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I've seen a user constantly answering blatantly duplicate questions in order to gain reputation. Since starting as a new user, I've tried telling them in comments of this behavior multiple times. I tried to adopt actions from this useful meta post What to do with answer on duplicate question? but I don't see no improvement whatsoever and quickly I see the user with a ~ 20K rep score.

I personally don't like to lose my reputation by down-voting every time on such behavior. And I constantly see no improvement i.e. adding something unique, better answer than the already present answer.

As a constant watcher of the tags the user is contributing, this behavior is upsetting, as a non-moderator what other actions am I allowed to do? I've flagged the answers a couple of times (stating answering a blatant duplicate) but I've got it declined.

I've also read through Rewarding overzealous users for answering duplicate questions is undermining the site but the answers discussed are not yet in place in the site.

I tried using the SO Close Vote Reviewers Chat Room following a now deleted answer for the recent couple of posts I saw the user answering obvious duplicates, but I've received feedback in the chatroom for targeting a specific user. Why should I be?

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    I usually donvote such answers. Especially on obvious dupes the answering user has a gold badge in, they should know better than to answer them.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 10:31
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    Make sense @Cerbrus: Why should I lose my rep to get people use the site better. Personally I hate losing my rep by answering proper questions
    – Inian
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 10:33
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    Meh, I think it's worth the one rep to send a clear message that dupes shouldn't be answered.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 10:34
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    @Cerbrus That generally backfires and people upvote the answer because of the negative score.
    – user2285236
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 10:36
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    @user2285236: I usually also comment with something like "Please don't answer obvious duplicates. Close-vote them, instead.", with good results, but your mileage may vary.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 10:38
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    @Cerbrus: Absolutely agree, you tell that with an intention that the user would change their behavior. But my post is regarding if a user consistently does this
    – Inian
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 10:40
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    @Erik von Asmuth: I modified my question and unaccpeted your answer on request
    – Inian
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 11:54
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    I was the RO that raised the concern about targeting a user. SOCVR doesn't allow moderating a user and that is so strict that even posting two requests for posts of the same user already triggers our warning systems. The chatroom moderates based content and content only. So we're happy to help out to get some questions close or delete voted early on, so they won't be answered in the first place, but when we are asked to handle questions because they are answered by (a) specific user(s), we have to politely decline.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 12:46
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    Another related question: Reputable people keep answering duplicates - What's the solution?, but again, nothing's been done. I think Liam's comment to it summarizes my feelings on the subject. Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 12:54
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    Seriously, try VTD.
    – user202729
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 16:58
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    If it is who I think it is, no, nothing you can do about it. Pretty questionable that you should, an obscure tag on the long tail of SO with a 90.5% answer rate is quite special. That's magic that shouldn't be messed with. It is not a healthy tag community, I see 4 users with substantial contributions but they are not voting on each other's posts. How to fix that is never very obvious, but not sniping at each other surely is on the top of the to-do list. Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 17:49
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    related or duplicate: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/315936/… Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 19:03
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    Stack Overflow should do a better job suggesting duplicates when someone asks a question. I'm not sure why people should be doing the work of identifying duplicates. Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 19:24
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    @GordonLinoff yes, but highrep users should make a small effort to google it... and with some experience, sometimes you know that the question has already been asked; Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 20:05

6 Answers 6

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Yes, it's a known problem plaguing the site for years. I have a shortlist of high-rep users (>100k) in mind which repeatedly answer blatant duplicates, and get upvotes before I can close as such.

Some justify themselves: "what the hell? it's just a database, it doesn't harm if I answer". But:

  • the rep from those answers is ill-gotten, and it increases the user total rep, making the user more "powerful" (wow look at my 400k).
  • we need some duplicates for one issue, but certainly not 1200.

My experience:

  • First, make sure this is a blatant duplicate, not an obscure duplicate. Everyone cannot know all duplicates on the site, and duplicates are useful to some extent (when the question is good, that is). Counter-example: Confusing behavior of sizeof with chars, which is looks very much like a duplicate of the proposed original, but the question & answers are still very useful since in that case, ou have to know the root cause of the issue to know that it's a duplicate, so it's not really a duplicate. I had planned to ask for deletion, now question has 30 votes and answers have even more votes, so who am I to ask for deletion there?
  • flagging doesn't work, moderators have enough issues with spam, low quality answers, etc... They consider that the answer is valid, so it doesn't harm the site.
  • downvoting doesn't work either. Being the first to downvote certainly backfires with counter upvotes. Waiting till the votes calm down can avoid that, but still not very efficient.
  • commenting on the post like "please don't answer duplicates" tend to work on low-rep users, but high-rep users ignore those.

What I do (and it works pretty well):

  • I try to close the question as soon as possible using a long bookmark duplicate list that I've built (and also my answers, since I remember them better)
  • If I see a duplicate being answered and upvoted (regardless of the user), I make note of the question, wait a few days (after 2 days, the question can be voted to delete by 10k+ users), then vote to delete and post a delvote request at SOCVR. Others are free to follow or not, but if the duplicate is blatant, they often do. If the question & answer is deleted altogether, the reputation is lost, and the time the user(s) took to answer as well. Maybe it will educate some people... Let's have hope.

After a few adjustments (thanks to room owners/flowers), I settled my process to avoid implicitly asking to downvote the questions. Waiting 2 days after closure avoids that (else you need -3 score & 20k+ users).

Note that I was never accused of targetting users at SOCVR. It's not my fault if the same rep-hungry people answer dupes... I apply the same process for all users, I just noticed that a reduced group of highrep users have this bad habit. If I was to target something, that would rather be the users reputation, not the users themselves. Counter-example again: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51109671/why-does-it-say-invalid-syntax-when-i-try-to-print-something-in-python (now deleted, link for 10k+ only). I don't know the user who answered, but "python invalid syntax" questions are most of the time a case of deletion.

Final advice: sometimes you see duplicates everywhere, whereas the questions are different, even slightly. In that case, just let it go. Same with rare duplicates.

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    The key element here is that the question is moderated which is why this can work in the SOCVR room. You've indeed worked out under which conditions we won't notice. I think both voting and comments would be interesting to follow to see if Meta raises objections. Personally I'm not a fan and another answer that basically said the same was deleted earlier. Maybe I'm to careful.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 20:26
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    let's say the loss of reputation is a side effect of the question being deleted. As you helped my improving my requests skills, I can formulate valid requests. Yes, Erik answer was similar but mine is more "moderate": 1) avoid targetting users, and 2) don't see everything as a duplicate like Tigerhawk used to do (before disappearing completely from the radar...). Let's see how it goes, see you in chat :) Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 20:31
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    Let me inform you and other viewers that we're putting this practice on the agenda of the next room meeting (in 6 to 8 weeks) to see if we are confident that this approach helps in the overall goal of maintaining and building a high quality collection of questions and answers.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 20:42
  • that is great. If it is decided that it's inappropriate to do so, I'll stop. Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 20:45
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    @gnat Our past roommeetings are listed here with links per meeting to both transcript and rulings. I'm happy to post a summary for this particular topic when the meeting has taken place or ask Jean-François to edit one into his answer.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 22:20
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    Targeting a user is not permitted, in whatever form. However, we ROs are not perfect. We don't catch everything. There are often well over 100 requests posed each day (106 in the last 24 hours; not including reports from bots). Our automatic checks have focused on checking the author of the post for which the request was made, rather than also checking for requests on questions where there are answers by the same user. In addition, those checks have also been over too short of a time period to catch the targeting contemplated here. Looks like we need to expand those checks.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 23:47
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    @Makyen wrt deletion of duplicates, you got to be kidding. Per my reading this answer quite clearly limits the advice to only blatant ones and even additionally warns to avoid zealous approaches when it's a grey area. Wrt the reference to the question I can't see your point sorry: per my reading answer clearly explains that using SOCVR this way is unacceptable. As for the shortlist, I fail to see how it violates the rules your mentioned because OP clearly doesn't use it for del-requests; frankly it feels like you kind of bend the SOCVR rules to fit your personal interpretation here
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 0:42
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    As to deleting the identified questions in general: what's being advocated is not "let's delete this duplicate question because the question is causing harm in some way." It's "let's delete this duplicate question so the user who answered doesn't get reputation points for answering this question." The intent of what's advocated isn't to moderate content, it's to moderate users, which is explicitly something that SOCVR doesn't do.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 1:14
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    I've edited my post. When I say "I have a shortlist", the shortlist made itself, but that doesn't make me decide to post a delvote or not. The blatantness of the dupe does. The fact that a high rep user answers annoys me more, and the fact that it's a "known" high rep users annoys me most. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 4:30
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    @user202729 true, but only to some extent. You wouldn't believe how many times some questions are asked. For instance in python, the frequent errors about if a or b or c == 12 or the crap questions about is like "why a is 5 is sometimes true sometimes false..." Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 4:50
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    this is just a perverse effect: users get rep, site gets cluttered by noise. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 4:51
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    Further discussion in chat on mod request but as an RO of said room I find this statement important to be made public here (slightly adapted from what you find in the chat transcript): The key element in this answer is that the question is moderated which is why this can work in the SOCVR room. You've indeed worked out under which conditions we won't notice. This practice is on the agenda of the next room meeting (in 6 to 8 weeks) to see if we are confident that this approach helps in the overall goal of maintaining and building a high quality collection of questions and answers.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 9:42
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    @Pekka웃 you're not in my shortlist, no, fortunately, there is a vast/overwhelming majority of highrep users who deserve their rep by posting good answers. It's just that a minority makes them look bad. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 12:25
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    "Maybe it will educate some people... Let's have hope" - yeah sure, it will educate people how to better hide from the almighty eye in the sky ;)
    – Gimby
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 12:30
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    the almighty eye in the sky is thanking you for the compliment :) Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 12:30
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Essentially, there's nothing you can really do besides downvoting the answer (costs you reputation and attracts upvotes from people who think: "But this is correct! Why is it downvoted?") and close voting the questions.

You could also comment to ask them to stop, but you should take care on how to phrase such a comment, and the effect it can have is very limited.

Other than that there's not a lot you can do about that, and I don't think moderators would step in to stop it, either.

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    "you should take care on how to phrase such a comment" - it must be welcoming to the perpetrator, specifically Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 1:51
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    @JohnDvorak More like, you're trying to affect someone's behavior in a comment. It's important in doing so that the comment itself isn't degrading, as shaming people into changing their ways often backfires spectacularly
    – Magisch
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 4:46
22

Instead of rewarding only answers, the site should also reward (with rep) proposing duplicate target(s).

It will help low-rep users to gain reputation and at the same time train users to follow the intended behavior.

I admit that I earned some of my reputation first by answering some quite simple question, then thinking and searching for a duplicate.

The site rewards me for keeping an already accepted / upvoted answer on a duplicate question, and punishing me for deleting it (though deleting it would sometimes be the correct action, in order to let the question being cleaned up automatically).

I don't know how I could have reached my small 5k and earning a meager language bronze badge, if it weren't for a part of answering those sometimes easy (but on-topic) questions.

EDIT : writing down here interesting related comments, in case they are cleaned up

  • A duplicate review queue could make sense to specifically confirm the duplicate targets and the rewards (CPHPython)

  • for high-rep users who can already dupe hammer, it doesn't make much sense to reward them even more, and could even be considered unfair. (Denys Séguret)


EDIT 2 :

I'd like to add that... if someone has already participated in 100s or 1000s of duplicate close votes / duplicate flagging confirmed by community, wouldn't it make sense to trust them more, as we do for people who answer questions correctly ?

Maybe rep is not the good reward, but tag points (the points that lead to badges) could be another way.

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    With a duplicates review queue backing this rewarding system idea, this could actually pinpoint all duplicates. Example of possible options: 1) the question/answer is an integral copy of X 2) wording is different but the solution is the exact same 3) there are slight differences in the code (variable renames) but no significant improvement upon X. Once it was approved for deletion, the user's who voted for deletion would get a percentage related to the number of users that voted as duplicate (or 1).
    – CPHPython
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 11:32
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    I often vote to close or directly hammer questions. Users are already often enough reacting badly. I can't even imagine the reactions if they could also legitimately suspect that I'm closing in order to gain more rep points. Please, I don't want rep points for moderating or closing! Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 11:45
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    well, I do. I do also think that, the more the gamification system rewards me, the better the rewarded behavior is. And the fact that the site tends towards more duplicate linking than direct answering is a natural (and good!) thing, but it also give some "hopeless" feeling, which I share.
    – Pac0
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 12:27
  • Maybe some system similar to the editing rewards (which caps at 2k), but duplicate targetting cap should be higher (let's say.. 200k for instance :P , or more seriously to those who already have a dupe hammer, like those who already can edit a post on their own don't earn any more rep)
    – Pac0
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 12:28
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    We've discussed this idea - rewards for finding duplicates - a lot over the years. Spoiler: it's a lot of work to implement cleanly. IMHO, the cleanest solution is to attack it head-on: stop treating dup-closure the same as normal closing (it isn't), and start treating them like answers - ideally, this sets up a level playing field: answering and finding compete head-to-head, with the fastest, most useful solution the winner.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 17:51
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    @shog9 thank you for the info and the link... apparently answers are also duplicates, especially on meta :) . I very much like this because it goes with the "more welcoming" current trend, and is a way to embrass community (even low rep) more. However, I still feel that the proposal lacks some rewarding IMHO.
    – Pac0
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 17:53
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    Well, that proposal is 5 years old now @Pac0; we've learned a bit since then. In particular, I think it's fair to say we could allow duplicate suggestions to garner reputation if they proved useful to the asker - we already allow askers to confirm duplicate suggestions, an action that accounts for something like 12% of all duplicate closures (85% are closed by gold badge holders).
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 18:14
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    If the askers confirm, I'd agree to this. Otherwise I've experienced one too many poor dupe targets myself to support this idea without it.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 23:08
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    @Shog9: As a gold badge user, I'd be perfectly fine not gaining any reputation from duplicate and instead having my approval give reputation to whoever proposed the duplicate. Commented Jul 26, 2018 at 8:42
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I'd say the issue is related to the poor search functionality of the site.

I frequent the java tag, and I close obvious duplicates (and then deal with the "this is not a duplicate!" comments). The standard ones are easy, since I remember the canonical answers and how to find them. The problematic ones are those that are obvious duplicates, but it's impossible to find a proper question to close them for.

Perhaps adding tags for the search would be possible, so I could add java as a tag to the search instead of searching for "java what is nullpointerexception".

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    It's a known problem (proposed many times, SE refused to change), and people should do a custom Google search for site:stackoverflow.com <question_title> instead.
    – user202729
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 7:55
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    And -- (for Stack Overflow search) yes you can search for [java] to force-search-tag. Use "binary search" to force-search-content.
    – user202729
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 7:56
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    @user202729 ah thanks, I didn't realize [java] worked. That'll certainly help a bit. The custom Google search works, but for example when you're creating a new question the duplicate suggestions will be from SE search...
    – Kayaman
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 7:58
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First off... There's absolutely nothing to be gained by starting fights with folks who are able to answer questions well.

Full stop. It's counter-productive; don't do it. We need each others' help to make this work; making enemies out of the folks working toward the same goals just creates more work, more isolation, more friction for tomorrow.

That means if you're leaving a comment, make that comment useful in some way: it should help the author of the post or at least the folks trying to use the information in the post. "Hey, I think this question is a duplicate, could you help close it as such?" is about the best you could do here if that's the problem you're trying to address.

Worrying about "unfair" reputation in these contexts is... Kinda silly. The main purpose of closing duplicates is so that we don't have to keep answering the same questions; if someone is answering them badly, that's a problem even if they're not duplicates; if someone is answering them well... Then, it's mostly their own time they're wasting.

But please, please, do not downvote good answers - even if you feel irritated by the actions of the author, this breaks the cardinal rule of voting: votes should be cast based on the content of the post, not your opinion of the author.

If the question is an exact duplicate - if the answers posted to it are directly applicable as answers to the original - then you can flag the question and ask that a moderator merge it. This moves the answer(s) to the original, and sets up the duplicate to redirect for folks who find it via search; that's pretty handy, but only works in cases where the answers don't need a lot of edits.

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    The use of words like "harvesting" and the allegation of "no improvement [over the] present answer" seem to be painting the person in question as... not exactly answering the duplicate questions well to begin with. But that could also just be due to the asker's view of this behavior as deeply troubling skewing their view of the entire matter.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 17:19
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    Yeah, I intentionally didn't try to divine the person or answers which triggered this... Because it really shouldn't matter: if they're crap answers, downvote 'em; if they're good, upvote 'em. Duplicate or no dup.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 17:20
  • @Shog9 : Thanks for this point. So how will this be propagated to other users. I still know lot of users like who jump on duplicates answers and questions like me. So how would I convince them stating your point.
    – Inian
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 17:41
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    Easiest (though not overly effective) way is to start flagging unhelpful comments, @Inian. Next step up is to start providing your own (helpful) comments. Next would be engaging directly: "hey @someone, this is a good answer; if the question is a duplicate, then encourage the author to vote/flag as such, don't attack 'em."
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 17:46
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    "The main purpose of closing duplicates is so that we don't have to keep answering the same questions", I thought the actualy purpose was to have a single place of knowledge for a unique problem, where the answers can compete in voting. So if I google the problem, I can immediately evaluate which solution I realy want to use? The mission of Stack Overflow is to build a repository of Q&A for every programming problem. Wouldn't more fraction be counter productive for future readers? Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 1:31
  • And I think between the lines of the question the motivation is: Would an answer given on the original question compete the same as on a duplicate? Or wouldn't it, because it is just iterating an already given answer (hence the rep harvesting assumption) Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 1:57
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    That's the goal of the site but dup-closing is kinda not very effective in terms of furthering that goal, @Christian; quite honestly, you get almost the same effect here by just posting a link in a comment and calling it a day. Cross-linking is massively important, but closing is mostly orthogonal to accomplishing that.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jul 7, 2018 at 2:22
  • @Shog9 I definitely agree with that. Most of my SO activity is searching for answers to my problems rather than asking or answering questions. Even when a question is closed as a duplicate, I make sure to check the Linked Questions section for any relevant information before going to the linked duplicate.
    – Chris
    Commented Jul 10, 2018 at 14:38
-14

I'm going to propose a different answer:

This is not actually a problem.

Suppose I post a question about C++. It gets closed as duplicate, because there's an answer from 2009 about the same question.

Ah, but suppose someone answers. There's a good chance they'll answer with the modern capabilities of C++, not the capabilities as of 2009. A lot has changed in C++ since 2009. I'd much rather have a 2018 answer about C++ than a 2009 answer.

If questions are always closed as being duplicates rather than being answered, this site will eventually be full of nothing but out-of-date information, and people will leave.

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    Why not answering on the duplicate target then, if you have something to add? Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 14:15
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    That's quite an extreme case. But you've (the op) always got the ability to reference said old dupe and explain why it isn't.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 14:15
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    Because I'm the one asking the question. How am I going to post an answer on the old question if I'm asking the question in the first place?
    – Ryan Lundy
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 14:22
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    Thanks. Now show me a few cases where that has actually worked and not gotten closed as duplicate nonetheless.
    – Ryan Lundy
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 14:25
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    @RyanLundy: "A lot has changed in C++ since 2009." And a lot of things haven't changed. Unless you're asking about something that has changed, then why would an answer from 2009 be invalid? Furthermore, just because the question is from 2009 doesn't mean people can't post new answers. Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 14:37
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    It also doesn't mean the answer is any different or that the authors of the answers haven't kept it up to date over the years.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 6, 2018 at 14:39
  • @NicolBolas, if it took 20 lines to do it in 2009, and in 2018 it takes 2, I'd much rather know how to do it in 2. That doesn't mean that the 20-line answer has to go away; some people might be maintaining old code that they can't update. But if I ask how to do it in 2018 and I'm given the 20-line answer, then SO has failed. The assumption here seems to be that people will update existing questions. But that in turn assumes they'll go looking for questions they already know the answers to. I'm baffled at why all these downvoters apparently think people will do that.
    – Ryan Lundy
    Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 10:35

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