120

A few times per month week, we get a post from a banned user asking how can (s)he be banned with only a single "bad" question. That invariably resolves itself with a moderator looking up the old posts and telling the user that (s)he has a bunch of bad questions/answers that were deleted and cannot be seen by mere mortals.

I think we can reduce the load on the moderators and help the users get out of the ban if we allow the banned user to see all of their questions or answers (according to the nature of the ban), even if they have been deleted and are older than 60 days.

This could be a part of the ban UI rather than a usual user profile, so that not everyone gets to see the old deleted posts.

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  • 17
    "A few times per month ..." I'd say a few times per week.
    – user0042
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:04
  • 3
    I'm sure that the reason that deleted questions aren't shown are for specific, historical reasons, but I've personally disagreed with that logic on occasion. I'm just not sure how they'd go about implementing it since seeing deleted posts is still tied to reputation.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:06
  • 28
    @Makoto I'd venture that a user should always see all of her deleted posts at all times. If SO policies disagree, at least let's make an exception for users in the ban state.
    – user3458
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:09
  • 36
    Just to be sure we are all on the same page: We're talking here about users who ignored several warning banners before they were post-banned and didn't follow any advice given so far, ignored close notice and didn't care about the down votes. If that is all correct then what makes them find and improve their now deleted crap? Why should developer time been spend to implement features for users who didn't give a *&^^% so far?
    – rene
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:11
  • 4
    for reference (MSE): Show all of my question/answers to me even if they are deleted
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:12
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    @rene: At a minimum, it stops them coming to us saying that they've been virtual saints and that they "only" have one or two bad questions/answers. Calls 'em out.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:12
  • 12
    @rene "what makes them find and improve...?" - the fact that the ban finally happened apparently changes their attitude enough to send some of them to meta. My suggestion is for that subset.
    – user3458
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:15
  • 5
    I see more opportunity. It gives us the power to add details to the venerable canonical question about how they can inspect their deleted post history. It also narrows the conversation from "OMG the system is unfair" to "Here's what you messed up and here's how you can fix it".
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:15
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    With how easy it is for a new user to end up question banned, i'd like to see this revisited. It doesn't necessarily need to be a super obvious location in the profile, just turn "recently deleted" into "deleted" and list them all. it's out of sight unless you're actively looking for them.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:16
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    @rene If we assume for a moment that we don't give a crap about spending developer time helping those people, what if we spent the developer time showing information that there's no good reason not to show to users so that they stop wasting the time of active and valuable users of the site (the meta users and moderators) who end up being frequently inconvenienced when these users ask on meta their old, bad deleted questions are.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 19:42
  • 2
    I would not be in favour of a massive DB change to implement this. Maybe if it was a one-line query change, (but even that has to be tested etc.). In general, I'm not much in favour of anything that adds work by (not the OP) towards fixing questions, answers, bans etc. It seems like it's always 'someone else' who has to 'help' the snowflakes by adding extra load on the SO staff. graphite mods and moderating users. Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 20:07
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    Maybe there should be three meta sites. 1) I was banned, have no downvoted questions, no deleted questions and the medium-term memory of a colander that's suffering from Alzheimer's. 2) Rants about marauding gangs of elitist trolls, propping up their inflated egos by downvoting like jerks for no good reason. 3) Everything else. Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 20:24
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    @MartinJames please don't forget to close the <sarcasm> tag.
    – user3458
    Commented Sep 11, 2017 at 20:57
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    @rene I mean, there's a whole meta post explaining how to remove the question ban, but in some cases it's impossible unless you've bookmarked old questions. The functionality already exists, as moderators have access to it. I hardly think preventing people from improving their behaviour (and in the process, fixing their previous contributions) is a good thing.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Sep 12, 2017 at 8:44
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    @Rob I really appreciate how both you and Servy try to convince me that users can change behavior and improve. Forgive me my grumpyness ...
    – rene
    Commented Sep 12, 2017 at 8:48

3 Answers 3

66

Hiding a user's own deleted questions from them has always a been a bad idea*, whether they're banned, whether they're <10k+ users, whether the questions are more than 60 days old, whatever.

So yes, let's stop doing that, as there's clearly a genuine benefit to allowing people to see their previous mistakes and either benefit from them, or at least not be able to waste moderator time by trying to pretend they didn't exist. (They'll still try to feign innocence, it's just easier for the mod to reply with a link to their deleted questions, perhaps "See https://stackoverflow.com/users/deleted-questions/userid".)

Keep it a link from the list of questions, but make the link more prominent for banned users or users with a history of questions being deleted by the community. Something like:

You've asked questions which have been deleted by the community [...], click here to see them to understand why they've been deleted.

...where [...] is:

  • "and have lead to a question ban" if the user is banned
  • "and may lead to a question ban" if the user is at risk but not yet banned

Leave the link as-is for users who just have the odd deleted question.

On the list of deleted questions, if the user has been banned or is at risk of a ban, say that, and why. That way mods don't have to explain anything, just refer the user to their deleted questions.


* Barring, that is, it being an absolute necessity because of the volume of them; e.g., if the database would be completely swamped with dumps of homework assignments. (I know lots of — all? — deleted questions/answers are kept; what I don't know is whether deleted questions from banned, inactive, clearly one-off accounts are actually physically deleted at some point or just not indexed/made accessible.) But even then, perhaps there are alternate approaches to actual deletion.

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    in the ancient past they could justify reluctance to show deleted posts by the fear that bad things will happen and complaints will flood us. But showing recent deleted posts is with us for over 4 years now (Four. Friggin'. Years!) and sky didn't fall and it's about time to complete that old change that has proven to be okay beyond any shade of doubt
    – gnat
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 11:59
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    “if the database would be completely swamped with dumps of homework assignments” – Considering that they are always there and visible to 10k+ users if they have a link to it, simply hiding a list will not reduce the volume in the database :P
    – poke
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 18:26
  • I was at a +1 for this answer right at Hiding a user's own deleted questions from them has always a been a bad idea and the rest of the answer just got better and better. Well said T.J.
    – TecBrat
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 20:20
  • @poke: The volume of 10K+ users is dwarfed by the number of non-10K users by a factor of 630 times. Giving everyone the ability to access deleted questions will invariably put some degree of strain on resources.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 20:38
  • @Makoto My point is that deleted questions are physically there. It’s not like they are removed from the database. So hiding or not hiding one’s own deleted posts does not change anything about their existance in the database.
    – poke
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 20:39
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    @poke: Yes, but this doesn't even begin to describe how that data is indexed or accessed. PostsWithDeleted was a recently added table to SEDE to let us amateurs be able to infer some things on deleted posts. My gut tells me that this particular table isn't accessed 100 times a day, and isn't rendered for the vast majority of users, and thus, reintroducing it would be an optimization cost. I may post a separate answer just to play Devil's Advocate on this point alone.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 20:41
  • @poke: My point there was that I don't know that old deleted questions from inactive banned one-off accounts aren't actually deleted at some point, not knowing the details of what SE does with chaff like that. Commented Sep 13, 2017 at 21:57
12

Changes in early 2022 made it possible for every user to see their deleted posts, replacing the "deleted recent" questions and answers pages.

To see your deleted questions, go to your profile and select "questions". At the bottom of the list there will be a link to all your deleted questions. (The same is true for answers, under its own section.) Or you can use these universal links:

As always, if you have at least 10k rep, you can search for deleted:1 to find your deleted posts, and narrow it down how you want.

2
  • Was this officially announced somewhere?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 3:47
  • @CodyGray I heard about it on MSE (see edit). I don't think they had a big announcement post.
    – Laurel
    Commented Apr 5, 2022 at 10:09
-5

Since I'm interested in playing Devil's Advocate, if we do want this to happen, we have to keep the amount of users this will impact in mind.

Anecdotally, the ratio of users who can't see deleted posts compared to those who can right now sits at around 630 to 1. Because we can't see deleted posts on other accounts without moderator privileges, the PostsWithDeleted table won't be of much use to us to determine the average number of deleted questions per user under 10K.

The big thing here is how many people would be able to hit the table. I'm willing to bet that it's implemented how it is now to prevent excessive strain on what is likely unindexed, or otherwise unoptimized from a database standpoint, data. If we limit the number of accesses of this sort of thing to compute it once a week, and only when they're actually banned, since that'll reduce the population significantly, then it might alleviate strain on the system.

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    PostsWithDeleted was never hidden for performance reasons in SEDE. And there's no obvious database access gotchas that would require incredibly sophisticated designs to mitigate. So I'm pretty sure performance is a red herring; the question is whether preventing loss aversion (which we know for a fact was the original design motivation for hiding one's own deleted posts) is worth this coyness. Commented Sep 14, 2017 at 8:36
  • @NathanTuggy: I'm saying it's not a red herring. It's probably more relevant than we think. Remember: especially in the case of Stack Overflow, it's always more expensive to do something than it is to do nothing.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 15, 2017 at 14:47
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    So, the access pattern of "show a filtered list of records from two tables with one inner join and one WHERE condition" is somehow staggeringly expensive and impractical for an on-demand niche use that most users will touch a few times a year at most? And, in particular, far more expensive than exactly the same query but with one more date criterion? I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Commented Sep 15, 2017 at 17:17
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    @NathanTuggy: All I'm simply stating is to not forget or disregard it. I'm overwhelmingly in support of this feature. I'm only playing Devil's Advocate here and making sure that everyone that wants to support this at least spares a thought for this case. We don't know enough about their infrastructure to say one way or another, but again, doing something costs more than doing nothing.
    – Makoto
    Commented Sep 15, 2017 at 17:19

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