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One reason I participate by answering questions on SO is to help newbie questioners learn the trade we share. It's an altruistic, "give-back", sort of thing for me.

I look for questions that offer opportunities for answers like "if you think through this problem using thus-and-such a concept, you'll get a working solution. For example, here's some code that might do that. See how this works? Blah blah blah. You can apply it to your situation. Etc."

This sometimes has the desired effect: the question and other people learn something, and sometimes I do too. That's gratifying.

But often I find that I've overestimated the questioner's capability. He then does something dumb like deleting a method and replacing it with the text of a partial SQL query from my answer. He comes back with a comment saying "that didn't work" and a syntax error. Now I have some choices:

  1. downvote and ignore the question going forward (easiest).
  2. engage by editing my answer in response to his comment. I sometimes make it a community wiki answer when I do that. In my experience, nobody "gets" community wiki.
  3. Put a suggestion (wait! that was SQL code, not Java code! Use it like so!) in a comment.
  4. Write a comment like this: "with respect, you need to learn more about how tech A fits with tech B before you will be able to tackle this problem successfully."

So dear fellow professional and enthusiast programmers, what's the right thing to do when the questioner isn't equipped with the skills to use an answer? Should I put a close-vote on the question? There's no specific close-reason saying "it's unclear TO YOU what you're asking"? Should I offer a reference to a tutorial on a comment? Should I delete my answer?

Or should I find a different volunteer activity where I can give back by helping n00bz get started?

Any experiences you've had with this are welcome.

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  • 26
    Being a pretty new noob myself (and admitting it too.. ;) ), I would just say that we were all noobs at one time or another... Thanks for the help to all you noob helpers... :D Commented May 20, 2014 at 14:47
  • 5
    I think attempting to answer their question is always helpful with an explanation. My only pet peeve are the questions that are easily answered by slapping in a break point; those waste everyone's time.
    – TyCobb
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:37
  • 57
    It's important to distinguish between the question and the questioner. If you've posted a helpful answer to a question others might have, and so may end up helping other people who find it by searching, then you've done some good, even if it's lost on this particular questioner. Ignore or briefly reply to comments if you will; but make the answer good enough that you've left the web better than you found it, be appropriately pleased with that, and move on. Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:04
  • 13
    "He then does ..". Err, "She then does ..."? Or "They then do ..."?
    – Christine
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:38
  • 43
    There's no specific close-reason saying "it's unclear TO YOU what you're asking"? I miss you, "minimal understanding." I really do.
    – roippi
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:41
  • 2
    Can stubbornly not-understanding the issue lead to tooth gnashing? Sure: stackoverflow.com/questions/23732776/…
    – Jongware
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 22:28
  • 21
    @Christine, I chose the masculine pronoun deliberately here. In my experience, a female questioner has never done this.
    – O. Jones
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 1:19
  • As a newbie on here, I have tried a few different things; but I've settled with this type of answer where applicable.. I'm not sure though: stackoverflow.com/questions/21395400/…
    – Damien
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 4:19
  • 1
    Of course, you sometimes get the newbies who just don't get it, and then when you try to (nicely) explain it to them and tell them what they are doing is impossible, they rage quit (I had a nice recent example, but the rage quit caused the post to be mod deleted). Makes answering and helping much less fun :*( Commented May 21, 2014 at 4:33
  • 4
    I go with, more or less timeboxing. If I took the time to answer and a comment appears (or similarly left a comment waiting for new information to be added to the question before answering) and within x comments or x minutes it's not resolved - I e.g. leave a link to the relevant docs and a "good luck" comment and bow out. It's not long-term sustainable to hold hands to the finish line - they get an answer and don't learn, and you get frustrated wasting your time.
    – AD7six
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:51
  • 3
    Yeah, it's irritating because in about 70% of these it's a question that either (1) could be easily answered by reading readily-available documentation, or (2) a question that indicates the writer is operating WAY outside his sphere of competence and needs to learn A LOT more before attempting what he's attempting. And you try to gently guide them in the right direction and they either don't follow your instructions ("copy the error message here") or get in a huff because you won't give them an easy answer.
    – Hot Licks
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 0:32
  • 1
    On occasions, I have had other members of the community mark me down and berate me in the comments for avoiding the hand-holding approach.
    – Maximas
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 11:03
  • 5
    Exit strategies for Chameleon questions
    – user2140173
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 8:28
  • 2
    @Christine - much as it sound like a sexism (even if a good kind), I personally always found that women developer are a LOT less apt to act like clueless help vampires. 99.9999% someone acts like that, they are male. Even when you restrict this to demographics that is equally gender-split.
    – DVK
    Commented May 25, 2014 at 18:22
  • 2
    Does this answer your question? "What to do when someone answers" - Don't be a chameleon, don't be a vandal Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 15:31

15 Answers 15

81

As one of the people who probably fits into the broad and diverse category of newbies, let me offer a perspective.

  • An unhelpful response is one that gives me the syntax and code snippets.

  • A helpful response is one that explains the concept, principles, and conventions. Examples and snippets that illustrate the idea are helpful but secondary.

  • A helpful response sometimes decodes the jargon

Whether or not a response is punctuated with a snarky remark is just a matter of your sense of humor... I actually enjoy the humor.

One principle that occurs to me is this: If the newbie is lazy, a response may just enable more of the same behavior. But if a newbie is mistaken, a carefully constructed correction can be a life changer. I was the beneficiary of such an interaction this week (specifically on code readability). Lightbulbs went on.

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  • 77
    Don't underestimate the value of code snippets. As a veteran, I still prefer these over almost any other guidance.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:50
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey I agree with you, but that is a question unto itself. There seems to be a growing discontent with snippets as answers. There is somewhat of an expectation of hand holding that is expected by the community to warrant an upvote.
    – crthompson
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:51
  • 22
    I certainly think a brief explanation of how the code works or solves the OP's problem is appropriate.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:51
  • Is there an answer to the question here?
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 5:49
  • 4
    I agree on the value of the snippets. My point was only that a snippet solution without adding conceptual clarity is let's the newbie formulate his/her own generalization -- if X is true in this case it is true in all cases. So understanding the context and implied limitations is helpful.
    – plm
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:04
  • 4
    I disagree on the value of "snippets", unless they're used to focus on a coding error or demonstrate a technique. Just providing the code is counter-productive and only encourages the OP to come back with more "stupid" questions.
    – Hot Licks
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 0:35
  • 3
    Do both, snippet and explanation. Commented May 22, 2014 at 1:05
  • @HotLicks One possibility would be to use a code snippet that demonstrates the problem, but not using the OP's code... Not sure how helpful that would be, though
    – Izkata
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 17:40
  • I thought there was an expectation that op has, at least, a minimal understanding of what they're trying to achieve? A "snippet-answer" to a well asked question is better than a detailed answer referencing to the standard when that level of detail bogs the answer down. Commented May 31, 2014 at 4:50
33

Option 4 is pretty easy to just toss out. In my experiences, there are just too few people who are actually capable of reading a comment like that and not being offended and picking a fight, regardless of how true it is.

For options 3 and 2 (which are just two avenues of the "help the user out" option), you need to be very, very careful. It's just so easy to get sucked in, wasting a ton of your time, and usually accomplishing very little. These users just become a huge drain on your time, energy, and patience, often won't be able to get to a working solution even with your help, and almost certainly won't learn a thing, so they'll end up with exactly the same types of problems two hours later and not know how to fix them.

Generally I strive (often unsuccessfully) to not put myself in that position, and to just walk away. If you do decide to respond, you should be very careful to limit yourself to just a few responses. One simple fix, a push in the first direction, something to test whether the user just go stuck on one point (or possibly even to consider that your answer has a mistake) or whether they just don't have the ability to understand and apply your answer. You should be putting up your guard and looking for warning signs that you should be leaving.

So while it sometimes seems mean to just go with option one, in many situations it really is the best option for everyone involved.

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  • 3
    I have experimented with all these approaches and I find your answer to be spot-on. I have even experimentally chatted with some users. Most of the time to be disappointed by their disability/unwillingness to learn.
    – usr
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 20:12
  • @usr: they just kept on asking for more codez?
    – Jongware
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 22:22
  • 1
    "too few people who are actually capable of reading a comment like that and not being offended" it's not offence that is the problem, the problem is that it a) does not help and b) does not leave any further avenues open. I think it is natural to be frustrated at such comments. Commented May 25, 2014 at 20:36
  • 2
    @zespri It absolutely helps. If someone doesn't realize the magnitude and complexity behind a problem they are attempting to solve helping them understand that they don't currently have the ability to tackle that problem is very helpful. Certainly it's more helpful than spending a whole bunch of time explaining concepts that they won't understand; such explanations will seem more helpful, and the question asker will appreciate it more, but if they don't have the ability to understand it then in the long run you're just wasting everyone's time.
    – Servy
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 13:58
30

Personally, I find it exhausting to help people that aren't cognitively equipped to understand the answer(s) to their question(s), and in that case, it's usually because something in their design is horribly, horribly wrong (PHP tag, I'm talking to you).

Sometimes, I'm on the fence about whether or not OP understands what they're trying to do, and I'll go ahead and provide a basic answer, but when it becomes abundantly clear that the entirety of their code is copy/paste snippets from various sources and they don't understand the basics, I bow out (e.g. When someone asks what WHERE 1 means in a query).

It's not always graceful, but the logic is pretty simple: I'm providing answers on my own time; I don't like wasting it. My wife gets an earful if she wastes 15 minutes of my time, so why would I give a pass to a clueless newbie for wasting 30?

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    Please let us know how long your marriage lasts. ;)
    – crthompson
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:53
  • 4
    @paqogomez She made me waste 2 hours today reconciling a spreadsheet based on faulty information that she provided. Guess who is no longer keeping track of her business expenses? =D
    – Noah
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:55
  • 14
    And the bed is no longer keeping track of your pillow i'd wager. ;)
    – crthompson
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:57
  • 1
    How do you "bow out," @Noah? Do you just start ignoring the question? Do you say something in a comment?
    – O. Jones
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 1:12
  • 7
    Best wishes for your wife. She must be a brave lady.
    – devnull
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 3:05
  • No offense, but is this an answer to the question? Or .. what is this one?
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 5:47
  • 4
    @OllieJones I usually note in the comment something like "It's clear that your efforts would be better spent learning the basics of _____ and _____. I'd suggest looking at [concept 1] and [concept 2], first". Sometimes, the OP responds "Thanks, I'll check it out". Sometimes, the OP ignores me. Sometimes, OP says "Yeah, but what's the answer?"
    – Noah
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 14:11
  • If somebody asks a simple question like "what does 'where 1' mean?", how can you not take two seconds to help that person out? At that point "bowing out" because you're annoyed by noobs is just selfish. You were once a noob too and somebody at some point explained it to you.
    – Vincent
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 17:28
  • 5
    @Vincent: Or you could just type the same question into Google and learn what it is. Why should we help someone who is unwilling to learn? Commented May 23, 2014 at 17:37
  • The Google search only works if the same question has already been asked and answered on a site like this. If we stop answering the simple questions then Google's not going to have the answers either.
    – Vincent
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 20:56
  • 5
    Crazy thought... but... Does nobody look at documentation, anymore? Or invest 12 seconds in a tutorial? The mindset of supernewbs is to be spoonfed the most basic information. With such little effort on their part, they can't possibly expect that I'd put any more effort into giving them exactly what they want. Internet points be damned.
    – Noah
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 21:11
  • @Noah - The docs are not very helpful for some beginners or especially people who are learning on their own. There is a good reason why we have books like head first series, step by step etc. and numerous blogs with little examples. They make the learning process simpler by giving you the bare minimum needed to get started. After that, one can RTFM. Commented May 25, 2014 at 18:34
  • @Noah - I wanted this point about reading manuals to be separate. If a tourist in your home city wants to fly back to his home country forever, do you tell him to memorize the whole map of your home city or just give him enough to get to the airport ? If it was a permanent resident, then I'd help him once or twice and then tell him to RTFM. Commented May 25, 2014 at 18:36
  • 1
    @BoratSagdiyev It was a play on words. As she is no longer keeping track of his business expenses, so too is the bed not keeping track of his pillow (he's sleeping on the couch). Looses a bit when it needs explaining ;)
    – crthompson
    Commented May 26, 2014 at 18:24
  • 6
    @BoratSagdiyev A developer attempting to implement a solution in a production environment isn't very well likened to "a tourist wanting to go home forever". I'd compare it to someone wanting to pilot a commercial jet, and asking about what one specific readout means, without understanding anything else about how to fly a plane, then getting upset that I'm suggesting that he learn how to take off, land, and steer before going forward.
    – Noah
    Commented May 27, 2014 at 16:52
26

As the turbo noob I was (and maybe still am), I can say there's a thin line separating a noob and a lazy asker, which is someone who asks "I have X problem, solve it for me" and expects "Here's X solution, ready to copy-paste" but don't really care about the background of the answer, the Why?'s involved. I think this site was made to share knowledge and help people learn, it's not an Online tutor nor a 24/7 teacher online. Answers based on your approach of:

"if you think through this problem using thus-and-such a concept, you'll get a working solution. For example, here's some code that might do that. See how this works? Blah blah blah. You can apply it to your situation. Etc."

Are what helped me escape that noob-zone and understand (not just know) many things now. I'd say people who answer should focus on the background of an answer and base them on analogies or similar code and keep this community as sane as it is. And as for people like you: thank you.

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    Turbo noob sounds like a beautiful ideal. Commented May 21, 2014 at 2:01
8

The best way to deal with this is to just not put yourself in a situation where you have to deal with it. It is very rare that you can't get a hint from the way the question was asked. A major tell that your answer won't be understood is from the words he uses, he'll slip on common terminology for example. And, preferably, a code snippet although you tend to have to live without one. Strong hint in itself. If you respond to a one-liner question, so you can't tell, then you already have low odds to get somewhere. Anybody that spent at least a couple of hours trying to solve the problem himself will know to write at least a few paragraphs.

This was a major reason that SO users used to demand more from the questioner. The "What have you tried?" comment was pretty common, outlawed today.

This works the other way around too. A completely newbie can get a lot of help from SO, with plenty of I-was-a-newbie-once-too sympathy, if only he makes it obvious. Unfortunately they tend to avoid it, they'll feel awkward about posting their completely borken code for example. Big mistake, nobody cares that it is junk. It was a given, he wouldn't ask a question otherwise. But that junky code gives lots of hints to an expert in how to best approach the answer. There are many ways to answer a question, intentionally omitting details or highlighting them. You'd never want to risk getting a highly technical one with lots of excruciating details that are completely over your head if all you needed was a nudge in the right direction, "delete the semi-colon" style. Do keep in mind that starting with "I'm a noob" isn't good enough, that doesn't give any hints at all. Every programmer is a noob at something.

But that's up to the questioner now, we can't help him anymore by asking what he tried.

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  • 7
    "What have you tried?" Comments are no longer allowed? Ugh.... How are we supposed to help OP help himself now? There will be a lot of people who just get their questions row voted without a clue as to WHY. Sorry to rant. That's just disappointing.
    – RubberDuck
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 1:58
  • Is that outlawed? I've been commenting variations of it and not gotten a response telling me stop. Commented May 28, 2015 at 10:27
  • It is just blocked, but the blocking code isn't smart enough to detect variations of it. Such a comment tends to not live long, usually flagged as "Rude" and quickly deleted again. YMMV. Commented May 28, 2015 at 10:35
7

SO is not about hand holding. Its about creating a repository of questions. If a question is answerable then I answer it. If the person is not capable of asking an answerable question because of their skill level they have some more homework to do. I politely tell them that I am voting to close their question because it is not appropriate for the site. If no one else has done it, I encourage them to work through some accessible material searching and/or posting questions as specific things come up.

This results in one of several responses(listed in order of frequency):

  1. The overwhelming majority never reply I can only assume this is because their question is part of a mass spam campaign.

  2. They are grateful.

  3. They give me a sob story about how they are desperate for an answer right now.

The 1's I am indifferent to, the 2's are good because they are the people that have the potential to come back and contribute, and the 3's I just ignore because their level of desperation is irrelevant.

One side note is that I am very careful not to give OP's any glom inducing details until their question starts to look hopeful. Once I've told them objectively what is wrong with their question the ball is in their court.

I'd like to emphasize the key here is politely and objectively. I don't tell people to go away, I'm not rude or abrasive, and I don't close unless the person is at least afforded the opportunity to understand why. Some people are hopeless, but others just need a nudge in the right direction.

4
  • Person A asks vague question, then I ask "Can you try this?" in an effort to get more debug details. I then end up with this person "glommed" on to me. I engage in 50 more iterations of "That didn't work -> What are you seeing?" because I feel obligated to help them solve their problem.
    – nsfyn55
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:17
  • This is an example of where I was skirting the boundaries with a "glommer" stackoverflow.com/questions/23914680/…. His original question was poorly formatted and lacking any salient details. I originally voted to close, but I think we ended up turning it into something serviceable.
    – nsfyn55
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:20
  • from google search for "define: glom". To become stuck or attached to
    – nsfyn55
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:23
  • thanks for not glomming ... I guess?
    – nsfyn55
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 19:34
5

While it's always good to answer a question once the requirement has been made clear enough to provide an answerable question, the worry that there's not enough understanding on the part of the asker to really "get" the answer is always a worry.

I could be that I've wildly misunderstood the purpose of SE, but I've always perceived it as a place where people come to ask specific questions which they hope to get solved. Any learning that comes from this action is a pleasant incidental - SE is not supposed to provide tutorial style content.

So, if I answer a question, and find that repeated edits/comments on the part of the questioner make it clear that they're not equipped to understand the answer, I think the right course of action is to find a relevant tutorial, point them at it with a firm but supportive comment that they really need to learn more basics, and then disengage.

5

If I were a marketer and I were trying to sell hand-holding, I'd call it pair-programming. However, stack-overflow comments are not a very good pair-programming environment, and there is definitely a point where pair-programming, even in a more high-minded sense, becomes doing someone else's work for them, and trains them to shut down mentally when they run into a problem. I'd do the following:

  • Check your answer for improvements that will help people other than just this one person, without trying to cover so many bases that the answer becomes bulky and time-consuming to follow.

  • If the person makes you realize that there are caveats to your answer, or that there are some likely pitfalls, but these things don't warrant weighing down the answer with extra bulk, AND you think that more than this person would benefit from these footnotes or caveats or whatever, put them in a comment that replies specifically to JUST THOSE RELEVANT THINGS.

  • If their issue is that they really just lack basic background information, then you could say something like this in a comment, "I think my answer works, but it looks you're having a problem with your [Ruby syntax|algorithm|table structure|computer keyboard|basic concept of reality] which is a little outside the scope of the question. You're probably going to have to [learn more about Ruby|rethink the design|normalize your data|turn it upside down and shake it|visit a psychiatrist] before you can go on, or possibly post another question."

  • If you're feeling really altruistic, take your hand-holding to some more useful medium, and here's my off-the-cuff rule of thumb about the threshold between hand-holding and mentoring: If they show that they are learning, you're doing well, but if they keep banging against the same wall again and again without any sign of trying to go around it, they need some other kind of help. If you're spending too much time helping them, then be honest, and say, "I don't have enough time to go further, sorry, maybe later." and possibly "I have to go do X now." as long as "X" isn't "watch paint peel".

I wouldn't do 1) just based on what you're saying. Only downvote the question if the question itself is done wrong, not just because the asker can't use the answer. My answer above is basically a modified combination of 2), 3) and 4). But don't say, "with respect" because it always sounds like the opposite.

2
  • It's not pair programming, that's where the pair of you complete the task in half the time allotted to one developer. What it is, is shadowing or more correctly "Sitting by Nelly" Commented May 30, 2014 at 11:20
  • I'd say you're roughly correct, pair-programming seems meant to aid the task more than the people. I'm not a marketer, so I wouldn't call it pair-programming. It was a joke intended to point out that "hand-holding" makes it sound negative, whereas something similar, "pair-programming" makes it sound positive. In other words, I don't think that what is being called hand-holding is necessarily negative. If that's not apparent enough, maybe I should change the answer.
    – cesoid
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:42
3

He comes back with a comment saying "that didn't work" and a syntax error.

What I do is I provide an answer that clearly illustrates the issue. But more importantly I provide inline comments with the code so anyone can follow it line-by-line & more easily digest the concept. This works pretty well for me in answers like this as well as this one.

If I can’t do line-by-line comments, I break down the process like in this answer.

The goal is basically just from the act of following the steps, a newbie programmer will glean some knowledge into to the process of conceiving, coding & debugging.

1
  • Not sure this answer the question of basically what to do when the user doesn't get it. On an unrelated point I've used one of your linked answers as an example of editing style as it's a long-standing doubt of mine.
    – AD7six
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:03
3

It is true that sometimes other's level of experience and knowledge is under/over estimated; we do need help and direction to become better. I think that what you are doing is fine and if they are doing something that is frustrating to you, downvoting may not be the solution or beneficial for anyone. If anything, possibly more discouraging.

We are all told as programmers that the internet is our friend and to use it. That doesn't mean just Google. It means reaching out to the communities that are there for this reason. What works for me is to be able to understand the basics and then someone questioning and making me think about it and at least trying to get it.

Out of your choices for options on handling the situation, I would suggest #2 and offering a reference or tutorial. I know that if someone did that for me, I would learn something from it. After all, it's not only about getting it right, but learning about the 5 W's; who, what, when, where, why and how.

2
  • 1
    +1 for pointing out that StackOverflow is one of the Google results that pop up when we "Google it" and that this site exists for that very reason. The old "Google is your friend" response just doesn't cut it on a site that is supposed to provide answers.
    – Vincent
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 17:34
  • 3
    Right. It's unpleasant to google something, click the most likely looking link, and find it's a Stack Overflow answer that says "have you tried googling it". Commented May 26, 2014 at 2:14
2

If you feel like the questioner is a nut, just leave. For most questions you can determine that by just reading the OP. But be careful, I believe there are plenty of beginning programmers on SO who have good potential, some just don't know what they've started yet. I made some rediculous mistakes too because nobody in my direct environment had the ability to assist me when I learned to develop software. Also some programmers are good in practice, but they are a little disorganized and find it difficult to describe their problem, but deep inside they have a clue what they are doing.

When I help beginners I never concentrate on implementation details unless the question explicitly demands it. I believe giving advice, tips and examples of good practices (even if its a matter of code convention) is the best thing to do, afterwards the questioner has to do the real work and that will prove if hes qualified.

1

There is a reason why introductory textbooks use pseudo-code, okay many, but one reason relevant here is that it strives to minimize the copy-paste approach to programming. At the most basic level, the programmer / student (aren't we all) has to at least read the pseudo-code close enough to translate the principles of the example to the syntax and semantics of their target programming language.

A slightly evil (in the nicest possible fashion) variant is to give code examples in older or uncommon languages where the example language syntax doesn't obscure the meaning. Languages such as Pascal, Modula-2, Simula, ALGOL, Smalltalk, Ada, or modern Fortran are the sort I have in mind.

The other approach I try or attempt to use, is to actively not answer the OP's question, but focus on laying out an approach of how they can solve their own problem, or find the answer themselves.

For novice programmers this may be as simple as explaining what a compiler warning actually means, or at least explaining what is wrong in their situation.

In another case perhaps pointing them to a readable and correct explanation of the keyword or feature they are using incorrectly.

While answers to syntax and algorithmic nature can utilize example code effectively, unless that is the actual problem, including code can be more distracting from the communication and thus learning process.

Those questioners who persist in expecting a homework answering machine can be safely ignored, but actual learners may stumble particularly if there is a language barrier, they will most likely show some signs of wanting to understand.

-2

Well, I'm an uberNoob.
AS an ubernoob, one problem that I face from really nice answerers is that... their answer is most probably right. That is probably the correct way to do it in the real, professional world. But I'm just an ubernoob. It's kind of like... I asked a question about a^2 + b^2 = c^2 and the answerer is answering the question CORRECTLY... but it's not on my level, say like explaining complicating calculus stuff about the complicating behind story of that formula... when I only needed an answer like oh you forgot that negatives squared is a positive. I know that this math seems really easy but that's exactly where I'm at in programming. I can't express enough how thankful I am to the answerers for caring enough to try and solve my problem but... it wasn't much help for me, honestly.

-7

I am a semi new person when it comes to certain programming languages. I appreciate the help that others can give me with the questions I ask. I feel that people who make questions unuseful and throwing out bad reputation for simple questions is dumb. If you don't think the question is good/answer is good, you don't need to down rate it. However if the user didn't do a good job at researching and such and delivered a poorly formatted question/answer, Downvote it.

1
  • 6
    Yes, actually you do. The whole idea of voting is that you vote down bad questions. It's what makes the system work. The system doesn't work when people don't downvote the bad questions.
    – Servy
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 13:50
-13

One simple solution to the whole problem is:

give VERY SHORT "pointer" answers, sign off with a socially-acceptbale platitude, and leave it at that. Examples:

- Good one buddy, check out UITableView

- Hey nice start. Check out NSLog.

- Get in to NSUserDefaults for that, see you next time!

- You're looking for UILabel, cheers

- You're after NSLog there, good luck

Note that

There's no point adding language about "...you can find that in the documentation" or "...you can search for that on..." Save the words.

THere's no point using words on SO policy, new questions, expected norms, or anything else.

Anything additional you say, just gives them an opening. :) Be firm but kind.

Make it a contest with yourself to make the curtest possible "pointer answer" - and then, add a formulaic socially polite signoff. And that's it.

If everyone would do this, it's like "not giving money to beggars in NY" .. eventually they go away from the block you know? (Sort of a harsh analogy!)

I really think this is "the" solution to the whole problem.

18
  • 8
    Is that supposed to help… at all? That isn't even enough characters to post as an answer.
    – bjb568
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 1:40
  • 1
    this answer hardly deserves a -6. I'm curious why it seems to have touched such a nerve
    – tjb1982
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 2:15
  • Indeed, @tjb1982 - bizarre eh! I believe I know the reason; the SO culture (if you will) really believes in technological fixes to problems. Solutions that involve the points system, and mechanisms on the site, are wanted. Social solutions are seen as -- socially inappropriate. Note that many (actually, all?! every one?) of the answers above are literally not answers - bizarre!
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 5:47
  • 3
    That's true. It's funny to me also how peer pressure can work in subconscious ways--like for instance, the total vote is now at -11. It is impossible for me to believe that more than 11 people really read what you wrote with a thoughtful, open mind after the first down-vote, and made the independent decision to down-vote. I don't believe it any more than I believe that so many things that someone with 100k+ reputation says are that much more compelling than others. My hypothesis would be that this site has problems with feedback loops. And it wouldn't matter except that employers do care:
    – tjb1982
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:02
  • programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/4180/…
    – tjb1982
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:02
  • If the comment links to something that is a reference, I find this style to be constructive and work. If it's just the name of a class to google though, it's probably read as the disguised "Go away" that it is meant to be.
    – AD7six
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:07
  • Hey AD7 ... hmm, if you mean literally a link (like a hyperlink .. remember those? heh!) I'm not sure if I agree with you there. Reason, for 15? yrs everyone can search on everything instantly. For example, I know nothing about Android and I asked a very arcane question, and someone kindly told me "CronoSuperMavenLib" was the thing in question. Now, it makes utterly no difference if the thing in question is a hyperlink, or just that word. If you tell me to learn everything about James van Allen, CronoSuperMavenLib, or '70s Acid Jazz, I don't need "a link", nor does anyone. I can ..........
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:52
  • ..... I can instantly access all information on that, like anyone can. About anything. (In general these days it's totally absurd to say, at any time, in an context - at all - "you can google that!" or "you can search for the phone number online!" or "just google the address!" etc.) Now, the fact that the person told me CronoSuperMavenLib was what I was after -- was incredible. I wanted to send even more advertising eyeball time to the SO owners, it was literally priceless to me. Adding a hyperlink would be irrelevant. Now IN CONTRAST, once you get in to the DETAILS of CronoSuperMavenLib..
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:54
  • ...sure, we could trade detailed references (hyperlinks or otherwise) on that. (Note there too that you don't literally need hyperlinks. All you say is "check the Wenderlich article on CronosTwo lib for that aspect of prime number degeneration..." blah blah.) So I'm not really with you on adding a hyperlink specifically; it's too detailed. My example of the CronoSuperMavenLib (or whatever the hell it was) is the perfect example. the expert in question didn't need to waste another second on that. Better get back to the guys CronoSuperMavenLib programming...
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:56
  • 1
    @tjb -- an absolutely good point on the feedback, I'll think about that.
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 11:57
  • @tjb regarding hiring people. I dunno. I've not known anyone who would. But, admittedly, many people seem to mention that it can be a factor these days. (I've only ever hired anyone on the basis of whether they can keep up with me drinking, so not a useful point of reference probably :) ) I've found there's certain social-contacts value: i.e. the "me and the other top ten specialists in the world in a certain field, all got to know each other coz we're the top ten mods on XYZ specialist board." You know what I mean? So it's a tricky one.
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 12:00
  • 1
    @tjb1982 "it is impossible for me to believe ..." that doesn't mean it's impossible. I for one disagree with this answer entirely, not because I'd be against giving people a small pointer and thus politely telling them to invest more effort into (re)searching the topic on their own, but because it is utterly doomed to fail. You simply can't convince the huge amount of repwhores who answer anything with "try this: [code dump]" to comment "lookup the docs for [x]" instead. And as long as people still answer these kinds of questions, this "solution" is just completely useless.
    – l4mpi
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 12:08
  • 1
    but because it is utterly doomed to fail... YES, I absolutely agree with you. SOCIAL SOLUTIONS FAIL -- nobody adopts them. (I've said this in 12s of posts.) I think here the person was asking "what should I (personally) do, how to handle this nuisance socially." So, what i describe is exactly what i do with "limpets", "endless-follow-uppers", it works for me. I 100% agree with you. You can see many rants by me about this. Social solutions fail; nobody adopts them. "Mods, get tough!" doesn't work for precisely the reasons you colourfully outline. Good one
    – Fattie
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 12:22
  • 1
    not sure why this is heavily downvoted. I partially agree with the author. This is a site for not-lazy people. sometimes all you need is a point in the right direction and not have a full chapter'ish solution lied out in front of you. If you suspect the OP is lazy dont answer at all and move on and if you see someone just needs a tip in the right direction this is the way to answer. If someones question is constructive and you see research done but there is an explicit description or suggestion needed - make it. Otherwise, just stay simple and polite.
    – user2140173
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 8:36
  • 1
    @JoeBlow was is last Friday that SO was in read-mode all day? I'd love to see a comparison of google programmatic related searches and hits on that day vs. a normal working day on SO. It was a beautiful day - SO should go on a read-only mode mon-fri and allow questions only on sat and sun heheh
    – user2140173
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 8:45

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