • 2
    -1 for lack of reading comprehension: Proposal already says "tags" are optional. Commented Jul 16, 2016 at 2:15
  • Click the down-vote and move on; click and hold the down-vote, and then you have the option.
    – Mallow
    Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 14:51
  • @Mallow: Option to do what? Fire off an anonymous comment that, as I explained, will in no way help the OP? Canned comments are not helpful in most cases. Simply saying, "this is unclear" does not explain how it is unclear, and therefore cannot help the OP clarify it. Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 15:01
  • @NicolBolas If that's really an issue then you can can part of a response: "clarify your definition of " [fill in the blank] but just looking at the front page today at the negative question [Welcome to SO, please show your coding efforts, SO is not a code writing service] the first comment on question 38422595 can easily be canned
    – Mallow
    Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 15:07
  • @Mallow: We already have a close vote reason for not providing an MCVE. Why do we need a canned comment for it too? Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 15:38
  • @NicolBolas I'm proposing a tool for the question asker, but I get the impression you are seeing it from the other side. Are questions just asked immediately marked to be close if they are not providing MCVE or is the op given a chance to address the issue. I think it's off putting for new users trying to ask questions on the network without any help. I've been a member for years now and I use SE as a last resort because it seems so unfriendly. I think it's an issue. You may disagree. I leave it at that.
    – Mallow
    Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 17:20
  • @Mallow: "Are questions just asked immediately marked to be close if they are not providing MCVE or is the op given a chance to address the issue." Yes. We have a close-vote reason specifically for that. If we didn't want questions closed for that reason, we wouldn't have it be a reason to close questions. "I think it's off putting for new users trying to ask questions on the network without any help." It's off-putting for old users to be given questions that are unanswerable as they are written. If the cost to get rid of such questions is being "off putting", I'll gladly pay it. Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 17:23
1

I've actually had an almost identical feature in mind for a while now, so I'm pleased to see someone take this up. You didn't specifically say how the proposal handles the usual objections, which is worth making more explicit, I think, so here goes:

  • Commenting might produce arguments

    There are no comments, just votes and reasons.

  • Arguments in the comments produce needless noise

    Same as above: a large source of arguments is eliminated.

  • Downvotes are not for the OP, but for those who are seeking answers and don't want to waste time.

    Doesn't affect speed of voting much (since the normal flow is the same), and doesn't affect speed of reading score at all, and by reducing noise in general actually improves it.

  • Keeps Anonymity

    Voting anonymity can easily be preserved if the list of sub-reasons/tags is kept to a predefined list. It's a bit more difficult if free-form reasons are allowed, as there would then need to be the ability to flag abusive reasons, but those can be left to regular comments.

  • Takes too much time

    Takes less time than comments and may take no more time than voting.

  • Solutions like Enable Optional Anonymous Reasons for Downvotes on Questions might be too noisy

    The reasons should normally be hidden away behind a hover (or shown only to the post author, as the case may be), so this would not be a problem.

I would also suggest that rather than a click-and-hold, a popup simply appear in a suitable place after voting that goes away on click, subsuming the notification popups shown after downvoting.

Finally, I think filling out the two missing lists of reasons is worth doing. You don't really list question upvote reasons, or answer downvote reasons, so here are the ones I can think of for questions:

  • Good research, well summarized
  • Clear and engaging writing
  • Widely applicable problem

And for answers:

  • Does not work well
  • Worse than similar answer posted earlier
  • Subtle or hidden problems that will surface later
  • Explanation is lacking

An interesting quirk is that, for answer downvotes, the information actually is useful for searchers and should perhaps be displayed a bit more prominently. An answer with a few "subtle problem" downvotes is much more suspect than one with a few "explanation lacking" downvotes. (Although, of course, the actual specific subtle problems should probably be put in a comment as well.)

5
  • "Keeps Anonymity" That raises an interesting question. If I want to downvote a question, but I also care enough to want to help the OP improve the question... why would I want to remain anonymous while doing so? After all, if the OP fixes the problem, he can't inform me that he's done so, so that I might be able to remove the no-longer-appropriate downvote. Or even better, answer the now-fixed question. Commented Jul 16, 2016 at 2:58
  • @NicolBolas: That's a poorly-solved problem in general, but my script for detecting edits after votes (shameless plug!) handles that just as well as any other case. Commented Jul 16, 2016 at 3:04
  • @NicolBolas Keeps anonymity, if you vote down and provide feedback, and then happen to come back and take a look, you can reverse your down vote to an upvote therefore removing the tag.
    – Mallow
    Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 14:52
  • @Mallow: "then happen to come back and take a look" And how would that happen, exactly? I mean, do people keep a list of crap questions that they've downvoted, then every day go over that list to see if they're better? Quite frankly, I've got better things to do with my time. The way I see it, if I care enough to want the question improved, then I care enough to engage with the OP via a comment. Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 14:55
  • 1
    @NicolBolas That's you, not everybody uses stackexchange to the same capacity. Just because you don't keep track, doesn't mean others don't. If I leave a comment as an attempt to help the OP then I will save it and visit it for about a week before letting it go. If you did leave a downvote and left a comment as well, then if the OP @ you then you will see the question again. Or, as Nathan Suggests, use his script :) My proposal is not saying that you are obligated to care, it only proposes that you have the option to.
    – Mallow
    Commented Jul 17, 2016 at 15:03

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .