62

When a user posts a question that is, perhaps unknown to them, a duplicate of a FAQ, the correct response is to close the question as a duplicate of the FAQ, with no other answers to the new question. The new question should serve only as a pointer to the FAQ. The new question is retained because although a duplicate, its different wording adds to the set of variations in the ways of asking essentially the same question, and so might assist later searchers. As I understand it, that has always been part of the design of SE; one of the things that makes it more than just another Q&A site.

(You disagree? Consider that a duplicate question is a kind of closed question, and a closed question may have no more answers. Closing as a duplicate must have the intention that duplicates should not have direct answers)

But that is not happening, at least for a popular tag I am interested in (), which has many newcomers. Instead, when a duplicate is posted a race begins. Old hands who are trying to curate the site sigh to themselves, find the original of the FAQ and vote to close as a duplicate. Meanwhile, newcomers who know a little more than the OP, as well as overzealous members, rush to answer the question. In many cases the latter win the race, and gain some up votes and one of them gets accepted as the answer.

Just today I saw yet another question that was a duplicate of "is Java pass by reference". I voted to close, but before I had even done that a user with a reputation over 100k had fired off an answer and got an upvote. When I returned to the question a few minutes later that answer had got two more upvotes.

The newcomers who answer the question know no better, and are not the focus of my question. The longer term users who answer these questions are who I want to talk about. They must know the question is a FAQ, so they must have made a conscious decision to answer the question rather than voting to close.

It seems to me they have been bought by the prospect of some easy up votes. This means the gamification rewards of the system are driving the site quality down, rather than contributing to the site.

The gamification reward for answering a duplicate question must be reduced or eliminated. That is, there should be a mechanism for indicating not only that a question should not have any more answers (closure) but should never have received answers in the first place. And when that happens the answers of the question should give no reputation for upvotes (which has been proposed before, but rejected on weak grounds IMHO), or reduced reputation for up votes (perhaps fairer to those who genuinely did not know the question is a duplicate).

I note that the site moderators can not be responsible for doing this, because of the volume of questions and because it requires knowledge of the subject the question is about. Another super power for gold tag holders, perhaps?

38
  • 37
    Of all the words in the English language there's got to be a better phrase than "rep whore" to describe this. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 7:30
  • 7
    @Flexo Flagrant Gamification Victim?
    – J. Steen
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 7:30
  • 4
    @Flexo in Victorian English that might have been referred to as "players" rather than "gentlemen".
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 7:31
  • 5
    @Flexo I've suggested "rep addict" in the past, but unfortunately "rep whore" is an official meme of Meta.
    – user456814
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 7:33
  • 4
    Worth noting that some people don't believe in closing as duplicate, or believe in a strict interpretation of "exact duplicate", or, slightly less strictly, believe that only the question as written, rather than the underlying problem or its solution are to be considered. In other words, not everyone's doing it for teh repz, although it's a problem regardless.
    – jscs
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 7:36
  • 4
    An "official" meme? My eyes are burning. The cultural weight of a phrase can ensure it takes a lot of effort to remove. It's certainly nothing to so with a single answer on MSE @cupcake. If you want people to stop using it you need to post something here and be eloquent.
    – Ben
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 7:41
  • 4
    @Frédéric Hamidi: You know, I think a lot of people out there would prefer to use "overzealous" to describe people who review and close questions...
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 8:16
  • 20
    How about just "high reputation users"? Low reputation users might not know better; it's the 100k+, gold-badge ones answering obvious duplicates that really make me want to give up on looking for duplicates.
    – Rawling
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 8:21
  • 4
    @fbitterlich If they are answered well, not much really. The problem is that newcomer questions rush-answered by newcomers are seldom more than short fix-my-immediate-issue answers which are either wrong, partly wrong, or simply don't explain the issue well enough to really help anyone long-term. (That's obviously a generalisation.) All the while there may be a duplicate with a great, long, in-depth answer sitting there which would actually spread real knowledge. Catch-a-fish vs. teach-to-fish...
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:26
  • 4
    There is much potential for collateral damage. Answerers might genuinely not be able to find the duplicate. Or a question is much later closed as a duplicate of a newer one, because the newer one is better and has better answers.
    – PlasmaHH
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:29
  • 4
    @Tanner Absolutely, never said so either. I quite dislike the condescending "repwhore" term. It's making assumptions about the answerer's intentions, which are probably often wrong. SO's central point it to ask and answer questions. People do that. They get called names for it. WTF? Just as it may not be obvious for newbs how to ask a good question, not everyone is on the same boat with regards to how to answer them either.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:32
  • 5
    Perhaps the power of Mjölnir could be extended to eliminating reputation gained by answering the duplicate? So no actual penalty, but no gain either, I feel this would nicely put the kibosh on gamification - hell, as a bit of a repwhore myself, it would certainly stop me in my tracks! Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:41
  • 14
    Look ma! I've answered this question more than a dozen times, but I don't seem to be able to find the duplicate. So I'll go ahead and answer it. (Somehow my eyes never seem to find obvious duplicates in the list of "related questions" on the right.)
    – devnull
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:52
  • 4
    It sounds like the problem are not the answers, but users who intentionally don't vote to close. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 10:05
  • 12
    Closed as duplicate, hah. Can we get the answers merged? Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:22

5 Answers 5

70

There should be a rep bonus for being the first to identify the duplicate.

Duplicate questions don't get deleted because they are valuable as signposts, so the act of identifying the duplicates is a valuable contribution to the site.

A rep bonus will create an incentive for people to spend time finding duplicates. As an answerer I sometimes answer questions that I think probably would have a duplicate if I spent enough time looking for it, both because it's quicker and because there's no incentive to find the duplicate.

Also, as others have pointed out a suitably tailored answer tends to be more helpful for the OP anyway, so I'm not sure we should see it as a bad thing that a duplicate gets its own answers too.

A more sophisticated (i.e. more coding, less likely to get done even if it seems like the best solution) variant on a rep bonus for finding a duplicate would be to make "this is a duplicate" into an explicit kind of answer that competes for votes with the real answers, rather than actively closing the question. It could provide less rep per upvote to keep things balanced.

14
  • 10
    I like that last idea.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:43
  • 19
    The idea of giving rep for finding duplicates isn't a bad one, but it also encourages closing questions that are almost duplicates but not quite, also deserving their own answers. By doing so, you're rewarding a behaviour that can potentially stand in the way of a good Q&A. (I'm not saying the idea is completely bad, just that it may have unintended consequences, some of which already exist with the current close as duplicate mechanism indeed.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:43
  • See meta.stackexchange.com/questions/90620/…
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:45
  • See meta.stackexchange.com/questions/226016/…
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:45
  • 4
    It would still require others to agree with your VTC, so there's some counterbalance. But that's the rationale behind the "more sophisticated" variant, because it uses the voting mechanism to identify whether the characterisation as a duplicate is valid or not. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:46
  • 2
    "It would still require others to agree with your VTC" Surely, the asker should have a say to agree whether or not that other question provides any answer to them. (Also partly a problem with the current system.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:47
  • 7
    Perhaps being able to take a link to an existing answer (not question) and posting it as an answer would work? The answer would appear just like regular answers, perhaps specially highlighted or such, maybe Twitter retweet style-ish. Upvotes on that answer would provide the original poster with the regular rep, and the dupe-finder with a little bit of rep.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:50
  • 1
    @deceze, that's not a bad idea. Thinking about what I was saying in my answer, there is something very unsatisfactory with closing as dupe (not just for canonical questions in the end), in the end, in terms of useful knowledge, it's the same as writing an answer that says "Try this http://.../dup", which may be a bit helpful, but rarely provides an actual answer (there's a parallel between dupes and link-only answers in general...). Making advantage that the answer actually is within SO, as you suggest, would certainly be beneficial.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:58
  • I'd +1 the rep bonus for finding duplicates, but strongly -1 the idea making duplicates into special answers. I suggest you split these up into two different answers, we do not really know now what people are voting on :).
    – kapa
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 13:09
  • Would the bonus also apply to those wielding the dupe hammer? Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:10
  • 5
    @Bruno Disagree; giving rep for finding duplicates is a bad idea because it means people will just run around voting everything as duplicates to get rep.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:23
  • @TylerH, so yes, essentially the downsides I mentioned in my comment effectively make it a bad idea indeed :-)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:30
  • +1, the bonus should be big as well, so there's a bigger incentive than more or less copy pasting the answers of existing questions.
    – simonzack
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 8:42
  • I think any action you do that improves SO deserves somekind of reward. Currently, I would like to increase my rep, but that's kinda hard when most common stuff is answered already (earning rep for those users that were lucky enough to get those big answers in early). So I have the option, answer or mark as duplicate. One gets me rep, the other doesn't.
    – john16384
    Commented Apr 10, 2017 at 11:26
22

Firstly, there's a mismatch between the advertised goals of SO ("With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming.") and the way it works "Ask questions, get answers, no distractions" with whole reputation mechanism is purely based on asking questions and writing answers, biased towards writing answers. (In addition "every question about programming" doesn't mention anything about duplicates.)

Reputation aside, many of us who provide answers just do it mostly because they're quite happy helping people and sharing what they know. (Other side effect: some questions can be intellectually challenging, and it's also a good exercise to practice explaining something to someone else.)

Very few duplicates are exact duplicates. There's often something slightly different in the context, or the way the question is asked. I tend to try to tailor my answers to each question, so that it matches the exact problem in the question. This gives the reader (OP or someone else) a better flow to understand the issues in general. Duplicates tend to break that. There was a time were answers to duplicates were moved semi-automatically to the duplicate target, but that's often unsatisfactory in practice: reading the original question and the answers to the duplicate didn't always completely make sense.

"is Java pass by reference" as a standalone question is a bit obvious, but was the full question an exact duplicate? (I suppose in such a simple case it can be.) There are also often little details around that makes the whole Q&A more useful to anyone reading it more useful.

Name calling those who answer such questions just doesn't help. Most answerers do it to help, for free. Those who do it purely for the points are merely playing the game that's put in front of them. Of course, that's why you're suggesting altering those reward rules. The problem is that there's always going to be some grey area of questions that actually are not perfect matches and that someone will have spent time writing a possibly good answer for. That could clearly be unfair on those who spend time trying to help.

Another example, is that it's not always easy to find an exact duplicate. Take this question I answered a few days ago. When I first read it, I thought there was no way it wasn't a duplicate, so I started to look for them. Yet, I couldn't find anything specifically about installing the JDK (as opposed to the JRE) (it also became clear that some of the elements in the comments were also relevant, and made it slightly different to what had been asked before). So, OK, I got 1 upvote out of this, but frankly, I don't care that much, considering the time I've been on SO and the rep I have, getting 10 points is good, but I don't get massively excited about it.

There is of course the notion of canonical questions. Those are a good idea in principle, but SO and its gaming system don't really work well for them.

  • The "canonical" question might be a good idea in principle, but such a question often includes more notions than asked in the question, or at least presented sufficiently differently that the OP won't necessarily understand it. Closing a duplicate towards a canonical question is about as helpful as pointing to a blog in a link-only answer saying ("Try this: http://...").

  • There's no real way of merging existing answers and rewarding the initial authors fairly. Sure, one can copy and paste elements of duplicate answers together into a canonical answer, but you then take the points when others have effectively done most of the research and writing for you. That's just not right, and even if you someone keep the link to credit the initial answers, the authorship trace becomes very tangled (not even sure that would be compatible with the licence). I know editing is encouraged on SO, but editing and authoring are different concepts that are presented in fundamentally different ways (this is why edits that change the answer substantially are discouraged).

I know duplicates can sometimes be annoying, but they're always easier to identify as such when you already know what the cause of the problem is.

13
  • 3
    Very eloquently stated what I've been trying to piece together over several iterations... See, dupes are good. ;)
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 11:49
  • 1
    @deceze, yes, I wonder how Meta users are going to vote on this almost "duplicate answer" (of course, not an exact one) ;-)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 11:51
  • 1
    @deceze, ah yes, downvotes are coming, I was expecting no less.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 11:53
  • This aside, I've seen stuff about "SO being negative" lately and all that. Some seem to blame it on the poor quality of questions (which may well be true), but from an answerer's point of view, what would make me reduce my activity here is the will to close that seems to have increased.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 11:56
  • 2
    Absolutely agreed. Old timers complain about the influx of new content and how to fight against it, newcomers complain about the fighting back. Neither side wins. As I see it, unless SO closes down, this dynamic is not going to change. We should start to learn to live with this situation instead of continually trying to invent new ways to stop it.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:01
  • 2
    @deceze, I admit bad questions can irritate me too, but there are a questions not too badly written by people who genuinely don't know. One closing behaviour that annoys me is for answerable questions that are borderline in terms of subject (i.e. more sysadmin-oriented, but still very relevant for a software developer). Sure we don't all have to agree, but I can ignore questions on say "php" or "javascript", why can't others learn to ignore questions that are very important to fellow developers, but just not them directly (e.g. on "htaccess").
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:10
  • "Very few duplicates are exact duplicates" irrelevant to my question, as I am talking about questions that the community already accepts are duplicates and have been closed as duplicates.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:22
  • 2
    "Another example, is that it's not always easy to find an exact duplicate" irrelevant, as my post is about experienced members who must be aware of the numerous previous duplicates, and would know the appropriate search terms to use.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:23
  • "but SO and its gaming system don't really work well for [canonical questions]" perhaps true, but tangental to my question.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:25
  • 2
    @Raedwald It appears to me you are basing all this on the following premise: 1. Everything that's even remotely answerable by a dupe must be closed as a dupe. 2. People who should know this and aren't doing it must be punished because repwhoring. - To which I say: 1. Maybe the dupe doesn't actually help the OP, maybe he needs it answered in another way. Good developers see similarity patterns, newbs don't. 2. There are more diverse reasons for deciding to not close as dupe, possibly because 1.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:32
  • @Raedwald ... The point being, what's your goal? Work for the system for the system's sake? Or help people that have questions? Undoubtedly these cases you speak of exist and should absolutely be closed. And there are bad questions that should be closed. I just don't see it as such a widespread problem that we have to codify any of that as part of how SO works. Just use your judgement within the existing system.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:35
  • "Everything that's even remotely answerable by a dupe must be closed as a dupe" no. In fact, if you look around Java questions you will see that I (and others) add cross links to similar, but not duplicate, questions using comments.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:35
  • 1
    @Raedwald, about "questions that the community already accepts are duplicates". (A) Of course you're implicitly talking about questions that are to be closed as duplicates, even if they're not yet, since you're talking about the consequences of closing as duplicate. (B) What "the community" accept as duplicates often reflects what just 5 voters, who may just have been beaten into submission just before getting enough rep to vote, have voted to close as duplicate. Remember that once a dup vote is made, it enters the queue where people might not have sufficient knowledge to make an assessment.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:40
8

Proposal: Add "re-answering" as a feature. @GaneshSittampalam shall be credited with the idea, just posting it separately to be able to get separate feedback on it and expand on it.

  • users can take the link to an existing answer and re-post it as answer
  • the answer will appear in the list of regular answers to the question, specially marked so it's clear that it's a repurposed answer (think Twitter's retweet feature)
  • the answer can be upvoted as usual, which will give the regular rep to the original poster, and a little bit of rep to the user who posted it as dupe
  • the answer can be downvoted, but this will not affect the original poster's rep (because the answer may simply be out of place in the new question, due to no fault of the original poster); the user who posted it as dupe loses some rep
  • comments can be left on the answer as if it was a regular answer in this question
  • optionally: once the answer is accepted, the question is closed as duplicate

This would (hopefully) encourage users to find existing answers instead of inadequately recreating answers, while at the same time allowing some tailoring of the existing answer to the OP's particular situation through comments.

7
  • 1
    In case of too many downvotes: It was all @GaneshSittampalam's idea! ;)
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 13:44
  • 1
    I personally like this idea.
    – Liam
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 13:59
  • I like the idea, but if there is no penalty to down-votes on a re-answered question then there is a also possibility of abuse as someone can just keep re-answering a question to anything that seems even remotely related.
    – Jack
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:12
  • @Jack "the user who posted it as dupe loses some rep"
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:14
  • Ah OK, somehow I didn't see that part.
    – Jack
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:16
  • 1
    FWIW I think this is a different proposal to mine, which was just about posting duplicate questions as answers. Posting the specific answers makes much more sense. Commented Jul 13, 2014 at 1:19
  • Related meta.stackexchange.com/a/199050/217863
    – apaul
    Commented Dec 26, 2014 at 19:37
8

Changing the rep might make you feel happier about the problem, but won't solve it.

I occasionally answer questions that end up marked as dupes. I could not care less about reputation at this point, I am not playing the game in that way. I do it because if I know the answer to the question then I'm typically more interested in providing it than I am in curating the site. So if I can't find a dupe quickly myself then I stop looking, and sometimes it doesn't even occur to me to search for dupes before answering (aside from anything else it's really boring, and if SO is boring I stop). Taking away the rep will not change my behaviour.

Very occasionally I even answer questions that already have a vote as a dupe, either because I disagree with it or because I don't think the answers to the dupe answer the new question well. For example, it's not all that uncommon for a valid question with a very simple answer to be a subset of a separate valid question. Then yes, OK, the accepted answer to the big question does indeed answer this question, somewhere in the middle of paragraph 13. I hope nobody is out with pitchforks desperate to prevent this kind of dupes having their own more specialized answers (as well as being closed as dupes). I think the people providing those specialized answers should get rep for it. They're just as valuable to future visitors with the same specific problem, as the general answer is to future visitors with the general problem.

What's needed is tools for the people who want to curate, to make the site be as it should be. In this case I suppose what should happen is an easy means to move one or more of the answers on a dupe over to the original (didn't this used to be called "merging"?). The new answers may or may not merely repeat the old answers exactly, so I would ask those concerned about this problem to lobby for the tools to let them make a sound judgement on this, rather than applying the same rule to all.

Of course not all such answers should be moved. Some because they just repeat the old answers, but also some because they don't properly answer the old question. Unless, of course, the use of the "dupe" close reason is really tightened up to not just mean that the old answers answer this question, but also that any good answer to the new question would answer the old question. That change wouldn't help IMO, in fact it would result in a lot more near-dupes with their own answers. So to me, the solution is to selectively migrate novel answers to the old question, and retain answers that specifically deal with this new version of the question.

7
  • Agreed. The main problem with merging is that it may sometimes require more than just a little bit of editing, the presentation model of SO doesn't really allow for multiple authorship. OK, we're encouraged to edit others' answers to fix little thing, but there's a point where it's more than editing, and there's no mechanism to acknowledge each author properly in this case, unfortunately. SO was never built like Wikipedia.
    – Bruno
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:29
  • @Bruno: yes, my proposed new feature would have to be lighter than a merge. Basically the new answers are moved if they answer the old question, but the questions aren't changed at all (other than the new one gaining the "this is a dupe of X" banner ofc). Then people could gain significant rep from answering "subset dupes", not so much from answering "precise dupes" since their answer soon gets dropped into the existing pool of answers that already has an accepted good answer. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 14:34
  • "Changing the rep might make you feel happier about the problem, but won't solve it." this is not about rep jealously. This is about the gamification rewards of teh system rewarding the wrong kinfd of behaviour.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 15:20
  • @Raedwald: are you saying that (for the purposes of this question) you're not interested in reducing the number of such answers? Your goal is simply that they not be rewarded with rep? Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 15:23
  • @SteveJessop Errr... no, I want to reduce useless duplicate answers by removing or reducing the gamifaction rewards for them.
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 16:03
  • 2
    Well, then changing the rep might make you feel happier about the problem (because you think the answerers are driven by gamification rewards so you think they'll improve). But my best estimate is that it won't help (because I don't think the "longer term users" to whom you restricted your question, are really in it for the rep). Aside from the occasional addict, rep is for herding new users. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 16:44
  • That said, if you're keen on the gamification aspect then you could just downvote. It's a different axis of reward, but I'd guess that almost all long-term users are (in pure rep terms) disproportionately averse to downvotes. I'd pay far more attention to improving (or deleting) an answer that got one upvote and five down, than I would to one that got no votes at all, even though the rep is the same. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 16:50
0

"Repwhores" "overzealous users" is making assumptions about the user's intentions, which are probably often wrong. SO's central point is to ask and answer questions. People do that. They get called names for it. WTF?

Yes, some may do it for the shiny unicorn points. But really, if that's your primary goal in life, you have bigger problems. I suppose there are some people who are high on getting rewards, but I don't think that's the majority of users or that this state lasts very long. My theory, and I know this is way out there, is that people simply like answering questions. Shocker, I know.

Just as we a fighting to educate new question askers about how to ask good questions, we need to educate answerers that answering a question is not actually always the best course of action.

The way I see it, there are pretty much three stages to both sides:

Askers

  • newb: asks terrible questions when he should be using Google instead
  • experienced: asks good questions, to the point, answerable, generalised
  • guru: hardly asks questions anymore, since he has figured out how to fix his own problems

Answerers

  • newb: OMG, programming is so cool, check out this awesome copy and paste code I found, it'll totally fix your issue
  • experienced: posts good, well thought out answers, spreads good knowledge
  • guru: knows when not to answer a question

Instead of punishing users for doing what they're asked to (answer questions) and calling them names, we need to raise awareness of duplicates and why it's better to close questions sometimes. Not everyone is hanging around SO all the time and has seen all the duplicates a million times; not everyone has the same philosophy of SO for that matter.

IMO, as long as an answer isn't outright wrong, there's no reason to punish the user who posted it. If it's a good answer, it deserves upvotes regardless of whether somebody else has already posted a similar good answer before elsewhere on the site. There are a million different reasons for why that user might have posted that duplicate answer instead of close voting (couldn't find good dupe, didn't think dupe was quite on target, doesn't know about dupes, just really felt like answering that particular question, etc.). Don't punish a user that takes good actions (posts a good answer), just because he could have taken an even better action.

Reputation is lost again when duplicates are closed and deleted, so there's no longterm gain for "overzealous users" as long as someone closes the question and it gets deleted.


Trying to summarise my point from the below comments:

  • SO has two conflicting goals:
    1. get as much content and contributions as possible
    2. cut down on the number of contributions to keep quality up
  • SO promotes two conflicting behaviours:
    1. write and contribute as much as possible (to gain points)
    2. stop people from contributing too much (works against gamification)
  • "repwhore" "overzealous" needlessly attributes maliciousness
  • you can't prove "intent"; did the user post the answer because he wants rep, or did he want to contribute, which SO encourages
  • don't punish/not reward users for unwritten rules and/or conflicting promoted goals

The only answer I see in this system is to reward closing as dupe, possibly even more so than writing a new answer. That will have its own problem of probably leading to a lot of bogus, easy, incorrect close votes though. You can hardly win in this either way, at least don't punish people while there's no clear statement on how they should behave.

One last consideration: IMO it's not even bad to have duplicated content, as long as that content is all good. Different people answer the same issue from different angles using different terms. They can all be correct, but some are more understandable to certain people than others. An answer written for an extremely experienced programmer may be useless for a novice, because it sounds like gibberish. Having the same content expressed in "newbie terms" elsewhere adds value, even if it's technically a dupe.

I agree that it's terrifically annoying for regulars to see the same old, same old questions and answers again and again and it just makes you roll your eyes all day long. However, that's because you're a regular. Not everyone feels that same annoyance. Not everyone has seen it a million times. Not everyone gets tired of answering the same question over and over. Not everyone has progressed to seeing SO as the internet's canonical knowledge base instead of the site I like to go to learn and maybe answer a few things I know.

50
  • 9
    SO isn't just about asking and answering questions, it's about working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming. I'd argue that duplciate questions and answers reduce the quality of that library.
    – Rawling
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:50
  • 5
    Re: your edit, we do not want duplicates to be deleted, as they provide more paths to the correct answer(s). Therefore, our overzealous friends get to keep the rep they earn by posting the same answer over and over again. The suggestion to neuter that rep does not strike me as punishment -- after all, answerers will not actually lose reputation in the process. Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:52
  • 5
    @Rawling Agreed. However, that is an implicit goal only apparent to experienced users who know the meta-philosophy behind SO. On the face of it SO is encouraging users to ask and answer questions.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:53
  • 1
    Hardly implicit - that quote comes from the first paragraph of the SO tour!
    – Rawling
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:56
  • 2
    @Rawling Nowhere is anyone introduced to the idea of canonical answers and closing as duplicate though. SO is not really sending a clear message that we want every question only once at all. Understandably so, because those are two opposing goals. SO wants more and more questions to keep the site alive, but they don't want certain types of questions. The contradiction here is what's causing this issue we're debating.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 9:59
  • 2
    @Frédéric Sure. But again, don't assume that user does it because of "repwhoring". There are a million other different reasons why the user decided to answer the question. As long as the answer is good and promotes equally good knowledge as the supposed dupe, there's no harm in doing so either. If the user posts a bad answer, that is/should be taken care of by the regular voting system.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 10:02
  • 3
    "If someone takes the time to post an actual good answer, being blissfully ignorant about existing dupes for whatever reason, and doesn't get the promised reward, that's punishment IMO" - the user can just post his answer on the duplicate instead, as long as there isn't already a better answer with the exactly same solution (in which case it would be useless to have a second, worse copy of it posted as an answer to the duplicate anyways).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 10:09
  • 1
    @Frédéric Please note that I don't disagree on that. Yes, dupes should be closed as dupes, no question. What I disagree on is that all dupe answers are bad and users must be punished/not rewarded for posting them. Answers should be judged on their own merit. If the answer is wrong or misleading or not extensive enough, then don't upvote or even downvote it. However, having the same good knowledge duplicated, perhaps explained in a few different ways from a few different angles by a number of different people, actually adds value IMO.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 10:26
  • 1
    @Frédéric ... Because canonical answers tend to be long and detailed and probably overly complex. If there was only one canonical answer, it may not be the most understandable to everyone. Expressing the same thing in different terms a couple of times is to no one's detriment. As long as each one of these explanations is good, which should be judged individually. I know this gets annoying to frequent users, but what are you going to do about it? Your annoyance should not punish honest contributors (as long as they're honest).
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 10:27
  • 1
    @Frédéric That's hard to implement in practice. Who will decide which answer to move over? Should users keep monitoring all the questions they answered for close votes and retroactively move over their answer? "Nobody" reads more than the first answer anyway, what good is it to have the same answer further down in the same thread? Dupe-answers in the same question are regularly getting downvoted too, because they're seen as plagiarism. You can't really win in this. At least I don't see a clear answer.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 10:44
  • 1
    @devnull If that's the sentiment, I say again we can start talking about closing down and freezing SO's state as is. Congratulations all hi-rep users who joined years ago, new users practically lack any chance of ever progressing to where you are now because we've pretty much seen it all by now. The final boss has been slain, the credits screen starts to roll in a minute.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 11:17
  • 1
    @devnull Why are we all here if not to educate in the first place? If there's no joy in it for you, maybe you shouldn't be here. If the only people hanging 'round SO are people whose joy it is to think about how best to punish users for the sake of the system, it's not a place I want to be.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 11:37
  • 2
    @deceze So you say SO has finally failed its ambitious goals? I always said you cannot have quantity AND quality here at the same time. Do you say we should give up quality then, just to "help" people (this is obviously not real help)? Or should we close down the whole thing? Or leave it and let it be the playground of the unwashed masses, and maybe start over again somewhere else? And be more careful about trying to become "popular" again?
    – kapa
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 12:55
  • 5
    "innocent until proven guilty" on SO is more like "noob until proven able to google and read the docs". And your point about being "saturated" is just plain nonsense; there are always new technologies and thousands of questions for old tech that have not been asked yet. We're just saturated with the same old noob questions from people who are either unable or unwilling to search and read documentation - which is a vicious circle as it causes the harder or more involved questions to drown in a sea of easily-answered almost-duplicates.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 13:33
  • 2
    @deceze I've had these problems with google searches as well. And regarding the unfortunately-named, not-really-about-transgender-issues site, it was doomed to fail because reading the content was blocked - this is why I said "free to read". If they had not hidden their answers behind a pay/login-wall, maybe SO would never exist in the first place.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 10, 2014 at 13:58

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .