118

Remember this:

If the question is more than 365 days old, and ...

  • has a score of 0, or a score of 1 in case of deleted owner
  • has no answers
  • is not locked
  • has view count <= the age of the question in days times 1.5
  • has 1 or 0 comments

... it will be automatically deleted. These are "abandoned" questions (RemoveAbandonedQuestions)

How about this:

enter link description here

I really don't know why it was introduced in the first place, but I know that it can produce the situation Cueball is experiencing. I would say that the purpose of the roomba is to precisely prevent those situations. And given that the good™ askers tend to read our fine help page and to research before asking, when they find these questions they can refrain from asking, when in their cases the actually most probable way to get the question answered is to rehash the question (since the answerers tend to prefer answering newer questions).

Basically, the "has 1 or 0 comments" doesn't make any sense to prevent post deletion. SO users have mostly forgotten these posts and are unlikely to come back to answer them. There are at least 400 thousand questions (there's a most detailed breakdown in this answer) that fulfill these criteria but are not deleted. This is a continuation of What should the system be deleting automatically that it already isn't? and a good start to chipping away the overly conservative restrictions.

53
  • 45
    In case the comments should still matter, how about replacing "has 1 or 0 comments" by "the newest comment is older than x months" or similar?
    – honk
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 14:46
  • 24
    @honk comments that "matter" should result in edition of the post. If that wasn't done in a timely manner (remember this, after all the post was alive for a whole year) I doubt it ever would.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 14:47
  • 58
    It doesn't make sense to me that comments can keep a post from being deleted. Every request to do more with comments is always met with, "comments are meant to be second class citizens" so why do they have so much power in this regard?
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:06
  • 2
    Hasn't it always been the view that comments are temporary anyway? They should have no bearing on the existence or value of a question. If the comment(s) is relevant then it should have been made an answer. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:17
  • 5
    400 thousand questions sure is a lot. Given the state of the CV review queue, there's no way we'd ever close most of them to bump the roomba into the more aggressive mode. Especially when we're encouraged to focus on current rather than old posts.
    – davidism
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:19
  • 3
    I can't make sense of this question. If it has 0 or 1 comments then it doesn't have enough comments to matter and doesn't prevent deletion. Well, maybe it is just me. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:43
  • 26
    @HansPassant The request here is to no longer prevent deletion regardless of the number of comments.
    – user247702
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:47
  • 3
    @FranckDernoncourt, Most likely this would only effect SO in any meaningful way. At most I could see it being extended to the other 2 of the big three SU and SF. I'm all for this, burn them burn them with fire.
    – Ryan
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 17:35
  • 13
    Didn't even know that this feature existed. I don't really understand the desire to delete questions who don't hurt anyone. I guess I should more often upvote if score is zero and quality warrants it just to preserve. And it seems a bit unfair for less popular tags where it's comparatively more difficult to get the necessary views and answers. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:39
  • 7
    @Trilarion if it's so unpopular that you have to wait a year for either an answer or an upvote from someone that found the question interesting.... Maybe you aren't asking to the right people.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:48
  • 2
    I guess I should more often upvote if score is zero and quality warrants it just to preserve. @Trilarion Why aren't you up voting them now if they're good quality questions?
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 20:44
  • 6
    @BSMP That argument (about good askers being scared off of re-asking) ought to be better fleshed out by the OP or whoever avows it. It doesn't really make sense to me. If the user is experienced on SO, they know that that's not a dupe in the sense used on this site and so shouldn't be scared off; and if the user is new, they probably don't even know to be afraid of posting a dupe.
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 21:16
  • 5
    Let's also remember that just because people don't follow the guidelines doesn't necessarily mean their content is unhelpful. Answers can often be found in comments, even though they shouldn't be there. We shouldn't assume the entirety of SO conforms to strict standards, because it doesn't, and never has. Cleanup should mean organizing useful content and deleting useless content, not deleting indiscriminately. Perhaps a more important question is, what harm is this content doing if it doesn't get deleted?
    – Zenexer
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:26
  • 3
    @Braiam As I've repeatedly said now in these comments: questions without answers but with valuable comments might get deleted. That is what harm could be done. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 14:00
  • 9
    @Trilarion reason to delete these was explained in the referred MSE post: "Unanswered questions are a dead-end in search...: they're worth keeping around for a while on the chance that someone will find and answer them, but beyond a certain point if no one is expressing any interest in them they're just noise."
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:06

13 Answers 13

75

I really don't know why it was introduced in the first place, but I know that it can produce the situation Cueball is experiencing. I would say that the purpose of the roomba is to precisely prevent those situations. And given that the good™ askers tend to read our fine help page and to research before asking, when they find these questions they can refrain from asking, when in their cases the actually most probable way to get the question answered is to rehash the question (since the answerers tend to prefer answering newer questions).

I have very mixed feelings about this. Just because a question has no answers and a low (but non-negative score) doesn't mean it's not helpful. The Cueball situation is very frustrating, but at least there's some indication that the problem actually exists. The lack of votes doesn't necessarily point to a bad question, and in fact it might include lots of past research, debugging attempts, etc., that can be helpful. Those shouldn't be thrown away just because a question is in a tag with low views, or isn't relevant to lots of users.

None of this really provides a solid answer, but I think we should be careful about what gets automatically deleted. Franck Dernoncourt's answer, which has lots of downvotes at the moment, suggests disabling the Roomba completely, or enabling it only for downvoted questions. I don't agree with disabling it completely, and I'm not sure about aiming it only at downvoted questions, but I'm definitely sympathetic to some of the concerns. I've got questions that have relatively modest view counts, no comments (other than from myself), and low (but not 0–1) vote counts, e.g., Spark ML indexer cannot resolve DataFrame column name with dots? That's not a candidate for the Roomba at the moment, but it's not all that far off. If that were a less visited tag, it would be easy for that to be a 0–1 score question, and would certainly have fewer views. Should something like that really be auto-removed? Consider it this way, even if someone seeing it has a Cueball experience, would they really be better off if they didn't have access to it?

14
  • 9
    Seems to me that Cueball just didn't have the Ask Question button available yet. No need to be lonely anymore. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 17:55
  • 1
    @HansPassant Actually (and I realize this would probably be infeasible) a kind of close voting that would merge another question might help here. At the moment, we can't vote to close as a duplicate of a question without an answer (unless it's by the same user). Being able to say "these questions are about the same thing" and having a way to merge might help in the case of good questions (which aren't supposed to be roomba targets anyhow). Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 17:57
  • "lots of past research, debugging attempts, etc., that can be helpful." Dunno you, but those questions end up upvoted anyways. There are at least 200k questions without answers, about half of the other kind.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:06
  • The question cited is not evidence against this proposal, and everything else seems to be an expansion of that original premise. I disagree with the outlook written here.
    – Travis J
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:16
  • 7
    My guess is that the existence of comments is a hint that there is actual activity on this question which is a hint that it is of actual interest which is a reason to keep it just in case. I mean that nowadays server space is not so expensive, so why not. Zero score is not negative score. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:34
  • 12
    @Braiam Those questions end up upvoted if they're in a tag with high enough activity. The number of eyes on questions in low-activity tags can be very small. I became particularly aware of that phenomenon when the gold-badge dupe-hammers were introduced: some tags that most of the top users won't be able to get gold-badges for quite a while, even though they've answered far more than the necessary number of questions (and had positive upvotes on them, just not enough in total to get the badge). Lots of good questions can sit at 0 or 1 for quite a while. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:50
  • 1
    @Trilarion Actual activity on which question? The one that I linked to is a question that I posted and I left the comments, too. No one else has commented on it. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:51
  • 11
    @Trilarion I'd be particularly concerned about the effect of close-vote comments (e.g, "I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because…") on the Roomba. They're not a sign of activity; they're a sign that the question may have never been appropriate for the site in the first place.
    – user149341
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:17
  • 1
    Well my answer got deleted. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:46
  • 2
    @duskwuff I'm more concerned about all the other comments. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:52
  • 9
    The lack of votes doesn't necessarily point to a bad question, and in fact it might include lots of past research, debugging attempts, etc., that can be helpful. Maybe, but the number of comments on the question isn't a good indicator that the question is helpful.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 21:01
  • 10
    The number of comments on a unanswered question could just as well be an indicator that the question is bad, that is it required a ton of comments for (possible) clarification, and everyone gave up before it could reach a point that it was answerable. Based on everyday experience I'm inclined to think this is the more common situation.
    – davidism
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 2:33
  • @davidism at that point you wonder why was this taken into account in first place?
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:50
  • 4
    You seems to advocate that old questions aren't bad... well, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that the presence of comments shouldn't prevent them from being deleted, and they are the minority
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:17
28

Prior to February 2013 questions without answers were more useful than now. Back then these could serve as duplicate targets.

From this perspective it made solid sense to be careful about deleting old unanswered questions because these could make duplicate targets for newer ones.

It made sense to keep most if not all old open questions for "just in case" and in historical context that requirement for minimal amount of comments looks more like sanity check to ensure that question is not totally useless.


Nowadays things are very different - practically opposite.

If someone asks a duplicate, presence of old unanswered question doesn't help anymore because there is no way to dupe-close. As opposed to how it was until 2013 what we get now is a bunch of disconnected unanswered duplicates and no sensible / scalable way to manage these.

If the reasoning for that 2-comment criteria to protect from deletion is indeed as I described above then it's about time for it to go away. It probably should go away over three years ago.

23

I agree with this proposal.

Comments do not add to the quality of content, and anything that is raised in comments should be properly edited into posts.

Comments are not meant to hold context or even to have such long lifespans.

If users wish for their comments to remain they should instead form full answers out of them, and if there was not a full answer possible then more than likely the question itself had issues. Clarification is important as well, but in the case where the question had quality content and clarification was required then upvotes should also be present, as can clearly be seen in the example shown by @Joshua Taylor here Spark ML indexer cannot resolve DataFrame column name with dots? (it has no answers but currently sits at +7).

By contrast, the example that this would be set out to target would be a post which is over a year old, with no votes, no answers, ~400 views, and 2 comments (which prevents deletion). In my opinion, the second comment is not significant enough to prevent the rest of the factors from still signaling deletion here.

6
  • 3
    The current rule discourages commenting on posts to help the OP ask a better question (especially where this question could be edited by the asker in to a reasonable question).
    – dave
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 11:22
  • 3
    Comments are not meant to hold context or even to have such long lifespans. This attitude toward comments is wrong. It is the single biggest problem with the site as is.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 16:22
  • 8
    @zwol - Comments are not present in site search. They are not present in google searching. There is no opportunity for the community to vote on the technical accuracy of comments. They are intended for clarification, not for actual content. You would be best served writing an answer to this question explaining your position than writing a single line quip in a comment.
    – Travis J
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 18:59
  • He did Travis, here meta.stackoverflow.com/a/333667/792066
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 19:43
  • @Braiam - That is an answer, but it doesn't explain his position with regards to comment lifespans being the single biggest problem with Stack Overflow in it. Perhaps he should start his own discussion addressing how that attitude is problematic.
    – Travis J
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 19:49
  • 1
    @TravisJ All of the problems you cite are bugs that should be fixed. I do not have the time or the patience to start another thread.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 0:09
20

For what it's worth, you can use this SEDE query that I just wrote to find questions that you've commented on and that would become eligible for deletion if this proposal was implemented. Just enter your numeric SO user ID (which you can find e.g. in your user profile page URL) and press "Run Query".

If you do find some questions using that query that you think should not be deleted, consider turning your comments into a proper answer, and/or upvoting the question. Even if this proposal gets declined, that is still a good habit to get into.

Yes, I know this is technically not an answer. That said, the rules are a bit looser here on meta, and it is a kind of a statement about the proposal, even if I'm leaving any specific conclusions for each reader to draw for themselves. Also, I didn't want to bury this in the huge pile of comments that this proposal has already attracted.

4
  • 28 entries for me, nothing useful. Mostly comments on tangential improvements to the code in question, related entries and meta comments (=about handling the post rather than the matter in it). Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 2:24
  • There are, admittedly, a few that suggest general ways to troubleshoot the problem (mostly to see the logs or use some sort of debugging technique). This, however, signifies the cases where the OP didn't use it themselves in the first place and provide the results that are necessary for the question to be answerable. Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 2:31
  • I have also seen cases where comments provide other kinds of general advice how to go about the problem that is not specific or complete enough to be an answer by SO standards (and did such comments myself). These do appear to be legitimately useful info. And are linked to the problem that asking for and giving advice is prohibited, so if we're going hardline on that, they are not an obstacle. Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 2:51
  • 3
    You could also use this query to clean up some of your old comments so the question can get roomba'd with the current rules.
    – LisaMM
    Commented Apr 12, 2017 at 8:44
14

I really love this idea, and I have the numbers to prove it would be effective. At the bare minimum, I wanted to make sure that the deletion scale would be about right, since that number sounds big, but we have to remember that we're talking about questions which would normally be Roomba'd, had comments not existed at all.

Let's take a period from 90 days ago as of this post as to not introduce a sampling bias due to SEDE's cutoffs, and run it through the rule chain. This query picks up questions which would be eligible, sans deleted ones (since their work is done). It looks like, according to the rough estimate provided by the OP, about 413,000 questions could be deleted using this new rule.

There is strong correlation to suggest that, the more comments a question accrues, the less likely it would be impacted at all. If a question has 23 or more comments, we would only be deleting 50 or less questions per comment bracket above 23. This might be a signal that others have alluded to for those questions to get a once-over and see what's going on with them, since they may hold some value, or may use a Community Wiki to move an answer from the depths of their comments to an actual answer.

Out of all of those questions, besides the most common thing which is to "create the post", the most common thing to happen to these posts is for them to be closed, of which about 19,000 are, or a curiously low 4%. Some other interesting things of note is that a handful of them are protected as well, indicating that there was some value to these for some reason in the past.

For the curious, especially those wanting to know how many duplicate questions would be impacted, provided that these questions aren't linked as duplicates of another, we could stand to lose something on the order of 18,800 questions closed as a duplicate, or something like 96% of the total closed questions already present.

Once more, for the curious: the impact of deletions year over year would be incredible; bear in mind that these values are additive (meaning they take into account last year's values), but between 2011 and 2012, we had a jump of over 60,000 questions that would've become eligible based on removing the comment rule.

Again, I hope someone makes this happen. That's 413,000 less questions taking up space, and less reasons to have people having to manually delete these questions on their own.

6
  • 2
    I like the idea of deleting them but the "space" aspect is a non-op. They take up less visible space for most everyone but SO still keeps the post so we really do not save any server space. On the plus side though and script that ignores deleted post would speed up. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 12:00
  • 3
    I added more numbers for you Time for roomba to ignore comments
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:08
  • 2
    Your numbers only prove that it will delete a lot of questions, not that that would be a good idea. The query about the correlation that supposedly suggests questions with many comments wouldn't be impacted is hard to interpret without knowing how man questions with 23 or more comments are there in general. Also I don't see how you interpret the next query to mean that "delete" is the most common action, the query results don't look like it. But delete events are missing if the post didn't get undeleted later, so not sure how helpful that is.
    – sth
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:48
  • @Braiam: You inspired me to author another query on this. May need to finish it off and do a total count of all questions period in that tag just for finesse, but it would still give us an idea of impact.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 22:56
  • I know something for sure, it would obliterate some tags data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/532332/…
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 23:37
  • 7
    @NathanOliver: It's not necessarily about server space. It's the fact that these questions are part of the ever increasing noise that we have to filter through constantly in order to find some decent signal.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 17:32
13

If comments are factored in by the Roomba, it needs, at the very least, to only consider recent comments, or perhaps only comments that were posted after the first week of the question's lifetime.

Comments on a question are not always a sign of activity or quality. In fact, comments posted on a newly posted questions are frequently indicators of low quality:

  • Some comments are requests for clarification. If the author never followed up on the request, the question probably lacks critical information, and can never be answered.

  • Some comments point out trivial errors or typos. A lack of response may indicate that the comment was correct, and that the question was too trivial for anyone to bother answering.

  • Some comments are posted automatically as part of a custom close-vote: "I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because $X". Even if the question wasn't closed, it may still be very low quality.

  • Some comments are an OP stating that the question is no longer relevant to them, or that they discovered a solution outside the scope of the question. These merely add to the problem described in the XKCD comic above.

8
  • Do you mean that comments posted after the first week signal that a question is worth saving or less likely to deserve tossing? I don't even know what sort of profile such comments have... "me too"s?
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 20:56
  • If comments aren't good indicators of high quality, they probably also aren't indicators of low quality. Questions with zero score with or without comments are probably quite okay/not okay. That is the question. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 22:02
  • @Trilarion that's not the question. That's another issue not in consideration. If you want to change that then create another meta discussion about that. My FR is "keeping question just because 2 comments doesn't do any good, and can potentially do bad".
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 1:27
  • @Braiam For me it is the question because it influences how I should vote here. Question with zero score should be kept. Whichever rule does that fully or partially is good. Whichever rule doesn't do that is bad. I admit, it's a bit strategic but instead of focusing on the number of comments we could as well focus on the score or something combined. As I see it we want at least partially keep zero scored questions and we should find a way to continue doing that. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 6:47
  • 7
    @Trilarion: It's not just zero-score questions. It's zero-score questions which have in a year, not accrued anything more than 548 views overall.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 7:09
  • @Makoto The number of views depend on the popularity of the tag. I just checked my questions. 60% of them have been viewed less than 600 times each. We could make a test. We just look into some (a thousand) old questions without looking at score or number of views or number of comments and we decide if we would like to keep them (based on the content of the question alone). Then we look if there is a correlation to score or number of views or number of comments. Then we place the threshold optimally in terms of false positives/negatives. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 8:26
  • @Trilarion I made the mistake of pinging you in the question, but there's data that proves that the most popular tags make up a bunch of these questions
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:23
  • @Frank re "Do you mean that comments posted after the first week signal that a question is worth saving or less likely to deserve tossing?" - I'm putting words in his mouth, but I read his answer as saying "comments within the first week" should be ignored, but if someone bothers commenting after that time frame, there might be something valuable occurring, so automatically deleting becomes more dubious. Its a hypothesis that makes sense to me, and probably would "save" only a handful of questions; so is worth considering. Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 9:49
13

Check https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/296609/792066 for a break down of what is currently being deleted and why. But, there are more numbers... for a perspective:

  • There are >9.7 million questions that are at least 1 year old, of which
    • by score:
    • by answers:
      • 839k have no answers (8%)
      • 8.9 mill have at least 1 answer (91%)
    • by both answer and score:
      • 4.5 mill have an answer and positive score (46 %)
      • 3.7 mill have an answer and 0 score (38%)
      • 525k have an answer and negative score (5%)
      • 365k have no answer and positive score (3%)
      • 473k have no answer and 0 score (4.87%)
      • 371 have no answer and negative score (these are mostly locked)

Basically, there are more questions older than a year that have either an upvote or an answer than questions with no votes and answers.

Another is that questions without answers or votes are because the tag is not popular... I will leave the data talk:

+-------------------------+-------+
|         TagName         | Posts |
+=========================+=======+
| javascript              | 44530 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android                 | 42023 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| java                    | 40846 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| php                     | 39825 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| c#                      | 35189 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jquery                  | 32716 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| html                    | 19369 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ios                     | 18322 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mysql                   | 16350 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| python                  | 15230 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp.net                 | 13523 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| c++                     | 13381 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| css                     | 13279 |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sql                     | 9791  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| objective-c             | 9313  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ruby-on-rails           | 8691  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ajax                    | 8486  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| .net                    | 6941  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| angularjs               | 6868  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| json                    | 6635  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| iphone                  | 5970  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| vb.net                  | 5901  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| xml                     | 5831  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| wordpress               | 5718  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sql-server              | 5441  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp.net-mvc             | 5277  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| eclipse                 | 5257  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| wpf                     | 4972  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| r                       | 4901  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| node.js                 | 4800  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| c                       | 4745  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| facebook                | 4609  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ruby                    | 4599  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| database                | 4565  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| linux                   | 4557  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| excel                   | 4493  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| django                  | 4491  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| spring                  | 4343  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| windows                 | 4300  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| html5                   | 4127  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| xcode                   | 4115  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| image                   | 3609  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| arrays                  | 3596  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| apache                  | 3580  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| vba                     | 3292  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| forms                   | 3268  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| web-services            | 3163  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| multithreading          | 3036  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| twitter-bootstrap       | 2881  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| matlab                  | 2854  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| hibernate               | 2852  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| osx                     | 2807  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mongodb                 | 2784  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| winforms                | 2779  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| swing                   | 2720  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| entity-framework        | 2709  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| .htaccess               | 2615  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jsf                     | 2572  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jsp                     | 2518  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| wcf                     | 2482  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| oracle                  | 2479  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| visual-studio-2010      | 2446  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| cordova                 | 2442  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sockets                 | 2370  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-chrome           | 2357  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| excel-vba               | 2356  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sqlite                  | 2355  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| internet-explorer       | 2350  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| swift                   | 2347  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| performance             | 2307  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp.net-mvc-4           | 2287  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| qt                      | 2249  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-maps             | 2201  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| maven                   | 2095  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| codeigniter             | 2058  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| visual-studio           | 1991  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| actionscript-3          | 1980  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| rest                    | 1955  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| spring-mvc              | 1917  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| facebook-graph-api      | 1894  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| email                   | 1867  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jquery-mobile           | 1843  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| listview                | 1832  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| opencv                  | 1812  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| magento                 | 1811  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ruby-on-rails-3         | 1760  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| tomcat                  | 1755  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| css3                    | 1752  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jquery-ui               | 1737  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| uitableview             | 1720  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| http                    | 1704  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| python-2.7              | 1689  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| session                 | 1688  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| pdf                     | 1687  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| api                     | 1686  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| symfony2                | 1673  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sql-server-2008         | 1667  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| flash                   | 1662  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| file                    | 1633  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| xaml                    | 1611  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| regex                   | 1608  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-layout          | 1594  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| d3.js                   | 1585  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| validation              | 1583  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| git                     | 1576  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| visual-studio-2012      | 1533  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| csv                     | 1529  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ms-access               | 1517  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| primefaces              | 1509  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| firefox                 | 1494  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| postgresql              | 1483  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| curl                    | 1477  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| servlets                | 1465  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| iis                     | 1458  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ipad                    | 1434  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-app-engine       | 1429  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| iframe                  | 1425  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| opengl                  | 1408  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| user-interface          | 1398  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jpa                     | 1381  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-fragments       | 1355  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jsf-2                   | 1328  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ruby-on-rails-4         | 1325  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| algorithm               | 1322  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp.net-mvc-3           | 1321  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ubuntu                  | 1320  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| string                  | 1311  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| cakephp                 | 1298  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| grails                  | 1293  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| post                    | 1273  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| java-ee                 | 1261  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| audio                   | 1252  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| visual-studio-2013      | 1250  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| debugging               | 1248  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| soap                    | 1240  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| flex                    | 1233  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| laravel                 | 1218  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| winapi                  | 1216  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| linq                    | 1215  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| selenium                | 1200  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| animation               | 1198  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| function                | 1196  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| redirect                | 1187  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| c#-4.0                  | 1180  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mod-rewrite             | 1177  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| windows-phone-8         | 1176  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| gridview                | 1171  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ssl                     | 1164  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| security                | 1156  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| visual-c++              | 1147  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| video                   | 1147  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-intent          | 1139  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| cookies                 | 1119  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| parsing                 | 1117  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| authentication          | 1114  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mobile                  | 1107  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| dll                     | 1107  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| hadoop                  | 1088  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| file-upload             | 1087  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| url                     | 1075  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| nginx                   | 1071  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| svg                     | 1064  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| bash                    | 1059  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| stored-procedures       | 1049  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| canvas                  | 1045  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| netbeans                | 1040  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| batch-file              | 1038  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| caching                 | 1038  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| cocoa                   | 1027  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| highcharts              | 1026  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| delphi                  | 1009  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| image-processing        | 1005  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-activity        | 1002  |
+-------------------------+-------+
| shell                   | 998   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| unit-testing            | 997   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| class                   | 983   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| joomla                  | 978   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| dom                     | 974   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| web                     | 971   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| loops                   | 969   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| exception               | 960   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-listview        | 959   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ios7                    | 953   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| events                  | 946   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| extjs                   | 945   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-maps-api-3       | 940   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| backbone.js             | 935   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| silverlight             | 934   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jdbc                    | 932   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| button                  | 918   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| twitter                 | 918   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| table                   | 913   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| browser                 | 910   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| express                 | 908   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| encryption              | 888   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| assembly                | 885   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| powershell              | 881   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| parse.com               | 877   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| search                  | 871   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| datagridview            | 868   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| date                    | 864   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| heroku                  | 862   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| perl                    | 861   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| networking              | 859   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| azure                   | 858   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| amazon-web-services     | 844   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| service                 | 843   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sorting                 | 839   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| list                    | 838   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| razor                   | 837   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| scala                   | 835   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| reporting-services      | 821   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| model-view-controller   | 817   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| core-data               | 801   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| plugins                 | 800   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| python-3.x              | 798   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| memory                  | 791   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| gcc                     | 789   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| login                   | 781   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-chrome-extension | 780   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| scroll                  | 777   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| struts2                 | 772   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| javafx                  | 770   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| object                  | 769   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sharepoint              | 766   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| printing                | 763   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asynchronous            | 757   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| zend-framework          | 752   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mysqli                  | 750   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| unity3d                 | 745   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-apps-script      | 742   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| pdo                     | 741   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| serialization           | 736   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ember.js                | 735   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-studio          | 726   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| layout                  | 726   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| tcp                     | 726   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| checkbox                | 725   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| gwt                     | 725   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp.net-web-api         | 723   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| dynamic                 | 722   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| unix                    | 721   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| yii                     | 716   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| paypal                  | 711   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| webview                 | 709   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| bitmap                  | 708   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ssis                    | 706   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| cocoa-touch             | 706   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| variables               | 700   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| drop-down-menu          | 700   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| templates               | 690   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| logging                 | 689   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| charts                  | 689   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| selenium-webdriver      | 688   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| windows-phone-7         | 686   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| svn                     | 680   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mvvm                    | 679   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| crash                   | 678   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| laravel-4               | 677   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| cocos2d-iphone          | 675   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| view                    | 673   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| datatable               | 670   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| testing                 | 669   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| xslt                    | 667   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| solr                    | 665   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| internet-explorer-8     | 661   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jar                     | 651   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| utf-8                   | 651   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| crystal-reports         | 648   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| oop                     | 647   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| encoding                | 647   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ftp                     | 645   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| matrix                  | 645   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| meteor                  | 645   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| safari                  | 643   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| web-applications        | 642   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| datetime                | 641   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| boost                   | 641   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| upload                  | 640   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| intellij-idea           | 632   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| pandas                  | 630   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| angularjs-directive     | 630   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| text                    | 629   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| three.js                | 628   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| select                  | 628   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| opengl-es               | 627   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jboss                   | 624   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| activerecord            | 624   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| memory-leaks            | 618   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| knockout.js             | 617   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| combobox                | 613   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| download                | 612   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| android-asynctask       | 611   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| oracle11g               | 610   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| https                   | 609   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| applet                  | 608   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jqgrid                  | 605   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| spring-security         | 604   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| menu                    | 601   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| datagrid                | 599   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| autocomplete            | 599   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| elasticsearch           | 599   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jquery-plugins          | 597   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| vbscript                | 597   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| graphics                | 595   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| graph                   | 594   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| tsql                    | 593   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| nhibernate              | 588   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| twitter-bootstrap-3     | 587   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| join                    | 584   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| import                  | 584   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| memory-management       | 581   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| fonts                   | 581   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| timer                   | 578   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| matplotlib              | 577   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| com                     | 572   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| deployment              | 571   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| input                   | 569   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| optimization            | 563   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| uiview                  | 563   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| bluetooth               | 562   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| makefile                | 562   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| hyperlink               | 562   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| tabs                    | 560   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ant                     | 558   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| triggers                | 558   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| drupal                  | 557   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sprite-kit              | 555   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| phpmyadmin              | 552   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| sqlite3                 | 552   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| mfc                     | 544   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ssh                     | 542   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| fancybox                | 542   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| uiviewcontroller        | 536   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| jenkins                 | 535   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| for-loop                | 532   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| libgdx                  | 531   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| ffmpeg                  | 528   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| file-io                 | 525   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| pagination              | 525   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| process                 | 525   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| xml-parsing             | 520   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| doctrine2               | 519   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| responsive-design       | 518   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| nullpointerexception    | 517   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| indexing                | 515   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp-classic             | 514   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| asp.net-mvc-5           | 513   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| google-analytics        | 512   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| plot                    | 512   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| filter                  | 508   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| recursion               | 507   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| air                     | 506   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| youtube                 | 502   |
+-------------------------+-------+
| proxy                   | 500   |
+-------------------------+-------+

Here's the same breakdown (thanks to the Tuna), but using the total of questions asked on the tag for comparison. If this change is implemented, only 40 tags would be obliterated, only 134 would lose more than a 50 percent of their questions, and 23679 tags would lose less than 10% of their content. The average percentage of questions in a tag deleted is 5.46%, median 4.07% and mode 7.14%.

16
  • 6
    Is interesting that php, which historically has the most questions in the close queue is fourth place... that maybe indicates that PHP guys close questions before they have time to be forgotten.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:06
  • 1
    I found that interesting as well. My bet is that the dupehammers have had a noticeable effect. PHP gets a lot of dupes from people code/error dumping and having only one vote to close those have greased the wheels
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:25
  • 1
    @Machavity I doubt so, since the dupe hammer is very new (May '14) and most of these questions are very old.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:27
  • So zero is the most common score? It might mean the zero score bin is too big and contains lots of good and not so good questions. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:34
  • 1
    @Trilarion no. >0 is the most common. 51% vs 43%
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 15:35
  • I don't think the question is "are most of the affected questions in popular tags?" because of course they are. A more interesting question might be "do affected questions make up a larger share of total (currently not deleted) questions in less popular tags?" (Sorry, I'm not SQL/SEDE literate, so I don't know the proper way to adjust the linked query off the top of my head.)
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:12
  • 2
    @Frank That query was responding Trilarion concerns. He says that questions doesn't get votes or answers because they use unpopular tags, this proves that's not the reason. (My take is a lack of interest on these questions, but that's a personal view on it.)
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:14
  • 1
    Oh ok. That's a different question, yeah. However, I don't think this answers/proves something regarding that, either. His assertion/guess also seems to be about unpopular tags being overrepresented among those affected, while a simple tabulation by tag (as you have here) doesn't shed light on that except for those of us that know the # questions for every tag off the top of our heads.
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:20
  • @Frank not sure how that would be useful either. The deletion criteria is pretty difficult to fulfill (1yr old, 0 votes, 0 answers, views = 1.5*days asked). That less popular tags fit the bill more than popular tags? Maybe. But people are strongly biased towards new/recently active questions everywhere, so I wouldn't bet that less popular tags would have more questions removed proportionally.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:27
  • 1
    Yeah, there are reasons to suspect the data would show that the unpopular tags are in fact not overrepresented. Seeing that result would be informative, in my opinion. Then I could abandon my hunch that "Well, these questions (of mine) didn't get answers simply because there are only three people looking at or answering Stata questions". That seems to be the same thing Trilarion was getting at, but I could be wrong.
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:31
  • 3
    @Frank I wouldn't be surprised if a tag gets deleted if my proposal is implemented (there's a very long tail of tags with 1 post), and I don't think that would be a showstopper either. A "unpopular" tag actually tends to get more eyeballs per question, and if nobody shows interest at that point... well, it becomes just background noise.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:33
  • I'd be surprised if unpopular tags actually get more eyeballs, but yeah, if a tag is so small that there's really no one there, no point keeping the tag around. What I have in mind are more "medium-sized" tags. Anyway, it's just a hunch; while you have the counter-hunch ("I wouldn't bet that less popular tags would have more questions removed proportionally"), which is fine (since I'm too lazy to learn to SEDE).
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:37
  • @Frank: I adjusted the data explorer query to show how many percent of each tag's questions would be affected. Visualizing it doesn't really make things very clear either.
    – sth
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 22:01
  • Thanks, @sth. Yep, I'm not finding any relationship there (ignoring the super-small tags).
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 22:23
  • 2
    @Frank the query you were looking for is on the post.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 3:05
2

Sometimes there isn't a good answer to a question. In these cases, the comments may link to bug reports and other resources that help visitors and potentially enable them to solve the problem at some point in time, but aren't immediate solutions. I've mostly seen this on communities like Ask Ubuntu, but I assume it happens on Stack Overflow from time to time, too.

Note: These examples aren't actually eligible for cleanup, but they're pretty close, and it's easy to see how they could've been eligible in slightly different circumstances. It's a lot harder to find eligible questions because they aren't as popular, don't receive as much attention, and, most importantly, get removed.

  • Here's a good example, albeit from Ask Ubuntu. There is an answer, but it could've just as easily been a comment with a simple link to the bug report.
  • Here's another example from Stack Overflow--it happens to have a lot of upvotes, but not all bug-related questions are that lucky.
  • Here's another case--this time I answered my own question, but, had I not, it would've been removed. This is still an issue I personally face from time to time, and it's useful to have a record of it. If I hadn't found a solution before, I'd very much like to know that before I wasted more time checking the same resources.

Update: Some more examples that actually fit the criteria for deletion either under the existing system or the proposed system. These are all from Unanswered, page 2000. It varies widely, but roughly every fourth or fifth question has interesting comments. (That's a very rough estimate, but the point is there's a significant number.)

15
  • 6
    This is my main concern with this proposal. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 12:03
  • 8
    1 example: would be closed as bug report on AU. 2nd example: it isn't even considered in the roomba, as it has been upvoted (yet that doesn't mean that it couldn't be closed). 3rd example: same as 2nd. Basically, none of those questions would have been removed by the roomba anyways.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 12:19
  • 2
    @Braiam My point isn't that these specific questions would've been removed; it's that they were close to being removed, yet they're still constructive. It's harder to find questions that actually fit the criteria because they, well, get removed. (That, and they're not as popular.) These were the closest I could find from my own activity. Edit: Clarified examples in answer.
    – Zenexer
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 12:23
  • 9
    The point is that you should bring actual examples of this doing harm. Otherwise, do not lead astray from the FR. The FR is to ignore comments. That would affect questions with lots of comment but 0 score and 0 answers.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 12:29
  • 2
    @Braiam As I explained, it's more difficult to find questions that actually match--they get cleaned up after a year and aren't drawn the foreground of the UI. These examples provide adequate evidence that those situations do occur, though.
    – Zenexer
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:03
  • Comment that should be an answer, potential solution in comments, lengthy, useful discussion--plenty more if you look around unanswered page 2k
    – Zenexer
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:07
  • Updated answer with proper examples.
    – Zenexer
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:20
  • 6
    In your "comment that should be an answer" example what I'm seeing is not a comment that should be an answer. The commenter is providing a series of steps to help the OP narrow down the problem and the comment actually ends with a remark that suggests that the issue could be in files that the OP did not provide. Actually that question is worthy of being closed. The OP says it does not work but does not say what actually happens vs what should happen. Is there an error on the console? Is the page blank? Is the dropdown looking funny? Who the hell knows.
    – Louis
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:51
  • 2
    This doesn't change my mind about the proposal but I do want to thank you for providing a rebuttal that's actually about whether comments should matter to the roomba. Getting some possible idea about why it works this way now is appreciated.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 14:21
  • 9
    It doesn't change my mind for two reasons. 1) Answers don't belong in comments, they should be in answers. If you see an answer in comments it's OK to put it in an answer yourself if the user isn't around to do it themselves (or doesn't respond to a comment asking them to do so). 2) I don't think useful discussions that aren't part of a Q&A are a good fit for the Q&A format here or line up with the site goal of build[ing] a library of detailed answers.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 14:28
  • @Louis not only that, it would be actually deleted even if my proposal isn't implemented, so it's not something my FR would bring about, but something that inevitably would happen.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 11:46
  • 1
    @BSMP Remember, the view count needs to be low, so it might not be noticed by someone who knows to copy it to an answer. However, if you're like me and often in search of anyone who has any info about secure error messages, those comments could mean the difference between between a couple hours of debugging and a couple weeks.
    – Zenexer
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 22:00
  • 1
    @Louis Even if the comment isn't good enough to be an answer without editing, it's still on track to be very useful to someone sometime in the future. Often, while searching for a solution to a problem I have, I find comments on SE sites that don't quite make it to an answer, but lead me in the right direction. Sometimes years later, I'm finally able to post the answer a handful of people have been searching for.
    – Zenexer
    Commented Sep 5, 2016 at 22:01
  • 2
    As per my c408644 to another answer, this is connected to the fact that any kind of supplemental information is outright prohibited in answers - namely, anything that doesn't provide an actual and reasonably complete solution. So, this boils down to the decision whether we want questions that aren't (and thus probably can't be) answered within a reasonable time (a year). Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 3:33
  • 1
    Since a year is a huge time period in IT (unlike, say, science, where there are legitimate open problems), such "open problems" in this field are completely impractical and are thus useless for SO goals - which is to solve practical problems. Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 3:37
-4

I initially thought I was for this proposal, you know, "Get rid of all the crap!"

But now I'm not so convinced that the questions we're talking about are crappy. A lot of it is probably long-tail -- only needed by a few people a few times -- and answered in comments. For my questions, if they are valuable to even three people per year, I'm happy with that (especially because I might be one of those people).

Of course, it would be better to have comment-answers posted as answers, and I can handle that for my two questions that meet your criteria (by self-answering or bountifying), but there are probably many, many more out there. If they're worthy of deletion, someone can and should take some action to indicate it.

Side note: Looking at my deleted questions, I was surprised none of them were roombaed.

6
  • Does roomba even consider questions that are already deleted? Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 3:41
  • @ivan_pozdeev I guess you're asking about what I said in the last sentence? Yeah, roomba will ignore deleted stuff, I guess. I meant that I was surprised that I was responsible for all my own deletions (and not roomba for any).
    – Frank
    Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 4:16
  • 1
    I'm surprised this answer received more downvotes than upvotes. IMHO, it raises the crux of the concern, which perhaps most SO users don't encounter: some questions are "answered" sufficiently by a comment (often a question) that steers OP in a good direction. Such a comment might well be useful to others coming along. Ah nm, I see the flaw in my thinking: if others found it useful, how come no one bothered to upvote the question? For old questions, the answer is because people weren't in the habit of upvoting questions, but the reminder to upvote Qs should resolve that over time. Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 10:08
  • 1
    @ToolmakerSteve To me the core point is that questions can have a net positive value even if they haven't been interacted with enough to get upvotes or answers. A well-posed question (that says, here's what I've tried and here's how far I've gotten) along with some helpful comments can help others who might stumble upon it. Now, for each such question, there might not be many visitors who benefit from it; but if there are a lot of questions of this sort, I do think their value is worth considering (as the "long-tail" in the sense used in describing Amazon).
    – Frank
    Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 11:59
  • And I think the OP needs to make the case that keeping these questions around is a net bad thing. Of course, this particular OP deals mostly in xkcd memes and one-liners, rather than back-and-forth argument.
    – Frank
    Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 12:01
  • 2
    "To me the core point is that questions can have a net positive value even if they haven't been interacted with enough to get upvotes or answers" "Unanswered questions are a dead-end in search, @Nicolas: they're worth keeping around for a while on the chance that someone will find and answer them, but beyond a certain point if no one is expressing any interest in them they're just noise." -- Shog9
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 13, 2017 at 1:38
-10

The OP discusses the risk that by keeping relic questions around, those having the same question years later may not be willing to ask again, but then those able to answer will never see the question (because answers tend to be given to newer questions).

However, many have pointed out that (many) relic questions have value.

Perhaps we can add a feature to "re-ask" a question? This would only be available for "relic" questions - i.e. really old, no activity for X days, etc. The individual re-asking could edit the question as desired and resubmit the question.

We would have to decide how to manage reputation awards for the questioners (as there are now more than one owning the question). The first/easy solution may be just to preserve the original question but bump it back to the beginning of the queue.

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    "Perhaps we can add a feature to "re-ask" a question?" it already exist, it's called "Ask a question", but the good™ askers refrain from using it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 17:00
  • 1
    @Braiam, why would good askers refrain from asking a good question again? What is the proper mechanism for directing SO users to a previously-asked-but-long-forgotten-but-once-again-sponsered question in the hopes that someone now has the answer? Is this not an activity good askers would want to do? Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 21:12
  • 1
    @GordonBean Why? Because reasking what was already asked before is a universal plague on the Net, so anyone doing it will be beaten up with batons by the local watch<s>dogs</s>guys and thrown out after they're through with them. Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 2:18
  • 3
    Personally, I would edit that question and/or set a bounty on it - as I actually did at least once. Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 2:58
  • Like ivan said, @GordonBean, no new feature needed: just edit the question. Improve it according to the guidelines of "How to ask a good question." Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 10:17
  • If the question were good, it would surely have received at least one answer within a year... ? Commented Mar 12 at 21:49
-12

There are unanswered questions out there where Hans Passant left a comment that is really helpful. He himself has probably not had the time to make it a good answer that suffices his own quality guidelines, but even a link only Hans Passant comment can be a real time saver.

So if you do that, implement an exception for Hans Passant's comments and keep the question.

This may apply to Jon Skeet as well, but it seems I just have a higher overlap in interest with Hans.

1
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    FWIW, I entered Hans's user ID into my SEDE query. I'll leave it to those more familiar with the respective topics to judge how many of those 4198 questions and their comments would still be useful to someone who stumbled over them. Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 19:26
-14

I don't think questions should be deleted at all (except honest-to-Ghod spam). But failing that, automatic deletion should only affect questions where an actual human has expressed a negative opinion of its value. That is, limit it to questions that have received at least one downvote and/or at least one close vote.

Unanswered zero-vote questions do no harm. There is no shortage of space in the cloud. Perhaps someday someone will answer them.

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    Questions with no votes are already counted negatively when calculating bans.
    – davidism
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 16:34
  • 4
    @davidism That, too, is wrong. Zero votes means at worst that no one cared about the question, not that it is actively bad.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 16:35
  • 6
    Just what army of users you think we have? They don't have time to observe all questions asked in a single day in moderately popular tags, you want them to have a informed opinion about ~7.6k questions/day? With the disparate of topics that gets asked everyday?
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 16:40
  • 6
    BTW, and just because it seems that nobody knows how the system works: these questions are already deleted. This FR is to remove a condition were comments are taken into account. Asking for it to be disabled should be done in a separated FR (and prepare to meet with a strong opposition).
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 16:45
  • 2
    @Braiam There are not enough hours in the day for me to report all the things that this site does wrong (especially considering that, as you say, on many of them the meta-commentariat incorrectly considers them not a problem). I settle for kvetching when something really strikes a nerve, as this does.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 17:18
  • 1
    @Braiam It does not matter how many users there are to answer questions. The unanswered zero vote questions would still do no harm even if there was only one person who ever answered anything and they only did, like, one a month.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 17:19
  • 16
    "Unanswered zero-vote questions do no harm. There is no shortage of space in the cloud" -- they do a great deal of harm. They cause searches for actual answers to be cluttered and make it harder to find the question and answer one is actually looking for. There may be no shortage of data storage space, but the more data one stores, the more difficult it is to find the data you actually want. And frankly, the Stack Overflow search tools just aren't up to the task as it is, without encouraging even more data to collect. Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 18:43
  • 1
    @PeterDuniho Those are problems with the search system that should be fixed. Deletionism merely papers over the problem, and does harm to the community.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 0:10
  • 5
    You're missing the point. There will always be "problems with the search system". Even Google hasn't figured out how to make sure the page I actually want is 100% of the time the first item that shows up. It's an intractable problem. One which will always be improved if we have less crap data included in the search space in the first place. There will always be a good reason to try to reduce the amount of crap data. Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 0:17
  • 1
    @PeterDuniho Zero-score questions are not "crap data". I can see, however, that nothing I can say will convince you of that.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 1:04
  • 4
    "I don't think questions should be deleted at all" -- is what you wrote. I agree that some of the questions having 0 score are useful. But most are not. Frankly, we have far too many up-voted questions that aren't useful. It's your position that we shouldn't be deleting questions at all, and that position is simply foolish in the face of the detritus that currently pollutes most search results. Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 1:10
  • 1
    @PeterDuniho I don't agree with the assertion that we have "too many" anything questions that aren't useful.
    – zwol
    Commented Sep 2, 2016 at 2:04
  • 2
    @zwol "no one cared" is actually worse, much worse than "actively bad" (yes, they don't teach this at school). This means it's either completely useless or worthless to the point no one bothered wasting their time even to express that. It doesn't do good, it doesn't even do harm, it does nothing. Commented Oct 29, 2016 at 3:05
-22

This becomes irrelevant if the Roomba is disabled, or at the very least, made to only focus on downvoted questions - as I believe it should be, for the following reasons:

  • if a question is not good, it gets downvoted. If off-topic, it gets closed.
  • 1 year is short, I have had dozens of (good) questions at risk, simply because few people noticed the question or were interested (specialized questions)
  • it conflicts with the Necromancer badge -> make up your mind, do we want to encourage answering old questions or not?
  • downvoters use it to delete questions on purpose
  • users are not notified when a question is deleted
  • it's a basic ethic, at least for me, to respect user content from users unless it is obvious garbage.
  • it happened to me quite a few times that a question removed by Roomba got upvoted after I reposted it.
  • questions older that 60 days that get deleted cannot even be retrieved by the user (details: the deleted search operator is only available to users with over 10,000 reputation, and anyone else only gets the recent deleted posts links in their lists, which are limited to posts created in the past 60 days. Sometimes saved by Wayback Machine, but still, really not cool)
  • Some solutions are developed after the question is asked.
  • etc.

One issue when discussing this kind policies is that active people tend to mostly write answers. If you've asked a significant number of questions I guess you'll be more understanding.

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    "if a question is not good, it gets downvoted. If off-topic, it gets closed." What magical dream land do you live in?! Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:41
  • 6
    @ThisSuitIsBlackNot just vote, like you did for this answer. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:42
  • 11
    Close Votes age a way often on such questions. And why would you want to depend on downvotes? The only purpose of the downvotes in that case, would be to have the question deleted, so why make users go to the trouble of downvoting hundreds of thousands of questions, when it can be automated?
    – user247702
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:43
  • 6
    @Stijn in order not to remove good questions. Roomba is a bulldozer. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:44
  • 19
    SO is a Q&A-site, questions that do not attract answers or attention simply do not belong here. Why? Because chances are that noone else had this problem, or it has been solved already. Good questions gather upvotes. If you feel like your questions do not gain enough attention, make use of the bounty-system, but please, restricting one of the most effective ways of keeping this site clean is really not the way to go.
    – Seth
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:47
  • 4
    @FranckDernoncourt The whole point of those rules is that they indicate that those questions are not good. It seems you hold a different opinion on that then.
    – user247702
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:50
  • 16
    @Seth "Good questions gather upvotes." -> unfortunately, when a question gets a bit more specialized, it's often not the case. Correct, I prefer this kind of question than RTFM questions. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:50
  • 3
    @FranckDernoncourt After a look at some of your 0 score and no answer questions I would say they're not precise enough (thread one), there's no [mcve] wich may help reproducing your error (space to unicode one, without the input it's useless to try to repro it), RTFM (git --cached), or just that people was kind enough with you to not close as too broad (buffering arg). I stopped there digging, but at least I found 4 questions eligible for the roomba delete IMHO. I'd be happy to discuss it more extensively in chat if you wish so.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 16:30
  • 8
    I stopped reading after "Roomba should be disabled,". -1.
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 17:53
  • 18
    @Renan That's okay. I'm sure some didn't even start reading before voting. I call them the vote amplifiers. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 17:58
  • 10
    Very nice answer. I'd say this particular deletion doesn't solve any problem. There is virtually no cost having these questions around but considerably benefit if someone else has this problem too or someone knows the answer even after years which clearly happens. And additionally it's unfair for the low popularity tags, they suffer much more often from zero scored unanswered questions which are clearly on topic. So, either delete right after a single week or never. (One week is the average active time before the stationary state begins.) Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 18:31
  • 3
    @Frank The deleted search operator is only available to users with over 10,000 reputation. Anyone else only gets the recent deleted posts links in their lists, which are limited to posts created in the past 60 days.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 20:59
  • 5
    it conflicts with the Necromancer badge - It's not a conflict; answering a question can save it from being deleted.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 22:32
  • 22
    Whether you agree or not with this answer, it's poor form to try and delete it. Stop it. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 20:38
  • 3
    .... not to mention somewhat amusingly ironic. Commented Sep 1, 2016 at 21:58

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