118

So this question got me thinking...

We have several automatic processes in place for cleaning up cruft, deleting questions that are very unlikely to help anyone else. They're fairly conservative though; an awful lot of lousy questions hang around much longer, occasionally cropping up to annoy folks and attract angst. That's not good for anyone.

The most recent updates to these rules were discussed and implemented here: Turbocharging the Roomba: solutions for premature deletion - but the rest of those rules haven't been updated in over three years.

I think it's high time to revisit the criteria used for these, and try to identify areas for improvement - the goal being to get rid of a much higher volume of useless questions without the need to manually close and delete them. Here's what I'm thinking:

If a question is more than 30 days old, and...

  • has a score of -1 or less, with no votes in the past 30 days
  • has no answers with a score > 0
  • is not locked

...it will be automatically deleted.

Notes on these criteria: the goal is to identify lackluster questions that never attracted an answer useful to someone else. The 30-day vote moratorium addresses a long-time complaint that the existing criteria allowed any downvoter to very quickly delete old questions with little time for review or correction on the part of the author.

Here's a SEDE query to give you an idea of the questions I'm talking about: https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/205342 (returns 100 semi-random questions meeting these criteria)

If a question has been closed for more than 30 days, and...

  • has a score of 0 or less
  • is not locked
  • has no answers with a score > 1
  • has no pending reopen votes

...it will be automatically deleted.

Notes on these criteria: the goal here is to identify closed questions that have neither particularly valuable answers and are unlikely to be re-opened. As such, we dispense with the logic that preserves answers with 1 vote or an accept mark that will stay deletion at 9 days. Downvoted duplicates are also added to the mix.

Here's a SEDE query to give you an idea of the questions I'm talking about: https://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/205349 (returns 100 semi-random questions meeting these criteria)

To give you an idea of the sort of volume this would involve, I looked at the questions posted on Friday May 30th:

  • 8881 questions were posted that day.
  • 291 questions posted that day were closed that day.
  • 429 questions posted that day were eventually closed.
  • 961 questions posted that day currently score less than 0.
  • 7665 questions posted that day are still visible on the site as I type this.
  • 607 questions posted that day would be deleted if the new criteria were put into place.

That's another 7% of questions for that day that'd be removed immediately, with no work required from the folks on the site - no need to close them, no need to run them through the wringer here on meta or in chat, no need to do anything but just vote and then ignore them and let the system do its thing. In total, something north of 140K questions would be removed immediately if this were implemented, representing a rather large number of things that fell through the cracks.

As we continue to work on systems for emphasizing quality over crap, this sort of automatic cleanup system will become an increasingly-important method for keeping the underside of the proverbial rug from becoming too dusty.

Thoughts?

38
  • 30
    +1 Way too often I see terrible useless questions which get closed/duped with a (not impressive) FGITW answer that gets upvotes. Because the answer has positive score the question won't get deleted without 20k user intervention. (10ks can't VTD until 3 days later and by then nobody is looking at the question anymore)
    – Mysticial
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 0:46
  • 4
    I'm curious about your inclusion of the "< 500 views" criteria on the second one. If it's closed, has no answers with a score above 0, and has a negative score, why exactly does it matter how many views it has? How many questions would be saved by keeping that criteria in place?
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 1:00
  • 4
    "has a score of -1 or less, with no votes in the past 30 days" Do you mean no up-votes?
    – Bryan Chen
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 1:16
  • 7
    After thinking about this from a different angle. I think bad questions that are new do a lot more harm than the ones that are old. The new ones show up on the front page flooding out all the good stuff (discussed numerous times already). The old ones sort of fade away and are mostly forgotten. So while I don't think this will solve the question quality problem, it shouldn't discourage us from trying to clean up old stuff anyway.
    – Mysticial
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 1:19
  • 8
    These criteria are crap. I have no creativity. That's why I always bug y'all before pushing for such changes.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 2:20
  • 7
    This isn't really about fixing question quality, @Mysticial - this is more about gearing up for a world in which we don't have to keep slapping folks in the face with lousy questions until they're manually closed and deleted.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 2:23
  • 2
    @BryanChen: Considering the following line, I don't think so: "The 30-day vote moratorium addresses a long-time complaint that the existing criteria allowed any downvoter to very quickly delete old questions with little time for review or correction on the part of the author." Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 2:26
  • 1
    I've been "voting to Roomba-delete" (downvoting) lots of old unanswered questions while looking for questions in my tag (particularly [jsoup]). I'm happy to be cleaning up, but also nervous about (effectively) deleting things with no community supervision (compared to actual close/delete voting). I'm ambivalent about this proposal but happy people are thinking about it. Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 3:10
  • 1
    Is this for SO only, or are the new rules meant to apply to all sites (like the Roomba does)? Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 8:09
  • 2
    1 million upvotes for "Downvoted duplicates are also added to the mix."
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 13:38
  • 3
    Is this just for Stack Overflow? (seeing as it's on MSO).
    – Seth
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 14:10
  • 5
    I'm discussing this in the context of SO right now, @Seth - if/when we decide on final criteria, I'll propose something on MSE. Some of these may not make any sense on other sites.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 14:39
  • 5
    I think the current system is too delete happy. I have posted quite a few answers which IMO are good, but received no votes and are on a zero vote question. Those disappearing if a single user decides to downvote the question seems excessive. Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 17:53
  • 6
    They don't, @Anthony. Folks find an awful lot of stuff that you might not expect them to. It's not like there are a thousand questions on SO garnering the bulk of the page-views every day; SO didn't really even become useful until it had these millions of niche topics that - individually - get a handful of views per day or less, but in aggregate serve to answer a tremendous number of specific questions. Knowing where to draw the line between "this can never help anyone" and "this, and 100 thousand like it, will help one other person besides the asker" is really the crux of this debate.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 19:05
  • 2
    Automatic deletion of more low quality duplicates will help.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 22:50

15 Answers 15

40

Old zero scores with comments

These are questions that got duped, or solved elsewhere and ignored, or homework that passed its due date. Sometimes they have answers, or a few comments. The 365-day script will not delete a post that has an answer, or two or more comments.

Change this to a sliding scale. More comments can keep it around longer, but if it's 0 score with six comments, let that get cleaned up too.

A query to play with this: Questions where comments prevent deletion --- there are a lot of these questions that are sitting there, closed (sometimes not), low views, 0 score... and two comments. The first one is "What have you tried?" and the second one is saying "have you looked at ...?"

Scope of the nearly abandoned questions

To get an idea of the scope of this, duplicate:yes answers:0 score:0 shows us that there are about 15k questions that are dups that have no answers and no score. The only thing keeping them around is the comments.

Removing the duplicate check, we get answers:0 score:0 which is 613k questions... or about 600 unclosed unanswered questions. Going to unanswered tab we get 1,806,898 questions that have no upovted answers... or worded another way, about 1/3rd of the questions that have no answers with votes have 0 score and 0 answers with only comments on them. Half of these questions haven't been active this year.

The only thing keeping these questions around is the comments and that they are not negatively scored.

For this, I do have a specific idea to consider:

  • Start the timer ticking at six months instead of a year.
  • Each month beyond that the threshold for the number of comments is increased by one.

Thus, a question with 0 score, 0 answers and 2 comments today would never be deleted; I'm suggesting deleting it at 7 months. If it had 10 comments, that's 9 months more it could stick around to get clarified, but it should get deleted too if not.

Consider also - if the original poster of the question is deleted, just delete it at six months as they will never come back to read the comments to expand on the question. No one has cared to try to fix the question since then.

Sure, you might be deleting some questions that may someday get a good answer. But you're also clogging up the space of people looking for good questions to answer. The Wisdom of the Ancients doesn't help.

If someone has the same question, they can ask it... its unlikely they'll ever find the duplicate in that mess, and it can't be duped to it anyways (no up voted answer).

Locked migration stubs

This is a favorite of mine. The sequence goes:

  1. Question asked on another site
  2. Question migrated here
  3. ... time passes ...
  4. Question closed

At this point, it's a rejected migration, so it gets locked. But nothing deletes rejected migrations. (The 30-day script deletes the question on the other site). As it's locked, the scripts won't even touch it. As it's locked, the 10ks can't delete it either.

Low view meh duplicates

How much traffic do the questions that get duped to something bring? Especially the (currently) 410 questions linked to the Java NPE question. You get the couple of FGITW answers on it and the answer is over there, and closed to keep more people from trying to answer it (I hope the dup hammer is helping)... but now it's a closed question with 0 score, 100 views after a year... and five answers (one of which was accepted)... and no one will ever find it.

For questions that have over 50 duplicates to them, delete the questions the duplicates that have the fewest views. 50 is still a lot, but it will save the 10ks lots of votes to delete trying to get that 410 down to 50.

More aggressive deleting of 'one up vote' closed questions.

I've got a query that I'll sometimes poke and do some light janitorial work. Cliff questions (v2).

Pick a month, and the results that you get back are things that can be deleted with a single downvote (or two sometimes). It finds lots of things that have really short answers with very few views. Someone did an up vote on the answer and... well, it's sticking around until someone downvotes it. Yea, someone found the answer 'helpful'... but a bunch of people said the question is very poor and it's been closed.

Consider, if the question is low view, has over five net downvotes (-11 +2 is a net -9) to the question for every up vote to the answers, has answers that have a length of less than 500 bytes, and possibly something about the quality filters here too (though a lot of these questions are 'code dump, I have a problem' that appear to get by the quality filters...)... delete it. Note: this says nothing about an accepted answer... the asker clicked the checkmark and that's keeping it from getting deleted by scripts forever.


As to the specific proposal, consider the additional criteria:

  • has never been undeleted

This may not be a bad thing for the other roomba scripts... It's fun watching moderators fight with Community sometimes, but when you want to get something done it's very frustrating. And maybe allow 10k votes to undelete the questions too? But that's getting into another can of worms.

2
  • 12
    "someone found the answer 'helpful'" - if asker has rep over 15 (enough to upvote), then it's typically them who vote up everything dropped into the question
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 5:12
  • Maybe not "never been undeleted", but certainly "never been undeleted by anyone but poster". Commented Dec 26, 2015 at 21:48
17

So this question got me thinking...

I think you are about to make a mistake, nothing you are proposing here would have stopped that from going wrong. The real problem with that junk question was that it was not closed yet. It didn't get closed until two months after it was posted. And only because the OP drew attention to it.

I didn't list that systemic failure because I didn't think it was relevant for that particular question. It was so bad that (probably) most SO users knew how to avoid looking at it. The question title was bad enough to waive that red flag. It is a pretty serious problem, there is only a mechanism to get rid of lousy questions. The really bad ones stay around unclosed. Both because SO users know how to avoid them. And because the close dialog doesn't list decent options for them, it is only suitable for half-way decent attempts at asking a question.

So, please, don't start deleting questions that have answers, that doesn't solve anything. What went fundamentally wrong next with that junk question is that it got re-activated. Forcing users to look at it again. The worse the question, the more likely that mishap.

There's only one domino you have to remove to stop that from falling over repeatedly. Apply the rules you came up with to suppress re-activating the question. And don't stop there, you can make much more sweeping rules:

  • if the question has less than 50 words then nobody wants to look at it again
  • if an edit just removes a tag then nobody wants to look at it again
  • if an edit changes 5 words or less then nobody wants to look at it again
  • if an editor is editing questions at less than 5 minutes intervals then nobody wants to look at them again
12
  • 1
    Another great answer. Thanks for mentioning the interval for subsequent edits, that was a vital factor, due to which things went wrong. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 8:47
  • 2
    per my reading proposed changes would make it so that a single question downvote would trigger removal of that 2 months old crap: "If a question is more than 30 days old, and... has a score of -1 or less, with no votes in the past 30 days has no answers with a score > 0 is not locked ...it will be automatically deleted." (although with a 30 days delay after downvote)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 10:04
  • I'm not so sure about your non-bumping bullet points. "if an edit changes 5 words or less then nobody wants to look at it again", unless the change is from "the value is too high" to "you are all f***ing a*****es". And if an editor is editing that rapidly, we probably do want to look at them, because they're likely doing a terrible job and need some oversight.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:37
  • 2
    Actually, it would've. That question sat for two months with one link-only answer, some comments and one downvote before someone found it again. The Google cached page has 18 views on it. No one was looking at this question, no one was benefiting from it, and the initial evaluation was entirely negative. Forcing more people to look at it so that it can be closed is a waste of time if no one's looking at it already. The edit-bumping discussion has been brought up many times, but with the work being done on the homepage right now perhaps it's time to revisit it - bring it up separately, please.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 21:26
  • Erm, wait, you are going to destroy answered questions that are not closed??? Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 22:38
  • 5
    Read the text in bold and the text immediately after it, please. These criteria will be considerably more complicated by the time all is said and done, but yes, that's essentially what I'm talking about.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 22:56
  • 3
    There's too much bold. Afaict, you are invoking repocalypse all over again. Guys like Gordon Linoff get well over 30% of their answers from questions like that. Very unequally distributed, the [android] tag is filled with answers like that for example. A newbie tag. You'll delete 560 of my answers. Nice way to make your life complicated. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 23:23
  • @Shog9 ^^^ take a look, above is a million dollar point, did your analysis account for that? (meanwhile, grabbing popcorn, preparing to watch Black Weekend 2: Revenge of Deleted and compulsory attempts to invent schema to tame resistance caused by retroactive rep deduction)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 9:05
  • 4
    Your estimate is off by a considerable amount. I'm open to suggestions here, that's why I opened this discussion - but hyperbole isn't helpful.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 0:32
  • 12 is a bit less than 560 indeed. :) @Shog9 as of today, how many users would lose over 5% of "legacy" rep? By legacy I mean rep of posts older than 60 days. If you prefer, I can ask this outside of comments, in a separate answer here or in a separate question
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 5:24
  • Not clear on if that question is relevant; flesh out your concern in an answer, @gnat?
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 5:29
  • @Shog9 there you go -- reposted into the answer
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 6:03
11

My answer isn't really covering more things that should be deleted, but more of a "let's find a way to plug the abuse" method, since you're already looking at updating the criteria.

with no votes in the past 30 days

That's a step in the right direction, but I feel like it doesn't really cover the abuse. It's sad when someone comes along and downvotes a question and then all of a sudden it's eligible for automatic deletion at the next cleanup cycle. But the same can be said about anything. Downvote an answer back to zero? Oh, now the entire question is eligible for automated cleanup. I would propose you expand that criteria and make it more general. Make it so that all criteria must have been met for at least 30 days.

So for your first example, it'd be questions which have:

  • A negative score for at least 30 days;

  • No answers with a score > 0 for at least 30 days;

    This prevent someone from down-voting an answer to make a question immediately eligible for clean-up. All of the answers will need to have been zero-score or lower for a full 30 days before making the question eligible.

  • Had no up-votes in the past 30 days;

    Since the question has to have had a negative score for at least 30 days already, we have safely eliminated the "down-vote it to make it instantly eligible" abuse avenue. Here, we are saying that if it has received an up-vote in the past 30 days, it may still be valuable and should be kept around for a bit longer just in case. If it's only continuing to receive down-votes, though, there's no point in delaying its deletion any further.

    Food for thought: This could potentially be extended to cover its answers as well. So any up-vote on the question or its answers would prevent automated deletion.

  • Not been locked within the past 30 days.

    While probably much less common, locks tend to mean that something was happening to the question recently. It might be safer to keep something like that hanging around for a bit longer, just in case.

I'd also place emphasis on not having any active reopen votes in the past 30 days for the second example.

I think the expanded criteria will reinforce the idea of automated deletions while also preventing the "instant auto-delete eligibility" abuse. It shows that the question is bad and literally nothing has happened on it in the last month, and it's safe to say it can be deleted.

7
  • 7
    The only problem with "a negative score for at least 30 days" is that it makes the query really slow. And it's already not fast. There are probably ways to optimize this (narrow down the candidates first), but my "no votes in 30" criteria produces roughly the same results as your first and third combined, with considerably less complexity.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 3:39
  • 2
    "No answers with a score > 0 for at least 30 days" This doesn't really help a question asker much, because an asker probably won't notice downvotes on someone else's old answer. Whoever answered the question could possibly take some kind of action, like raise a flag about suspicious voting, or possibly improve an answer, I suppose.
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 4:03
  • 1
    Kinda depresses me that you suggested flagging as the stronger possibility than improvement, @Cupcake. Doesn't surprise me, but...
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 14:41
  • 1
    @Shog9 when I wrote that comment, I was thinking, "what if the answer is already really great, and nothing can be done to improve it?" I think such answers are possible, even if they might be rare. Making some kind of trivial change to an answer just to bump it and hopefully gain an upvote just doesn't seem right to me.
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 14:46
  • @Shog any idea why it's so much slower for "must have had a negative score for at least 30 days"? I mean, you shouldn't be needing to sift through very many votes if it's as neglected as it seems.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 22:43
  • If it's as neglected as I want it to be, there won't be any votes @corsiKa... So yes, it's blazing fast in the ideal case.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 0:35
  • 1
    I would also add "no new answer in the past x days. Any answer should exist long enough so there's at least some chance it can be appreciated, if deserved. Commented Dec 26, 2015 at 21:59
9

"Dispense with the logic that preserves answers with 1 vote or an accept mark" sounds like the end of romance...

https://i.sstatic.net/V72GW.png

...meaning, one answering bad (closed and voted down) question can't expect to sustain reputation if it comes only from desperate accept and upvote cast by asker.

Fair enough.

5
  • 5
    Of course, the logic falls apart when all of these help vampires upvote each other, preventing each others' posts from being deleted.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 14:49
  • 1
    @Servy I for one am happy that system will at least (at last!) start dealing with lone, naive, inexperienced vampires whose name is Legion. Voting rings are a different matter
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 15:00
  • 1
    You're talking about organized voting abuse. I'm not. I'm talking about all of the people that upvote all of the crappy answers to crappy questions just because "they tried, and put in some effort" or because "it's technically correct" or what have you. There is a rather large percentage of the population that feel that downvotes are pretty much meant exclusively for spam and highly abusive/offensive content. They upvote each others' posts not because it's a voting ring, but because they upvote most all posts they read.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 15:12
  • 1
    You should clarify that question, @gnat - as it reads, you appear to be asking for voting stats on answers that have no votes.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 22:58
  • @Shog9 "how many upvotes on answers were cast by users other than asker" - is this wording clear enough?
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 5:51
9

Potential for Abuse?

If a question is more than 30 days old, and...

  • has a score of -1 or less, with no votes in the past 30 days
  • has no answers with a score > 0
  • is not locked

...it will be automatically deleted.

I'm concerned about the potential for this to be abused as a weapon by people revenge downvoting questions. For example, I've been the target of several revenge downvoting events over the past month, and have received downvotes on several old questions, including this one, which sits at a score of -2 at the time of this writing.

If your suggestion were to be implemented, then all it would take would be one additional disgruntled user...not hard to find being a high-rep user who actively participates on Meta and in post moderation...and his friend (or a sock puppet) to downvote the single answer on my question, and then *poof*, my question is deleted by the system. Not cool.

12
  • 3
    Note that this is already quite possible - hence the added "age of last vote" requirement.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 2:21
  • 1
    I, too, am concerned about this. I’m not certain this is an instance of revenge downvoting—there may be genuine concerns about its merit—but one of my questions is sitting on the brink, ready to be deleted if the first, more liberal deletion policy goes into effect.
    – icktoofay
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 2:42
  • 1
    Note that the question has an answer that has a score of +2 (and has never been down voted (timeline)). This question would take two answer down votes to fall in the new criteria. The -1 your questions as at would not be sufficient for the question to get deleted. A simple revenge vote on you wouldn't be enough. Furthermore, the most recent vote was on June 27th (prior to your +2 today)... the question it would take another 30 days to fall in the criteria, enough time to add some more content to it and get another vote (or answer).
    – user289086
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 3:21
  • @MichaelT right, that's why I mentioned that someone with access to a few friends or a few sock puppets could also downvote the answer, triggering eligibility, though I can see how the 30 day delay on the question vote helps. Still though, it's annoying to have to take any action at all to garner upvotes and/or answers to prevent auto-deletion, just because someone was being petty. I could be slammed by a month-long project or two at work, and not have the extra time and energy to deal with the voting abuse, in which case I'm still a little screwd.
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 3:29
  • In that case, won't this criteria prevent your question from deletion - "has no answers with a score > 1"? I think socks won't downvote answers because it costs rep for the downvoter, and socks love their rep. Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 3:58
  • @Payeli downvotes on answers are cheap, and socks presumably gamed enough rep to use them for that purpose...
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 3:59
  • Yes. Then maybe one more check should be added in the criteria - "Question never recieved an upvote". However, in low-volume tags, many good questions may still face this abuse as they may not be able to garner the single upvote. Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 4:11
  • In that case, all the filtered posts (as a result of this change) should be sent to a queue for one final human evaluation before deletion, to prevent abuse. Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 4:15
  • 3
    @Payeli that kind of defeats the purpose of an automatic process for cleaning up low-quality questions :/
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 4:16
  • 6
    This "gang of socks" scenario has happened; it's worth noting though that it takes a fair bit of work to build a sock-ring capable of pulling it off, and... it becomes pretty obvious. Especially when, rather than waiting around for 30 days, they can just all mass-flag something and delete it instantly. The more common case is the one you encountered: one person upset over something downvoting everyone he blames for his grief.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2014 at 14:44
  • @AirThomas make this an answer where people will see it, or @reply Shog.
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 18:30
  • 2
    @Cupcake Done. (I tend to assume Shog to be omnipresent in all conversations that have been recently Shogged, and failed to note the date stamps on this one.)
    – Air
    Commented Jul 8, 2014 at 19:46
8

Consider the asker's activity

I've been going through unanswered questions in my tags. Many of the crappy ones were asked 2 years ago by a user who hasn't been seen since 3 days after the question was asked; they didn't invest much effort in asking, so they won't bother sticking around for an answer. These questions could be pruned more aggressively than questions from active users.

If other users are interested in the question, they would have upvoted or (maybe) favorited it, keeping it alive. If you're still worried about false positives, this could be combined with filtering on e.g. low views, to ensure there aren't anonymous users checking the question for updates.

Promote self-cleanup of questions the asker no longer cares about

Some users are active but have similar localized crappy questions no one can answer (homework assignments whose deadline has passed, unexplained crashes of a 3-years-outdated program, etc.). As these users are active, they could be guided to clean up their own questions, using the following two prompts:

  1. Do you still want an answer to this question?
  2. Can this question help anyone else?

If the answer to both questions is no, the question should be deleted. Users will tend to err on the side of saying yes to at least one of the two prompts, so this is a conservative way to take out the garbage without removing potentially-valuable questions.

6

Generally, I do and support the idea of improving the system which takes care of deleting some old, closed and rubbish questions.

Not really "an answer" but just a demonstration of the tags and the count of questions which would be automatically deleted based on your semi-random query with 10K questions and based on my comment

I hope you find this useful with this discussion.

Only tags where there would be more than 100 questions deleted automatically.

enter image description here

enter image description here

4
5

We have an intricate closing system which requires 5 votes to close a post, with possibilities to raise reopen votes or flag for mod attention if you think the post was incorrectly closed.

This system seems to work quite well, there are very few questions that are incorrectly closed. I'm fairly certain that 99.9% of all closed questions are crap.

So why complicate things? If a question has been closed for 30 days:

  • with no edit by the OP
  • with no reopen votes or flags cast

then it should get automatically deleted and removed from the site, end of story. To save all these crap posts for future generations fills no purpose. What for, as a monument over how meek we are at moderating?

The only disadvantage I can see is that those 0.1% of the closed posts which were incorrectly closed, will get tossed away together with the garbage. Unfortunate, but since such posts are so very few, we'll have to accept that as collateral damage.

Also, why there is a manual "delete vote" system in place also baffles me. Just automatically delete the crap!

6
  • deletion would break outside links that may refer high views closed questions, this will hardly serve Stack Overflow purpose to "make Internet better". From this perspective, historical locks would be less harmful - although dormant closed questions are pretty much close to historical lock already (with the difference that these are easier to maintain than locked, and in particular, to delete)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 9:02
  • 1
    @gnat How does a link to a closed crap post "make the Internet better" compared to a dead link? Those questions were closed for a reason, so I'd say that the dead link is preferable.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 9:47
  • content may be crappy (trouble with popularity and such) but that's irrelevant here. I am talking about link rot and frustration of Internet users. "Stack Overflow is unreliable, my links to it often break" - do we want to be "famous" for complaints like this? like blogs.sun.com?
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 9:59
  • 1
    @gnat But currently, SO is working so hard at getting infamous for it's flood of crap and low-quality posts. I don't see how such a reputation is any better. Crap is crap, no matter how you deal with it. There's no way it can contribute to a better reputation, deleted or not.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 10:09
  • from web users perspective, it may be not as bad really. To start with, Googlers see closed questions with sensible "repelling" summary. From "inside", our strong perception of crap being promoted may be skewed by hot questions diluting the brand (which hopefully doesn't leak too much outside "web searches eventually correct artificially promoted stuff..., fixing the issue for visitors coming here... It's SE regulars... who take the hit of fake popularity conditioning coming from sidebar")
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 10:18
  • @gnat Your concerns would be addressed by not automagically deleting questions with many upvotes or many views.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 23:01
3

It's been almost a year since this was first proposed, and nothing much has happened on allowing roomba to delete questions that have accepted answers.

This SEDE query exposes the true gem of these questions that we're not deleting on SO:

Here are the first 10 questions returned by that query (at the time of this posting):

By not implementing this feature, these are the questions we're choosing to keep. I'm glad that the person who asked the question got enough use out of the answer to decide to click the green checkmark. No one else will ever get use from these questions again.

Delete them.

3
  • Cool - none of those SO questions exist any more. Glad this got improved at some point :) Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 9:15
  • @ToolmakerSteve no it didn't, all of them were deleted by users (at least half of them have a delete vote from me), most likely due to the meta effect
    – durron597
    Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 19:11
  • Ahhh, thank you for clarifying that. Commented Apr 11, 2017 at 23:46
3

As a safeguard against misuse of this feature via vote coordination, I suggest the following additional check for the rule concerning the non-closed. questions. Delete if...

a question is more than 30 days old, and...

  • has a score of -1 or less, with no votes in the past 30 days, and < 3 upvotes all-time
  • has no answers with a score > 0 or with >= 3 upvotes
  • is not locked

The idea is simple: if a post has earned 3+ upvotes, there may be something in it that should not be discarded automatically, even if a few downvote-wielding users show up later.


Additionally, a high number of views (500? 1000?) should also prevent the above rule from being applied, to avoid losing posts that are useful to outside visitors but not yet supported by votes of users.

2

I'm not sure if this would fit within the scope of the question, but has anyone considered sicking the roomba on old downvoted answers?

I tend to notice that many questions, especially the more popular/highly upvoted questions, will receive several redundant and/or incorrect responses that no one will likely miss when they're deleted.

It may need more thought and discussion, but I was think something like:

  • Answer older than 60 or 90 days (giving a little more time for the answer to get some eyes on it)
  • Answer has a score of -1 or less, with no votes in the past 30 days
  • At least 3 or 5 other answers to the same question with score greater than 1

Basically it would help to remove the garbage that accumulates under otherwise useful questions.

3
  • As a general rule, we don't delete questions that are incorrect, we just downvote them instead. I do hate exact duplicate answers that are posted days, weeks, months, even years after other answers though, but that requires a human eye to judge, not a machine.
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 6, 2014 at 18:25
  • 2
    @Cupcake My thinking was more along the lines of "Why keep several downvoted answers to a question that has several upvoted answers?" Take this question for example. Do we really need those 4 down voted answers when there's 40 upvoted answers?
    – apaul
    Commented Jul 6, 2014 at 18:31
  • 5
    There's a good reason for weeding out bad question which hardly applies to bad answers: They make the good stuff you want hard to find. It actually takes extra work not to ignore bad answers. Anyway, they might actually be of value due to their comments, because they demonstrate a common error or (especially on meta), because they demonstrate bad ideas / unpopular viewpoints. If they are actually poisonous or a question accumulated too much sludge, a bit of moderation for that specific case can easily be done. Commented Jul 6, 2014 at 19:12
1

Implementing such a change would mean reputation losses for some users which, in turn, can cause some resistance against the cleanup.

The following data would be helpful to estimate this impact:

  • How many users would experience noticeable / substantial loss of legacy [1] reputation if the change was implemented today?
  • In particular, as of today, how many users would lose over 1%, 5%, 10%, 20% of their reputation from posts older than 60 days?
    • It probably would be nice to have this data for all users and additionally filtered to "established" ones, with over 1K reputation.
    • For established users, it would be also interesting to know how many (if any) "outliers" would lose over 50% of their reputation.

*This request for data has been posted as a separate answer as per this discussion in comments.


[1] Legacy - refers to posts older than 60 days, expecting to be able to handle complaints related to deletion of more recent ones, especially due to the view recent deleted posts feature. "Hey, just check your profile - this rep was lost due to deletion of a recent crappy question you asked / answered."

4
  • 3
    ++ but I am like 50/50 on this one because people would bitch for loosing rep but then other may consider this as a lesson not to answer poor questions. So it kind of deals with the rep-whores but also will bring a lot of crying effect
    – user2140173
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 11:23
  • 1
    @mehow as for me, I am all for proposal to be implemented and for us to start playing by new rules from now on. That's why I ask for data to estimate how much resistance could be there and how much is a risk of the change to be blocked / rolled back. I have a couple ideas on how to proceed if risk turns out too high but I hope there won't be a need to implement these...
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 11:40
  • 1
    ...but if, for example, it turns out that some few hundreds high rep users are going to lose 50% of their legacy rep, I would be the first to push for their "protection" - not because of fairness mind you but only to let the change go through and start working for current posts
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 11:41
  • 3
    @gnat I agree but I honestly do not think anyone would loose 50% of their reputation.. I mean maybe that is possible but how likely!? I would be interested to see the simulation statistics.
    – user2140173
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 11:43
1

Related to the answer in here which basically says to vote to close/flag.

Current count: 647366

Problem is that nobody views those any longer... They are either outdated or poor and useless.. You can get the top 100 and view some of them if you have too much time on your hand... most of them are pretty bad...

Voting to close those also isn't a very efficient way since nobody sees them, nobody is going to vote to close but me... I don't want to share the links to the questions and harass other people to help me close them...

Are those old, one-off, abandoned, low views < 100, voteless Q&A useful to anyone? Is there a point in keeping those?

1

Instead of 30 days old, change it to 90 days old, and remove the 30 days without a vote on the question part. Also add a rule that it hasn't been edited in the past 10 days.

If a question is more than 90 days old, and...

  • has a score of < 0
  • has no answers with a score > 0
  • has no accepted answer
  • is not locked
  • has not been edited in the past 10 days

...it will be automatically deleted.

the goal is to identify lackluster questions that never attracted an answer useful to someone else.

Let's delete self accepted answers that meet the following criteria.

If a question is more than 90 days old, and...

  • has a score of < 1
  • has no answers with a score > 0
  • is not locked
  • has not been edited in the past 7 days
  • the accepted answer UserId = the question asked UserId

...it will be automatically deleted.

-2

I like the idea generally, but have one suggestion for smoothing over some of the rough edges:

When the automatic deletion action is triggered, notify the asker and give them a window of time during which they may "rescue" (undelete) their question by offering a bounty.

This will tend to protect established/trusted users who feel their worthy question fell victim to bad luck or targeted abuse. It imposes a cost on the asker to save their question - they have to think, Is this question really worth it?

  • Drive-by users are unlikely to ever see the notification.
  • Very low-rep users who, 30+ days after asking their question, still don't have bounty privileges may or may not be motivated to earn the necessary reputation to save their question before it gets eaten.

The more established the asker (in rep terms), the less likely that the cost of a bounty will be meaningful; still, offering a bounty implies some amount of buttons to press and additional curation responsibility. The truly lazy asker will consider this cost to be higher than the rep cost. Or, if it's anticipated that most users would simply "pay the tax" to keep their questions alive, the cost could be fixed at some value above the standard 50-rep minimum.

At the very least, many users would be appreciative of a ping before their question is eaten. Perhaps there's some crucial detail they forgot, some unresolved comment they missed, some quality answer they neglected to upvote. Of course, incentives should still be geared toward getting it right earlier rather than later, so once the automatic deletion action is triggered, a bounty should be the only way out, and there should definitely be a limited window of opportunity - e.g., within 72 hours of deletion, or 24 hours of viewing the notification. Whatever's easier.

The only thing I wonder is whether the increased visibility of questions that are "rescued" to the featured tab would tend to have an across-the-board upvote effect, saving borderline questions even they continue to stagnate. But even if this is the case, maybe the small participatory (and StackExchange™ MegaPoints RepuScore™...atory) investment made by the asker is worthy of a stay of execution.

2

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .