92

We’ve completed two rounds of A/B tests and we’re ready for phase 3, a final round of testing before we release the new site wide navigation to all users on Stack Overflow (English) and MSO. If you’d like to participate, just go to your user settings under Preferences and opt in to the "New Site Navigation test".

Results of the previous tests

Both previous tests showed great results: users shown the new top nav clicked navigation links 143% more than those shown the current design. This leaves us reasonably confident in the utility of making these tools more accessible. But, there are still a large number of people (including most of our most avid users) who haven’t been involved, so for this final round of testing we want to open it up to everyone; if you weren’t part of the A/B tests, now is your chance to kick the tires!

The goal of this week’s test is to uncover any bugs we missed. Once we’ve resolved any major bugs, we’ll roll it out for everyone. Please create a new post with the tag or post an answer to this question if you find new bugs.

As always, we appreciate your feedback. While there won’t be any major feature changes between now and the first full release, we’ll consider all your ideas for future updates.

57
  • 22
    Can we opt back out if we opt in?
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 2:35
  • 32
    Is more clicks necessarily a good thing? I'd think that you'd want to minimize the number of clicks users make, a more than doubling of clicks sounds concerning.
    – bjb568
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 3:44
  • 6
    @bjb568: That depends on whether it's an increase in clicks per task or tasks clicked on; it doesn't seem plausible that it's entirely one or the other, so a breakdown would be necessary. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 3:45
  • 14
    FYI: it looks like auto-activation is disabled for this, meaning someone has to manually approve folks after they check the box. I don't know if this is an oversight or if there's some intent at rate-limiting here, so I'll wait for a dev to check the queue in the morning (probably the UK morning, so relatively soon). In the meantime, nothing's broken - there are currently 72 of you waiting for your access to be activated.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 4:55
  • 36
    So how sure are you that the +143% nav link clicks are not due to the lack of contrast confusing people, leading to misclicks all the time? :P Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:08
  • 5
    I have enabled auto activation and enabled the new header for everyone who opted in before that.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:17
  • 26
    FYI, I forgot the bar was sticky. I opted out again as soon as I noticed. (So, as soon as I left the preferences and started scrolling. ~5 seconds, maybe?) Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:52
  • 17
    Yet more pointless blank space eating up my screen. Please reduce the vertical spacing everywhere outside text blocks.
    – philipxy
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:11
  • 10
    @HermannDöppes I didn't know it was sticky, opted in, kinda liked it at first and then quickly opted out when I scrolled down and realized it
    – Lamak
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 13:55
  • 62
    Every phase I have looked in on this I see complaints about the contrast and sticky bar. It makes me wonder if you really "appreciate your feedback.". Considering the comments and posts are consistently the most heavily upvoted. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 14:19
  • 10
    @HermannDöppes same here. Removing sticky headers is one of my most frequently created custom adblock rules. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:47
  • 16
    Haven't read all the comments, so maybe someone already mentioned this, but couldn't an uptick of people clicking things in the toolbar just mean that people are exploring / getting used to the new toolbar? Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 21:31
  • 23
    Here's the bar with minor changes - No obnoxious orange line, no obnoxious box shadow, and the best gray background (#f3f3f3), and a 1px bottom border.
    – Kobi
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:16
  • 14
    I'm really sorry but... I don't like it, not because it's new or a change, but because I just don't think it works. Its like a jack of all trades and master of none. Perhaps it would be better if it wasn't sticky but nobody needs that much information at their constant beck and call, its a waste of vertical space. Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 14:30
  • 19
    What's any of this for? Such a huge amount of time spent here, by the devs and the community, and for what, exactly? I've read all 3 Meta posts about these design changes and still have no idea what purpose even a single one of the changes is supposed to serve. Wouldn't soliciting feedback be more effective if you told the community what your objectives are?
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 15:13

68 Answers 68

487

The new top nav needs a dark theme. Since the design/moderation team has gone through with the white/white theme, all I can do is to help people get the dark theme back. To that end, you can use the Stylish add-on with Dimitri’s dark theme:

alpha

82
  • 183
    Conditionally upvoting this… I strongly agree that a white toolbar against a white background is a bad choice, and think that the nav bar desperately needs more contrast. However, I don't actually support switchable "themes". The development cost isn't worth it, and things don't need to be that customizable—it just creates confusion. We don't need a "dark theme" and a "light theme". We just need a nav bar with reasonable contrast that stands out from the page's background.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 9:40
  • 35
    I've flicked away and back to StackOverflow a few times since I've had this toolbar and my initial thought every time I land is the difficulty I have differentiating the start of the page content from the heading... +1
    – Henders
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 9:54
  • 31
    I'm not even strongly opposed to darkening the new top nav a bit, but the way you're turning this question into a narrative of "the people vs. those in power" because you disagree with something isn't helping your case. If "someone in charge likes it", maybe someone not in charge likes it as well? Maybe consider the possibility that a lot of people have worked on it (including "moderator Paweł", who by the way is one of the designers on this), and that those people (whether in charge or not) who have a different opinion from yours might have motivation beyond just ignoring users for sport.
    – balpha StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:08
  • 18
    For the record, the same (but opposite) request existed for the dark top bar as well.
    – balpha StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:08
  • 19
    I have to agree, tried it for all of 5 minutes then switched it off...the white on white is just horrible.
    – user692942
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:16
  • 15
    @Lankymart 5 minutes isn't long enough to try a new UI when you've possibly been using the old one for years.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:36
  • 16
    I messed around a bit and I agree, a darker color looks really nice. i.imgur.com/zvs35pG.png Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:52
  • 14
    "Being ignored" isn't the same as "not getting the outcome you hoped for." And contrast was added between the first version and this. Personally, it hasn't fixed all my concerns, which is why I'm not only not "not ignoring" you, I'm personally agreeing with you. But in despite your suggestion in the post, I'm not forcing a designer or PM to make a change just because I think more visual contrast would help. I'm encouraging them to consider the feedback here in the context of the overall goals, and to weigh what's not here - no one's posting "keep it white"... cuz it's already white.
    – Jaydles Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:29
  • 8
    Somebody posted links to some UI design articles in their comment for an answer to another question regarding the new nav bar, and in one of them, it said that, for sticky nav bars, its colour should contrast with the rest of the page. So if you're going to insist on it being sticky, then it shouldn't be white like the rest of the page. (I would prefer it to be not sticky, or at least give is a setting so that we can choose for ourselves.)
    – RobH
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:53
  • 14
    @StevenPenny i don't ignore you. in addition to what Kurtis said: i've answered XaverKapeller comment because he brought up thing that hasn't been discussed before and has no feedback from me. one thing you have to understand is that i'm not here to argue with anyone. i'm here to help Community and do what i can to make experience better. i'm not an enemy. also one more thing to understand as well is that i'm trying to pay attention not only to feedback on meta but also other aspects: numbers we track, users not being on meta, branding, user interviews and really many other things.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 18:34
  • 22
    @StevenPenny Sometimes, when you notice that people feel like they're being attacked, the best way to communicate what you think is important isn't ramping up the amplitude on what you've been saying. We're hearing many people speaking at once, some saying that the nav is way too noticeable, and we're trying to reconcile all of that along with feedback that it's way too subtle into something that we can actually do to improve it. You're ramming your point here, quite loudly; if you perceive folks with their fingers in their ears, maybe turn down the volume?
    – user50049
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 19:39
  • 11
    @Cerbrus it is natural that people usually express they don't like something rather than they like something. so you won't see too many posts saying "i love white" because of that. i suspect that if we create dark design (and not white) there would be lots of voices saying "i don't like dark, i wanna light" instead "i love dark".
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:03
  • 13
    Feature request: Polls for announcements. Allow the community to weigh in, in a measurable, unbiased manner. For this specific example, the poll could be a choice of 3 different mock-ups: Light, dark, and somewhere in between. (@Oded)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 12:52
  • 27
    FWIW, just adding myself to the chorus of respectful but firm dislike of the Blinding White Status Bar of Eternal Stickiness. It just screams as a solution in search of a problem. Tried it for a while, went back to the current one while its still available. I do wish someone on the SE side understood that Contrast Is A Good Thing.
    – David W
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 20:05
  • 14
    Funny that GitHub just switched to a dark top nav and it looks terrible, and SO is switching to a white one and that looks terrible Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 22:56
198

Bring back colour cues

I loved the visual distinction between new messages (red), new achievements (green) and new mod messages (blue).

That distinction is now almost entirely gone; everything but the achievements box is now blue on grey icons. I now have to judge by location what I am looking at, and it is rather noisy. Especially with the large numbers for the review queue and moderator flag queue, these drown out my inbox numbers for me, blurring together a bunch on now-contextless numbers:

bunch of blue numbers


Example of the current, fixed status:

enter image description here

29
  • to be clear: achievements are still green. as for moderators - we are working on something new for them, but don't tell anyone.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:18
  • 4
    @Paweł: nope, achievements are blue, see screenshot.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:26
  • @Paweł - does that include restoring the single click to get to the admin dashboard?
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:31
  • @MartijnPieters ok, that's definitely a bug. fix in progress..
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:34
  • @ChrisF yes it does.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:35
  • @Paweł: fix applied? It just turned green.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:37
  • Different code paths, @MartijnPieters - I am fixing the "initial load" one.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:42
  • 55
    Yes, notifications in red is pretty crucial methinks. Otherwise it's too easy to ignore them among the other identically coloured badges.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:00
  • 2
    @Paweł - I've also had instance where the achievement shows up in blue (all notification blue). It is only after refreshing the page that it changes to green.
    – Nkosi
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:03
  • 1
    @Oded Mine is still blue on first load. Fix not published yet? Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 20:29
  • 2
    @Bradley: only on page load they are green. On websocket updates they are blue. Annoying.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 8:33
  • 4
    This is more important than I assumed at first. I suddenly found myself ignoring replies because the color cue is the same as the one that is now always there, blue review. As the review one will always be there with some numbers, it is key that it has a different color, and it has to be a color that does not draw that much attention as the achievements/inbox. Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:03
  • 9
    inbox color will be red again. fix is waiting repo, so should be live after next build.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 11:33
  • 1
    @Oded: where's a new badge when you need it..
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 17:38
  • 1
    @MartijnPieters review queues notification has returned to orange
    – Nkosi
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 12:54
157

(ish) - We're adding a setting to disable fixed/sticky navigation

I'm still not a big fan of the bar being sticky. It doesn't take up as much vertical space as I feared, but it still takes up some, and unnecessarily so. What is the point of sticking the navigation into my face when I'm trying to comprehend a long post and want 1) as much vertical real estate as possible and 2) as little distraction as possible by any notifications?

Going back up to the navigation is one flick of a finger or one press of a button, so I'm not seeing what a permanently visible bar accomplishes.

29
  • 60
    Oh dear God no! The trend for sticky top navigation bars is horrendous, especially on constrained window devices such as phones. If I want the navigation bar I know where it is (hint: right there at the freakin page top, just like on every. Other. Single. Site!), it's not like I've forgotten in the time it took me to scroll down an inch! >.<
    – Toby
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:00
  • 8
    @Toby we haven't done anything to mobile theme - header is still not sticky on mobile.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:04
  • 24
    @Paweł And it's even easier to scroll up on desktop. Scrolling or pressing the home key isn't a massively onerous task, is it? Please please please, leave top navigation where it belongs, at the top!
    – Toby
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:07
  • 27
    @Paweł BTW, what's even worse is those sticky nav bars that disappear when scrolling down but then reappear when scrolling up... sure they're handy sometimes but I truly do find for the most part they are more often just in the way.
    – Toby
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:09
  • 18
    @Paweł FWIW, I use the desktop site on my phone, and the sticky nav bar is so obtrusive there, I immediately opted out after it finally activated. Please at least make it a user setting.
    – Mike M.
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:54
  • 10
    @Toby noooo, saying things like "sure they're handy sometimes" is exactly what's needed to rationalize these horrible inventions:P Watch your language! Baad, bad sticky bar. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 13:11
  • 14
    @Paweł unless you're going to overhaul the mobile view at the same time, some actions are still only available in desktop view and the official response is "use desktop view on mobile for those." The sticky bar becomes much more obtrusive in that case.
    – davidism
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 13:41
  • 4
    @Paweł also, since it's sticky, it doesn't scroll with the rest of the viewport when zoomed in on mobile, so it becomes unusable.
    – davidism
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 14:52
  • 10
    @Pawel: I can see the appeal of the sticky bar for casual visitors, that have dropped in for a quick answer and are now lost in a big page. But after using this for a full day as a power user the sticky top bar is distracting quite useless. I never need the Documentation, Jobs or Tabs links, the rest only occasionally, and when answering I want to glance at the question from time to time at which point the notifications are a distraction. Please separate your design goals into 'casual' and 'power' groups; it is the latter group that is complaining loudly about the stickyness, I suspect.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 8:49
  • 5
    @Pawel: I'm not saying the links should be removed. I just don't need to see them all the time. Not when most of my time goes to interacting with the current page content. I want to be here, not somewhere else.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:05
  • 8
    @deceze majority (like seriously a lot) of our traffic comes from google (both anonymous and loggedin). they very often land in the middle of the page on specific answer (or just quickly scroll down without paying attention to anything we have on top, very often omitting even question itself). so people simply ignore Stack Overflow as a website and everything we offer them, it's more like a place with answers. we're trying to do what's best for users, but we also need something from users because it's the only way this ecosystem may exist. i hope that answer makes sense.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:11
  • 5
    @Paweł I can follow that reasoning. But I still don't like the sticky bar, and it arguably serves zero purpose for me. Have you considered making stickiness a preference and/or limiting it to unregistered/new users?
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:13
  • 5
    @Paweł Totally, I for one wouldn't want to be in charge of maintaining that. ;-P But I'd very much appreciate you implementing it.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:20
  • 10
    For people with small monitor laptops this nav is a big problem... Literally... Please please make the stickiness optional in the settings. Its just too robust and takes too much of the screen to easily interact with the app Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:08
  • 5
    Why I don't want a sticky header - the introvert reason: this may sound silly, but when I'm at work with an SO answer open, or showing someone else an SO answer, I sort of prefer not to have my photo and reputation showing, so I scroll down a little. I mean, it isn't a secret, but I don't like how it's always there.
    – Kobi
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 19:05
98

The site switcher menu is too narrow and too close to the notification items and too fickle in staying open. It's natural to want to click on the menu and then move the mouse diagonally to the item in the menu you want to click on, which are all on the opposite left aligned side. Doing so almost inevitably means I'm crossing through the neighbouring notification menu item, which closes the site switcher menu and opens that menu instead. Which is infuriating and requires super delicate mouse movements to avoid.

spurious freehand arrows and circles

18
  • 7
    I'd provide a GIF, but that inevitably means exposing the contents of the moderator-only menu, which is probably not a good idea… :)
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:50
  • 1
    I agree it is very annoying, once you click the item, the hover take a place to open the rest of items, which is really annoying. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:52
  • 1
    i agree this might be a problem sometimes and we do have it on our plate for next iterations. the reason why it works this way is because we wanted to keep behaviour close to old topbar (which is still in use on other sites in the network). so updating dropdowns (including behaviour on hover) and topbar on other sites is on our roadmap for next iterations.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:56
  • 9
    @Paweł The hover behaviour was fine while the menu button was very wide and both the button and the menu items where aligned on the same side. It's pretty untenable when the layout is such that you have to cross diagonally though another menu item… Hope you'll get to it rather sooner than later.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:58
  • 1
    @deceze i'm sure we will get there as soon as we can. thanks for feedback!
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:01
  • 1
    If I aim for any of the sites in the upper half of the popup, I hit the neighboring icon and the popup is closed. I hit that bug immediately and consistently several times. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:40
  • I also find this extremely annoying. What might be related is that the menu opens to the left of where you clicked while the others open somewhat in the middle or to the right. Maybe our users who are used to right-to-left reading find this particular menu easier?
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 12:52
  • Possible solution: Align the left edge of the popup with the left edge of the icon. If the webpage isn’t wide enough, align the right edge of the popup with the right edge of the window. This could actually work for all of the icons.
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 12:53
  • 1
    This is a problem with all the menus, not just the site switcher. For some reason I had no problem when the small menus were anchored left instead of right.
    – davidism
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:29
  • 9
    The cursed diagonal movement. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:59
  • 2
    we're about to fix it soon. more info here.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:49
  • 1
    @AnderBiguri I've just got in this morning - it's changed overnight, you can now take the diagonal route - it's much better :) Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 8:31
  • 1
    yes, it's been fixed.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:13
  • 1
    This fix had a big impact on my satisfaction with the top bar. That right-hand section is very nice to use now IMO.
    – Henders
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:16
  • 2
    @JamesThorpe You can take the diagonal route, but you have to click on each icon to open the menu instead of just floating between the menus. This was only half a solution in my opinion. Implementing the diagonal movement detection would have been nice. This "fix" was just disabling some functionality.
    – Cᴏʀʏ
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 15:47
91

There is no link to help center any more:

Any new user (who isn't aware of the link in the footer) won't see any way to get help when in need, and this will no doubt increase the amount of trivial questions here on MSO. (by those who will find it.)

Turns out low rep users do have it, so it's less terrible than I thought.

Still, I would like to have it as well - useful as shortcut.

10
  • Apparently it's still there for newbs. meta.stackoverflow.com/q/343165/476
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:16
  • @deceze huh, true. Got it with my sock Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:23
  • 55
    I find it useful as I fairly often want to point people at the relevant section.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:26
  • 22
    I second finding this useful. To summarize my points on the question posted about this: I use the help link often, to either remind myself of things or to help people. I don't want to hit the footer and search the links there for help. This breaks my flow for helping people.
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:48
  • 2
    Work-around until this is fixed: click achievements, then (in the top-right corner of the achievements box), click badges, then on the badges overview page, use the breadcrumbs to go to the help center. sigh.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:08
  • 4
    @MartijnPieters well, link in footer still exists. Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:17
  • 3
    If you use the keyboard shortcuts, we've added G -> E for help (H was taken by Homepage), as with all navigational shortcuts, shifting will open it in a new tab.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:38
  • Thanks @Oded, not using it myself but other probably are. :) Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 9:42
  • 3
    The help link is still there for anonymous and users without access to the review queue. We appreciate that this is still an issue for some users and are thinking of ways to fix that - but this will not happen for launch, but some time afterwards.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 16:35
  • @Oded yeah, I know, and noticed you added links to privileges and badges in the achievements dialog, so at least for me that's enough. Thanks! Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 18:38
64

- We're adding a setting to disable fixed/sticky navigation

The sticky toolbar was sure to be controversial. I'll add myself to the group that does strongly dislike it. I don't really mean the reduced vertical space for the rest of the content, I use a relatively big screen and I'm not really worried about that aspect. But I find the sticky toolbar irrationally distracting, and there isn't really a way to fix that.

So what I'd request is to make the stickiness configurable. I know SE hates preferences, but I thought I could at least ask.

2
  • 15
    Other than it being sticky, i like it. It being sticky though kills it for me, i keep finding myself wanting to see what's under it.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:09
  • 1
    this request seems like the same as the request by @deceze♦ meta.stackoverflow.com/a/343132/2809828 ?
    – wiz_lee
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 0:55
59

I too am strongly against the white-on-white, I feel like I'm straining my eyes (don't worry carpetsmoker - my screen is set up correctly)

I think a light grey (#efefef, maybe even lighter) would give enough contrast without spoiling the design.

enter image description here

Additionally, I think it would be better for the site switcher menu to not hide when it loses :hover status but rather when it truly loses focus (unless you can tweak the layout so that you don't have to go down, then across?) (fixed)


Positives: There is something quite nice about "simpler" look overall and I do like the little things like the badge "jump" when you hover over an icon.

In summary, I am in favour of the change - it's really just the white on white that I can't live with.

7
  • 18
    Wow that top bar with gray looks really nice. That is just what I was hoping for. Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 1:01
  • @MarcoMan GitHub uses a lighter color, #f5f5f5, for the background and #e5e5e5 for the bottom border, and the contrast looks pretty good. I just added and answer that demonstrates this.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 7:02
  • 3
    White on white looks like polar bear in a snow blizzard. Too much white...
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 14:12
  • 1
    This gray seems better than black or white. Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 17:00
  • Doth my eyes deceiveth me? That nav bar looks a tad light gray :) #fafafb - good work! Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 12:45
  • This says status-completed, but I'm seeing white on white still on the live site.
    – Kelderic
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 19:25
  • @AndyMercer I've changed it back - I think the new nav colour has only been rolled out for some users... Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 19:35
53

Notifications have lost some nuance

When comparing new to old, I do like how compact the new notification section is:

New notifications

Old notifications

But I also notice that the "achievement" icon on the old top bar is glowing green. That's a subtle indication that I have a badge somewhere. No particular hurry to see it, so it's not as noticeable as the red number 7 showing my unread inbox count. Meanwhile, the blue diamond is also glowing to let me know that there is something unread in my moderator inbox (typically mod messages and meta posts). Again, these aren't as pressing as flags, so the indicator is a color change rather than a number. As far as I can tell, this behaviour is missing from the new top bar.

The orange box with a 5 in it shows the number of reviews. On the new bar, the color is blue as Martijn points out, so the review notification tends to blend in with the rest. Somewhat paradoxically, it demands more of my attention now. Thinking about it, I think the color is only part of the problem. Since the site-level notifications are in the same space as the notifications I really care about (my inbox and achievements) they get slightly confused in my mind. I worry this is going to result in the same sort of notification fatigue I developed on LinkedIn:

Notification fatigue

(Though, to be fair, I stopped caring about my LinkedIn profile long ago because it wasn't terribly relevant.)

I'm curious if it would be possible to:

  1. Restore the "glowing icon" notification for minor items.
  2. Add more color to differentiate the various notification numbers. (I think this is already being planned.)
  3. Move the inbox and achievement notifications before the user's avatar to provide a clear separation between personal and community notifications.

So far I like the new locations for most of my cheese. But I do wish there was a quicker path to the help center and meta/main (depending on where you are). I also feel like some of our hidden away tools have gotten more hidden. I like how clean the menu is, but I'm missing a grab bag of links as the "help" menu eventually turned into. It's a tradeoff and I'm well aware my needs are not mainstream. I just wish there were some path to get to the geitost for those of us who have a taste for it.

7
  • I fully agree with all the points you mentioned, except #3 - I think it looks better when all the icons are grouped together.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 23:57
  • 5
    The lack of color differentiation is a bug that will be fixed before launch.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 2:09
  • yes, we're going to bring back red number for inbox in coming build. we are also working on some improvements for mod navigation that gonna be released hopefully soon.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 11:50
  • Cheers, was going to report this as well now. Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:35
  • 4
    The review-queue button being in the same color, place, and shape as the notifications I actually care about (inbox, achievements) is so distracting that I had to use adblock to hide that element so it is not constantly grabbing my attention. The old orange one was ignorable enough that I left it there, meaning that on rare occasions I could actually click on it if I felt like doing some reviews. Now that I've had to hide the button, I will never click on it.
    – amalloy
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 17:16
  • @amalloy: I suspect most people won't hide the button (mostly because it's a pain) and that more reviews will be done as a result. But I'm not sure that's a good thing. The review queue is hardly ever personally relevant, but the inbox and recent achievements are always of interest and almost always more pressing. That said, I had similar concerns with the previous topbar change and I mostly learned to ignore the problems. So, maybe they weren't problems? I'm not sure. This is the sort of thing that makes it so hard to evaluate changes like this.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 17:23
  • In addition to a quicker path to meta, it would also be nice if there was a quicker path to your network portfolio. Basically, it would be nice if those 2 buttons can be moved to the top-bar instead of having them just hidden in the user profile.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 4:45
45

Some people like to review queues other than Suggested edits. Please make the review button a dropdown like the other ones in the row and show all of the accessible review queues. Also, please allow us to change the number shown to be something other than the number of pending suggested edits, or nothing at all.

Mockup:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="https://cdn.sstatic.net/Sites/stackoverflow/all.css?v=1fd832a99b89">

<div class="topbar-dialog siteSwitcher-dialog">
  <div class="header">
    <h3><a href="//stackoverflow.com/review">review queues</a>
            </h3>
    <a href="#" id="edit-pinned-sites">pin</a>
  </div>
  <div class="modal-content" id="your-communities-section">

    <ul class="my-sites">
      <li>
        <a href="">
          Help and Improvement
          <span class="rep-score">294</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a href="">
          Triage
          <span class="rep-score">174</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a href="">
          First Posts
          <span class="rep-score">73</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a href="">
          Low Quality Posts
          <span class="rep-score">72</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a href="">
          Suggested Edits
          <span class="rep-score">59</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a href="">
          Late Answers
          <span class="rep-score">7</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a class="disabled-link">
          Close Votes
          <span class="rep-score">8.4k</span>
        </a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a class="disabled-link">
          Reopen Votes
          <span class="rep-score">123</span>
        </a>
      </li>
    </ul>
  </div>
</div>

3
45

I'd just like to request the addition of a Privileges link since it looks like there'd be room for it beside Badges. I actually use the privileges link more than I do badges because it has a greater influence over my use of the site - where I can review, edit, etc.

Apart from that, I actually have very few complaints about the new nav bar so far.

Add a link to privileges here

5
  • 5
    Yes, please add this! There are many other users who would like this as well: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/341806/…
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 19:14
  • 3
    This is a great suggestion, easy to implement, serves a purpose, and solves a problem. Well done! I hope this gets put in.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 1:39
  • 2
    Yes please! this is the page i go to the most in the help center, and that seems like a great place for it.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 16:40
  • 2
    good idea! it should appear with one of coming builds.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 19:39
  • 1
    This appears to be status-completed now.
    – Cᴏʀʏ
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 4:25
41

enter image description here

That notification annoys the hell out of me. Like really a lot. I continuously think I have a new reply, comment, upvote or whatever, only to discover it's the review queue.

The constant blue icon in my top right constantly nags at the back of my brain, there's something, there's something.

Please make it less conspicuous that it drags less attention. I sometimes spend time in the review queue, mostly not.

But since the menu is now ALWAYS in my sight because it's sticky, it will constantly nag me/be in my face instead of be gone when I scroll down.

I have a simple solution for this: If I don't hover the menu, let it be gray.

.so-header:hover .js-review-button .js-unread-count {
   background-color: #07C;
}
.so-header .js-review-button .js-unread-count {
   background-color: #ccc;
}
11
  • 2
    I prefer this: .js-review-button .js-unread-count { display: none; } :)
    – DavidG
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 1:06
  • 1
    I see what you want, but i don't agree, i do like the reminder to "do my part" just not as prominent constantly Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 6:09
  • 5
    As an experienced user, seeing that number never makes me want to go and review anything. Absolutely make it distinct from "real" notifications, but other than that it's really just an annoyance.
    – DavidG
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 10:35
  • 1
    @Tschallacka I changed it to .so-header:not(:hover) .js-review-button .js-unread-count { background-color: #9fa6ad !important; }, which removes the need for 2 styles and makes it the same color as the buttons when not hovered.
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 11:06
  • Yeah, that number is meaningless to me. I'd just as well see reviews off of my top bar entirely. Another thing I really dislike about it: it is a link, while all the other icons there are dropdowns.
    – Frank
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 18:10
  • Disagree. We want people to hit the review queues.
    – Raphael
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 17:17
  • @Raphael well, I don't mind going to the review queue, but i hate fake notifications. The amount doesn't go down, its an sisyphusian task without reward that the number goes down. The number even appears completely random. Thats why i want it only visible when i hover the nav bar Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 17:55
  • @Tschallacka So a colorful mark that says "do something!" without the actual number would be okay?
    – Raphael
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 21:16
  • it would actually. Its a psychological thing I guess. But if i see that number and i perform actions I'd expect the number to go down as a reward until it reaches zero. If it doesn't it rather have it being an orange numberless ball. The number is meaningless at this moment. Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 21:18
  • 1
    We made it orange instead: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252843/…
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 7, 2017 at 22:17
  • awesome. Great work @Shog9 Commented Apr 8, 2017 at 0:21
37

Is there any need for users with less than 2k to have the suggested edits button?

Until I get to 2k I can only imagine it would be somewhat irrelevant:

enter image description here

EDIT: As pointed out in the comments, the tooltip says:

enter image description here

But then leads you to Suggested Edits (https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits). I guess it should actually lead to the review queues (https://stackoverflow.com/review/), but then the tooltip might be a bit hard to calculate!

10
  • yes. users with 100rep got access to review queue for documentation. and afair rest of review sections after they get 500rep
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:53
  • 5
    I guess this is a bug, it should take to the review queues list, instead of the suggested edits queue. The tooltip is right, but the link is not.
    – AJPerez
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:53
  • @AJPerez updated - wonder how they would calculate the tooltip though
    – CalvT
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:57
  • 6
    yeap, url is bug. fix in progress.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:59
  • @Paweł what do the numbers on the review notification indicate? Total of all queues? The edits queue? Or something else?
    – CalvT
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:08
  • 1
    @CalvT if it's anything like before, 2k-10k suggested edits, 10k- total review tasks.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 14:26
  • @Braiam I meant the little number indicators that overlay the icon - check other people's screenshots and you'll see what I mean
    – CalvT
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:06
  • Thats exactly what I was describing.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:10
  • @Braiam sorry yes get you now - 2k is also the rep you need to be able to approve edits so that threw me off! The numbers on the screenshots in this post vary from around 56 to 866 so no idea what it is!
    – CalvT
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:26
  • 1
    56 is the number of edits in the queue, 866 is the number of reviews in all queues sans the close queue. The later only appears to 10k+, the former to 2-10k.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:41
31

Stack Exchange icon design issue

Usually the Stack Exchange icon contains 4 blocks in it. Example in the previous top bar and MSE site.

4 blocks

But in the new top bar the Stack Exchange icon contains only 3 blocks in it.

3 blocks

For the uniformity the icon should be the same number of blocks in other place.

4
  • 6
    I suspect at that size the icon would become too noisy with more details and this simplification was on purpose.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 13:02
  • 28
    what @deceze said. plus we actually wanted this to be more like a "hamburger" icon (which usually has three bars) but we mixed it with SE glyph to give a tip what's behind that.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 13:26
  • 4
    Arul, Good catch. ;)
    – Shashanth
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:48
  • 3
    @Pawel It's not really a hamburger menu though. Hamburger menus 1. tend to be displayed as sidebar, 2. often an “off-canvas drawer” sidebar, and 3. almost always display “catch all links”— all the stuff that didn't deserve primary 1-click navigation. Making it look like a hamburger menu is somewhat confusing in this respect; I expect it to contain links to (in addition to SE Sites) Feed, Drafts, History, About, & Log Out— reflecting the well-designed hamburger menu in the official Stack Exchange iPad App. Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 18:49
27

There are some glaring problems with this design.

Also, the sole metric cited here, "users shown the new top nav clicked navigation links 143% more than those shown the current design" is a terrible metric. Why are we aiming for more clicks to do the same thing?

Where is the help??!?!?!?!?!

There is no access to the help center with the new design! What is this madness?? The same goes for the tour! oh, but it is in the set of links in the footer, you say? No. Not enough. How are new users expected to know any of the already semi ridiculous expectations of asking their first question without this content? They aren't, they won't, and it will negatively effect question quality and user experience. These two facets, question quality, and user experience, should be the bar you look at for improvement. Not #of clicks before / #of clicks after.

Why is review a link?

Seriously, in a set of modals, why is the review icon a link? That alone probably leads to an excessive amount of clicking around, especially considering that if a new review comes up, and you click to see what that alert means, it navigates you away from what you were doing. It should be moved elsewhere. In fact, it should be grouped with help and there should be a modal for that set of tooling - those aimed at improving question quality and user experience.

The top bar is now sticky. I get it, but why?

header { position: absolute; }

This is what I will personally be doing in a user script. If you wish to test this you can use $("header").css("position","absolute") in a browser console or by prepending javascript: to the jquery snippet and placing it in the url.

This is what my topbar looks like and how it interacts:

12
  • 1
    Help is still there for low rep users who don't have access to the review queue. For users who do, help is still a link in the footer. The review icon will likely get an upgrade in the next iteration to be a dropdown.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 1:56
  • 2
    We've interviewed a lot of users who had no idea what the items in the topbar were or that we had navigation at the top right-hand side of the page because they were used to landing on the page and scrolling to the answer. By this time everything is off screen. Clicks weren't the only thing that we measured, but they were an important metric for us, especially for unregistered or low-reputation users. We also tracked searches, because we want searching to increase or not decrease since this will likely result in less duplicate questions asked.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 2:00
  • 8
    "We've interviewed a lot of users who had no idea..." Oh, great. Tyranny of the casual user majority.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 3:28
  • 6
    @Kurtis: interesting! But I'm not a new user. To me the sticky bar is distracting and contains mostly irrelevant links for me. I never use the Jobs or Tags or Documentation links, and I'll happily use my Home button to go back to the top for the rest. When I am answering I look for the question to get details right, and notifications that distract me from answering are hindering at that point. Please separate the daily power user from the unregistered casual visitor!
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 8:29
  • 2
    @JoshCaswell We've interviewed a lot of new and veteran users, but this is also something that's been asked for on meta and lot of users within this post like. Because some power users don't like something doesn't automatically mean it is a poor design for all power users and we don't care about their needs. Saying things like "tyranny of the casual user majority" may be one of the reasons some people outside this community perceive it as unfriendly to new users.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 12:44
  • 9
    I didn't say "new user", I said "casual user". I don't know how else you could describe someone, new or veteran, that doesn't know that there are nav links in the header of literally every page on the site.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 12:52
  • 2
    And if those users are numerous or important enough that the design needs to be changed to accommodate them, then so be it, but that doesn't require me to be happy about a more obtrusive presentation of the same functionality.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 13:15
  • 2
    "[the sticky bar] is also something that's been asked for on meta"...and negatively scored every time that I've seen.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:26
  • @MartijnPieters - I so agree: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/343582/295783
    – mplungjan
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 13:55
  • 1
    @mplungjan: my concern has been addressed. I'm happy again.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 14:09
  • Let me just say that as a power user of SE, I had fixed the old bar to be sticky because I want quick access to everything from everywhere in a page.
    – Raphael
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 17:18
  • Review is now both a link and a drop-down. Consistency! meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252843/…
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 7, 2017 at 22:18
26

Keyboard shortcuts for the new icons are broken.

The following keyboard shortcuts no longer work:

  • T tabs...
  • I inbox
  • R recent achievements
  • Q mod messages

I use I and R all the time, and these not working may require me to opt out of the beta. I'll see how long I can tolerate this.

8
  • 10
    all the time ... just admit you're a bit obsessive about your gained achievements ... mr 500K + .... ;)
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:42
  • 2
    @rene: I use I all the time to be responsive to messages like yours. I use R to check if I need to give some attention to old posts (as long as I am not yet capped). Old posts sometimes need gardening..
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:44
  • this is definitely a bug. will fix it asap.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:45
  • @MartijnPieters I take your word for it ... ;)
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:46
  • This is fixed in the next build.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 12:25
  • And there was much rejoicing! Thanks, @Oded
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:58
  • I have never heard of the keyboard shortcuts.
    – matt
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:55
  • @matt: original blog post from 2012: stackoverflow.blog/2012/02/stack-exchange-keyboard-shortcuts. Announcement that the shortcuts are now part of SE proper from 2014: Announcement: Keyboard shortcuts are now integrated into the site. Enable them in your preferences.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 15:00
23

(now that people have the option to disable the fixed behaviour)

Make the top bar smaller.

It doesn't really bother me when I'm at the top of the page, but when I'm focusing on actual content, I like my vertical screen estate, as deceze puts it.

So at least when you scroll down the page, maybe in a responsive kind of way?

Here's a preview of what that could look like (I made it 30px here, the "BETA" font size had to be reduced a little).

smaller top bar

And a stylish style sheet to obtain that, in case you want to play with it (NB. this stays small when you're at the top of the page).

@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);

@-moz-document domain("stackoverflow.com") {
body.newheader {
/*	padding-top:60px; */
	padding-top:33px;
}

input[type="submit"],input[type="button"],button,.button,.btn,[class*="btn-"],.hero-box.double-panel .panel.white .btn {
/* 	padding:.61538462em 1em; */
	padding:5px 1em;
}
.f-input,textarea.f-input,input[type="text"].f-input,input[type="password"].f-input,input[type="number"].f-input,input[type="email"].f-input,input[type="url"].f-input,input[type="search"].f-input,input[type="tel"].f-input,input[type="datetime"].f-input {
/* 	padding:8px 16px; */
	padding:5px 16px;
}
.gravatar-wrapper-42,.gravatar-wrapper-42 img {
/* 	height:42px */
	height:30px
}
.so-header .-logo {
/* 	background-position:0 -500px */
	background-position:0 -400px;
	background-size: 151.2px 424px;
}
.so-header .-logo._glyph {
/* 	width:25px; */
/* 	height:30px; */
	width:20px;
	height:24px;
}
.so-header .navigation .-list {
/* 	height:57px */
	height:30px
}
.so-header .navigation .-link {
/* 	line-height:57px; */
	line-height:30px;
/* 	height:57px; */
	height:30px;
}
.so-header .navigation .beta-badge {
/* 	font-size:10px; */
	font-size:8px;
/* 	top:35px */
	top:19px;
}
.so-header .secondary-nav .-list {
/* 	height:57px; */
	height:30px;
}
.so-header .secondary-nav .-link {
/* 	height:57px; */
/* 	line-height:57px; */
	height:30px;
	line-height:30px;
}
.so-header .my-profile {
/* 	padding:16.5px 10px; */
	padding:3px 10px;
}
.so-header .searchbar input[type="text"].f-input {
/* 	height:36px; */
	height:28px;
}
.so-header .searchbar .btn {
/* 	height:36px; */
	height:28px;
}
.profile-picture-popup .avatar-change {
/* 	height:42px; */
	height:30px;
}
.profile-picture-popup .avatar-change img {
/* 	height:42px; */
/* 	width:42px; */
	height:30px;
	width:30px;
}
.profile-picture-popup .avatar-change .avatar-description {
/* 	line-height:42px; */
	line-height:30px;
}

}

Tot Zam similarly proposed a slightly less aggressive reduction of height and paddings.

5
  • 15
    Or…just don't make it sticky and then there is no problem.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:47
  • @CodyGray Why yes, it's an alternative to that. Preferably not sticky, that point's already been made. If it's really going to be sticky however, at least have it take less than 1cm of incompressible vertical screen space.
    – Cimbali
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:52
  • This is basically what I requested in my answer.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:02
  • 3
    @Cimbali It's just interesting how your duplicate request attracted more votes in less time. Maybe it's your dark themed browser in the screenshot :)
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 17:18
  • @Oded I suppose that's the link you meant to put there.
    – Cimbali
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 17:59
23
  • My first reaction to the site, about 5 seconds in, was

    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK
    IT MOVES
    THE HORROR

    because the super-mega-expando search box is annoying. Not as much as previous iterations, but annoying nonetheless. Don't animate what I'm already looking at. I click on the box, or type s, and start typing a search query. While I'm typing, the damn &()@#$&()^$&*(## thing moves. So I lose track of what I was looking at and need to spend a few seconds refocusing. I wanted to search something dammit! And there's an animation again if I move the focus out of the search box. WHY??????????

The good news is that this is the only major flaw! It's definitely not as bad as the previous top bar change. So thank you, I guess.

  • I really like that the boilerplate doesn't take much space. Not like the current design where if you have a 16/9 landscape monitor you'll probably end up with less than half a monitor's worth of content of the front page, between the OS artifacts, the browser artifacts, the top bar and the huge rectangle with the site logo.
  • Thank you for making the top bar usable without having an insanely wide browser window! The narrowness of the search box in its off state is unfortunate, but I think that's an acceptable compromise (as long as it expands without animating).
  • I'm ambivalent about the sticky top bar. I don't see it as useful, but it doesn't distract me much. It might be annoying to waste the space with browser windows that are not very tall though. Make the stickiness a configuration option. Stack Exchange's user interface doesn't have enough configuration options.
  • Put the site name in the top bar. For two reasons.

    • For people who don't have an account, the indication of what site this is is useful. Especially since this top bar looks quite a bit like any other trendy website's top bar these days.
    • For people who do have an account, the indication of which Stack Exchange site this is is useful. Sure, SO has a distinctive icon, but many beta sites don't, a few are even non-unique.
  • When the mouse hovers above the colored numbers on one of the top-right boxes (inbox, achievements, review), the number moves. WHY?????? I'm trying to read the number, don't move it! Just because you can make animations in a browser doesn't mean you should. Seriously, stop that, please. Don't move the numbers.
  • Where's the “about” link? Show an “about” or “help” or “tour” link to new users. When I go to some random website which is more than two pages slapped together, I want to know what this site is about, who runs it, etc. This is especially important for a site that users can interact with. Here, there are links for “about us”, “tour” and “help” but they're buried somewhere towards the bottom of the page — essentially impossible to find without searching.
    A good organization could be to show “tour” and “help” in the top bar for anonymous visitors and low-rep users. For veteran users, put those links in under the Stack Exchange slash hamburger menu at the top right.
  • There are four icons at the top right. Clicking the square bra opens a menu on the page. Clicking the trophy opens a menu on the page. Clicking the pen-and-paper switches to a different URL. Clicking the Stack Exchange hamburger opens a menu on the page. Make the review icon consistent: open a menu with links to the various review queues (plus /tools for 10kers).
  • “Unanswered” is gone from the toplevel menu. Ok, having it under “Questions” is enough. “Badges” is gone from the toplevel menu. Yay!
  • I see from a mod's screenshot that if you're a mod, the mod menu is inserted in the middle of the icon array, so some of the icons are moved. Put the icons in a consistent location, add the optional icons at the end (i.e. at the left, since the icon array is right-aligned).

While you're at it, could you please fix the regressions introduced by the previous toolbar redesign?

  • Make the inbox icon easier to access. It used to be in a corner, then it moved to some random middlish place, and now it's in a different middlish place. Put the inbox icon in a corner.
  • Replace the square bra icon by something recognizable such as an envelope.
  • Give me back a reliable count of votes I've cast today.
  • Remove the list of badges next to my avatar. This information is extremely minor and shouldn't waste space on every page. Put my username instead. Seeing my name is a very convenient way for me to see that I'm logged in on the site. Seeing a tiny icon doesn't have this effect.
  • Restore the feature that pressing Ctrl+Enter in the search box opens the search results in a new tab. This is a more recent regression, dating back to a jQuery update. This feature would make the sticky top bar a lot more useful: searching is the one thing I often want to do when I'm in the middle of writing an answer (to look for older posts to cite on a related topic) or when I've scrolled down to the bottom of a question (to look for a duplicate).
5
  • 1
    "Put the site name in the top bar." It's been stated that logged out users do see the full logo and not just the icon, similar to how Meta is set up. "Show an “about” or “help” or “tour” link to new users. " Likewise, the team said that users below a certain rep get the help center link.
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 22:29
  • "Where's the “about” link?" If you have more than 500 rep, it isn't shown as they need space for /review. See meta.stackoverflow.com/a/343167/792066
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 22:35
  • I don't get your annoyance about the numbers. Why would you want to read the number when you are putting your cursor on top of it? Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 23:40
  • 3
    @KodosJohnson I see that there's something interesting in this part of the screen, so I go to click on it. While I'm moving my mouse and I have my eyes on the goal, I read the actual number. And it moves! Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 23:58
  • that's very valuable feedback, thank you! let me quickly answer to some points you've made: 1. we keep site name for anonym users and for meta (both logged in&out). glyph is only on main SO for logged in. 2. help is visible for logged out and "low-rep" (internal naming) users. at some point we replace it with 'review' icon, but help is still accessible from footer. 3. rethinking review interaction (no dropdown etc.) is on our todo list. 4. nav for mods is also something we're working on. 5. we gonna slightly update topbar on other sites soon as well to be more in line with new header on SO.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 12:35
21

One thing that confused me a few times now was the counter for the review queues. It's now directly besides the inbox and achievement counters.

The inbox and achievement counters are about me, the user. The review queue (and also the moderator flag counter, which I can't see on SO) are about the site.

I found that confusing, though this might go away over time. I'd generally prefer to make those different types of counters distinct in some way, but I'm not sure if that is possible without disrupting the rest of the new design.

1
  • See Jon Ericson's answer which was posted after yours, apparently things and stuff will be done about the lack of distinction in that corner of the bar.
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 8:16
20

I was just looking at https://github.com/ and I think SE should take a few design ideas from their header. This example demonstrates how some of the complaints brought up in other posts can be addressed.

GitHub topbar

  1. Their header is not dark, yet still has enough contrast which separates the top-bar nicely from the rest of the page content.
  2. There is minimal whitespace and padding on the top and bottom of the navigation elements - enough for it to look good, yet not too much that it wastes excessive amount of screen space.
  3. The search bar is in the front of the top-bar and not floating randomly in the middle. The search bar can be placed in the beginning or end of the top-bar, yet it doesn't belong in the middle. The height is also shorter than GitHub icon, which makes it look better. The current SO search bar is for some reason taller than all the other navigation elements, making it slightly jarring.
  4. They just display their icon and not the GitHub company name, and no one has ever complained about that. I think once people get used to how the SO icon currently is on the main SO site, it will be fine. The StackOverflow words can probably be removed from meta.
  5. A large element that takes up a lot of space on the SO header is the reputation and badges count next to the avatar. I know it is a nice moral boost to always have your accomplishments visible, yet I'm really not sure this is necessary to always display. Removing this information would clear up some horizontal space in the top-bar, thus increasing usability. I personally would vote for usability over seeing my rep and badges. If too many users like this display and this isn't removed, another idea would be make the numbers two lines and move the rep number on top of the badge count, which would at least add a drop of horizontal space to the bar.
  6. Yes, there are few less tabs and icons on SO than GitHub, yet the GitHub bar still seems to be sooo much less crowded even after I added a few placeholder items.
11
  • 15
    7. Most importantly, it is not sticky!
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 10:42
  • 2
    4. we also display glyph only for logged in users on SO. we keep full logo for rest. 5. we can't simply get rid of badges and rep. it may not be important for you but it is important for lots of our users who care about tracking badges & rep becasue it's part of gamification. 6. i think actually github has less icons and tabs...
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 11:10
  • @Paweł 5. I know a lot of users like the rep and badges and that is why I also suggested stacking the numbers on 2 lines. 6. I said that GitHub has less tabs and icons, yet I as I mentioned, I tested by adding additional placeholder tabs and icons and it still seamed less crowded.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:46
  • 3
    @CodyGray I actually don't mind the sticky, so I didn't bring it up.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:47
  • 1
    Note that the Github header is only 1px shorter than SO's (59px vs 60px). It might be that the box-shadow makes it seem larger. Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:20
  • 1
    @MikeMcCaughan That's interesting because the overall appearance seems a lot smaller, or at least less invasive of screen space.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:23
  • Yeah, now that I look at it, it's probably the borders. Github has none, whereas SO has a thick top border and a thin bottom border, plus the shadow. Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:28
  • 1
    To put the SO search box next to the logo: .-logo,#search { order: -1; }
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 13:03
  • 10
    "Their header is not dark" This is... no longer true, for some reason. Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 19:19
  • Agree with all things said, that exactly describes my experience and concerns. I think it is worth making a new thread pushing these issues.
    – Mikhail V
    Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 23:22
  • 3
    @ETHproductions It's funny how GitHub changed their top-bar to black only 2 after I complimented that I liked the light-gray. I actually think the new black bar is too stark and contacted GitHub's support to let them know.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 0:23
18

This post is my initial feelings on the new bar. I'm going to use it for a few hours, based on Shog's advice, but I want to document my first impressions/issues with the new bar.

The new bar is thicker than the current black top bar, but the "Ask Question" button seems to start at the same location. This makes the page feel more "squished". This is a minor detail. Related to that "squished" feeling, is the lack of contrast between the navigation and the page content.

Squished Top Bar


I've navigated around the main and meta sites for a little while now and I can safely say that I am not a fan of the sticky navigation bar. It is distracting and contains links to things that I don't need immediate access to. I click on "Questions" 1-2 times a day. Usually, I spend my time watching specific tags, not watching the newest questions. I click on "Jobs" a handful of times a week. I don't use the documentation button on the navigation bar. Instead, I use the documentation link inside of the ways I am watching. This gets me directly where I want to be, instead of requiring me to navigation the documentation main page.

Documentation I use

I can't remember the last time I needed the "users" or "tags" links. The search on Stack Overflow leaves a lot to be desired, so most of my searching occurs through Google.

The other indicators are a great way to interrupt what I'm doing. With the black navigation bar, I can answer a question, work on reviews, etc. with the bar out of sight. If I get a notification, I don't see it immediately. Now, as soon as I get a notice, I am distracted by the new indicator.

Great...now what?


Moving the mouse down into the site selector is tedious. It's already been mentioned, but I think it's important to mention again. The easiest path to take once the menu is open is a straight line, not down then left. Unfortunately, the straight line causes the box to close (because I hit the review queue "menu"). Worse, it doesn't close completely, so in my confusion to reopen it, if I mouse over any of the other menus, there are multiple popup menus.


I haven't used the new bar on my phone or tablet yet. I will document those when I do.


Summary of first impressions: I am trying to find things I like, but that stickiness is really making me hate it. I can get used to the new icons and the links being moved around, but I don't think the navigation bar being stuck there constantly is actually helping me navigate around the site.

I don't use any of those links consistently enough to need immediate access. The indicators on the right are more of a distraction. That makes it feel like wasted space to me.

1
  • 1
    On top of the documentation link in the tag, there's also a jobs link in the info bar if you're using the new tabs. So really neither of those links are necessary outside of the front page.
    – davidism
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:11
17

(now that people have the option to disable the fixed behaviour)

Decrease height and padding

There still seems to be a bit of extra whitespace surrounding all the navigation elements.

Currently the average height is 57px and the padding is 16.5px.

height:57px;

.so-header .my-profile {
    padding:16.5px 10px;
}

enter image description here

If you decrease the height and padding even just slightly, it still looks okay and it wastes less screen space.

height:40px;

.so-header .my-profile {
    padding:13px 10px;
}

enter image description here

This should make users concerned about the nav eating up their screen happier.

3
  • @Oded I don't think making it "unsticky" solves this request. I actually like the sticky bar, I just think top-bar is unnecessarily tall. I don't mind the top-bar being sticky and taking up some space since I think it has a purpose, yet I still don't want unnecessary space used.
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 17:13
  • 1
    I understand your point of view. We will look at reducing the height, but not for launch. I don't believe the designers will reduce it to the extent you have shown. Perhaps a user stylesheet will be best for you right now.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 17:15
  • @Oded I'm okay waiting for this until after launch, as long I know it is being considered. Should this be changed to reviewed instead of declined then?
    – Tot Zam
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 17:21
16

As numerous others have pointed out, "Review Queues" notification is extremely annoying.

Also, it makes no sense at all. Please see the below picture:

it makes no sense at all

I have just finished my 20 suggested edits, as you can tell from the graying out of "Suggested Edits" section. Still, the notification shows "65 unread", which must be the number of suggested edits. I can't even begin to describe how wrong this is:

  1. It's annoying.
  2. I don't wont it to show "unread"s if I cannot review any suggested edits.
  3. Why is other categories ignored? Don't you want my involvement in other categories?
  4. It's annoying.

: Please make it possible for the users to subscribe to the review queues they like. For example, I personally don't like to Triage.

And then, make the indicator show the number of review queues that has items, AND that user has subscribed, AND the ones that user has not exhausted the daily limit.

I can promise you that I will be more engaged in the review process if Stack Overflow does this.

6
  • This particular issue is being discussed. We're working through solutions and will address this in the near future.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 14:53
  • This is how the review queue notification always worked - it is the same way as the black top bar. I am finding it a bit difficult to parse what exact issue you are having here - can you explain in detail?
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 15:06
  • @Oded: It shows the number of available suggested edits, even when I have completed my quota of 20 per day. That's one of my issues. The second one is that the notification being too prominent, but that has been pointer out by others. Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 16:20
  • Yes, as the old one has. This is not a change in behaviour.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 16:21
  • 1
    The old one didn't evoke the same "notification" feeling though. Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 18:20
  • 1
    Fixed-ish: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252843/…
    – Shog9
    Commented Apr 7, 2017 at 22:16
15

: We're adding a setting to disable fixed/sticky navigation

I'm really not a fan of sticky sections on desktop browsers. Could we get an option to unpin it so that it doesn't stay visible when we scroll down the page?

13

The header where review buttons are in review tasks used to be sticky too but now they are going under the nav bar

enter image description here

I'm sure it is not just disappearing bacause I can see it if the header is higher

enter image description here

It clearly needs a margin-top as high as the nav bar is

3
13

I really love that the Ask question button is gone when you're on the Home tab:

no questions asked

and you only get that option if you managed to navigate to another tab. That should reduce the influx of low quality stuff dramatically.

question can be asked

So basically the new top bar is both improved navigation AND a quality project.

Well done!

18
  • 2
    FWIW, I'm seeing that button everywhere. Maybe that's just a deterrent for low-rep users? :P
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:48
  • @deceze are you also using the new nav?
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:50
  • 1
    @rene I'm also seeing it everywhere - and using the new nav (and I've less rep that you so @ deceze's comment isn't right)
    – CalvT
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:50
  • OK, it must be due to my low-rep then. Point taken.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:51
  • 1
    @rene I've waaaaay less rep than you
    – CalvT
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:52
  • I'm on Chrome / Win 10, and just disabled all my plugins: I can still repro.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 10:53
  • that's weird. we will take a look if we can reproduce it. basically 'Ask question' button was moved to top section of sidebar. it's not on every page but only on some of them. however it supposed to be on home.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 11:07
  • 3
    Hilarious. Cheering for a change... only to learn it wasn't intended :).
    – Tunaki
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 12:59
  • @Paweł repro-ed at my end: i.sstatic.net/6vihw.png using Chromium 55.0.2883.75 (Developer Build) built on Debian stretch/sid, running on Debian 9.0 (64-bit)
    – hjpotter92
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 14:38
  • @rene - got any ad blockers running? User stylesheets/scripts?
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:11
  • @Oded nope, sorry. I disabled all those when I repro-ed. And I don't have ad-blockers installed at all. On this laptop that is. I can try to repro when I'm at home tonight at a different box.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:13
  • Is the button there in the source of the page?
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:14
  • @Oded nope, no evidence of it being there. I did find it for the working tabs, obviously
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:16
  • @Oded here is a screenshot with my two DOM's, at the top with a question button, at the bottom without i.sstatic.net/yXYID.png
    – rene
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:23
  • 2
    OK, only on the homepage and when using the "expanded" view of the new nav. Fixed in the next build...
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:52
13


I like the new header and design, though I did find a bug with the modal windows when going through the close queue.

At a certain time I could drag the model window in such a way that I couldn't drag it back or reach the close button.

This is not a critical bug in my opinion, merely annoying if one wants to review the text still and then drag the modal window back in place, or to change your mind on the close reason

I took a small screen shot of the problem enter image description here

As DavidG remarked, the problem is more of an issue for smaller resolutions. As he pointed out, he cannot even see the top bar, and he can hardly click the duplicate reason. In the comments, we decided to add the screen shot of his problem as these 2 issues are related

Small resolution no top bar and duplicate of is hardly reachable

Actually I think this is more of an issue that you think. I just happen to be using a laptop with a small screen right now (1366x768) and with a bookmark bar in Chrome the top of the modal is not visible. If I make the vertical size a bit smaller, the top of the modal is completely inaccessible.

As Pawel remarked this has not to do with the new navigation, I switched back to the old navigation and there the behavior is different.

For example, the modal popup actually goes above the top bar, as you can see here

enter image description here

So there is never the possibility that the top of the modal window would be inaccessible with the old top bar, but with the new top bar both DavidG & me have experienced this problem

10
  • Actually I think this is more of an issue that you think. I just happen to be using a laptop with a small screen right now (1366x768) and with a bookmark bar in Chrome the top of the modal is not visible. If I make the vertical size a bit smaller, the top of the modal is completely inaccessable.
    – DavidG
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 0:02
  • @DavidG Luckily you can close the modal window by clicking next to the modal window, that's why I didn't think it such a big problem. It is of course annoying that you cannot move the modal or access the title bar
    – Icepickle
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 9:27
  • 2
    The issue isn't with closing it, it's being able to select 'duplicate' as a close reason.
    – DavidG
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 9:56
  • @DavidG Should I edit the answer to include your statement as a bug, or would you like to add your concerns by editing it?
    – Icepickle
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 11:16
  • Sure if you like - I don't mind either way. As long as the devs get the feedback, that's all that really matters.
    – DavidG
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 19:08
  • 1
    @DavidG I added your issue to the post, feel free to correct anything if you want ;)
    – Icepickle
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 21:29
  • this mod popup definitely needs some work but i don't think it's related to new header. you can dismiss it by clicking anywhere else outside the popup. plus, there will be the same issue if you move it outside the viewport. so for now this is [status-deferred] (at least if we talk about new header).
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 16:28
  • 2
    @Paweł I would disagree, I reverted to the previous top bar, and there I can never come into the situation that the top of the modal window is hidden behind the top bar. I have added an extra screen shot demonstrating the more correct behavior with the old top bar
    – Icepickle
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 18:55
  • I'm sorry, I initially misunderstood this issue and was thinking about something else apparently :(. Fix is waiting in repo for next build.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 15, 2017 at 17:00
  • Thanks @Pawel I guess my explanation was not clear enough
    – Icepickle
    Commented Feb 16, 2017 at 20:17
11

I thought I was going nuts but I've just confirmed that the colour of the reputation notification is blue if it's been added by an Ajax call (i.e. sat on the page and someone votes on a post of mine):

enter image description here

However, it is green (the correct colour in my opinion!) when the page is refreshed:

enter image description here

It looks like the span gets a _positive class on refresh that is missing in the Ajax update.

1
  • 2
    This bug is known and will be fixed before launch. Thanks.
    – Kurtis Beavers Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 2:01
11

“Full Page” Stack Snippets can’t be closed

When you click “Full Page” below, try to close it.

$(window).one('blur', function() {
  alert('You can’t close me!');
})
<script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/2.1.1/jquery.min.js"></script>
Click “Full Page” <span style="float: right">^^^^^^^^</span>

5
  • 1
    reproduced. looking into it right now.
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 15:21
  • 1
    fix is waiting in repo for build. thanks for reporting that!
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 7, 2017 at 16:35
  • @Paweł It’s not fixed. There’s no button to exit full screen..
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:03
  • Looks like a z-index problem. The so-header has a z-index of 1030; the popin has 999. Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:26
  • oh you're right. i missed that .popin thing. fix incoming..
    – Paweł Staff
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 18:52
9

One of the things I appreciate about the existing top bar is not having to click to switch between the site switcher, the inbox, and the achievements dropdown once one of them has been opened.

The arrangement of the icons is different in the new version, but it'd still be nice to at least be able to go between the inbox and achievements without an extra click. Ideally, being able to switch between all dropdowns even after mousing over the "review" icon so long as the cursor doesn't leave the topbar would be good too.

(I made a noble effort to try recording a gif to show what I mean, but failed. To see the behaviour I'm talking about, just compare the existing topbar on, say, MSE with the new one here.)

10
  • 2
    I think it actually did work like this yesterday. The problem is, the sites (formerly Gen-u-wine™) button is now really small, and so most of the sites menu expands under the other buttons... So when I'd try to move the mouse from the button to the sites list, I'd end up opening the mod inbox instead. Edit: report is here, marked "planned" - but looks like balpha already made a rough fix for it, hence the behavior you observe.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 2:32
  • What he ^^^ said. Perhaps we could figure out a better fix going forward.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 8, 2017 at 14:30
  • I have a fix, if interested. This script will use the SE debouncer to keep the menus open as long as you are focused on them and long enough so that if you move over to another it will open that one in place. The code essentially came from SE a long time ago and I slightly modified it and have kept it around. I run extensive userscripts. The debouncer SE wrote is actually really nice (love it) so it handles a lot of edge cases. It should also work with touch (haven't tested). Here is the script 4 free: gist.github.com/travisjj/3c50be52ce4da566867c624e8777d0a8
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 20:41
  • cc @Oded See TravisJ's comment above :)
    – Adam Lear StaffMod
    Commented Feb 9, 2017 at 21:24
  • I spoke to the team and the consensus is that we will keep the current behaviour as is - click to open a new menu. I am told this is the more standard / common behaviour seen across the web.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 10, 2017 at 15:54
  • 1
    @Oded Why don't they just expand on hover? Why else is a cursor there?
    – philipxy
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 3:22
  • @phi - the cursor is there to show they are clickable.
    – Oded StaffMod
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 10:50
  • @TravisJ Could you make into a userscript?
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 18:47
  • @JF - Yes, I already have it in place. Would you like me to make a free chrome extension in the store for that snippet?
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 19:42
  • @TravisJ I’d just like it as a userscript (I don’t use Chrome) :)
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 10:28
8

I sort of like the new design now it has more colours BUT:

or

I have ZERO (0) need to look at or ever click the static links to

  • Questions - I have them on the page and I lose my keywords if I click on the Questions link. I have a bookmark with unanswered tagged JavaScript or jQuery that I use exclusively
  • Jobs - I have a job
  • Documentation BETA - I am answering questions now - I do not need the majority of the nav bar taken up by a link to somewhere else
  • Tags - SO has all the tags I need in the searchbox on the right
  • Users - I do not ever look for users

What I DO want to see while I am scrolling are new achievements or new comments to questions. They are FAR on the right, on the periphery of my glance. I do not understand the UX need for the links to places I never go to take precedence to information I need all the time.

The contents of the red box below can be removed or moved to the far right for all I care. And the contents in the gren box put back in my line of sight

enter image description here

10
  • There are apparently hordes of people who fail to find or use the existing nav links at the top of the page. (!) Getting these links more into their faces seems to be a top goal with this redesign.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 12, 2017 at 16:07
  • I am certainly not one of them @JoshCaswell - quite the opposite.
    – mplungjan
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 13:53
  • Well, same here. Of the five links, I use two, and even those very infrequently.
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 13:59
  • What if you didn't have a job? It'd be good to preferentially hide undesired links. Also, I consider it bad practice, and usability, to have icons with no text (I don't count title text). Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 14:04
  • 2
    The job offers lived on the right where I could ignore them.
    – mplungjan
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 14:22
  • adblock easily gets rid of all those tabs. Unfortunately that won't move the icons around.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 21:23
  • How clever are you @KevinB ! Great suggestion
    – mplungjan
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 21:23
  • Now i'm trying to find a gist or snippet that will give me back the larger logo that you get while you're not logged in that i can apply with robogist. Guess all it really needs is _glyph removed
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 21:25
  • Adblock: stackoverflow.com##.-main
    – mplungjan
    Commented Feb 16, 2017 at 10:55

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