-294

Thank you all for voicing your feedback and your concerns regarding the test of the Reactions feature.

We would like first to give some additional background surrounding the intentions around this feature, and make things more clear than they were in the first post: Finding a way to allow users to say “thank you” without using a comment is something that we do want to address through this feature. But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users, using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

Admittedly, this is a feature that may not appeal to some users and may find more adoption among those who have less experience on Stack Overflow. That said, we do want to make sure that if it is adopted, it will be done so in a way that will maximize benefit across the site, while preventing any negative effects to existing network practices and norms.

To address some concerns that were voiced thus far: Voting and its proper use as a means of giving feedback continues to be extremely important. This feature (in any way that it may eventually manifest itself) is not intended to replace voting or lessen its use, and a large amount of our analysis after the test will be aimed at ensuring this.

To that end, here are some of the things that we are monitoring during the test, and that we intend on analyzing after the test is concluded:

  • How has the introduction of the “thanks” reaction impacted voting?
  • How has the introduction of the “thanks” reaction impacted commenting?
  • How has the introduction of the “thanks” reaction impacted other actions (e.g. asking, answering, editing)?
  • What types of users are most likely to leave “thanks” comments? Do we see a reduction in “thank you” comments from users who have the “thanks” reaction?
  • When would users typically use a reaction versus voting?
  • How often do users upvote multiple answers on one question and is this affected by the “thanks”?
  • How many reactions overlap the post creator saying thanks for someone suggesting an improvement to their post - "Thanks for your comment, I've clarified that point"
  • How many meet the one-flag deletion RegEx
  • How many comments that include "thanks" are the sort that both says "thanks" but also ask for clarification or states an issue with the answer? These are valid comments. E.g. "Thanks for helping out with this - I'm not able to get it working, is there a step I'm missing, here are the new results I'm getting"
  • How many comments are paired with upvotes vs not?

We have seen and are cataloging the feedback and suggestions given already relating to ways and reasons that this feature might or might not work in achieving its goals. And we are keeping an open mind about functionality here — the current manifestation of the feature (including even the two images currently being tested) is in no way final. Ideas related to experimenting with the placement of the button or prompting users to give an upvote if they give a reaction without voting are great. Please keep them coming!

We are also considering ways to allow appreciation that is given (through reactions or otherwise) to be surfaced more easily to the recipient (without abusing notifications), as well as to find ways to strengthen and improve user education around the proper use of voting and comments.

Lastly, we would like to confirm here that the current iteration of the Thank you Reaction feature will be turned off at the conclusion of the current test (on July 17), while we analyze the data and consider the different feedback that has been given, to find the best way forward.


Update: As promised, the experiment has ended, and the Reactions feature has now been disabled on Stack Overflow.

21
  • 77
    But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users --> but why?? do we really need an alternative to voting? ... using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet. --> other sites are forums and social websites, SO is not one of them. Am I wrong? Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 8:41
  • 76
    Why is there an attempt to make users feel like they are on a familiar forum, when the community goal is to make them understand that they are not? It seems that there a very conflicting interests here.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 8:46
  • 39
    "Lastly, we would like to confirm here that the current iteration of the Thank you Reaction feature will be turned off " - thank you! +1
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 9:39
  • 19
    We don't need to show appreciation because this not a helpdesk. We don't value user effort or the time spent to write answer. We value the content of posts. If the content is good/useful/answer the question, you upvote it. If the content is bad/irrelevant/doesn't answer the question, you downvote it. If appreciation is needed, why we don't do it for questions? Asking question is the first step that allow people to provide good answers so we also need thanks to question, let's not forget a thanks to editors for their effort to make posts better, etc .. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 10:00
  • 6
    I think @tripleee inadvertently showed why such a feature could be useful, but also why this implementation doesn't work: Reacting to one specific part of the post instead of upvoting it as a whole.
    – Izkata
    Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 16:52
  • 8
    @Izkata In fact it was very much on purpose, but thanks for spelling it out.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 16:58
  • 2
    Can the "thanks" just trigger an automatic identified upvote, or convert someone's upvote into an identified one? A bare upvote without "thanks" would still be anonymous.
    – jxh
    Commented Jul 8, 2020 at 23:57
  • 10
    Can we have a "face-palm" link for those questions where the OP really just hasn't bothered to engage their brain instead?
    – Liam
    Commented Jul 9, 2020 at 14:25
  • 13
    How about just prepending the word "Thanks! " to the upvote tooltip? Commented Jul 9, 2020 at 14:56
  • 11
    Looking forward to this being turned off - hope I'll never see it again
    – 4386427
    Commented Jul 15, 2020 at 20:03
  • 11
    Thanks for rolling back the Thanks reaction. Much appreciated - thanks again. Commented Jul 19, 2020 at 10:11
  • 3
    @Scratte because I only noticed that after I turned it off yesterday, and the PR for fixing that still needs to be approved. Patience please.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jul 20, 2020 at 12:17
  • 2
    @YaakovEllis I understand. Thank you for telling us :)
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 20, 2020 at 12:23
  • 5
    Understandably, it will take some time to analyze the data and I don't think it is expected to share everything with us, but are you planning to share a summary of those analysis with the community? Commented Jul 20, 2020 at 20:54
  • 2
    @M--: According to this blog post about the Q3 2020 Roadmap: "This quarter, we will be reviewing the outcomes of this test, sharing results with the community, and deciding on next steps."
    – V2Blast
    Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 7:52

37 Answers 37

365

But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users

But why? Do we really need an alternative to voting?

using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

Other sites are forums and social websites, Stack Overflow is not one of them. Am I wrong?

21
  • 20
    I would not call this an alternative to voting. It is an additional way to interact with the post. Voting is a way of saying if something is useful or not. A reaction is a way of telling the poster: "thanks, this helped me". To many on meta these two are synonymous. From what we have heard, to many others they are not. It is not necessarily a need. The site will exist without it. But it has the potential to let users personally of personally expressing gratitude (as others have noticed, the identities of those who leave reactions are not hidden, unlike votes).
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:51
  • 124
    @YaakovEllis isn't "thanks, this helped me" synonymous to "+1, this is useful"? If it helped someone, it's useful, innit?
    – Adriaan
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:56
  • 71
    @YaakovEllis "thanks, this helped me". --> if an answer is helpful then it deserve an upvote or accepted answer. I still don't understand why creating an additional way to interact. Doing this will need us more effort to explain to people when to use the upvote, the downvote, the thanks, the accepted, the comment, etc ... Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:59
  • 60
    I think if this feature is shipped then the thanks have to involve an automatic upvote. When someone thinks an answer helped him and the person wants to say thanks, it implicitly was useful and therefore worth an upvote. If someone thinks an answer is useful (from a neutral perspective) but the person doesn't feel like it helps him (subjective), the post can be just normally upvoted. I think this would reflect better the character of a post and will reduce complexity of the system and make it more robust. Without, thanks would add a weird facette to the QA character of SO + complexity.
    – akuzminykh
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:28
  • 13
    @akuzminykh ^ TL;DR from what you said: we only need the upvote and the thanks is useless (since it will automatically involve the upvote and we no more need user to say thanks) Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:35
  • 5
    @akuzminykh couple of things though: 1) the upvote would no longer be anonymous, 2) that'd skew the distribution towards upvotes, as there are now 2 ways to upvote and just 1 to downvote, 3) you should be able to "upvote" only once, not twice, i.e. upvoting, than thanking should not incur the associated upvote, nor should you be able to upvote once you have thanked (colour the arrow already orange or something)
    – Adriaan
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:39
  • 42
    @YaakovEllis "To many on meta these two are synonymous." Not just "many on meta". The site tour and help page on voting themselves tell us that voting is how to show thanks and indicate content is good/helpful. It should be the expectation that everyone on the site understand this. I think it would be more effective to focus efforts on teaching people this rather than trying to introduce another, less effective/less meaningful way to do it.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:28
  • 2
    I see no reason not to make the site more intuitive to new users.
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:36
  • 49
    This Thank you feature is not useful. Now I noticed people are giving me thanks reaction rather than upvotes. I want upvotes. My reputation will not increase if it keeps happening. And In the mobile web version, thanks rection is not showing.
    – Ahwar
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 15:51
  • 7
    @YaakovEllis "From what we have heard, to many others they are not." That's interesting. It looks like there are some people who find content here useful even though it didn't help them or found content not useful that however helped them. I would like to know more about these cases and under which circumstances they happen. Maybe the numbers after the experiments can tell which content is useful but not helpful or that is helpful but not useful. I think it should ideally be both, but maybe there are good reasons for being one and not the other. Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 11:39
  • 7
    "Other sites are forums and social websites, Stack Overflow is not one of them. Am I wrong?" <-- You aren't wrong. Maybe StackOverflow will change into SocialOverflow, with these changes. And locking the posts so we can't comment shows that StackOverflow (the company) doesn't give any slight consideration to what the users say. All I see is empty words and locked posts... If StackOverflow (the company) listens to us, they would stop converting the website into social networks. Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 13:21
  • 3
    "Am I wrong", I'd say yes. Even specific for developers, even if you might not be able to send direct messages, or to "friend" someone else, it still is, by any standard, a social network. Obviously, and hopefully, Stack Overflow has unique features and guidelines that make it Stack Overflow. Maybe the problem is that it starts to look more like others social network, that one may or may not like / despise.
    – Pac0
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 11:03
  • 2
    @ZKubota "desire to be able to communicate gratitude/usefulness" But isn't there already the upvote button? Maybe the tooltip for the upvote button could just be extended to include thanks. I would also say that communicating gratitude and usefulness is not strictly necessary. The number of visits of a question in conjunction with a contribution's score already tells you how many people likely profited from a contribution. The number of thanks created by the new button is just another estimate of that. Commented Jul 6, 2020 at 7:21
  • 3
    @ZKubota you only need 15Rep to upvote. You start at 1Rep so you only need 14Rep. Something you can easily get with the smallest effort possible: you simply do 7 edits and you are done, or one Good answer and you done too. We expect from new users few effort in order to be able to fully participate an earn privileges. Commented Jul 6, 2020 at 7:56
  • 1
    @Trilarion One reason that a post may receive an Upvote, but not a Thanks, is if the voter thinks it is good and informative for the question asked, but not something that actually helps them specifically. (e.g. if 2 users post different but equally valid solutions to a problem on SO, they may Upvote each other - the other answer is good and helpful - but not Thank each other - they themselves did not receive any "help" from the post). On the other hand, I can see no situation in which you would Thank a post without Upvoting it, so perhaps it should be an "Upvoted-because-it-helped-me" Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58
236

To me, the new feature is kind of just insulting.

I imagine a lot of time went into it already, and a lot more time will go into it still. I hope the result of all this is that the feature is scrapped and is never returned. Which means that the energy spent on it is at best wasted, but at worst made to not be in vain with the unfortunate result of keeping the feature.

There are so many that aim to help new users, help "young" users (like me), help everyone and help elected moderators. I do not understand why time is spent on a thank-you feature, when there are other, in my opinion, pressing matters.

Examples:

I think new users need better guidance to how the site works, not better ways to make them feel like they don't have to invest their time in finding out how it works, i.e. feeling like this is just another familiar site. Incidentally I find it to be a little puzzling that they would find the site to be easier to understand with yet another feature.

So, I asked Why is there an attempt to make users feel like they are on a familiar forum, when the community goal is to make them understand that they are not? It seems that there a[re] very conflicting interests here. in a comment.

..Or perhaps I missed the point completely and it was just a means of gathering data on both the meta crowd and information about user confusing and it was never meant for anything other than a test. If that's the case, then at least you're not lacking data :)

13
  • 41
    No insult is intended. If it makes you feel better, most of the time invested in this feature was already put in to making this work on SO for Teams, where it has met a lot of success (and we know that the use cases are different for Teams and the Public Platform).
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:55
  • 23
    The fact that we are working on one feature over another doesn't mean that the other features are not ones that we think are important. Guidance for new users on how the site works is something that is definitely one of our goals to achieve. And this feature would not be intended to absolve users from having to invest the time in learning how to use the site properly. However, while all of these are interrelated, we cannot accomplish them simultaneously. And your points about the potential to make things more complicated are on target: this is definitely something that we want to avoid.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:59
  • 32
    @YaakovEllis - I am starting to feel like answer evangelist :) Scratte's concern, as I understand it (seemingly shared by many others and, personally, me) is that every feature needs a certain amount of resources allocated which could have been placed better in the first place. No one (hopefully) argues that other features are not important are not considered important but that everything has a cost. Of your time, of our time, etc... Even if it was developed for Teams, it still needs someone to post announcements, respond to feedback, do the research, etc - all that I am sure you know of..
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:43
  • 8
    @OlegValter thanks for your evangelism. And I understand all about the opportunity cost involved in something like this very well (as right now I am typing here instead of in Visual Studio). That said, I hear your concerns and understand the frustration. I know that many of you might have prioritized items for our roadmap differently than has been done. We will try to continue to balance the different concerns and priorities as best we can moving forward.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:50
  • 5
    @YaakovEllis - that was meant as a joke (I hope your comment was as well - it is a bit hard to discern in comment format). To wrap up my previous comment as you responded faster than I finished: ..." we cannot accomplish them simultaneously" is precisely on point, I could not agree with you more. And this exactly what is concerning the most - out of all features that could be developed, venues explored or discussed this was the one deemed worthy to be developed however small the actual time/effort or financial cost may be. This is less about prioritizing and more about not taking that route...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:03
  • ...in the first place. That said, thank you for addressing concerns and especially for taking the time to respond to everything - I know how hard it is to even read through everything. Just trying to stress some points where miscommunication might happen resulting in both sides feeling unheard despite best intentions.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:08
  • 4
    @OlegValter development resources are irrelevant to the site owners. We’re talking about people who drop an already working new navigation in favor of an ominous Navigation 3.0, making every spent effort wasted for no good reasons. Such people surely also can afford developing an unneeded “thank you” feature while there’s a long queue of real problems to fix. Why not?
    – Holger
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:38
  • 27
    I agree with this answer; it's a lot of work put into making people feel warm and fuzzy for a moment without addressing the underlying issues. It's a sugar pill for someone who is sick. People may react positively to it, especially in the short term, but that's because it has sugar, not because it's really all that helpful for them. And it certainly isn't helpful.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:35
  • @Holger - well, I haven't been around here then to judge (but aware of the issue) - btw, a visible attempt to gather and address feedback in a way that does not defend the decision is there (which would be a good idea to do here as well) That said, I argued before that for a product team of a very large project a notion of "ideation -> research -> prototype -> interview -> rollout -> announce" flow may sound like second nature very hard to fight - I sincerely hope, though, that the community pushback helps change it and that reaching the point when this becomes visible may take years...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 21:05
  • 6
    @YaakovEllis Thank you for replying. I didn't mean to say that I've been directly insulted by anyone. I haven't. I honestly appreciate your post here, even if I'm not fond of the feature. I only meant to convey that I would personally have been more fond of your resources being spent on what I believe to be more fruitful features. Please do not take this post of mine as anything other than that.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 8:06
  • 6
    @YaakovEllis Do you want to elaborate more on how the "thank you" reaction has achieved "a lot of success" in the context of Teams. That may help the community understand its advantages.
    – Autonomous
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 8:06
  • @TylerH sugar is addictive. "And it certainly isn't helpful", from whose perspective? For the person in need of help and people who care, no it is not. For people who just want to keep that person around, it is most certainly helpful. medium.com/rta902/… Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 17:45
  • @M-- I'm not sure what your comment is saying. You're arguing neurological/physical addiction is a good thing?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 8, 2020 at 21:20
180

using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

Dear Stack Overflow, you are a leader, not a follower. The fact that you are a leader means SO has a harsh trek ahead, since it has been untraveled. Stack Exchange is not only the most successful Q&A site, it is the Q&A site. Solutions to problems that affect these sites can't come from bug trackers (GitHub, Bugzilla) nor social networks or discussion forums (Discord, Discourse, Facebook, Twitter, Twitch Chat, etc.); but others in the industry will look up to Stack Exchange to apply solutions to their own sites (if you visit a Q&A site, how different is the look and feel?).

What bothered me the most was that despite the fact that there have been successful mechanisms to prevent and handle comment content by your own metrics (the +/-1 ban, the "nice" bot), you decided to abandon these tested methods, which demonstrated to be effective at obtaining the desired effect (fewer undesirable comments). Why?

5
  • 3
    Thanks for your point about being a leader and not a follower. As I tried to express above, the goal of moving gratitude out of comments is not the only one here. Also, simply preventing the thank you comments leaves folks without a way to satisfactorily express that feeling. Net neutral or negative. Reactions can potentially give an outlet for that feeling.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:10
  • 120
    @YaakovEllis when SO prevented placing +/-1 comments, giving up was a successful metric. The message that is there right now inform the users of what the desired behavior should be. You can still leverage that to tell users "hey, our way of saying thank you is via votes ;)"
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:13
  • 3
    @YaakovEllis - just another observation: "net neutral or negative" is also an assumption that needs careful study as you are stating intent as a matter of fact. Also, and I think this is one of the main reasons for the feature to be met so negatively - it assumes that lack of expression of a feeling of a question asker while sidestepping feelings of question answerer. Preemptive note: my strong belief is that assumptions have to be raised from observations, not observations to be made on a basis of assumptions. The fact that reactions can potentially give such an outlet...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:33
  • 2
    ...does not necessarily mean they are a good solution (or any solution for that matter). Also regarding preventing: I understand that this is the response to @Braiam's statement about prevention mechanisms, but I must point out that these mechanisms may be suggestive, gently nudging commenters in the direction of constructive feedback, upvoting when possible and accepting the answer
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:36
  • 3
    @YaakovEllis I think people post thank-you comments to show identifiable appreciation, an anonymous thank-you button is no different than the upvote button we already use (except for it blocks the reputation reward).
    – Kevin
    Commented Jul 9, 2020 at 11:57
141

One of the main points of criticism on the feature was that it was pushed through to testing phase before being announced, against company policy. Could you please address this as well, in particular how you'll avoid pushing through tests/features before announcing them in the company-approved channels to the general user base?

20
  • 16
    We messed up with our communications and release plan on this one. We are now adding additional steps to our process leading up to the release of new features and tests, to try to avoid the mistakes made this time around. Moving forward, we are going to be asking the question internally "does this require a public announcement" much earlier in the process than had been done previously, and will be planning and vetting these communications more thoroughly as well.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:37
  • 136
    'We messed up with our communications and release plan on this one.' - I can't tell if this is serious anymore... Hasn't this been the story of SO's life for the past 3 years or more?
    – Script47
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:37
  • 81
    I'm just sorry that yet again well-meaning devs like @YaakovEllis have to clean up what's presumably a gross misstep made by management. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:40
  • 15
    @AndrasDeak mistakes happen. We are human. However, we very much try not to lay blame, and rather prefer to try to learn from them for the next time. And while I am a dev on the Public Platform team, in the context of my additional position as Community Advocate, I also want to take an active role in helping to improve our processes and communication for things like this.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:44
  • 43
    @YaakovEllis I don't expect anyone in the company to lay blame (we have the community for that). If I were in a position that I had to clean up after coworkers I wouldn't disclose that I'm cleaning up after coworkers. And I agree, mistakes happen, and we are human. But the frequency with which the management's mistakes have been happening for years suggests that they are either superhuman, or just that nothing has changed about sidelining the community. I'm absolutely sure that you (and Shog, and anyone who cares about the community) would have known how this feature would be received. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:48
  • 16
    @YaakovEllis Surely the "no blame" thing (which I'm fully on board with) becomes meaningless if past mistakes don't provide learning to prevent them happening again. To use Nick's example in the tweet you linked, allowing a dev to make a mistake like that is great, but if they do it every couple of weeks, then there's a far deeper issue.
    – DavidG
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:44
  • 14
    @YaakovEllis Its OK not to lay blame once, or twice, or three times, or four times.... but at some point things need to change. 'we did bad communication, we will add more process' is something I've read a TON from SO. It really starts to loose weight. I personally no longer have faith that this statement carries any value. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 15:18
  • 3
    @DavidsaysReinstateMonica I think what he meant was that we shouldn't expect him to admit that management screwed this up. And we don't. It's unprofessional and unfair to blame others, even if they are indeed to blame. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 15:24
  • 46
    Blame isn't helpful. Accountability is. Yaakov is taking responsibility here, even though I highly doubt he set the schedule or dictated the communication plan... That says a lot about Yaakov's character - and a lot more about the folks whose decisions led to this but who haven't stepped up.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 16:25
  • 31
    Proof of the pudding is in the eating, @yaakov. I've seen this same mistake play out countless times over the years: everyone pulling together to clean up the mess is great, but if it just happens again in a few months then nothing really changed. FWIW, I said essentially the same thing back in February. Let's see how things look by October...
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 17:28
  • 3
    Not sure how to put it, but this blogpost made it sound like there were intentions. Perhaps it's just written in a way that never actually made a promise or any promises.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 19:46
  • 4
    @BSMP (and Scratte): It actually was announced, though in a "But the plans were on display..." sort of way. Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 0:04
  • 4
    @Adriaan The tweet that the Meta post quotes says "New ways of saying 'thanks' will be coming to the Stack Exchange network next year, too." Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 13:20
  • 12
    'we are going to be asking the question internally "does this require a public announcement" much earlier in the process' - for me this comment misses the point and feels like you either don't know the main issue with your current approach or you're willfully ignoring it. Posting "hey, we'll be releasing this crappy feature in two weeks" is a small improvement over "hey, we just released this crappy feature", but you should be posting "hey, we've identified an issue and this is our current plan to deal with it, please give us feedback before we're moving to the implementation phase" instead.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 13:30
  • 9
    Oops, forgot to mention @YaakovEllis above. Also, in case the previous comment was unclear, announcing a feature is the wrong way to go about community engagement. Actual community engagement would be to start a discussion about an identified problem and lay out the current plan to deal with that problem, and then change that plan based on community input. All of that should happen before anything is rolled out and usually also before developing anything that amounts to more than a mockup.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 13:36
92

In my opinion, we already have a key data point that's far more important than the other points outlined here:

The original post announcing it having a net score of under -1000. It's the most disliked post on MSO, ever.

This is an easy, objective, and publicly available metric on how users experience this new feature.

It's truly amazing that even other posts taking away a beloved feature or telling a long-standing and well-respected mod that's resigning that he doesn't know what he's talking about got less downvotes than just a temporary experiment.

Even if somehow this thanks feature was gigantically effective at reducing thanks comments and positively impacted voting, I'd hope you'd still refrain from pushing it through because of the simple reason that the community does not want it.

While the points you've outlined might provide interesting insights for future features, I sincerely hope that you will act on this key metric that's already available for everyone to see.

8
  • 3
    As polygot working across a handful of established tags (python, pandas, r, php, sql, xml, xslt, vba), I have not once seen any use of this new feature. In fact, many tags have a challenge of few upvotes simply due to audience levels as you know @ErikA in ms-access. Thanks comments only come with very popular answers with 500+ upvotes from many years ago. For very new questions on SO with small view counts, random visitors or lurkers beyond OP will likely not use this feature.
    – Parfait
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 16:00
  • 8
    "It's the most disliked post on MSO, ever." - of ones that are not deleted. Some SE posts were rated even lower. Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 20:51
  • 3
    I've seen several uses of this feature, one of these times OP "thanked" the answer he found useful instead of upvoting it
    – svarog
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 5:17
  • 2
    "Even if somehow this thanks feature was gigantically effective at reducing thanks comments and positively impacted voting, I'd hope you'd still refrain from pushing it through because of the simple reason that the community does not want it." That is a rather extreme and perhaps revealing statement.
    – Z Kubota
    Commented Jul 6, 2020 at 0:30
  • 3
    Correction: "This is an easy, objective, and publicly available metric on how meta users experience this new feature". Is it not written that "In no uncertain terms, the .015% of the Stack Overflow community that is on Meta does not speak on behalf of the entire community. They speak on behalf of themselves, and we are listening, but this is not the only place we are listening to"? Commented Jul 8, 2020 at 12:48
  • 1
    I am still willing to be convinced. Sometimes the community could be wrong; if empirical evidence says this is actually effective, then I rather not ignore that. I am sceptical, but I have been wrong in the past.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jul 8, 2020 at 19:16
  • To be convinced, I'd require an analysis into the user experience as well, not just metrics with regards to voting and commenting. Yes, the meta community is not equal to the entire community, even though the 0.015% has been retracted, but the site should not prioritize avoiding thanks comments (which are a minor annoyance at best imo) over providing a good user experience and not overloading the user with up to three actions (upvote + accept + thank) they could take on a good answer on their question, with all slightly different effects which are non-obvious to new users.
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 8, 2020 at 20:00
  • "...key data point... -1000 ...This is an easy, objective, and publicly available metric on how users experience this new feature…" -1000 is anecdotal in comparison with the millions of people using StackOverflow daily. Please consider people debating on Meta (and agreeing/disagreeing on new rules and features) are not representative of StackOverflow users. Most users have no idea Meta even exists. (cc @YaakovEllis)
    – GG.
    Commented Jul 15, 2020 at 18:29
89

using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

What "other sites" are you looking at, to determine we do not use a familiar system?

Social media websites, other tech related forums, a mixture of those, something else? Most tech forums I visit use an upvote/downvote system (or at least just upvotes), which to me seems like the current up/down-vote paradigm is perfectly in line for the kind of website SO is.

If we start comparing Stack Overflow to social media like Twitter or Facebook then yes we aren't in line anymore, but Stack Overflow isn't a social media, and I really hope it never will be.

Also Reddit (arguably one of the most popular sites on the internet) uses an upvote/downvote system, so I really fail to see how Stack Overflow doesn't follow the "paradigm that users are familiar with on the internet".

22
  • 3
    Not claiming here that voting is not a familiar system. Just that being able to personally show your appreciation is something that grants an alternate way of expressing gratitude (as others have noticed, the identities of those who leave reactions are not hidden, unlike votes). The goal here is not to make SO/SE into a social network. But it is a feature that overlaps with some social networks that may also have a good use here.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:39
  • 3
    Trying to say very clearly: voting is important. We need to improve user education on voting. And reactions can also help users to feel appreciated/allow them to show appreciation in ways that voting might not do as well.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:42
  • 79
    @YaakovEllis Trust me, there is no emoji that can show me more appreciation than an upvote can. I have already seen posts being thanked (by people that have sufficient reputation to vote) more times than upvoted and I can only imagine that it must feel extremely frustrating. Why are people thanking more than upvoting? What is wrong with answer that justifies a thanks, but not an upvote? ...
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:57
  • 4
    @DalijaPrasnikar A thanks is personal. An upvote is not. We hope that we can find a way for the two to coexist. And if the data shows that reactions are being used in place of upvotes, this will definitely affect our planning for how/if this can work on the site on a more permanent basis. This may also be an opportunity to improve the education around voting. (It could also be that the reactions are being given by people who would not have voted anyway, and the reaction in this case is not removing upvotes that might have been).
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:03
  • 27
    @YaakovEllis - in all honesty that is a huge assumption to make. Also please note that however problematic "thank you" comments may be, they are more personal than just another button to push. Saying that a bunch of claps (even if "thankers" can be seen in the timeline) on a post is more personal than an upvote or, better yet, an accept is a stretch at best...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:09
  • 2
    @OlegValter yes, it is an assumption. That is what we are testing right now. And yes, a comment is more personal than a reaction tagged with your name. But we do need to weigh the benefits of each scenario: a popular post with 50 "thanks, that helped me" comments makes the comments unusable and is not something that we want to support. The same post with a "thank you" reaction and the number 50 next to it might not be as personal, but it is something. And if this can be potentially leveraged into a way to also encourage upvotes that weren't happening, even better.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:13
  • 59
    @YaakovEllis A thanks is personal --> this will slowly bring us to the side effect of the facebook like. Now I will be checking who is loving me and who is hating me (who never thanked me) and why the OP didn't say thanks to me (I will be hating them ..). Someone is always thanking me (this guy is good, let me give him some upvotes ..). I thanked someone a lot, I need to stop or he will think that I love him too much ... wait, why that user stopped thanking me, let me ping him to see what's happening, etc etc etc Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:13
  • 3
    @YaakovEllis I am completely against this feature for the same reasons as many other have expressed, but if you are going to implement something like this why did you not consider the feelings of people who want to signify "no thanks". They will feel even more left out now :) Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:35
  • 1
    and I forget another case: when someone thanked me and later undo his thanks. I will be hating him a lot and I will also undo all my thanks to him (probably some upvotes too, he doesn't deserve them, impolite guy ..) Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 13:49
  • 82
    @YaakovEllis "A thanks is personal. An upvote is not" This is a red flag to me. Stack Overflow is not a personal site. It is an all-business site. The Tour starts out with "Ask questions, get answers, no distractions. This site is all about getting answers. It's not a discussion forum. There's no chit-chat." It is not personal, nor should it be. Almost all of the user-to-user issues and user-to-company issues are caused by people who take things personally when they shouldn't. Pushing Stack Overflow to be more personal is a mistake.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:42
  • 2
    Stack Overflow was founded on the premise of striving for the greatest common factor: quality and meaningful content with no distraction; doing what you do well and nothing else; respecting a laser-like focus in one field or subject, if you will. Trying to emulate social media is instead catering to humanity's lowest common denominator by opting for the shiny, the vapid, the meaningless.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:44
  • 10
    @YaakovEllis "A thanks is personal. An upvote is not." in the same vein, a thanks is personal, a paycheck is not. An upvote translates into rep increase, the "paycheck" of the site. Haw many times should someone expect "thanks" from administration before they start to feel that there should be a "bonus" in the paycheck? Perhaps this entire discussion belongs on Interpersonal Skills. I've seen lots of assumptions about the "meaning" of this button vs. that button, this combination of actions, etc. Perhaps the legal department needs to be supplemented with a psych dept.
    – Chindraba
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 16:42
  • 3
    It is not personal, nor should it be. As I heard once, there's theoretically no difference between theory and practice; practically there's usually a great divide. Almost all of the user-to-user issues and user-to-company issues are caused by people who take things personally when they shouldn't. True, and another strategy might be to shout this from every line of the landing page and every page in the help center. But people being people, they'll inevitably continue to take things personally; and these reactions perhaps discourage using the comments for taking things personally.
    – Zev Spitz
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 17:13
  • 3
    @Braiam Thank you comments don't hurt anybody... I don't know why there is so much fuss about them. Adding warning when someone tries to write "thank you" should be more than enough to reduce numbers of actual "thank you" comments that don't convey any other meaningful message.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 12:13
  • 3
    @DalijaPrasnikar "comments alone don't actually hurt" and that's precisely what I don't agree with. Thank you comments hurt. Hurt in reduced voting, lower signal to noise ratio, time wasted moderating them (via flags).
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 14:21
59

I'm unconvinced that this explanation has justified whether or not it's acceptable to mutate or modify existing site policy and conventions for the sake of an experiment. To me, in the name of science, we are breaking long-held conventions and policy just to placate to a percentage of the user base who doesn't know how to upvote.

I'll elaborate.

Finding a way to allow users to say “thank you” without using a comment is something that we do want to address through this feature. But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users, using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

I see two problems here.

  1. Why do you want to allow users to say "thanks" without it actually being an upvote? This seems to be the whole thrust of this since I'm uncertain/unconvinced that the "thanks" button links to an upvote or even conveys reputation.
  2. Why does the UX of Stack Overflow have to conform to other sites on the internet who do similar things? I feel like this portion of the experiment is the least justified or explained, since it heavily implies that Stack Overflow wants to start becoming more like a forum or a social media site.

As I've previously stated, we've already got a way to say "thanks", and it's codified in the FAQ on the site as an official policy. Yet here, it's actively being ignored or disregarded in the name of science. Why?

Admittedly, this is a feature that may not appeal to some users and may find more adoption among those who have less experience on Stack Overflow. That said, we do want to make sure that if it is adopted, it will be done so in a way that will maximize benefit across the site, while preventing any negative effects to existing network practices and norms.

Your team hasn't stated what benefits there are to a feature like this. What I'm getting is that there's some angst over some of the functions of the site from new users...

We hope that this test will have a positive impact on our community and reduce:

  • Friction for users whose comments are deleted,
  • The burden on moderators, and
  • The time active users spend flagging/deleting comments.

...but this doesn't speak to a benefit. This speaks more to a change in the existing practices and norms that we have on the site, and I'm not finding a justification for it.

An open question to really answer is, "Why are people more accustomed to saying 'thanks' in comments rather than upvoting?" Providing users with an additional button to show their appreciation doesn't answer the question, and (regrettably) the people that want to show their thanks don't really show much of anything because no one gets any reputation for it.

Reacting to an answer doesn't impact reputation so if you can vote and the answer solves the problem in the question, don't forget to vote as well.

This reminds me of a certain something that happens at about 7PM in New York, or a certain something at 8PM in the UK instead.

Theater.

False praise1 for actual hard work.

"Yes, thanks for doing the hard work for me, you now gain no further standing or reputation with the site. But I totally am appreciative of the work you put in for me!"

/facepalm

To address some concerns that were voiced thus far: Voting and its proper use as a means of giving feedback continues to be extremely important. This feature (in any way that it may eventually manifest itself) is not intended to replace voting or lessen its use, and a large amount of our analysis after the test will be aimed at ensuring this.

You've ruined the UX by giving people two options. What do you think they're going to do, both? I'm not seeing it as likely but maybe the numbers would prove me wrong.

...but to be honest, I'm still dissatisfied with the need to have two buttons at all.

If you want to encourage more people to vote,

make voting more prominent

instead of less, so that the people who really do want to say "thanks" know exactly how to do so.

We are also considering ways to allow appreciation that is given (through reactions or otherwise) to be surfaced more easily to the recipient (without abusing notifications), as well as to find ways to strengthen and improve user education around the proper use of voting and comments.

Why are you doing this?

All we want is people to upvote. Why are you giving them more buttons? What's this about notifications or reactions? Why is this materially important??


1: Yes, I understand that clapping is a way to show support and solidarity with the front-line workers. But it's the lowest effort thing you can do as opposed to either voting to give them better pay or donating equipment, or petitioning one's local government to serve health care workers better. My opinion is that clapping is just damn lazy and seeing this feature reminds me of that laziness.

7
  • 1
    "but this doesn't speak to a benefit" I think the benefit is already listed: the "burden on moderators" is reduced, so they focus on more pressing flags; human time is precious,, so reducing "time [.] users spend" is a plus. Also, reduced voting is kind of implicit, but you already noted that. I would hope that SE establish clear KPI for features it would like to launch and that those KPI are aligned with the objectives.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 14:36
  • 5
    @Braiam: Moderators have to deal with the burden of comments period, since they're not moderatable by anyone else. Just saying that it "reduces burden" without specifying what it's reducing doesn't directly address the issue.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 14:40
  • 13
    When virtually the entire moderator team is opposed, "reduces burden on moderators" stops being a good argument in favor of the feature. We would know.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 4:20
  • @CodyGray you are opposed to this particular solution, but I bet that "lets block every comment that says 'thank you' and have <45 characters" would be welcomed. But obviously a real analysis should be done on what is the actually the moderators workload and which workloads should be off loaded. Remember the times where moderators were the only ones that could close questions? Fun times.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 19:47
  • @Makoto RE "codified in the official FAQ:" Well, there's a blog post from the CEO saying "We’re making hard choices and treating no assumptions as sacred in considering ways to evolve the community." Emphasis mine. Perhaps this is one of those. Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 18:31
  • @Michael-Where'sClayShirky: I would never have guessed that policy would be an assumption. Color me surprised.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 18:54
  • We "assumed" that policy was exempt. 😐 Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 20:11
47

I can tell you already the results of this experiment from my side. When it was released I thanked two posts (users?) just to see how this feature behaves. Then I completely forgot about its existence and I learned to ignore the new button. I am only reminded of this feature when I flag the still plentiful "Thanks" comments.

What I observed is that people who would upvote and accept an answer, now also press the thanks button. People who posted "Thanks" in the comments now post the comment and press the button.

A completely useless feature that has not impacted the quality of the content on the site and hasn't fixed any of our problems. Thanks!

1
  • 6
    And some users only thank, include that.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 0:58
39

But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users, using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

This is truly frightening.

This explanation may have only come from a person who is unfamiliar both with the numerous "other sites on the Internet" that failed at what Stack Overflow has achieved, and with what Stack Overflow is (and isn't).

Stack Overflow is a database of questions and answers.

The reason why it has been successful while "other sites on the internet" were not is that we judge the content here, not the user.

The voting mechanism moves good content to the top and bad content to the bottom.
The reputation reward for the poster is a mere side effect of that - a side effect that also serves a purpose in judging content (comes from someone with high rep -> must be more trustworthy because they have already provided so much useful stuff).

It is irrelevant for future readers how many thanks the answer received.

It is crippling for SO to lose the very thing that makes it stand out way above the "other sites on the Internet".

By making SO a "more familiar experience" to those who spend all their time on facebook you not just introduce some noise, you lay concrete foundation for SO to stop being a database of questions and answers where we judge content and not the author.

If you succeed in that, SO will join the numerous "other sites on the Internet".

36

We would like first to give some additional background surrounding the intentions around this feature, and make things more clear than they were in the first post [...]

This may not be your department but is there any reason why these sort of mistakes regarding communication are still being made?

That said, we do want to make sure that if it is adopted, it will be done so in a way that will maximize benefit across the site, while preventing any negative effects to existing network practices and norms.

I may have missed it but do you (not you personally, but the team) have any ideas how will you counter the negative of people using the thumbs up solely instead of voting?

This feature (in any way that it may eventually manifest itself) is not intended to replace voting or lessen its use, and a large amount of our analysis after the test will be aimed at ensuring this.

So, what is the purpose of this feature? Why do we need it? What is it trying to solve/achieve?

I think this time spent implementing/researching this feature should've been spent trying to get people to vote more or to make it more prominent.

We are also considering ways to allow appreciation that is given (through reactions or otherwise) to be surfaced more easily to the recipient (without abusing notifications), as well as to find ways to strengthen and improve user education around the proper use of voting and comments.

I'm not sure but is this a real issue that needs solving? Why not just have an opt-out for voting notifications so the user can choose? This genuinely seems like an over engineered solution.

34

Let me reiterate what I said last time this came up.

Hide the thanks behind the upvote.

If people want to thank someone, they should be upvoting. IF they STILL want to thank them after an upvote, show them the thanks button. That is the behaviour we should be encouraging. Only when we've educated people in upvoting, should be let them show appreciation.

Also, if you find people don't press the up arrow, maybe that icon needs updating? I guess maybe it looks like you can move the answer up or down? Does it need a '+/-1' inside the arrow-triangle?

Maybe focus on what makes the site strong, rather than trying to patch on something extra.

9
  • 3
    I think the point of voting is to move the post up or down, so the arrows do make sense that way. From the tour: "Good answers are voted up and rise to the top."
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:08
  • How would the system know that someone still wants to thank a poster after upvoting?
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:09
  • @Scratte I'm just speculating that really new users might make some misinterpretation. Not sure to be honest. It seems obvious to me. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:15
  • @TylerH it wouldn't, it could just assume it was an option they may now want. The point is, no vote, no opportunity to thank. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:15
  • 1
    FWIW, I don't like the feature, so I would not want it showing up after I voted up.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:17
  • @TylerH same, I'm just trying to think of some compromise if SO won't take NO for an answer. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:19
  • 1
    I think the best compromise would be to put in the comment section when a regex sees a attempt of thanking.. to un-associate it with voting. But what can be done with users who do not understand the triangles and who chose to not read the tour? I'm thinking: Nothing can be done for those.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:24
  • 2
    Why don't you ditch the "thanks" part entirely, and just have a "Make my upvote not-anonymous" option? Commented Jul 5, 2020 at 18:14
  • @michael because part of me thinks corporate won't drop the thanks that easily. Commented Jul 5, 2020 at 18:28
33

The feature announcement post had an overwhelmingly negative response from Meta, and many answers conveying reasons that those users thought the feature was a bad idea. This post responds to that feedback, but misses the point entirely - you seem to be interpreting it as "all those users must not have understood how great this feature is, so I just need to explain it better."

Speaking for myself - I fully read the original announcement, considered it, read many of the answers and comments, and then voted on the question and some of the answers as I saw fit. I expect the majority of other users did similarly, and for their strong agreement to merely come across as "they must not have understood..." is insulting.

That said, I should also mention that I'm not surprised in the least that y'all have a plan for how to evaluate the outcome of the test - Stack Exchange has shown repeatedly in the past the ability to do good A/B testing. What hasn't been shown (much lately) is the ability to really hear and believe the opinions of the veteran users.

1
  • 10
    I have problem to understand the reason of this new post. Is it "lets switch from that downvoted thread to a new one and continue"? So naive. So wrong.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 14:48
27

"How has the introduction of feature X impacted outcome Y?"

You will not be able to answer this question because your so-called "test" did not include a control group.

You label this an A-B test, but your A and B are 🙏and 👏🏻. That experiment design will not answer the questions in your post.

The lack of attention to fundamental experiment design suggests that this was never really a typical new feature test to begin with, and going back to the way it was before (no thanks) was never really under consideration.

10
  • 6
    There is a control group: users who don't see any reactions - I am one of them, in fact.
    – Yaakov Ellis StaffMod
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:03
  • 14
    @Yaakov that's news to me and not something that was explained in the announcement. I'll delete this post if it's true.
    – C8H10N4O2
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:05
  • 9
    @YaakovEllis Hopefully the control group is not just employees...
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:11
  • 1
    @YaakovEllis I am too because I turned it off with uBlock (and so is anyone else using an adblocker or userscript to hide it) Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:26
  • "I'll delete this post if it's true". How do we know if it is true? Has anyone from SO given a statement? Ideally a principle dev from the team working on this feature? Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 22:22
  • 1
    I've done some digging, and I was able to find the following statement from an SO employee, "There is a control group: users who don't see any reactions ". Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 22:28
  • 18
    I tried loading a page on different proxies while logged out, and on some of the proxies I got 🙏 and on others I got 👏, but none of the proxies were in the control group. I tested this on 16 different proxies plus my real IP address, and at one point I also web archived a page allowing me to see things from their IP address, giving 18 IP addresses in total. If there is a control group and a given IP address has a probability of 1/3 to be in the control group, the probability of this happening by chance is 0.07%, so I'm 99.93% certain there is no control group. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 23:03
  • 6
    Apparently whether a user sees 🙏 or 👏 (or is in the control group if it exists) is purely IP based, I just tested visiting a page behind a proxy while still logged in and I saw 👏, even though I always see 🙏 when I'm logged in but not behind a proxy. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 23:14
  • 3
    It's not even IP-based, @Donald. I see one on my desktop and another on my laptop, both behind the same NAT with the exact same public IP.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 9:05
  • @CodyGray You're right, I just noticed that I see one in Firefox and the other in Chrome. So it seems like they use several criteria, where the IP address is just one of them. It doesn't seem like it matters though if I'm logged in or not. It would be interesting if an employee could tell us the details. Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 15:38
26

As a casual user for several years, I have not once felt irritated by a Thank you comment.

Yaakov Ellis writes in a comment:

[..] the goal of moving gratitude out of comments is not the only one here.

As if too much gratitude is a main concern at the moment?

SO is trying to fix a non-problem in a way that goes against clear design principles, and the community's reaction reflects that.

Why don't we let users this one thing where they feel relatively safe around SO ? There is a difference between someone saying Thanks! in any of its glorious variations and some anonymous counter. SO needs to understand that it has an interface to humans, and that this isn't a liability but a strength.

7
  • 2
    The issue of noise is widely accepted as just that: an issue. You may not be bothered by it as a casual user, but many users are bothered by scrolling past hundreds of "thanks! +1" comments that add nothing and hide the four/five worthwhile comments indicating obsolete parts or important caveats. Comments have a prescribed purpose intended to add value to a post for all visitors. Likewise, voting has a prescribed purpose intended to add value & functionality for all visitors. This feature muddies the already murky water there, just like allowing "thanks" would cause problems WRT comments.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:32
  • 3
    @TylerH. I wholeheartedly agree with most of your statements! However, I've never had to scroll past hundreds of "thanks! +1" comments. I concur that having to scroll past, let's say, tens of such comments would indeed be an annoyance. Maybe I only know the good, gratitude-free areas of SO ;)
    – snwflk
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:39
  • 11
    I used Stack Overflow for many years before I created an account. When I read a thread, I read it all, all post, all comments, everything! I land on it because I want to learn something and often things are hidden in a comment, so I feel I miss out if I don't read those too. For years I had no idea what the "+1" or "-1" indicated. I didn't even pay attention to the score of the posts as I usually also found a real gem in the middle of a page. Not once was I annoyed by a "Thank you so much! You saved my live" comment. It's easy to read, easy to understand, easy to move on from.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:44
  • 3
    @snwflk you never have to scroll past them because many of us are diligently flagging them to get removed :-) Of course, I'll be the first admit that a single 'thanks' counter is better than 100 'thanks' comments, but that's not really a worthwhile distinction. Getting punched in the arm is better than getting punched in the face, but neither one is ideal.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 14:49
  • 14
    This thread makes a good argument for allowing the comments to be posted and then just silently deleting them after a few days...
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 16:20
  • 11
    @Shog9 As you well know, that is precisely what we have been doing for many years... It's worked well so far. Deleting a "thanks" comment that has outlived its usefulness is really not that big of a deal, and creates a lot less work for moderators than nonsense like this, which can be easily abused. Furthermore, even if a handful of "thanks" comments get missed, there is absolutely no harm whatsoever done.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 20:56
  • 5
    And in fact, many of these are never handled by moderators, @cody - one flag deletes them!
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 21:49
24

Ok, before you read what is below, don't get me wrong. I appreciate that you are trying to clean up the site and adress the veteran user's complaints. I just feel this is not the right solution.

We are also considering ways to allow appreciation that is given (through reactions or otherwise) to be surfaced more easily to the recipient (without abusing notifications), as well as to find ways to strengthen and improve user education around the proper use of voting and comments.

Why? Why can't we just bomb "thanks" comments just like we bombed "+1" comments? Why even care about "thanks" comments? Why do we need an alternative to upvoting?

How has the introduction of the “thanks” reaction impacted voting?

Upvotes have decreased. Users who can upvote are no longer doing so because they see this reaction button. In other words, we are being robbed of reputation, and answers that deserve to rise to the top aren't.

How has the introduction of the “thanks” reaction impacted commenting?

I mean, in some cases it worked, so I have to give you that, but in a lot of my answers, they would 1. Upvote 2. Accept 3. React and 4. Put a thank you comment.

Seems like people want to thank in every way possible.

How has the introduction of the “thanks” reaction impacted other actions (e.g. asking, answering, editing)?

No impact, at least in my case.

What types of users are most likely to leave “thanks” comments? Do we see a reduction in “thank you” comments from users who have the “thanks” reaction?

Mostly new users, with 1 rep usually leave "thanks" comments. And there is no reduction in thanks comments, at least in my case. I answered 20 questions, and 18 of them had thanks comments.

The main problem with this feature is that it is simply a counter. The reason why people even put thanks comments is because upvoting is a counter. They wanted to say thank you personally.

The same for this feature. It's just a number. That seems very impersonal to most people, so they personally thank them in words by putting a thank you comment. I appreciate you are trying to solve this problem, but:

  1. It's not really a problem. Many users don't mind thank you comments.

  2. For those of them who do mind, there's no easy solution to this. We need to implement a feature that seems personal to people, but isn't a counter. It also needs to be abuse proof.

When would users typically use a reaction versus voting?

Pretty much all the time for me. I had to remind them to upvote.

How many reactions overlap the post creator saying thanks for someone suggesting an improvement to their post - "Thanks for your comment, I've clarified that point"

Can't we find that out with an SEDE query?

We are also considering ways to allow appreciation that is given (through reactions or otherwise) to be surfaced more easily to the recipient (without abusing notifications), as well as to find ways to strengthen and improve user education around the proper use of voting and comments.

Again, reactions are a counter. On Social Media, when people really like a post, they react to it, and they comment on it. Sometimes, if it is a post that is okay, they just react.

You can't stop this with a reaction. You need something better, and bigger. I appreciate the initiatives taken by your team, don't get me wrong. I just feel this feature is not what we need.

4
  • new users, with 1 rep usually leave "thanks" comments — they can't, commenting is unlocked at 50 rep, but great answer otherwise :) Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 14:20
  • 1
    @TheTechRobo36414519 They can leave comments...if they are the one asking the question
    – charlietfl
    Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 4:10
  • 1
    @TheTechRobo36414519 Ya sorry about that :). I meeant OP's with 1 rep, or beginners with 50 rep.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 5:23
  • @charlietfl Oops, i forgot lol Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 12:51
20

What metrics are being used to gauge, "success"? Tests have goals, generally set by desired outcomes. What are those numbers? For transparency, you should be sharing your testing methodology, and why you believe those are the important aspects to focus on.

I'm asking this because the vast majority of, "features" the company has touted as game changing (Ask Question wizard, anyone?), have quietly been killed due to lack of effectiveness. Nor have many of the features the community hated been really quantified, only defended. That doesn't build trust, and that's something SE seriously needs. It'd really go a long way to actually implement many of the long standing feature requests instead of pushing something the community didn't ask for, didn't want, and wasn't consulted on beforehand.

17

Preface

First and foremost, thank you for addressing the community concerns for the upcoming feature and especially for the promise to turn the experiment off while the data gathered is analyzed.

Unfortunately, I wholeheartedly cannot agree with a lot of the points made. What's more, as it is currently written, the explanation dodges (no statement of intention here) several fundamental issues with the feature many of us voiced.

What follows is an analysis of what is troubling with assumptions made in the post as well as what important criticisms were not addressed that we hope to receive clarifications for.

Points of concern

Finding a way to allow users to say “thank you”

As with the feature announcement, the question shares a fundamental belief that this is a problem that needs a solution. Unfortunately, we do not have a clear explanation of what amounted to the belief. Yes, a graph from analytics was presented - which users under 25K cannot access to verify or analyze in the first place. Yes, a methodology was provided as “thanks” appears in 1 of 6 comments left under answers sounds somewhat flawed, but I already expressed concerns about it in detail before.

The origin feature for Teams clearly tried to recreate what other platforms had for years:

  • GitHub introduced the feature in late 2016 to address a specific problem: reduce clutter caused by the introduction of emoji (reasons behind the latter are beyond the scope of this answer).

  • Google added reactions for Hangouts in 2018 as a "fun and effective way of accurately representing thoughts and feelings" which was a clutter-free solution to the problem of emotionlessness of text.

  • Microsoft Teams similar feature had an even more blunt reason for existing: "add some fun into your communications".

Note that none tried to justify the feature as solving an important problem (GitHub being the odd one out, but in its case, the sole purpose was the reduction of insufferable amounts of clutter).

using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites

As many others pointed out before, familiar does not entail better. A lot of new users come from traditional forums where posts are placed under the other as responses leading to the community time and effort being wasted on deleting such answers and explaining that this is a Q&A platform.

Even if familiarity helps ease users into a new experience, it still does not mean that practices adopted by social networks are appropriate or desirable in a Q&A format. It is also worth noting that the success of reactions on Teams where people have different incentives for participation should not be used as a metric on public Q&A where the role is filled by reputation system1.

make things more clear than they were in the first post

Even assuming best intentions, this part sounded somewhat condescending0 to the responses that community members provided. People did understand that the feature attempted to solve the problem of "thank you" comments, it was very clear. What was not clear:

  1. Why this was considered a problem in the first place?
  2. If so, why it had higher priority than other requests?
  3. Even so, why this exact solution was chosen, what motivated it2?

this is a feature that may not appeal to some users

As it stands now "some users" is quite an understatement. An avalanche of comments, a hundred answers, more than a 1000 downvotes on the announcement does not come across as only some users. What's more, those who provided responses are active contributors that answer the questions whose side was (again, as it was presented, not how it was intended) never considered.

here are some of the things that we are monitoring during the test

In case this data will be shared before being acted upon, this will be a huge step forward. If the feature proves to be useful and not harmful, fewer people will object. That said, the methodology should be carefully chosen and it would be a good idea to discuss potential pitfalls with the community (which is why I applaud the list of questions provided).

What is left to address

To sum up, the main points left unaddressed or not sufficiently explained are:

  1. Please, make public the criteria and process of the preliminary research. As I mentioned, every member of the community, with or without access to site analytics, should be able to recreate the research to see for themselves. There is always a chance someone notices what you missed or provides an entirely different point of view on the data.
  2. Make "cataloging the feedback and suggestions" actionable - when you are ready, provide at least a brief analysis of those deemed reasonable enough. This will both show the community that you are actually listening and help hone your stance on the matter or get constructive feedback in case the feature is going to be redefined.

Conclusion

Overall, this is a step in the right direction, and thanks to Yaakov Ellis for providing the responses. Even if we disagree on some points, the incident with the "thank you" button has the potential to become a turning point from which we can start building mutual trust if handled properly.

The next chance to prove that "consider the different feedback" is more than just a set of words will present itself during the "Reactions Test Analysis" phase of the Q3 roadmap, please do not waste it.

Notes

One of the responses, unfortunately, stood out to me in a negative light (again, this is not about the intent as I am sure all communication was done in good faith): my hopes are that "does this require a public announcement" was just a poor choice of words, otherwise it seemed like the lesson from this mess is to test controversial features silently while only announcing what you are sure will be welcomed.


0 Note that this does not say anything about the actual intent of the post, just that it can be read as such.
1 Also note this is not to debate that we participate because we want to help, but to point out the incentives to do so.
2 Just an outline of thought process or a list of ideas considered would go a long way in making the feature more welcomed by the community.


4
  • 4
    "In case this data will be shared before being acted upon," - This is crucial. If SE published the data, I'm pretty sure that one could apply ~"some statistical analysis" that showed that the feature was not useful at all. Of course, one could also show the opposite, and it's very likely that this will be done - the main point is that there should be more transparency. (Apart from the fact that talking about "A/B tests to decide about the icon" or "the placement of the button" sounds like it was taken from a cheap parody about micromanagement...)
    – Marco13
    Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 13:11
  • @Marco13 - I agree, one of my main points is that when you have a community of people who solve problems it would be a waste not to leverage the feedback they might give you as much as possible. That said, I have become worried that the explanation for the mess with the feature lies in someone wanting a feature that already proved to be "successful" on other platforms and then justifying this existence with research that is biased towards it (and the irony is that if the methodology was published [ and ideally before the implementation ] I could be convinced otherwise...)
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 0:39
  • 2
    This wasn't a step in the right direction - not in the content of what was done nor in the way it was done. It wasn't altogether terrible, in that some communication with the community did take place, but it was belated, and it seems we're not getting through to them.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 9:15
  • @einpoklum - I just meant that some communication is better than none at all and at least initial concerns of those who posted during the first day were addressed. Yes, the way this whole thing is an ordeal and not handled the best ( at least the feature is turned off thanks to backlash - let's see how it goes down the line )
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 31, 2020 at 4:32
16

Having looked at the proposal in the original post and the amount of the negative feedback that it received, I thought that this feature has no chance of survival. However, I became worried after reading this question. In summary, my feedback is:

Less is more


  • The feedback from the meta-community is negative, almost without exceptions. At the time of writing, the vote on the original post is 1162/141. If one believes that the 'voter turnout' represents the opinion of the meta-community about this feature, roughly 89% of the meta-community is against its introduction (also, it would be interesting to understand how many of the supporters of this feature are affiliated with SO). Why would anyone wish to acquire further evidence to prove that this feature is not a useful contribution?
  • As I understand it, the primary issue that the feature is trying to address is the "thank you" comments that are, occasionally, left by users who are not familiar with all of the policies of the website. I can hardly imagine why this issue has such a high priority. Leaving a "thank you" comment is a very minor violation in comparison to, for example, posting a low-quality question or a low-quality answer. It seems like this feature attempts to fix something that is not even broken.
  • It is, obviously, questionable whether or not this feature will solve the problem that it is trying to address. This requires data acquisition, data analysis, and some subjective judgment. In turn, this will require a certain amount of effort that is best expended on more important problems.
  • The research done by the company does not seem to highlight whether other options were considered to tackle the problem of eliminating "thank you" comments. Is this feature truly the best and the only alternative? I highly doubt this.
  • It is very likely that this feature will have a negative impact on other aspects of this website (even if it will achieve the desired goal of the reduction of the number of "thank you" comments). It will make the interface more cluttered, complicated, and confusing than it is at the moment. Most likely, it will reduce the number of upvotes on good answers, making it even harder for new competent users to gain reputation.
  • Given all of the negative feedback that this feature received, it is very likely that its introduction will have long-lasting negative impact on the (already shattered) relationship between the meta-community and the company.

There can be little doubt that the net effect of the introduction of this feature will be negative. Therefore, this experiment needs to be abandoned as soon as possible before more time is wasted.

6
  • 2
    It would be better if you noted that the "roughly 89% of the meta-community" concerns those who voiced the opinion by voting. That said, I would love to see the total percent in support of the feature (something tells me it is low, but one never knows...)
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 0:26
  • 1
    @OlegValter This is exactly why I stated "roughly" (or approximately). Indeed, abstention can be dealt with differently. However, a reasonably standard procedure is not to take into account the abstentions. Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 0:34
  • 1
    Don't argue with you - just pointed that in this form it is easier to refute. That said, I think the results would not change much, of course.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 1:14
  • 2
    @OlegValter actual disapproval may be even higher than 89% because it doesn't account for visitors having reputation between 15 and 125. All of them could vote it up but some (many? most?) didn't do that because they wanted to vote it down, not up (and were unable to because of rep requirement). It would be ironic (and probably fair) if that meta announcement had a special "thumbs down" reaction to let these readers publicly indicate their disappreciation
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 6, 2020 at 14:16
  • 1
    @gnat - probably, it is a pity there is no reliable way to know that for sure... Funny thing - despite me being very critical of the feature, it could have its place on meta sites if brought in in the same way as for Teams in a limited form to serve a purpose similar to what you described
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 6, 2020 at 14:22
  • 2
    @gnat Actually, in the end, I edited my answer based on the first comment made by Oleg Valter. However, I approve the issue that you have raised. There are many barriers that a user needs to overcome before clicking the downvote button, some are psychological, some are policy-based (that is, some users are simply not allowed to do it :-) ). Nonetheless, for this particular proposal, it seems that the disagreement is almost unanimous. Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 22:17
16

Finding a way to allow users to say “thank you” without using a comment is something that we do want to address through this feature. But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users, using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet.

When you say "a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites", you overlook something in favor of this feature. Those familiar sites do not only have a 👍 button; they also have a comment section which would let the users 'socialize', say "thank you", etc. So, your claims are contradicting in a way that you cannot expect users to see the "thank you" button and feel familiar but then use the comment section of SO different from those sites.

Although I am busy these days and am not browsing SO posts that regularly, I've seen 11 posts with "Thank you" feature being used on them and 9 of those had a "thank you" comment posted by the same user. I had to instruct the OP to accept the answer if it's the correct one, instead of saying "thank you". I have a standard comment for that, but that creates more work. Besides that, not always OP would circle back to read and act on that comment.

Have you tried any of the solutions below? If you think that an answer helped you, please consider accepting it by clicking the checkmark (✔️) on the left side under the vote arrows and/or upvoting (▲). In reference to What should I do when someone answers my question? Thanks!



To address some concerns that were voiced thus far: Voting and its proper use as a means of giving feedback continues to be extremely important. This feature (in any way that it may eventually manifest itself) is not intended to replace voting or lessen its use, and a large amount of our analysis after the test will be aimed at ensuring this.

I appreciate considering our concerns. But I am still baffled why other methods were not used first or in parallel to reduce "thank you" comments, like showing a tooltip instructing users to not use comments for saying "thank you" and use upvote button.



Proposal:

I understand that most of the "thank you" comments are posted by users without voting privilege (or generally newcomers). Here is an idea off the top of my head:

You can show the count of votes by those users as "thank you" (similar to what this feature shows, but not associating a different button to it). This way, users will exercise using upvote (and downvote-- downvotes by newcomers can reduce the count of thanks) instead of driving them away from these important parts of participation.

Others have suggested to have tooltips for newcomers on the voting buttons which include those familiar icons. I remember not being able to vote, and it was throwing me off. I believe combination of these two ideas will help users to feel somewhat familiar while using existing features which are vital parts of our community.



Another concern of mine, is about the way this feature test is rolled out. I was expecting you to assign a control group without this feature (instead of two groups with different buttons). I know this sounds like a conspiracy, but at the back of my mind, I have this idea that you have already made your mind about doing this, and now you're just testing how to do it. All those analysis that you mentioned in the post, need to be compared to data from users without those features. Even the was once removed from the original announcement post and editor noted this concern. That said, I want to acknowledge your statement regarding keeping an open mind.

We have seen and are cataloging the feedback and suggestions given already relating to ways and reasons that this feature might or might not work in achieving its goals. And we are keeping an open mind about functionality here — the current manifestation of the feature (including even the two images currently being tested) is in no way final. Ideas related to experimenting with the placement of the button or prompting users to give an upvote if they give a reaction without voting are great. Please keep them coming!

2
  • 2
    You are correct about "you have already made your mind about doing this" - note that the feature was originally developed for Teams and considered to be testing on main SO for at least half a year (see product designer blogpost), which is a bit sad... That said, that's one of the most fresh ideas about how to: 1. Nudge users towards voting; 2. Discourage from "thanks" commenting; 3. Salvage the effort that went into icons and overall design
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 20:24
  • 2
    Yeah, I saw your answer and like it and share the position on the matter - the links are more for others if they come by the comment for reference. That is just to offer some explanation on "why other methods were not used first" - likely because the idea behind the reactions as a feature came first, and the justification only second...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 21:04
15

This is a solution in search of a problem.

There is nothing actually bad about 'thanks' comments. Your desire to eliminate them is neatnikism; you are being that person with OCD who tidies the house so thoroughly that it becomes sterile and unwelcoming.

And SO doesn't want for a reputation for being unwelcoming.

4
  • 8
    I don't think it's neatnikism. I think there's a business reason this feature has been written, and the attempt at justification is falling flat. Commented Jul 1, 2020 at 20:27
  • The thank-you's being there are not that of a real problem as much as users write them instead of upvoting.
    – svarog
    Commented Jul 3, 2020 at 6:43
  • 3
    @svarog So now people will press the "thanks" button instead of upvoting.
    – Run_Script
    Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 12:55
  • There are things that are bad about "thanks" comments, but: 1. It's not that bad 2. The thanks button is bad in some of those same ways 3. Adding the thanks button doesn't help.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 9:16
15

Please, please account for the bug where the duplicate dialog can lead to spurious "thanks" reactions (see also the bug report on the feature announcement). I'm certain a whole lot of power users have "thanks" rattling around in their profiles that they never meant to post.

I started looking for the behaviour when I noticed no less than four "thanks" allegedly posted by me on things I used as dupe targets. That's four more than what I intended. At least one moderator was hit by the bug.

I'm seriously worried that these spurious "thanks" reactions that nobody asked for will bias the assessment of the feature that nobody asked for. My suggestion is to prune the "thanks" from your dataset that was put on dupe targets by dupe voters. Let's face it: the vast majority of these "thanks" is bound to be a false positive.

14

What types of users are most likely to leave “thanks” comments?

There needs to be some study done into why people choose to write thanks in comments instead of just up voting.

In theory, clicking a button to show thanks requires no effort at all, while writing it out in a comment is effort invested. People really want to reach out and put an effort in personally thanking the poster. Because they feel the poster who put in effort deserves some back.

Therefore, adding an effortless 'thanks' button won't help people who type 'thank you' comments to return an effort.

Proposition:

To reduce the number of thanks given in comments, there should be a little dialogue bubble popup for users who type 'thanks' that appears after clicking 'Add Comment'. This dialogue should remind the user to up vote the post to thank the poster.

14

Since the testing started, I never clicked on the "Thanks" button a single time. Why? Not because I didn't find good answers or I was too lazy to try it out, but because I genuinely didn't see any point in using that feature.

And I still don't get the incentive behind that addition, even if you tried to explain the reasons you had in mind. Why do we need an alternative for showing appreciation?

If your goal is to prevent "Thank you" comments, can't they be intercepted and handled with a popup message telling the user to rather upvote instead? (In the same way "+1" comments are handled)

Also, it seems that you're still pushing this feature, even if the original post is probably one of the most downvoted ones on SO. It kinda gives me the feeling that the concerns of the community are being ignored here.

13

While I recognise that you guys are trying to find a balance between 'hard' and 'soft' feel in terms of how the site works - and having born witness to the fact that the site was originally too 'hard' and offputting for beginners - I have to say, I think this pushes the site too far toward the 'soft' side of the spectrum, and makes it feel yuck.

"Thank you" is a lovely thing to say in the comments. It becomes a valueless metric if reduced to a feature. But personally, I've never seen comment sections spammed with 'thanks' - at most one or two - so I think you can rest assured that that is not going to become a problem, at least from what I've seen.

1
  • Moreover such comments, if they are burden (e.g. too many), can be flagged as "conversational" and mods will simply delete them.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Jul 7, 2020 at 7:46
11

I appreciate the attempt to provide additional context and the individual replies to the answers (or at least to some of the answers, here and in the original announcement).

But I still disapprove of the feature and how it was handled and the additional context doesn't do much to change my mind.

The issue was not that you needed to explain the feature or the thinking or process behind it better. A lot of us understand what you were aiming for just fine, we just think there is a fundamental problem with it that no amount of explaining can fix. Most of the answers to the original post would've been equally valid if we had all this additional context in that post.

Really listening doesn't mean just explaining why what you're doing makes sense, it means asking yourself and others whether it does makes sense, it means being open to the possibility of being wrong, admitting when you are wrong and actually changing what you're doing.

In my opinion the only sentiment worth expressing here is that you want to avoid unintended negative effects to existing functionality, although I'd hope you'd do that with any new feature. That sentiment probably could've waited until you have some concrete results to share about how the test went and how you'll move forward.


I also appreciate that you're willing to experiment and change, but it's unfortunate that the only direction this seems to be going is the wrong one. One of the main advantages of Meta is that you have a treasure trove of ideas for new features and discussion about those features from a fairly wide variety of the very users who use those features. Maybe not so much new users, who you seem to be focusing on, but we were all new users once (some more recently and disastrously than others) and you wouldn't have much if you only have new users.

So it does strike me as rather odd that you would spend a bunch of time implementing something no-one asked for, especially without first at least getting some feedback from your users.

11

But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users ...

Why? There is already the upvote that surely also includes a thanks. I would just use that button instead and maybe make it counting in some way for all users.

This feature (in any way that it may eventually manifest itself) is not intended to replace voting or lessen its use..

I guess then that this feature will most probably never manifest itself, because an alternative way to express appreciation will always lessen the use of voting at least to some degree, I estimate. But it's good that you will look at the numbers. At least for the sake of science, I'm interested in them and how much impact this feature has.

I also wonder if the negative meta reaction (score < -1000) of the test announcement is taken into account additionally to the quantitative measurements.

When considering the way forward, I hope that alternative solutions like automatically detecting thanks comments and maybe making them time limited will also be taken into account. Experiments on that date back to 2014: Can a machine be taught to flag comments automatically?.

11

I really feel like this whole experiment is misunderstanding the entire purpose of the "reaction" buttons on other sites.

Social sites use reaction buttons to encourage quick, drive-by interactions with content. They use these interactions to help determine how a user feels about something, which improves their personal-data-harvesting algorithms. Every interaction - of any kind - helps monetization, and quick reaction buttons generate more interaction. In other words, reactions generate information for the site, not the content creator.

Stack Exchange doesn't make their money by spying on users and selling personal info. They actually have useful products for sale. The ads on their sites are generated based on the topic of that particular site and the content of the page, not on personal data harvested secretly and sold to advertisers. This is an important difference, and it's one of the reasons that I (and others) come here first for information instead of other sites. When I go to a new site and I see a bunch of monetization-related features like "reaction" buttons, I hit the back button and go somewhere else. Having these sorts of things on Stack Exchange can give people the wrong impression.

If you're not using these interactions to feed a surveillance algorithm and they don't interact with the gamification aspect of the site, then they're just visual clutter that serves no purpose to anyone. I understand that people might want to thank a poster for their contribution, but that's not really what this button actually does. Nobody - on this site or others - trolls back through their history of old posts to see who had what sort of reaction to it (it's write-only content). That means if you thank one of my posts, I'll almost certainly never know that you did. Your "thanks" was just transmitted into the void. How is that meaningful or helpful to anyone? Instead, I could just say "thank you" out loud to my monitor (or echo "thanks" > /dev/null). I still get to express my thanks, the thankee still has no idea I did it, and on the plus side, I'm less likely to forget to upvote.

9

Not sure if this was proposed and turned down for various other reasons, but in my perspective instead of too may distractions - simply adding the watermark text in comment box will help.

Current state:

enter image description here

Proposed state:

enter image description here

1
  • 1
    Yes, we are definitely thinking along the same lines :-) This should have been tried first, and only proceed to something requiring more effort if this does not appear to have much positive effect. Commented Aug 2, 2020 at 17:06
5

Another post alluded to this, but I wanted to make sure it got pointed out.

The "Thank you" comment is both bad and good.

Good: Stack Overflow works because volunteers give their time freely to help others. Sometimes the "Thank you!" Or even better, the "Thank you, that saved my deadline!" is what keeps this critical group coming back to donate free time to the site.

Bad: When someone else comes along to look at the answer, the "Thank you!" is noise.

It seems to me that the feature in development is the wrong feature, as it works to eliminate something that in effect "pays" a critical element of StackOverflow.

Something else may be be able to fit both needs. Maybe only show the "Thank you" comment for select groups (like the answerer) and those that want to see them. But hide them from drive by googlers.

What ever is come up with, I think it is important to realize the good that a "thank you" comment can do to the site.

2
  • Thank you for pointing that out. But what is the solution? Do we need private mailboxes maybe where answerers can receive personal praise from readers? Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 8:22
  • 5
    @Trilarion, There are many ways to solve it (in my opinion). The hardest part is differentiating between "Thank you I was going to miss my deadline, but your answer saved it" comments and "Thank you for your answer, but it still is not working" kind of comments. Once you know that you can selectively show therm where ever it makes sense. In my opinion, some kind of automated machine learning system could get fairly close on telling what kind of comments are which. Maybe the addition of a second button below "Add Comment" that says "Add Thanks" would work. (I am just brainstorming though)
    – Vaccano
    Commented Jul 2, 2020 at 19:00
5

Lastly, we would like to confirm here that the current iteration of the Thank you Reaction feature will be turned off ... while we analyze the data and consider the ... feedback ... to find the best way forward.

Please don't. Your time is much better spent doing other things. There is no need to move "forward" with this feature; instead, now that you've remove it from the site - just let the matter go.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .