70

How can this happen:

enter image description here

I thought that new users were throttled with asking no more questions than one within 90 minutes?

As @gnat stated in comments:

since all the garbage they dumped is deleted now, here's user profile to help moderators and SO developers investigate this bug: MBall

30
  • 9
    Oh that one. I'm going to have dreams about that poster tonight. Commented May 1, 2016 at 10:07
  • 3
    @MartinJames I saw you flagged it. But how did the second question make it in at all? Commented May 1, 2016 at 10:10
  • 10
    @Bjørn-RogerKringsjå status by design is 90 minutes rate limit for new users asking questions at Stack Overflow. One thing that could possibly break it is, they recently implemented cross-site posting rate limits - and these new limits use network-wide default (something laughable like 5 or 10 minutes). If done wrong, cross-site limits could override those at Stack Overflow
    – gnat
    Commented May 1, 2016 at 10:22
  • 27
    Oh - someone took down the wards, and the creatures from the lowest levels of hell are breaking through to our dimension:( Commented May 1, 2016 at 10:24
  • 1
    @πάνταῥεῖ Not mine, so watch out, there's a troll about.. Commented May 1, 2016 at 12:00
  • 1
    yes, improves. A while ago I've been using quote formatting for similar effect but someone at MSE convinced me that kbd works better (eg on mobile)
    – gnat
    Commented May 1, 2016 at 12:27
  • 1
    @gnat OKI DOKE. (okily dokily) Commented May 1, 2016 at 12:30
  • 1
    Within 5 minutes of what? You still need two questions to detect a pattern.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 1, 2016 at 13:25
  • 1
    @RobertHarvey I don't get you? My question is how these two questions could appear within a timespan of 5 minutes, and OP wasn't blocked to ask the latter one? Commented May 1, 2016 at 13:28
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    Yep, looks like it's broken.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 1, 2016 at 13:41
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    @RobertHarvey Well, you're a hard nut to crack :-P ... Commented May 1, 2016 at 13:42
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    It just seems unlikely that such a simple rate limiter would be broken, unless someone at SE tripped over a power cord.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 1, 2016 at 13:43
  • 6
    @RobertHarvey But I've been observing it. And it wasn't the 1st time recently. That was just a sample I was able to catch, and decided to report here. Commented May 1, 2016 at 13:46
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    hmm I wouldn't be surprised if broken rate limit helped quite a bit in bootstrapping recent voting ring. Generally the way how SE developers approach the rate limit looks backward to me: network wide default should be like at SO ie 90 minutes (not these senseless 5-10) and only sites that requested it lowered would have lower rate limit than default
    – gnat
    Commented May 1, 2016 at 15:45
  • 2
    Another recent example. Commented May 2, 2016 at 15:54

1 Answer 1

39

Sorry about that. I'd hoped the other rate-limits we'd built in over the past couple of years would pick up the slack here, but... That didn't quite happen.

Here's a handy graph of users who hit the new-user asking limit per week, by week:

too image, didn't view: the number dropped like the proverbial rock

And here's a corresponding graph of users who hit the question-block, just so you can see that there's no real slack-picking-up happening here:

Oops.

I've put in a change request to restore the ability to customize this limit network wide; if all goes well, that'll be available again in another couple of weeks.

Until then, here's what I'm gonna try:

  1. The new-user ask limit is now one question every 40 minutes, network-wide. That means only 1 question every 40 minutes on Stack Overflow, but also means you'd need to wait 40 minutes after asking a question on, say, Woodworking to ask a related question on Crafting or Home Improvement. And yes, gnat, it also means you'd need to wait 40 minutes after asking a question on Stack Overflow before asking a question on Programmers.

  2. Rolling rate-limits kick in faster. Like, immediately. If your first question is downvoted and you try to ask another one 40 minutes later, you'll be forced to wait at least a day. That's potentially very harsh... But probably also better than penalizing everyone for the behavior of a few. We'd always intended rolling rate-limits to supplant the new-user rate-limits, and this will hopefully allow them to do so.

Why 40 instead of 90 or at least 60? Because there's no ability to customize this per-site right now, and because this applies to all new users from a given IP, this may be very painful for small or niche sites. I picked 40 because 75% of questions scoring <0 asked in the past 30 days got their first downvote within 39 minutes, so this should allow the rolling rate-limits to kick in for most users without requiring per-site overrides.

Of course, anyone caught circumventing either of these restrictions will still have their account and questions unceremoniously deleted and their network blocked from asking further questions for a generous period of time.

Sorry again for not catching this sooner; please let me know if you notice any odd unintended consequences here.

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  • 1
    Well, thank you. "Because there's no ability to customize this per-site right now, ..." That explains a lot. Commented May 2, 2016 at 21:59
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    "I picked 40 because 75% of questions scoring <0 asked in the past 30 days got their first downvote within 39 minutes" heck, that's awesome. I need more data about that, I mean, I meant to ask for it, but, you know, effort... and university
    – Braiam
    Commented May 2, 2016 at 22:00
  • 1
    Would this be worth placing in MSE so that legitimate users that might encounter this would have some idea of what's going on? I know we've got the lion's share of users, but the smaller sites would definitely be confused about this.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 2, 2016 at 22:26
  • Probably just worth answering that question when it arises, @Makoto. Lemme know if you see one.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 2, 2016 at 22:32
  • 1
    how this system is supposed to work if user is established at site A (say, Math) but new at site B (say, Programmers)? Would they be rate limited on site B? would they be rate limited network wide?
    – gnat
    Commented May 3, 2016 at 11:28
  • 2
    Everywhere except Math, @gnat.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 3, 2016 at 12:55
  • 2
    Maybe worth updating your MSE answer? /cc @Makoto Commented May 3, 2016 at 12:55
  • @ShadowWizard FWIW I updated rate limiting guide and features changelog
    – gnat
    Commented May 3, 2016 at 19:25
  • 1
    Thanks @gnat though better have the answer up to date as well. Commented May 3, 2016 at 21:15
  • they say rate limit is 90 minutes now not 40 - at least for reposting from Programmers to Stack Overflow (not that I complain)
    – gnat
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 7:32
  • Looks like "in another couple of weeks" was accurate for once, @gnat - functionality was restored on May 13th.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 23, 2016 at 21:59
  • so network wide rate limit works about like this - the asker who (like in my example) dumped garbage at Programmers will be able to repost at SO in 90 minutes, and in case if they decide to start with their trash at SO, they will be able to repost at Programmers in 40 minutes, do I understand this correctly? And at both sites, if their first question is voted down and closed in the meantime, rolling rate limit at that site will give them full day to think about how to do better next time, right?
    – gnat
    Commented May 23, 2016 at 23:07
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    Something like that, @gnat. I don't think the rolling rate-limit thing is set to 1 question anywhere outside of SO right now, but apart from that yeah it should work that way - essentially the time of your last question (anywhere) is cached and compared against the wait-threshold for the current site when a new user goes to ask a question.
    – Shog9
    Commented May 23, 2016 at 23:10
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    Here's a handy graph of users who hit the new-user asking limit per week, by week eh. Here is a better picture: highlighthollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/…
    – Pekka
    Commented Jun 27, 2016 at 17:26
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    No, there's a bit of a hole in the logic there, @gnat; occasionally someone slips through.
    – Shog9
    Commented Nov 28, 2016 at 17:32

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