119

You currently have this close reason – emphasis mine:

Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming. You may be able to get help on Super User.

Now, the problem is, there's also a direct migration path to Super User. What purpose does this close reason serve, then?

If a question is off topic for Stack Overflow, on topic for Super User, and good enough to be migrated, it should be migrated there directly. If it is not on topic for Super User (despite being about computer software or hardware), or not good enough, it should not be migrated, and – most importantly – we should not tell people that they get help on Super User.

Let's see what should really happen:

Why the current situation is bad:

It shouldn't say, "Yeah, well, you could ask on Super User", because what we see happening quite often is people asking off topic questions on Super User, assuming it would have been fine, because they were told so.

This leaves a bad user experience. First you're told to go somewhere else, and then people on the target site have to fix it and tell unexperienced users that they've been getting the wrong advice through an official message, signed by people who should've known better.

And I dare say the first close reason is also often chosen for questions about phones and electronic devices, which are off topic for Super User – but many close voters on Stack Overflow may not know that.

A few other issues: Those posts are usually just copy-pasted, and users on Stack Overflow might also be wondering why their question wasn't migrated directly. It encourages cross-posting ("hey, look over there!") rather than showing people that a question can be moved, or not telling folks about a site that will not help them anyway.

So please, remove the mention of Super User from the close reason, and let it simply say:

Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming.

Vote to migrate all questions that are good enough for Super User and on topic there.

27
  • 3
    I just remembered… this was brought up before on MSO before the split and closed there, so I guess it makes sense to ask it here.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:45
  • 2
    "Vote to migrate..." Hmm... how do I vote to migrate?
    – Louis
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:45
  • 4
    @Louis You click "This question belongs on another site in the Stack Exchange network" and then choose the site. And… please don't take this personally, but seeing that you have 18k reputation on Stack Overflow, I find it, well, curious that you wouldn't know. Is the option really not as prominent as it could be?
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:47
  • 6
    That option is presented to me as a vote to close the question. That it also constitutes a vote for migration is not at all clear to me.
    – Louis
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:49
  • 2
    @Louis True, it does not say "migrate" anywhere, although that's the official term for it. Perhaps that's another possible change request for all sites.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:50
  • 15
    You sure you want to encourage more migration?
    – Shog9
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:50
  • 1
    At least for me, I think that option would be for posts that potentially could go to Super User but aren't great yet so we don't migrate them. There are times we get custom requests that are off-topic for SO and could be on-topic but are quality enough to move, so I'll use that option as a close reason.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 19:51
  • 5
    So... The month after we rolled out that close reason, the number of migration votes for Super User dropped from 4755 to 1173, and mostly continued dropping - last month we saw 457. That's votes, not flags and not closures - as you note, it takes 4 out of 5 votes to actually migrate a question. Still... That's a massive drop. I think it's worth keeping in mind.
    – Shog9
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:04
  • 1
    @BilltheLizard Similar to what bluefeet mentioned above, in such a case you'd have to specifically tell users to go search though, right? I wouldn't assume they'd see the link to Super User and – instead of just copypasting their question – search for an answer.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:09
  • 5
    If their question gets closed on SO, then they copy/paste it to SU, that's no different from a migration. If only some people search on SU instead of doing that, we're still ahead. (But maybe the close message should explicitly tell people to look for an answer before posting on SU? That seems reasonable to me.)
    – Bill the Lizard Mod
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:12
  • 3
    @Shog9 I'd like that part where you link to a FAQ-style page instead of one site. Then you could redirect all things Android, iOS, etc. as well.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:17
  • 2
    @BilltheLizard But that's the whole point. If they don't know about SU (because it's not mentioned), they can't copypaste it there. We don't want these bad questions to be copypasted. We want the good questions to be migrated. And yes, briefly telling people to improve the post / search for an answer, might help. At least better than not telling them to.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:18
  • 2
    It might be appropriate to migrate the question "Remove mentions of other sites in Stack Overflow off topic reasons" to Meta.SO from Meta.SE and point this request at that.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Nov 25, 2014 at 20:28
  • 3
    @Shog9 The month after we rolled out that close reason, the number of migration votes for Super User dropped from 4755 to 1173. That could also show that the close reason itself is effective at reducing migrations, regardless of whether or not it mentions "Super User". It's not really a case for leaving "Super User" in that close reason, but it is a case for leaving that general close reason, "Super User" mention or not - which nobody is arguing against. Those numbers don't make the case that "not mentioning Super User in the close reason would increase migrations".
    – Jason C
    Commented Nov 26, 2014 at 6:38
  • 4
    If none of you noticed already, the OP is a Super User moderator...just throwing that out there.
    – gparyani
    Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 17:12

2 Answers 2

53

Yes, please!

Background

Back then, there is only 1 site to ask questions about general computing hardware and software, the Super User. Thus, the closure message seems to be appropriate at that time.

Then, Stack Exchange keeps growing, spawning sites like AskUbuntu, Unix & Linux, Ask Different, Android Enthusiasts, etc.

Now, the closure message seems suggesting to always ask those on Super User, disregarding other more appropriate sites. Every time I flag -usage questions with this, a part of my soul gets torn, since I also have to let user knows the existence of Android.SE. Meanwhile, look at how often Android questions on Super User got closed.

Proposal

I was starting to be active on Android.SE, and not so often finding a question related to developing an Android app. Of course, the first thing that pop-ups in my mind is to flag it. Now, this is one of the off-topic reasons:

Questions about writing and publishing Android apps, writing custom ROMs, and other topics that are primarily of concern to developers are off-topic. Consider taking advantage of other resources that may be appropriate for your question.

Instead of pointing it directly to Stack Overflow, it provides a link. Clicking the link goes to a post on its meta, which seems to be inspired by its MSO counterpart. But here's a difference: Meta Android.SE lists so many alternatives, which I really appreciate it.

Also, Shog mentions something similar to this in the comment

We could consider a "where to ask hardware/software questions that aren't programming questions" topic though.

which I and the OP agreed to

I'd like that part where you link to a FAQ-style page instead of one site. Then you could redirect all things Android, iOS, etc. as well.

So, my proposal is either:

  • Remove the offending sentence, as proposed by OP, or
  • Follow Android.SE approach, as proposed similarly by Shog. (Preferred)
3
  • which one would you prefer? I personally would prefer link-to-post approach, and my upvote went to that one. I'm not sure which one I'm supporting if you have two options in the post.
    – eis
    Commented Nov 26, 2014 at 7:17
  • 1
    I also preferred that one. Instead of leaving users without any hint, it's preferable to guide them!
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Nov 26, 2014 at 7:27
  • 1
    And on a similar point - ServerFault is also recommended as a place to re-ask. (And it isn't often the appropriate place)
    – Sobrique
    Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 15:05
13

Rather than hard-coded superuser/serverfault close options I would like to see a general-purpose close option where you can specify the site that an otherwise decent but off-topic question should ideally be migrated to (with e.g. a popup menu of common sites to select from). Some sites that I would like to see on the list:

  • meta
  • superuser
  • serverfault
  • codereview.SE
  • DSP.SE
  • electronics.SE
  • maths.SE
  • apple.SE
  • askubuntu
5
  • Well, that's basically what the migration option already does, although with fewer sites. For a good reason, because some sites are a superset of some other sites in terms of scope, and people could never decide on where to migrate to. (E.g. you'd end up with people voting for Ask Ubuntu and Super User, although Ubuntu questions are on topic for both of them.)
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 14:38
  • 5
    That might be true for e.g. superuser/askubuntu, but I regularly see questions on SO which unambiguously belong on DSP/electronics/apple/maths/etc, and there is no satisfactory way of dealing with them, other than writing out an explanation, or flagging them for migration, both of which require more effort than is really necessary. It really ought to be a lot quicker/easier to deal with these relatively common cases.
    – Paul R
    Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 14:48
  • 7
    You forgot /dev/null ;) Commented Nov 27, 2014 at 18:55
  • A generic migration option has been discussed at length and rejected categorically (search Meta Stack Exchange ). It won't happen.
    – Joe
    Commented Nov 28, 2014 at 18:57
  • 2
    @TheBlueDog We could vote to migrate to http://devnull-as-a-service.com/dev/null.
    – reirab
    Commented Mar 17, 2015 at 14:21

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