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There's a network-wide policy for mods in (Interim) Policy on AI-content detection reports that states:

[...] it is expected that if the CM team reaches out to contact a moderator to discuss an action, the moderator will be able to provide the heuristics used to make the determination at that time, so that the CM can effectively double-check and/or explain the action.

I've seen some posts deleted by non-mods- posts that I suspect to be in violation of the AI-generated-content policy, and which I suspect the deletion-voters voted to delete for the same reason. Many of those deletion-voters are not currently members of the AI Heuristics SOfT (and therefore, probably not aware of what the approved heuristics are for mods to delete things). I'm soon reaching 20k rep, and have sometimes considered joining them. Since I'd rather ask for permissions than forgiveness, and avoid a situation where such deletions go unnoticed for a long time, and then suddenly it hits the company's radar, and we get an overly-restrictive edict handed down from above and community-company relations hit record/near-record lows (again),

Is there any such expectation for non-mods that they be able to point to an approved strong heuristic or multiple approved weak heuristics if asked to?

Or perhaps phrased differently / expanded: Under what conditions is a non-mod allowed to vote to delete content for suspicion of violating the AI-generated-content policy?

And if there is such an expectation / conditions, how would a user who doesn't follow them be dealt with in response to each "offence"?

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  • 10
    Imo the whole AI stuff is not that relevant for deletion, it's still "posts that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be deleted", and if you copy-paste crap code generated by GenAI then that's unlikely to be of lasting value. If you find actual valuable content but have a suspicion it's GenAI generated, I think closing/deleting it is a bad idea. Generally, GenAI doesn't provide good content, so you may be wrong, or it may only be GenAI assisted and user-corrected.
    – Erik A
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 8:57
  • 9
    I think there is a box for posting answers a bit further down.
    – yivi
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 9:00
  • 3
    On a related issue: How should reviewers deal with (obvious) ChatGPT answers in the Low Quality Answers queue? I just (very reluctantly) gave a whole bunch of them a "Looks OK" verdict, because they didn't meet the criteria (as I see them) for being NAA/VLQ. But I really don't like doing that. (Maybe a separate Meta question?) Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 17:33
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    @AdrianMole skip after opening in another tab where you can downvote and flag.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 19:05
  • @AdrianMole not an answer to your question, but slightly related: I worry that ChatGPT answers could currently be too tricky for use in review audits
    – starball
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 20:49
  • We can also play it safe while purging AI content. If you see an AI answer, it's probably posted on a new question (because that's where all the yummy unicorn points are). Instead of deleting the answer, flag it, then close the whole page (most new pages are dupes or off-topic anyhow), then vote to delete the page. This way SE cannot finger you when they take a hard stance on allowing AI pollutants. Just flank the problem and curate harder. Commented Mar 14 at 10:33

6 Answers 6

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With apologies to starball, who has waited more than their fair share of time for me to respond... Let’s think about this one in a bit more depth, as a fun exercise. Here are the core facts, ex ante information we need to come to a conclusion.

  • Dalija writes, “[regular] users are not bound by moderator agreement nor approved heuristics.” This is true.

  • Thom A writes, “[if] you encounter content you think is AI generated content, flag it using a custom moderator flag; we all know this is what you should be doing.” This is also true.

  • Delete votes remove the content from public view but, even when correctly cast, do not close the feedback loop and inform the author of a possible violation of standards.

  • As a matter of ‘sound policy’, casting delete votes without a solid reason to do so is a misuse of the trust placed in you with your access to moderator tools.

  • Spam is typically easy to verify. However, when it becomes difficult to adjudicate or requires a more comprehensive approach to review, such as when tech blogs seed their blog links, it’s recommended to flag for moderator attention, so a moderator can perform a longer evaluation of what’s taking place. (Spam flags, luckily, can serve a dual purpose here, but are imperfect as they may be cleared when a post is deleted.)

  • GPT and other LLM usage is typically not easy to verify; it can be shown definitively in a select number of cases but the vast majority are not readily verifiable with the tools available to regular users.

It’s synthesis time.

What can we say about flagging? Very easy - you should do it. Regular users do not have access to the policy (including the list of approved strong and weak heuristics) nor the moderation tools required to close the loop on conduct feedback. LLM usage is a situation that frequently requires clear, direct, and explicit conduct feedback. Deletion alone does not present as a long-term solution.

What can we say about deletion? Very hard. Let’s split this in two: deletion, under the belief that delete votes are typically very accurate (call it 95%+ accuracy); and deletion, under the belief that delete votes are not typically very accurate (do not meet 95%+ accuracy). I’m playing a little with the numbers here, but it bears out.

So, deletion, when votes are very accurate: In this scenario, a deletion vote may serve to delay some incorrect or unverified information from being consumed by a lay-user, if and only if the answer accrues enough votes to actually be removed. Enough deletion votes may save moderators a little bit of time when performing evaluation, or remove posts when moderators may not be able to act due to a lack of evidence. The benefit here is not overwhelming, but there is certainly utility.

And, deletion, when votes are not very accurate: In this scenario, a deletion vote will risk removal of answers that do not deserve to be removed. This risks impairing the knowledge base, levying misconduct allegations against honest contributors, and ultimately earning the site a reputation for false accusations (or, perhaps, worsening the one that already exists). There is only a benefit here insofar as one is willing to trade away honest contributors to quash the LLM problem – and I would strenuously argue that this site cannot afford to drive away honest contributors at the moment. Consider also that LLM posts look a lot like good content for the site, and it is a reasonable guess that if there are mistakes, they may hit folks who are very good at writing answers for the site first.


Here’s my recommendation. First, you should be flagging these situations when you see them regardless of what happens - to close the loop on conduct feedback, mods need to know.

Assuming you’ve already flagged, then the upside of a delete vote is that it could save moderators a smidge of time specifically at the step of going through and clicking the ‘delete’ button on a user’s content, and potentially delete an unknown amount of content that would otherwise not be removed. The downsides are that if we’re overestimating how good folks are at this task, and folks aren’t exceptionally good at this, it’s playing with fire over future contributors. We don’t really know for certain how many such delete votes are accurate, and LLM posts can look a hell of a lot like good content for the site. And if it turns out, in the end, that your delete votes are among the set of votes that had negative ramifications for an honest user’s participation, that outcome falls on you to own. On top of this, evaluating and casting delete votes on every one of a user’s posts takes a significant amount of your time, and only does anything if several other people with the privilege also see it and choose to do something about it.

So, honestly, I’d really recommend not casting delete votes on this content - just flag it. It’s safer, it’s easier, and it takes less of your time. Focus on the curation work that has impact at scale, and leave draining the lake to the folks with tools larger than a spoon. (Or join the work on detection at scale, and help build a bigger spoon.)

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    You answer is focusing on the deleting posts that could be good content. However, plenty of AI posted content is bad and incorrect and subject matter experts can recognize it, even if it may look good (well written) to non experts. So I would rephrase your final recommendation, that people don't cast delete votes unless they have a very good reason to do that (beyond answer being suspected AI).
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 15:24
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    @DalijaPrasnikar Yeah, I'll concur with that.
    – Slate StaffMod
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 15:25
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    "if [...] folks aren’t exceptionally good at this" - guess why I've been asking if I can see the results of my AI-detection mod survey submission :D
    – starball
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 17:15
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    the main thing that this leaves unsatisfying to me is that there are posts which match heuristics that aren't approved yet (still going through the thorough testing process- you probably know the one(s) I'm talking about) and that mods can't handle yet, and there's no clear estimate of when their testing is going to finish (or even start). don't get me wrong- I'm incredibly grateful to have you at the helm of the heuristic testing process. it continues to be a real blessing to have you, but to put it bluntly (and I think you'll agree), you're just one you, and it's taking a long time.
    – starball
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 17:21
  • 1
    Or to put differently, you say to leave it to folks with a bigger spoon, but as a member of the AI Heuristics working group, and a highly active flagger (roughly 20% of all pending AI flags are mine (over 1.2k out of over 5.1k)), it's clear that the mods' spoons are not big enough. See also meta.stackoverflow.com/q/427085/11107541. For this answer to be satisfying, their spoons would need to get bigger right away (heuristic approvals).
    – starball
    Commented Nov 13, 2023 at 7:50
  • 2
    I'm serious when I say that it seems to me that it would be more effective right now for non-mods to coordinate delete votes, which is just a disappointing situation to be in. And to that end, you haven't answered my question of what expectations there are from the company for non-mods casting delete votes on AI-generated content, and what the repercussions/punishments are for not following those expectations. Could you please address those concerns of mine?
    – starball
    Commented Nov 13, 2023 at 7:52
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    @starball I'm empathetic to the sense of urgent need for something to do about this situation. I get the desperation. At the same time, I really have to dissuade you from taking the vigilante's path. I think the risks are severe, and have already been shown to be quite serious. I understand that what you want from me is to lay down the law: expectation, policy, punishment; and I can't help but feel it's because you are considering taking that risk on personally.
    – Slate StaffMod
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:43
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    But that way lies bitter anger, strife, and reopening old wounds - no matter how it goes. I don't want that to happen. So I am asking you, & folks here, not to do this, because I think it's the right decision.
    – Slate StaffMod
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:43
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    I absolutely agree with your stance here (it's the same stance I've presented) but it's certainly problematic that so many of these flags remain unactioned as of today. The initial push for deletion of AI content by regular users was during the "strike" when moderators weren't handling AI flags at all. Unfortunately, due to (waves arms around wildly) AI related flags still aren't being handled at a rate that is making a significant dent in the backlog of ai content flags... so in effect the original reason people turned to casting delete votes hasn't been resolved. (cont...)
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:56
  • I don't mean to justify delete votes being cast, but, resolving the underlying issue would likely help people come around to agreeing with this stance.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:56
  • @KevinB You're probably right as a matter of pure pragmatism. At some point, I suspect, folks are going to need to step back and ask the question, "What do we want out of the situation? Is it achievable (how do we know?), and can its success be measured?" -- but, I can't be the one to raise discussions of that type. The only thing I can do personally is to try and make time in my heavily impacted schedule to evaluate candidate heuristics. Such is life.
    – Slate StaffMod
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 20:05
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Regular users are not bound by moderator agreement nor approved heuristics. We can delete AI answers (or any other) solely based on our own judgement, regardless whether we are members of AI heuristics team or not.

When casting delete vote on AI generated post, it is also advisable to flag it with a custom mod flag. Such flags don't age and can be cast on deleted posts. This will make it easier to deal with users that post AI, once AI heuristics for moderators is updated.

Is it possible to make mistakes? Yes it is, just like moderators can make them.

But the overall issue is that when moderators have their hands tied, regular users will take moderation in their own hands. Can it get ugly that way? Yes it can, but that is not our problem, SE created this one, and if they want to solve it, they know how - give moderators more power to deal with the problem faster.

While the moderation strike is over and there has been an agreement in how to proceed, moderators are still rather restricted in their ability to handle most of the AI posts.

And as long as regular users can see that plenty of AI generated posts are not removed fast enough, we will be incentivized to take matters into our own hands. Leaving such posts for a prolonged period of time can have serious impact on the site quality and cause irreparable damage as users posting crap AI posts gain undeserved reputation which gives them access to various reputation bound privileges.

For anyone that think their post has been unjustly deleted, they can come here on Meta and ask about that specific post. Again, mistakes can happen and we are here to correct them.


I would also like to urge people that comment on AI posts or otherwise discuss them to avoid commenting on all AI heuristics, no matter how obvious it is or not, as this inevitably makes moderating AI posts harder.

9

If you encounter content you think is AI generated content, flag it using a custom moderator flag; we all know this is what you should be doing.

As for voting to delete, I disagree with this stance; it is the moderators role to be dealing with those who break the rules of the community. They have the tools to deal with it, they can reach out to the user with a mod message, and can also impose restrictions on the account (such as suspensions) when needed. A mod-deleted post also cannot be undeleted by the community, it must be undeleted by a moderator. Therefore if the user feels that it's been incorrectly handled they have to communicate with the mods, who again are the correct people to handle it. Most likely the user has been reached out to by the moderator team so they already have an avenue open.

This stance doesn't just exist for AI-generated content though. Spam and plagiarism are other examples; you should be flagging to such content not voting to delete it. Deleting the content doesn't make the moderator team aware of the user breaking the rules and doesn't put a "red mark" against them should they continue to break the rules.

If we just vote to delete AI-Generated content then, likely, these user will continue to post the content (especially as some are users with 1,000's of reputation points and thus are unlikely to end up with an answer ban/rate-limit). We, as users, cannot stop another user from posting nor can we, in an "official" capacity tell a user to stop. To repeat myself, that is the role of the moderators (we elected). We trust them to enforce the rules, and so we should be allowing them to do so.

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    But any custom flags on the post will stay even if the post is deleted. They have to be handled by a mod specifically.
    – Laurel
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 14:31
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    If only SE would have the same level of trust in moderators as we do.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 14:31
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    Point of casting delete vote is dealing with most problematic posts fast. It should be accompanied with custom mod flag.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 14:46
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I'm in a similar situation as Starball, with access to the approved heuristics and nearing (although Starball has now surpassed) 20k. I believe I am very good at identifying AI answers (and Starball is as well).

That said, even when I do hit 20k, I do not plan to vote-to-delete answers purely on the basis an answer being AI-assisted. There are several reasons for this, but all are rooted in the fact that a community-deleted answer does not (automatically) get a Mod-review:

  • Without a Mod-review, user-action is not taken. As @Slate mentioned, they "do not close the feedback loop and inform the author of a possible violation of standards."

    When Mods confirm AI content, the typical action is to warn the user on the first offense, and suspend at escalating levels based on future occurrences. If an answer is deleted by the community, without Mod-review, this doesn't happen.

    If you are going to vote-to-delete based on your suspicion of an answer being AI, then please also flag the answer for a Mod to review, so that they can take the appropriate Moderator action as well.

  • Related to the above, I personally maintain a spreadsheet of answers that I suspect of being AI (nearing 10k answers now). I only have time to flag a small fraction of these. When I find that an answer in my list has been community-removed, I'm unsure if a Moderator has had the chance to review and issue user action, so I'm not sure how much time to spend validating heuristics for a Flag.

    This might be solvable if Moderators undeleted/re-deleted answers after they reviewed them and took action, but this is an extra step that's unlikely to happen.

  • Even as good as I believe I am at identifying AI-assisted answers, nobody's perfect, and I appreciate having the extra layer of review/verification. I might not always agree with the conclusion, and I can always reflag and discuss with more information if so.

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    I always* mod flag :) (*unless I need to go to bed and happen to stumble on a big pile)
    – starball
    Commented Nov 7, 2023 at 17:08
0

Part of the problem is that a mod flag may not actually solve anything in practice. Those flags are a significant amount of effort for mods to actually handle and in many cases there's a big gap between being sure something is AI content and being able to take action on it.

Those gaps lead to frustration both for mods and for the established users who see the bad content and don't understand why it isn't being removed.

Some of these answers can be deleted for other reasons like "Not an answer". But some are just bad to mediocre answers that do make a tangential effort to address the actual question. Even if not deleted, they tend to get heavily downvoted which is also going to be an unhappy experience for an "innocent" user. Normal users take all sorts of things into account when deciding whether to downvote and nothing we say here is going to stop them.

Ultimately this comes down to what sort of false negative:false positive ratio we want to tolerate. If a trusted user does vote to delete an answer partly on the basis of a suspicion that it's AI generated, then there's some risk that it's unfair - but does that outweigh the costs of leaving the content up? Those users are part of the content curation ecosystem and I think we should allow them to exercise their judgement.

-16

Help page for trusted user privilege states:

When should I vote to delete an answer?

You may vote to delete answers in the following cases:

  • The answer is extremely low quality: There is little to no scope for improvement
  • The answer doesn't attempt to answer the question; it may be a comment or a separate question altogether.

Since answer suspected of being ChatGPT-generated qualifies for neither of these cases (at least usually), casting a vote to delete such answers on a regular basis can probably be considered an abuse of the delete privilege.

I would advise you against such practice: keep flagging those answers for moderation attention, and let this problem to be tackled in centralized manner.

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    AI posts clearly violate quoting guidelines and can be considered as plagiarism, so deleting them on that basis would not be a problem.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 9:40
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    @DalijaPrasnikar, well, this is debatable. For example, mods advised against flagging such answers as plagiarism. Additionally, plagiarism is also not a valid reason to cast a delete vote: you are expected to flag plagiarized content.
    – markalex
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 9:44
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    I said "can be considered as plagiarism". I know that actual plagiarism is handled differently.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 9:49
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    "Can be considered as plagiarism", as oppose to plagiarism, doesn't feel like valid deletion reason, nor like an honest position. More like a clever way to bend rules.
    – markalex
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 9:57
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    There is no bending rules. stackoverflow.com/help/gpt-policy states that AI posts violate referencing policy and consequently anything that is posted and written by AI must be marked as such. If it is not it violates the rules and deleting such posts is justified as you have a valid reason to cast delete vote. There are also plenty of posts on Meta that talk about quoting requirements so it is not like there is no consensus on that part. Also AI posts are explicitly forbidden on site and the only issue now is that moderators don't have fully free hands in detecting them.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 10:16
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    a suspected ChatGPT answer generally can be edited into a good answer, and it is usually an attempt to answer the question. Downvote, flag, and leave the super downvote in the toolbox.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 14:34
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    ".. answers suspected of being ChatGPT-generated qualifies for neither of these cases" - EVERY ANSWER I have ever suspected of being generated by ChatGPT has been extremely low quality. How does anyone conclude anything generated by ChatGPT isn't low quality? "Additionally, plagiarism is also not a valid reason to cast a delete vote" - I can easily confirm if something is plagiarism, plagiarized content, is low quality content. I can easily justify voting to delete low quality content. If a user is going to plagiarize and/or submit ChatGPT content, I am not going to try and improve them. Commented Aug 29, 2023 at 21:00
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    @KevinB Edited by whom? Users posting AI answers usually don't have a clue about what they are posting. How could they edit such answers. Also most of the time those answers miss being actual answer to the question by a mile. There is nothing worth editing there. And we are not going to bend over backwards just to salvage someone's desire for fast and easy reputation even in those cases where answer can accidentally be salvaged.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 6:44
  • 1
    @DalijaPrasnikar whoever feels like it? if it doesn't get edited and meets the heuristics, it'll get deleted by mods anyway. I'd rather leave the deletion of this kind of content to mods, given how rude some of the comments i've seen under suspected chatgpt posts are on posts that aren't even gpt generated. We don't need vigilante justice, we have mods for dealing with this.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 17:53
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    @KevinB I wouldn't advise editing suspected AI answers because this makes moderators job harder. Under normal circumstances I would also leave deleting such posts to moderators, but we are still not fully back to normal operations, and some posts deserve to be removed sooner rather than later.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 19:06
  • @DalijaPrasnikar, can you explain which posts need to be deleted sooner rather than later? And why simple downvoting by at least three people is not enough for them?
    – markalex
    Commented Aug 30, 2023 at 19:10
  • @markalex Depends on situation. Maybe in some instances merely downvoting would be enough. One of the issues with AI posts is that they look good on the surface, so not once I have seen AI posts being upvoted for no reason, along with people wondering why it has been downvoted and possibly even counteracting the downvote with upvote without assessing the answer. This is most problematic on questions with bounty where such answers could end up being rewarder by a bounty instead of competing answers written by humans, that just does not sound as elaborate. Of course, this is not the only reason.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 31, 2023 at 11:22
  • I see deleting some of AI posts by regular users just aa a temporary measure until moderators both catch up with pending flags and until they get updated heuristics that will allow them to moderate majority of AI posts.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 31, 2023 at 11:28
  • @DalijaPrasnikar, in case of bounty mod deletion of awarded answer will revert bounty. In case of a couple of erroneous upvotes - I don't see how it is an urgent problem requiring immediate actions in form of deletion, and why it cannot wait for mods to delete it later.
    – markalex
    Commented Aug 31, 2023 at 11:53
  • Yes, mod deletion would remove the bounty, but if there was another answer it will not get rewarded to that other answer that deserves it. Erroneous upvotes can be a problem when answer is wrong. There are many reasons why we vote to delete answers and AI answers can also be deleted for all those reasons, too.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 31, 2023 at 12:25

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