34

I recently ran across the tag. I don't think this tag should exist for the following reasons:

  1. To me it seems like this tag is way too broad. A large number, if not the majority of questions on Stack Overflow are the

    result of an unrecoverable error that causes the program to stop completely.

    I refuse to believe this tag belongs on all those questions.

  2. I don't think this tag works as the sole tag on a question. There is no indication of architecture, operating system, or even programming language. It does not help define the question.

  3. I also think it is impossible to be an expert in crashes.

I suppose the main problem with getting rid of this thing is that it has close to 10k questions so removing it would be a pain.

13
  • 26
    I mean I know a couple of people who are experts in commiting code that will make the whole project crash ... But yes, this tag shouldn't exist.
    – Keiwan
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:10
  • 5
    Why can I be an expert in debugging but not in crashes? Crashes are a subset of debugging issues. I like the tag. Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:39
  • 3
    @ThomasWeller I see what you're going for. I think that it is because debugging can be thought of as a similar (if not exact) methodology applied to many different types of errors over many types of systems. In my mind, to be a expert in crashes, you would literally need to know about the details of every kind of crash imaginable!
    – code11
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:44
  • 1
    There are user mode crashes and kernel mode crashes (blue screens). No matter what exception, the beginning of an analysis is always the same (on Windows using WinDbg, I can't speak for Linux). Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:48
  • 3
    Should we also get rid of [exception], because it causes a crash? What about [crash-reports]? These are all tags I follow. Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:51
  • 1
    @ThomasWeller Perhaps if crashes can be defined as formally as you have laid out, it is simply a problem with the tag wiki and maybe some clean up is required. I just don't think the tag should be able to be used for literally every snippet of code that errors.
    – code11
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:59
  • I disagree with burning this tag. What if someone wanted to search all tags related to crash in order to do an analysis on the threads? Leave it be. Let's not be so nit-picky.
    – T-Heron
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 14:40
  • 1
    @T-Heron that's precisely what tags are not for.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 15:30
  • @Braiam - oh for crying out loud already....this is the type of answer which led to the authorship of this article: hackernoon.com/…
    – T-Heron
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 16:13
  • @T-Heron I would try to post the response to that blog post, but you aren't likely to change your mind, and I have better things to do.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 16:33
  • @Braiam - yes, we're not going to change each other's minds here. I understand that was cute article, but we are a giant community and with that, there is a broad diversity of opinion.
    – T-Heron
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 16:36
  • Thanks to @DVK's comment, I remembered there was another question about this tag: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255483/… Commented Mar 20, 2017 at 3:28
  • @AndrewGrimm thats interesting, I certainly looked for duplicates before I posted. I am rather unconvinced by that post. Its answer is basically just Hans Passant saying the tag is good because he has some custom filters that keep it on topic for him. Illidanek had a much more constructive answer IMO in breaking it down into smaller tags.
    – code11
    Commented Mar 20, 2017 at 13:05

2 Answers 2

11

Yes, this is a bad tag.

The process of diagnosing and fixing a bug that causes a is entirely dependent on the language and environment involved. Knowing how to debug a crash in a C program on Linux (e.g, using GDB, valgrind, etc) is completely useless in debugging a crash in a Java, C#, PHP, Python… application, and marginally useful even in debugging a crash on Windows.

Moreover, especially in high-level languages, there are a lot of different types of errors which could be classified as a . It's barely more specific than , which is thankfully! blacklisted.

3
  • 3
    You've made a case for why it is a bad tag, but you have not made a case as to why it should be burninated. Not all bad tags need to be removed wholesale, only those that are actively causing harm do. The tag has too many questions to burninate with the tools we have available to us right now. As said elsewhere, software-engineering had ~1700 questions, has been in the burnination process for 2 months, is still being burninated, and it is actually off-topic!
    – user4639281
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 21:27
  • @TinyGiant being a crap magnet is a very valid reason to do everything in our power to get rid of the magnet, isn't it?
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 0:56
  • I don't see a crap magnet @Braiam. I see a reasonable, but marginally useful tag.
    – user4639281
    Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 20:55
-8

I disagree with burning the tag. From the four criteria to burn a tag:

  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

Yes. A crash means that the software exited in a dramatic and unexpected way. Normal use of the word doesn't have any other meanings.

  1. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

Because crashing relates to software, it is on-topic here, assuming they are fixing a crash through programming, not using software.

  1. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

No. The title or body should tell you that the program is crashing. Adding this tag just repeats that information.

  1. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

The only other meaning I can see used for the tag would be with a simulation, like a car crash. However, I still feel that the term is very unambiguous, even when combined with other tags.


#3 has a great reason for removing the tag, but I still feel that the tag is so widely used and is not causing active harm that it should not be important to remove it.


I'd just like to remind everyone that there is a difference between a bad tag and a tag that should be burned. I fully agree that [crash] is a bad tag. However, right now it has 9,300 question and doesn't seem to cause any wide-spread harm.

How many tag burninations have you personally participated in? software-engineering had only 1,800 questions. The bulk of the work took 48 days.

Software Engineering was a tag causing harm to the site by allowing off-topic posts, and only had a relatively small number of posts. This is the sort of tag the community can handle.

There are a lot of tag burnination requests. 721 of them. 25% of them have been marked "completed".

This is a topic for a larger discussion, but there needs to be an understanding that it's very easy to make a burn suggestion, but very hard to follow through with it.

[crash] is not the tag that the community should spend effort to burn.

12
  • 13
    I agree with 2-4. However, for 1. consider that although the tag unambiguously describes the concept of a crash, I argue that concept is too large for a single useful tag. There are many types of crashes over many different systems. To lump them all into one is IMO a mistake.
    – code11
    Commented Mar 17, 2017 at 14:39
  • Because the work is hard, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 15:30
  • 4
    @Braiam If the work is hard, you're not doing it correctly. We're engineers and programmers. 48 days of manual labor is not a long term solution. Until a systematic change comes to the burnination system, only a handful of people in the community will even bother to act on these requests. We are both in SOCVR, we both know that.
    – gunr2171
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 15:33
  • 1
    I know that if we sit with the hands on our knees, nothing will ever be done.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 16:34
  • 3
    @Braiam Right, so let's work to fix the system. We've already made progress by defining basic criteria for tags burn requests and solidifying the tag burnination procedure. We're still a ways away from the end goal, but that would be a better use of time.
    – gunr2171
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 16:38
  • I'm fixing the system: removing bad tags from it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 18:09
  • 3
    @Braiam software-engineering is still in its death throes after two months of work, and that was 1,700 questions. Good luck handling 10,000 questions!
    – TylerH
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 18:59
  • 1
    @Braiam so if you can manage to get as much help as Tyler did with software engineering, and keep that help from burning out as time goes on, and get the tag blacklisted so it doesn't get added to any new questions, and keep your sanity throughout it all, then it should only take you roughly 10 or 11 months to complete.
    – user4639281
    Commented Mar 18, 2017 at 21:20
  • I don't need to handle 10k questions, just convince 1 person to run a single script that deletes all the questions that has the tag...
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 0:58
  • @Braiam that's a very useless way of thinking, and detrimental at best. No one that has that power is going to delete 10,000 questions wholesale because a tag they have is less than useful for categorizing questions. The tag isn't off-topic, nor does it indicate off-topic content, it just isn't very good.
    – user4639281
    Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 20:57
  • @TinyGiant "No one that has that power is going to delete 10,000 questions wholesale" [citation needed]
    – Braiam
    Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 22:41
  • I dont understand the downvotes. This is a good answer
    – rpax
    Commented Mar 20, 2017 at 23:36

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .