What happens, or what should I expect, when I ask the community to remove ("burninate") a tag from the system? Is there an established process for the community to follow?
1 Answer
Criteria for Burnination
There are four preliminary tests that help identifying problematic tags:
- Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?
- Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?
- Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?
- Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?
A tag must fail ALL of those tests in order to be considered for burnination. In any case, the ultimate criterion for burnination is whether the tag is actually causing harm:
If you're thinking that these criteria are gonna be pretty tedious to evaluate on a tag with thousands of questions in it, then you're absolutely right - which is why I'm pretty skeptical toward a lot of these requests on those rare occasions I take time to do it. If you're thinking that it's not worth the effort for tags that generally don't seem to be causing any problems, then you're sharper than half the folks throwing up these requests. If it looks like pointless busywork, it probably is pointless busywork...
But sometimes, it's not. Sometimes, tags get in the way, add confusion, start fights, take the place of better tags...
–Shog9
In particular, if it is clear that removing the tag will do more harm than good, then we should obviously not remove it.
Be realistic
If a tag has more than 1000 questions, the review work you and the community have to complete is enormous. You would need to fulfill the additional criterion:
Is the tag causing a fairly large amount of harm?
If a particular tag is bringing lots of off-topic posts to the site, then it certainly is harmful. If the tag isn't harmful, consider instead a divide and conquer approach to the problem by using one or more of these alternative strategies:
- Updating the tag wiki excerpt (an edit can be suggested by anyone, subject to approval)
- Merging or renaming a tag (which can be handled instantly and painlessly by a moderator)
- Adding/removing a tag synonym (which can also be handled instantly and painlessly by a moderator)
If you can identify patterns where users can clean up a significantly smaller amount of posts and merge/rename the remaining posts in the tag as a whole, then that would be a very welcome step. The goal here is to make sure that we are not causing more harm in removing a large tag, than in keeping it as it is.
It might have been preferable to run this process purely on voting, but that would inevitably lead to trouble. Your distaste for a frustrating game shouldn't result in the destruction of otherwise-valid tags.
Once you are convinced that the tag meets all of the burnination criteria and is a good candidate, you may move onto the next step. Remember that burnination is about cleaning up the edges, so:
You can go ahead and remove it yourself or with a little ad hoc help if all holds true:
- you have authoritativea knowledge of all technologies relevant to the tag;
- you have conferred with at least one other trusted community member;
- you are dealing with a tag that has a small number of questions (< 50).
a) someone who earned at least a bronze badge in a related, involved and/or impacted tag. (for example, if you have a c# bronze tag we expect you to know if c#-9.0 should be burned, or if you are a follower of a specific tag that constantly get mistagged with a bad tag).
Otherwise, you must follow the community-led burnination process described below. If required to follow the burnination process, then questions should not be edited to facilitate the burnination until the process reaches step 4: Cleanup & Burnination.
Burnination Process
- Proposal: Concerned parties propose a burninate-request in an appropriately-tagged Meta question, providing a justification using the four criteria linked above. Initial feedback is gathered, the justification is firmed up, and the question collects votes.
A burninate request is nothing more than a proposal, until moved to step 2 by a moderator. If the proposal does not reach a score of at least 20, a moderator will not feature it. Apathy should not be interpreted as a sign of support. If it does not reach the required score of 20 within 6 months, the request may be marked status-declined. If in future, the tag becomes problematic, a new proposal should be started.
- Featuring: For burninate requests that have met or exceeded the initial threshold score, the next step of the process is "featuring"—which is important to gather the feedback of the community at large, even those who do not normally visit the Meta site. This gives folks a chance to show their support for the burnination and also gives folks who thought it was too silly to be worth talking about to step up and explain why the request should be denied.
* Please note that burninations vary in the length of time required to address or complete them. Some could be completed in as little as a week, while others have gone on for multiple months. As it stands, there is sometimes a large backlog of requests, so do not expect a burnination to receive the featured tag right away (See Why do some burninate requests with over 20 votes not get featured?).
A moderator will add the featured tag to the burninate request and leave it in place for a minimum of 36–48 hours (and preferably not counting a weekend), extending it up to when there is clear consensus. Featured questions are displayed in the Community Bulletin on the main site, in order to provide exposure to the community at large, including users who come across that tag in their typical travels on the site.
(Beware that the selection of burninate requests to feature is a manual process, and that there is a backlog and other complicating factors. We do our best to pick the most critical, highest-impact candidates on a semi-regular schedule.)Punny titles are forbidden during this phase. The moderator will replace them and retitle the question using the format "Should we burninate the [name of tag] tag?"
The following hidden warning and public notice will be edited into the top of the post:
<!-- MODERATOR NOTE TO EDITORS: Do not change the question's title while it is being [featured]. No puns! If you ignore this note, it will be considered abuse and handled accordingly. --> > #### *This tag is in phase 2 of the burnination process described [here](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/324070). The question and comments have been cleaned to allow for on-topic discussion about the burnination of this tag. Please keep it that way.* > ###### *If you want to discuss the process of burnination itself, post a new question on Meta or visit the [SOCVR chat room](https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/41570).* -----
The moderator will add a post notice (Featured Burninate Request), which displays as a large banner at the top of the question.
Per the notice, the moderator will clean up obsolete, chatty, and punny comments to make way for the important discussion. Typically, moderators will leave a comment noting the score breakdown of the question and its answers (if any) before featuring.
Do not start removing the tag during the "proposal" or "featuring" phases!
- Decision: After its time in the spotlight, a moderator will review the request and any arguments for/against it. They decide in this step whether to continue with the burnination process, or to terminate it early. A high influx of downvotes or fresh comments during the "featured" phase is a signal to hold back on burnination.
Using the votes from the question and its answers and comments to judge the community consensus, the moderator will either:
- Terminate the burnination process by adding the status-declined tag to the question. This signals that the community decided against burnination of the tag at this time. If new evidence later warrants re-evaluation of that decision, a new proposal can be started.
- Find a tag that can be cleanly removed immediately, with no extended clean-up required, and skip directly to step #5.
- Move on to the next step (#4) of the process.
- Cleanup & Burnination: This is the step where we call Trogdor the Burninator. He takes the form of community members who work together to review and clean up questions with the doomed tag. During this phase:
A moderator will add the status-planned tag to the question, signaling that burnination is in-progress.
The title will be changed to the form, "The [name of the tag] tag is in the process of being burninated"
The post notice will be updated to In-progress Burninate Request.
The tag's wiki will be edited to "DO NOT USE! This tag is being burninated. See: <link to Meta question>" (or the tag will be blocked).
To keep the process visible, a "community wiki" answer will be posted (if one hasn't been already) that provides the following guidance:
# Observations/Retag Guidance: <Observations about the tag's current usage and specific guidance for cleaning it up. This should either be summarized or carried over directly from the previous discussion. [This is formatted as an HTML tag, not a comment, so the post editor complains and reminds you it need to be dealt with.]> <!--Move these out of an HTML comment when there's specific guidance: - Guidance 1 - Guidance 2 - Guidance 3 --> # Progress: The [tag:REPLACE_WITH_TAG] tag is in the process of being burninated. You can help out by reviewing the questions with this tag, and... - **editing** questions to improve the question *and* remove the tag (retag-only edits are best left to users with full edit privileges; i.e. > 2k reputation), - **flagging/voting to close** questions that are duplicates/off-topic/unclear/too broad/opinion-based (users with < 3k reputation can help quite a bit by flagging questions for closure, which helps keep the Close Vote Review Queue full), - **filtering** for questions with this tag in the [Close Vote Queue](https://stackoverflow.com/review/close/?filter-tags=REPLACE_WITH_TAG), - **voting** on questions with this tag, - voting to **delete** the questions with this tag (after they have been closed, and only if the entire Q&A contains nothing of value). However, keep in mind that at the end of the burnination process all closed questions containing this tag will be deleted semi-automatically. Thus, there's rarely a need to vote to delete these questions. Here are some quick links to get you started: - [Open](https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5BREPLACE_WITH_TAG%5D+closed%3Ano) - [Staging ground](https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5BREPLACE_WITH_TAG%5D+closed%3Ano+sg%3A1) - [Closed](https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5BREPLACE_WITH_TAG%5D+closed%3Ayes) - [Unanswered](https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5BREPLACE_WITH_TAG%5D+answers%3A0+closed%3Ano) - [No Accepted Answer](https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=%5BREPLACE_WITH_TAG%5D+hasaccepted%3A0+closed%3Ano) # Track the progress of burnination * [Coordination chatroom](https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/244740/burnination-hq) * [Progress tracker](https://rodgort.sobotics.org/progress?metaQuestionId=META_QID) # Remember that burnination is a *clean-up* effort! ### Salvage whatever possible by editing and re-tagging. We don't want to destroy value, so salvaging a post should be your first priority. If a question can be saved, please edit it. Your edit should improve *all* problems with the question *and* remove the [tag:REPLACE_WITH_TAG] tag, possibly replacing it with another tag, as described above in "Observations/Retag Guidance". (Edits, specially re-tags, are best left to users with [full edit privileges](https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/edit)) ### Unsalvageable questions should just be flagged/voted for closure. They don't need to be retagged. If the question is not appropriate for this site, then don't worry about removing the [tag:REPLACE_WITH_TAG] tag—just flag/vote to close the question. At the end of the burnination process, all questions which still have the [tag:REPLACE_WITH_TAG] tag should have been closed. These will be mass-deleted, which will remove the tag from the system automatically, with minimal disruption. ### Ask for help if you need it. If you have any questions about specific questions you come across, or the process in general, please feel free to leave a comment on this post. You can also drop into the [SOCVR chat room](https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/41570) for real-time advice and discussion.
The person who posts this answer is the one who is spear-heading the burnination effort. That person can be:
- the person who originally posted the burnination proposal,
- another interested and dedicated person,
- a topic-specific chat room,
- the SOCVR chat room (not for tags on Meta Stack Overflow), or
- the moderator who brought us to this point in the process.
- Completion: Once step #4 has been completed, whoever is spear-heading the request will flag it for moderator attention.
The moderator will then
- delete any closed, negatively-scored questions with the relevant tag, and subsequently remove the tag from the system entirely, if the number of remaining posts are a few hundreds.
- contact a Community Manager to remove the tag from the system if there are lots of remaining posts.
Once the tag has been removed, the moderator will:
Add the status-completed tag to the question.
Switch the post notice to Completed Burninate Request.
Edit the question's title to something boring like, "The [name of tag] tag has been burninated", or revert to a punny title.
Edit the answer to mention that the burnination has been completed
[tag:tag] has been *burninated*. ![trogdor](https://i.sstatic.net/Zm85C.png) Thanks to everyone who participated.
This allows Trogdor to take a little nap, until the next time he is called upon!
Examples of Completed Burninations
Here are a couple of status-completed burninate-request proposals. These tags were burninated following the above process:
[entry] [research] [guidelines] [priority] [movement] [logical] [violation] [functionality]
[arrow] [software-engineering] [ibm] [hijack] [dot-notation] [wheel] [booking] [multiple]
Here are a couple of examples of status-declined burninate-request proposals:
[nokia] [chemistry] [cisco]
[convention] [trial] [sony] [garrys-mod] [boolean] [slave] [haskell-arrows] [achievements] [vstest]
[news ticker] [loadmask] [abbrevia] [asp.net-identity-2] [printing] [precompiler]
[naming-conventions] [force-download] [less] [jdownloader] [cep] [minidump] [javahelp] [minecraft] [Persian] [gcloud]
[sqlcl] [extern-c] [spreadsheet-gem] [Rocket.Chat] [sku] [substring] [softmax] [crash] [watermark] [python] [sql] [logic] [infragistics] [pacman]
And finally, there are tags whose burnination was initially declined but then the community decided it was the right move:
[music]: (declined), (completed)
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25The claim here that "A tag must fail all of these tests in order to be considered for burnination" clearly isn't followed in practice - and nor should it be. Just one example of why not: if it were, then the presence of criteria 1 and 4 would mean that any tag that is unambiguous, no matter how worthless, harmful, or off-topic it is, is automatically exempt from burnination. Yet, a glance at our recent
status-completed
burninate requests turns up cases likexlworkbook
,python-list
,korean
, andgdpr
, that - whatever their merits - clearly do point unambiguously to a single concept. Commented Feb 20, 2019 at 15:41 -
1Didn't realize
tag removal
was such a serious endeavor. Does anyone look at search engine or SO (or other sister sites) to determine the origin of the traffic to the question with tags? It is possible that the modern/trending lingo for a particular topic could justify the tag.– Jon GrahCommented Mar 17, 2019 at 10:28 -
6@JonGrah despite popular belief a tag is not meant to drive traffic from outside to a post. Tags are used by the experts to find the questions they can answer. Having tags that are cluttered with off-topic / low-quality stuff hinder them in providing valuable content. If anything, tag curation is aimed at helping those experts and that helps visitors that happen to use a tag search as well. With that said I don't think modern/trending lingo is relevant in justifying a tag.– reneCommented Mar 17, 2019 at 10:47
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3@MarkAmery Also, if tags truly had to "fail all of these tests", criterion #2 would mean that no on-topic tag should be burninated. I think it would be more adequate to say that failing at least one of the tests is a necessary, though not sufficient, condition for burnination. Shog's wording when explaining criterion #4 appears to support this interpretation: "Be aware though, this [criterion] need only be a death sentence when [...]" -- the point being that criterion #4 alone might suffice to seal the fate of a tag.– duplodeCommented Jul 8, 2019 at 3:12
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That's true @MarkAmery, there are some tags which were removed even though they did not meet the 4 criteria strictly, however if we go back and see, most of them were removed because the posts were retagged to something more useful. [python-list] for example, was retagged to [python]+[list], [korean] was synonymized to [cjk], [xlworkbook] was retagged, and so on. ([gdpr] was done by CMs and not users - how I wish CMs were more involved :/). I do get it that these are all just examples that you immediately saw, but still addressed these.– Bhargav Rao ModCommented Jul 14, 2019 at 7:04
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The bottom line is that there are other ways to get rid of a tag, apart from burnination, like merging to another tag, renaming it, mass-retagging it to something else, adding it as a synonym to another tag and so on, which are more useful. If a tag fails one of the 4 criteria, it certainly might fit for removal based on one of these other techniques. For example, if the tag fails just 1 and 4, then we can go in for a tag-disambiguation, if it fails just 2 (ref: company tags), we can go in for renaming the tag, and so on. These all do remove the tag, but don't follow the burnination procedure.– Bhargav Rao ModCommented Jul 14, 2019 at 7:04
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All that said, the claim seems to be valid of late, and has helped save some of the borderline tags, and I would be tempted to let it stay, rather than remove it.– Bhargav Rao ModCommented Jul 14, 2019 at 7:04
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1Adding to duplode's comment: #2 does not necessarily need to be failed. The point is that the tag adds no value to the question, nobody would ever search for it, watch it or anything like that. For example tags like "question", "computer" or "help" would be useless and should be deleted. Commented Jan 16, 2020 at 14:19
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6must fail ALL of those tests. I propose we relax this criteria to 2/4. Almost all of the requests which are [status-completed] fail the unanimous 4/4 test. But we just act as if it passes all the test. Commented Jul 23, 2022 at 16:55
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Is it just me not reading step 4 correctly, or is there no explicit statement in that step that the community works to remove the tag? Commented Feb 18, 2023 at 22:23
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@AndrewMorton correct. All we say is He takes the form of community members who work together to review and clean up questions with the doomed tag– reneCommented Feb 18, 2023 at 22:57