221

The feedback on my questions has generally not been that negative or harsh, but what I'm seeing all around me has made me afraid to ask anything. It's dangerous. Be a little unclear - lambasted. A little broad - lambasted. On the other hand, if it's too localized - lambasted. You're the OP - lambasted. Ok that one isn't true, but that's how it feels.

I get it, you guys prefer high quality questions. So do I. In fact, I blame a lack of high quality questions for my decreased activity (but of course I'm not the most objective judge of that).

But it actually seems dangerous to ask a question. I'm not good at formulating questions, especially not titles, and badly formulated questions are in the high risk group. So what has happened is that I've mostly given up on asking anything - better to spend a week figuring something out myself than spending an hour and several nights' sleep trying to ask a question and defending it from trigger-happy question-closers.

I know the canonical answer is "grow a thicker skin", but have we gone too far? Should we be afraid to ask questions?

1
  • 36
    The risk of getting closed is not so high. In 2012 1% of the questions where closed, now it is between 1 and 2%. If there was no fear in 2012, there should not be much fear now. And if a question gets closed that is not a disgrace. Just fix it and reopen or repost it (if it can be fixed). But don't spend a week on figuring out what others here might think about your question. This is overvalued. Anyway you are an experienced user with >10k rep. If such a guy cannot bring a question through, who can? Commented May 20, 2014 at 11:45

18 Answers 18

144

As kind of a new user, I indeed feel a bit afraid to ask questions. While writing them, I'm wondering : "how will some pedant 10k rep geek blame me for this question ?"

However, that anxiety has made me find good ideas to solve my problem several times. The result of that is that I found answers to several questions I was about to post before doing so. Even if I already searched by myself, it was obviously not as much as I could have done.

As for me, a little anxiety about asking questions is positive, as it incites you to enhance your question. Moreover, most 10k rep geeks I saw here are quite sympathetic, helpful and accurate. I regularly recommend SO to fellow students using that argument.

Some experienced users are very concerned about this site not becoming full of garbage questions and are sometimes harsh to new users who didn't pay as much attention as they could have to SO standards. They are sometimes stricter than they probably needed to be. However, the flaws they point are usually accurate.

I guess that balance between quality-concerned and welcome-concerned users is why I immediately liked SO when I discovered it, and still does.

21
  • 80
    +1 Posting a question really should be your absolute last resort after you have really really thought about the problem. Most people do not (seem to) go through this inner turmoil before posting at all. After all, thinking really hard about problems is what programming is (supposed to be) all about. I commend you on your hesitation.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:29
  • 25
    how will some pedant 10k rep geek blame me for this question ?. Uh. Interesting mindset.
    – user703016
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 14:06
  • 4
    @WilliamAndrewMontgomery : I obviously meant it as a taunt and I clarify my mind in the following of my post. However it actually is how new users often see things (and sometimes it's true). That's why I deeply commend on experienced users who are being nice and indulgent to the newbies. They are why I felt like hanging here and participating instead of just paying special attention to SO results when I google something.
    – Vincent
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 14:21
  • 7
    I don't feel SO should be anxiety driven, even not if it is only in small amounts. Rather it should be a climate where you can ask everything you feel like asking, and even if you didn't hit the right form everytime - it doesn't matter because we all learn and we all make mistakes. Just correct the error and continue. Life is too short for bickering about everything. Don't be afraid and don't try to be perfect but try your best, whatever it is. Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:59
  • 6
    Awesome, +1. If geek pedantry, or even just the fear thereof, can prevent questions in favour of people finding their own solutions, then it's doing The Right Thing.
    – Kerrek SB
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 22:05
  • 7
    @Trilarion Yes and no. While the spirit of that thinking is certainly correct, you should have enough anxiety to be absolutely sure you have covered all your bases before you step in front of an auditorium of experts (if you want to imagine SO that way) to ask your question. Are you really sure you have checked your syntax? Are you really sure you have RTFM? Are you really sure you have tried following your own logic to see if it makes sense? IMO a large number of questions would not need to be asked if the OP actually took the time to think it through.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 7:39
  • 1
    @deceze Still you can do that also in a non-anxious climate. What you require is basically only to put some decent effort into the question. The rest comes automatically. And mistakes are human. Even 100k users should get a question closed from time to time. I would replace anxiety with effort and time, but maybe for some people anxiety leads to increased effort and then it comes out the same. Not for me. I don't want (nor will) fear the closers. Yes, many questions would not need to be asked, but some questions needed to be asked might not get asked. We need a balance. Commented May 21, 2014 at 8:01
  • 3
    @Tri Sure, effort is what it comes down to. Some people may be motivated to put in more effort by close-anxiety. If so, I don't have a problem with it. If you're already putting in great effort, more power to you. The only thing I really have a problem with are the countless users who show no effort, aren't the least bit anxious about it and reflexively complain about down- and closevotes.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 8:06
  • 2
    Being lazy and not searching as much as if one hadn't know that s1 on SO would tell the answer is highly natural, and anxiety prevent that. Nice users making new ones comfortable are why SO immediately feel better than other sites; strict users generating a little anxiety (and improving global quality) are why we stay on it. I do think most people (including myself) can't give their best without any pressure. However, that pressure should remain very low, otherwise you just stop asking questions. I regularly see reactions I feel abusive (hence the "pedant geek" thing), but truly not so much.
    – Vincent
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 8:18
  • 2
    @Tri Well, the anxiety is a result of those tools that you mention, which are there by design, which means a certain anxiety is part of the design. I think that's the only way to scale, too. We can't technically block people from asking bad questions, the only thing that can do that is the people themselves. If anxiety is the tool to do that, I'm all for it. People will get less anxious as they get to know the system and understand more intuitively how to ask decent questions. Sounds like the system accomplishes its goal. :)
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 8:40
  • 1
    @Tri Not sure how that really scales. You still have the same total number of people asking and the same total number of people answering/downvoting/closing. Also, how do you distinguish between someone browsing to answer questions and someone browsing to find answers? You propose to not show everything to the first group but of course you do want to show everything to the latter. Yet there's no clean distinction between these two activities on SO.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:09
  • 2
    @deceze The starting point for me was that these simple questions that actually not even should be here get 5 identical answers in the first minute. This is inefficient. To stop it from happening I wanted to show a new question only to a fraction of the SO users and gradually to a higher and higher fraction and after some time to all. Actually it might not be the full solution to scaling but an important part of it mitigating the scaling problem. Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:30
  • 1
    @Tri IMO that would just make another problem worse though: duplication. Not duplication of efforts, but duplication of content. We do not need or want the same question answered in a hundred different ways on dozens of nearly identical pages. That's why we close-as-duplicate. If you fragment the user base, closure is less likely to happen, or two different user bases will be answering the same question at the same time, or it will take longer before the question has "bubbled up" to somebody who recognises it as a close-question and will have gathered answers in the meantime.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:36
  • 2
    @Vincent the turmoil you go through before asking is part of a process called Rubber Duck Problem Solving. Jeff Atwood has written about it. Google for it; it is very rewarding to make this into one of your programming practices.
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 21:05
  • 4
    Speaking as a 98K geek pedant: Excellent post by virtue of the fact you do search first. That's all I ask.
    – IRTFM
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 11:46
63

Your question is unlikely to be closed or downvoted if:

  • It has not been asked before
  • It's clearly explained
  • It's on-topic
  • It's obvious that you already made an effort to solve the problem yourself.

IMHO, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/how-to-ask still is a good guide for posting relevant questions that don't get downvoted.

Basically it all comes down to these points for other users:

  • It must be understandable so it can be answered
  • It must be relevant so others benefit from the knowledge as well

Please note however, that you can never be 100% sure in those matters. There are always reasons why a few separate users see the need to downvote or close a question, but I still feel my points offer the best way of keeping the number low.

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  • 38
    If only that were the case. Most questions are voted to close in a matter of minutes if even a few words resemble another question - even if they ask completely different things. I agree with Harold, here. Most times I see people coming in to questions, offer no comments, no answers, nothing - except a vote to close or flagging it as a duplicate despite being a valid question. Unfortunately he's right and there are far too many trigger-happy question closers.
    – Mkalafut
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:14
  • 2
    Well, my points were rather meant as a recommendation of how to have the least probability of having your question downvoted. You can never be 100% sure of course. I'll try to get that into my answer.
    – FD_
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:18
  • I understand. I was just making an observation is all :)
    – Mkalafut
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:22
  • 5
    @FD_ I'm sorry, but I can' agree with the "No-one will close or downvote a question if" part. One of my questions got downvoted just because I commented on one answer that "its not what I'm looking for". And I asked only two questions on this site - thus - in my case - this post is 50% wrong. Which is kinda sad, cause it should be 100% right. Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:41
  • 2
    Your three points don't cover everything: "off topic" but otherwise high-quality questions. People will close those.
    – Veedrac
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:49
  • @Veedrac you're right, added.
    – FD_
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:51
  • The last paragraph is devoted to you doubters ;)
    – FD_
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:52
  • I'd add these two: - It's relevant to future visitors. - It's not one of the very first things any applicable course or book would be expected to teach you. Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:10
  • While I agree with the answer, not all people feel the same. I was downvoted here stackoverflow.com/questions/23717151/…, by at least one guy with high reputation, because I didn't know at that time that I had to benchmark my code in the release mode, instead of the debug mode. Hope this post improves things, while not letting "bad" users get away.
    – gsamaras
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:12
  • 2
    Possibly rewording it to something like "You're very unlikely to recieve close votes or downvotes on a question if:" because let's face it.. some people just want to watch the world burn Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:13
  • 5
    "No-one will close or downvote a question if" you're speaking in terms of absolutes, assuming everyone has perfect reading comprehension. There are no absolutes. Unfortunately a large number of people have average-to-poor reading comprehension, or are outright arrogant. When encountering something they do not understand, will vote to close rather than realize it is outside their realm of expertise.
    – AaronLS
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:18
  • @Dukeling: 1) See my last two points saying what it comes down to, 2) Point 4 was intended to cover that
    – FD_
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:20
  • @Carrie Kendall: like that wording, adjusted my answer.
    – FD_
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 18:22
  • That is probably true most of the time. Unfortunately, some folks don't really understand the question and make assumptions because their understanding of an underlying technology is less than they believe it to be. I realize this is a very old thread, but 9 years later this has not changed...
    – mewa6
    Commented Jul 1, 2023 at 16:24
43

This is true, but not all questions get closed though. I've only asked a few questions myself. Even at 34K reputation, I'm reluctant to ask a new question. Every time I want to ask a question, I just go and read this answer.

Quoting the relevant parts:

How much research effort is expected of Stack Overflow users?

A lot. An absurd amount. More than you think you are capable of. In fact, asking a question on Stack Overflow is the absolute last thing you ever want to do. You want to avoid it at all costs. You want to think of it as a horrible shame that will forever haunt you and pass down from you to your descendants. You want very much to find your answer some other way.

[...]

After you have reached the end of your rope and the pain of not having the answer exceeds the vast amount of shame received by posting your question, that's when you can go ahead and ask. Because at that point, you will have done whatever research necessary to make it a good question worth asking. Because so help me, if your question gets an answer within 30 seconds that has 10 upvotes within 3 minutes, you did not do enough research.

It inspires me to go back and search. There are times when I've spent many weeks trying to solve a single problem. This is not to say you shouldn't ask a question. If you've got a valid, on-topic, not too localized, not too broad question that would be useful to others, by all means ask it. That's exactly what Stack Overflow is here for!

The site was originally created with the intention of being a repository of high-quality questions and answers. At the time of writing, there are over 7,319,003 questions questions (and counting!) asked on Stack Overflow alone. So when a user asks a new question, it is highly probable that the question they're about to ask has already been answered on the site.

The problem is that most users just sign up on the site, type whatever comes into their mind into the question form and post it. This is not what Stack Overflow expects from its users. The How to Ask page actually puts this perfectly well:

Search and Research

Have you thoroughly searched for an answer before asking your question? Sharing your research helps everyone. Tell us what you found (on this site or elsewhere) and why it didn’t meet your needs. This demonstrates that you’ve taken the time to try to help yourself, it saves us from reiterating obvious answers, and above all, it helps you get a more specific and relevant answer!

There's no need to worry about anything else if you're sure you've followed all the guidelines listed in the How to Ask page page. The problem, however, is that people never read anything.

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  • 1
    So basically what you're saying is, I'm not even afraid enough. All of my questions could easily have been avoided by spending more time researching - and really, for what question is that not true?
    – user555045
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:41
  • 4
    @harold not so, I have hours logged and pain suffered for stuff I couldn't find anywhere (at least with this brain). The shame/pain tradeoff is valid ;) Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:45
  • 7
    @harold: No, that's not what I mean. I just added the quote just to assert that everyone needs to do their part before asking a question. If the question has already been asked and answered on Stack Overflow, it wouldn't make sense to repeat it again. What I'm saying is, if you do the homework before asking a question and make sure your question is on-topic, then it wouldn't get closed. (I'm talking about the entire Stack Overflow population; not just you.) Commented May 20, 2014 at 13:46
  • 1
    If this would be true, >80% of questions should be closed immediately because they clearly aren't the last ressort. Commented May 20, 2014 at 19:52
  • 1
    @Trilarion: No. We close questions because they're unclear, too broad, off-topic etc., not because it lacks research efforts. If everyone followed this (we know everyone isn't), the question quality would be so high that we wouldn't have to close questions at all. Commented May 21, 2014 at 2:30
  • 1
    @AmalMurali Then this answer is just way too exaggerated or nonsense. Obviously you do not have to put an insane amount of research into your question to get it through on SO. Commented May 21, 2014 at 7:24
  • 1
    "There's no need to worry about anything else if you're sure you've followed all the guidelines listed in the How to Ask page. " That statement is categorically untrue. All the time, users close or downvote questions simply because they have some "smell" that the closerati don't like. My favorite was one time a question got closed, I defended it on the grounds that it didn't violate the Close criterion chosen by the 5 closers, a moderator came in and offered some hand-waving argument, and then when I pointed out that the How To Ask page didn't say that, he went and changed the page.
    – Nate
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:31
  • 1
    @Nate So what is the problem? If you see questions that you think should not have been closed, simply vote to reopen and/or comment. As a last resort, bring it to meta. The community will decide.
    – kapa
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:35
  • The quoted answer has since been sanitized to be more user-friendly and less critical: meta.stackoverflow.com/revisions/261593/2 (interestingly, since 28 June, 2019, it has been edited another 28 times)
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Aug 16, 2019 at 14:51
  • Final and agreed upon version (No.3) here: meta.stackoverflow.com/revisions/261593/3
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Aug 16, 2019 at 15:00
21

You should absolutely be afraid to ask a question. Asking a new question should be the last resort.

You should have scoured Google and Stack Overflow exhaustively for your answers. You should have perused practically every question relating to your problem and found the answers lacking. You should have looked in multiple online manuals for your answers. You should have done everything short of taking a pilgrimage to the highest mountain to consult the Neck-beard that resides there (and maybe even that).

If you are afraid to ask a question, you will make absolutely sure that it is clear and well written. Otherwise you will be lambasted. This isn't a bad thing. Provided it isn't anything personally insulting.

You shouldn't be afraid that people are going to call you names because of your question, but you should be afraid that you are wasting their time.

You should be afraid that your question is going to be closed as a duplicate, or downvoted to oblivion with links to the manual or a Google search with three pages of results that show how to solve your problem.

You shouldn't grow a thicker skin for asking a question. You should always be nervous about hitting that "Ask Question" button. You should be absolutely sure that your question is one that is clear, useful and above all not trivial.

If more people were afraid of asking a question, there might be less complaining about the quality of questions on Stack Overflow. I personally am amazed at the bravery of some of the people that ask some questions on the site.

Being afraid to ask a question means that you will have done your due diligence before asking. And that is a Good Thing.

EDIT

The answer should be so important to you that you have not found the answer despite all of your best efforts and that any lambasting you may receive will not matter. If someone provides you with a comment to a link providing your answer, you should feel relieved and a little dumb for having not found it yourself. Your fear should be the price that you pay for asking a question. Your inability to not find the answer should make you not worry about any lambasting that you may receive.

11
  • A last resort? In other words, just stop asking questions? There's always an alternative.
    – user555045
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 20:26
  • 1
    What do you mean "there's always an alternative"?
    – Schleis
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 20:35
  • Just keep looking for the answer yourself. Or ask somewhere else (the possibilities for that are nearly endless). Or someone else, even. Or just give up. You're never forced to resort to asking on SO, so you never reach that last resort.
    – user555045
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 20:37
  • 3
    Yes, no one has forced you to ask a question. But if knowing the answer is not important enough for you to search yourself, consult with every resource at your disposal and still not find it; why is it important enough to post on SO and make others do that work?
    – Schleis
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 20:52
  • Ok, but then you're literally arguing against ever asking a question, right? It's either important enough to look for the answer (and so you don't have to ask), or it's not important enough to ask, either way no question gets asked. Btw, the answers usually (not always) don't do that work - they already know the answer, that's why they're answering in the first place. Usually.
    – user555045
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 20:55
  • 3
    No. SO is the resource you go to when you don't know how to tweak your google searches to find results other than those that you have rejected (you might even have gone to page 3 to look) and your coworkers / friends don't know either (they even did their own googling). Then you ask a question. If you haven't put in some sort of effort into finding the answer yourself, why should they?
    – Schleis
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 21:08
  • So you only need to do some effort then, that's hardly a last resort.
    – user555045
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 21:11
  • 6
    Only some of the water in the universe is on this planet....
    – Schleis
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 21:19
  • I largely agree with this. I'm not afraid to ask a question because of losing some meaningless reputation points, but I don't want to be embarrassed in front of my peers and betters because I didn't do proper research.
    – Roland
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 11:42
  • @Roland - "I checked this $Manual and these {$list} 3 SO questions". BAM. No sane individual will even REMOTELY think you didn't do proper research. The ones that will think so aren't "sane" by my definition and shouldn't be cared about as far as their opinion.
    – DVK
    Commented May 22, 2014 at 12:05
  • 3
    @harold Think of "last resort" as the final avenue that you choose to pursue. Not the last thing you could ever possibly in the universe do.
    – Air
    Commented May 23, 2014 at 15:44
13

You are visiting a site that offers assistance for free. On the internet. An institution famously inhabited by a wide range of personalities. Heck, species.

No one forced you to come here. If you want polite and obsequious, hire someone. If you want free, go borrow a thicker skin from a friendly rhino.

If you really get 'lambasted', flag it. Mods delete unnecessary roughness. But closing isn't lambasting, and simple statements of fact aren't either. You offer no links to your complaints: not to undeserved closes nor to unkind commentary, so we are free to guess what you are talking about.

Most of the questions that arrive at the front door deserve downvotes or close votes, as has been documented here at great length. If you are sure that you are asking good questions and getting poor treatment, post some links so the community has something concrete to think about.

12
  • 5
    So you mean, since it's free, we should be afraid to ask questions?
    – user555045
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:32
  • 7
    He means that because it's free, people should be more considerate.
    – dandan78
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:33
  • 10
    I run a hardware forum elsewhere and we've stopped helping with tech support questions because of exactly this. Far too many people treat it like a customer service point. You're getting free help from people that get paid good money to solve their own problems and nothing to help you out. The least you can do is be mindful of this and only bother them if you've exhausted your other avenues. Not doing so is disrespectful. I marvel at how many people are surprised that disrespect is what they get back.
    – Markus
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:45
  • 4
    The question closers should also be more considerate of the people who enjoy answering questions - you know, the people who actually provide that free assistance. I've often seen questions which are subtly different from existing questions - and thus not duplicates - get closed within seconds when they actually bring up an interesting and unusual point that is worth exploring.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:49
  • 2
    @WarrenDew Sometimes it happens, because we are humans. In most cases, closes I see are absolutely justified. If they are not, comment, flag, vote to reopen, whatever you can do.
    – kapa
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:17
  • 1
    Because it's free, you should be willing to shrug your shoulders at the fact that the vast variety of humanity here may not always be as nice to you as you might like.
    – bmargulies
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:22
  • 2
    Ideally people asking questions shouldn't have think skin, because we want low quality posters to be affected by the comments and votes in order to change their behaviour or have them go away. Most of the time when a misguided soul downvotes or posts a negative comment on a high-quality question, there are more than enough users who upvote and/or lambaste the lambaster. Commented May 20, 2014 at 17:05
  • @Dukeling a paradox, no?
    – bmargulies
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 17:14
  • 4
    @WarrenDew: "The question closers should also be more considerate of the people who enjoy answering questions" — Why should a question not be closed if it's been asked before? "Some people like answering them" is not a valid argument. Someone will always answer duplicate questions. That doesn't mean the questions shouldn't be closed. Commented May 21, 2014 at 2:33
  • @AmalMurali The problem is not questions that have been asked before, but questions that haven't been asked before, if you read them carefully. Too many people don't bother to read them carefully, and thus fail to notice the differences.
    – Warren Dew
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 2:47
  • 3
    @WarrenDew: If only we could force people to read them before posting! Commented May 21, 2014 at 2:49
  • @WarrenDew: Duplicate-finding should not be a game of "spot the difference". If the existing Q&A didn't solve your problem, then tell us clearly how your new question is different. Don't expect a dozen experts to redundantly perform that work. If we see something that looks close, then either (a) it really is a duplicate, or (b) you're disrespectfully trying to save the time of one person, you, at the expense of hundreds who come read your question. In both cases (a) and (b) the closure is legitimate, in case (b) it can be undone after the OP states the differences as an edit or comment.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jul 13, 2014 at 19:17
8

Usually a very bad question indicates the OP does not really know how SO works (you can find a lot of homework exercises every day, for example), so people downvote and forget.

But in a question which shows some effort but it's not clear enough downvotes are often explained, so they give you the chance to improve the question, respond to comments... so downvoters are reminded to check it again and change their vote.

I've just done a few questions, but I have never felt any pressure about how to write them.

8

I'd like to submit that I continue seeing fine questions again and again, both from new users and from established users. Maybe there aren't large amounts of those, but they exist, and good questions aren't so easy to come up with. So I believe that Stack Overflow is actually getting a steady, though not huge, influx of good questions, and it's quite possible to write a question that doesn't get any of the negative responses that the OP fears. And new users seem to be perfectly capable of composing such questions.

Sure, we also get a heap of terrible questions, and they tend to create a vocal response (which is good), and so you may, in absolute figures, see a lot of negativity, but that should not at all be taken as a sign that it's "dangerous to ask questions". Just do your homework, proofread, and get a sense of the place before you start, and you have nothing to worry about.

I look forward to your questions.

1
  • 9
    +1 There's plenty of us who are dying to see a good question. Give us a good question and we'll give you an upvote and an answer as well.
    – Mysticial
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 22:22
8

The feedback on my questions has generally not been that negative or harsh

THAT. You just answered your own question.

There's a reason your questions feedback has not been that negative. The reason is that you clearly care enough to try and post quality questions.

You should NOT start worrying over "well I see a lot of noise about crappy questions being 'lambasted', so MY questions will be 'lambasted'". That is a logical fallacy. Those questions are being treated harshly NOT because they are asked, but because they are crap.

Since you take care NOT to post crap (at least based on your own claim - I honestly didn't check your SO profile to verify it), your questions won't be treated as poorly as the crap ones are.

If you worry about your question being clear because you're not a great writer, ask a co-worker or a friend to read it over and tell you if it's clear to them what you're asking. I suffer from the same exact problem (and being ESL to boot) and somehow manage to have most of my questions be upvoted and not closed, because I try hard; and spend time writing and rewriting them; and edit them if someone requests clarification.

5

I downvote or vote to close a lot of questions here. Sometimes my comments may be a little harsh. I do so because Stack Overflow has been an invaluable resource to me, but the dross that is regularly posted here would quickly wash the site out if it isn't controlled.

On a number of occasions I have been tempted to ask a question myself. Mindful of the standards I would like to see others adopt I diligently start reducing my problem to an example that reproduces it and document it as thoroughly as I can before posting. This might require an hour of my time, so I make sure that I really need to ask before I do it.

Of the couple of dozen or so times over the last year I've reached this point the work involved in producing a good question has led me to the answer and no question was asked. I've learned something along the way.

I make no apologies for attempting to separate the wheat from the chaff. If more effort was applied by some of the question askers they'd be better at their jobs and Stack Overflow could well be a happier place.

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    Exactly. Harsh comments on Stack Overflow actually helped me to learn this problem solving method and attitude. I will always be grateful. Without this I would be a hopeless and useless programmer just wasting other people's time.
    – kapa
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 9:28
3

I don't see what you have to be "afraid" of. It's not like commenters on SO have a gun to your head.

Chill out.

5
  • No, but if you care about the site, and want to be part of the site, it can be intimidating. No one wants to get banned for asking bad questions, or get the letter from the admin. Getting banned from the biggest and best information exchange on the Internet is not a good thing.
    – johnny
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:53
  • "Afraid" is probably the wrong word. But if you get yelled at for asking a question, you're probably not inclined to do it again. The same applies for the inevitable close votes or downvotes. Even if it's not making you "afraid", it gets the message across that "you and your questiosn are not wanted here". Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:13
  • 2
    It's easy not to get banned. Read the help pages. Read high-voted questions. Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:23
  • 1
    @jalf: Good! Because those questions are not wanted here. :) This isn't a garden party where everyone needs fake smiles. We're very clear about what is and isn't welcome and there's no reason to shy away from that when it's violated. Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:23
  • 5
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit actually, regarding reading "high-voted questions", not all high-voted questions are good, a lot of times they're actually merely popular. Popularity and quality don't always correlate.
    – user456814
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:50
3

Sure. If you look over the activity on Meta, at least 90% of it is about how harmful it is when people ask questions, how it can be discouraged, and what to delete, what to close, and what to downvote.

And it seems like a significant proportion of the activity on SO comes in the form of angry comments, close- and downvotes.

So yeah, in general, don't do it. It's not worth it.

You're not the first to come to this realization, and you won't be the last.

And I find it ironic that the responses you're getting here, on Meta of all places, are seemingly in denial about the simple fact that they've managed to turn SO into exactly what they tried to turn it into: a place where questions are discouraged.

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    We only aim to discourage low quality questions - if a few high-quality posters get discouraged along the way, so be it (IMO at least). I'd happily lose a few high-quality questions if it means getting low-quality under control. The problem is that we're somewhere in the middle right about now - there aren't enough down-/close-voters so low-quality posters are still running rampant, but there are enough down-/close-voters to discourage some high-quality posters. Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:40
  • 4
    questions are not discouraged, low quality questions that don't benefit anyone but the poster, and even then that is debatable, are discouraged is what is being complained about
    – user177800
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 17:02
  • 1
    @Gracchus The root of your confusion might be that the war between "highreps" and "askers" (if I get it right) is only happening in your mind :).
    – kapa
    Commented May 21, 2014 at 10:31
  • Interesting in conjunction with the issue what SO is for. If (as significantly many but not all feel), SO is for compiling an archive of quality questions and answers then closing it to new questions for a period would not necessarily be a ridiculous thing to do, and discouraging new questions doesn't harm its mission for quite a long time. That's not to say I advocate doing so, just that if that's what harshing (in effect) does then many people's view of what the site is for means they won't immediately be concerned by it. So why shouldn't they be "seemingly in denial"? :-) Commented May 23, 2014 at 15:49
  • Of course Stack Overflow as a private organization is free to aspire to whatever goals it wishes, but not all goals are attainable. To have a body of definite answers would seem to be difficult, in technology, answers change. Many answers recommend libraries, and libraries change, many answers refer to features of languages, and languages change. Comparatively few refer to algorithms that are timeless. Does it really help to close a question as a duplicate, when the duplicate refers to libraries that are 10 years old? Is the idea of purity in Q and A inherently quixotic?
    – Daniel
    Commented Aug 15, 2019 at 23:09
2

Here is an example of why all this 'fear' is misplaced. The OP asked a beginner C++ question. The OP's grip on English grammar was not quite complete. Nonetheless, she or he went to the trouble to include relevant, cleanly-formatted code, and frame a coherent question. An answer was forthcoming. In my experience, this is typical.

2

The answer in my opinion is a resounding no, one should never be afraid to ask questions, no matter how seemingly naive.

I guess it's because I am a team player and have always preferred being around team players in open collaborative environments.

That's not to say it's OK to wheedle others over every little thing, but I'm sure others will empathize when I say I have never found it fun working with lone wolf types - intellectuals that don't like talking to anyone.

The problem I often think is not so much the 'badness' of the question, but really knowing how to express oneself clearly, and ask the right kind of questions. More difficult if English is not your native language.

I recently upvoted and updated a question that in my opinion was perfectly valid but unfortunately was not very well explained, contained a link to another site that had since changed, and the said site contained some incorrect information that was not the fault of the original OP. It was basically how do you set up TinyXml in Visual Studio.

tinyxml library include in Visual studio

It's all too easy to dismiss and downvote a perfectly valid question for reasons like these.

0

I think that we shouldn't be afraid of asking questions. If it's a well founded question I don't see any problem. (But use the search bar first. Just inIt is there for some reason case.)

What's the worst thing that can happen? No one will beat me to death.

Also (although I'm new here), sometimes I found myself in the situation where, while trying to write a well explained question, the answer just hits me out of nowhere. Trying to describe your problem in a way that is easy for other people to understand can lead to an epiphany.

And yes, I write large amounts of bad english because that's not my first language (But hey! My english is better than my chinese!).

0

The worst part is that:

A) Write a question that might be "too simple to answer" and explain it improperly because lack of understanding about topic terms. End result - downvotes.

B) Write a question that is "too hard to answer" and it never gets a decent answer. And sometimes downvotes.

It feels like there are too many people out there who are having a bad day and the only thing that might them feel a bit better about themselves is if they downvoted someone, so they visit SO and carry on their good deeds.

I do agree that if people who downvote would be exposed there would be a lot less downvotes. At least we'd get to see who is having a bad day...

-9

I once asked a C++ question on Stack Overflow. It was about the rules for alignment with placement new, I needed a compact representation of a data structure, and posted some code that I thought conformed to alignment rules, but wasn't sure, and asked if anyone could confirm or propose a correction. The question was immediately down voted, someone commented that they weren't sure what I was asking about, and someone else asked, somewhat incoherently, why I just didn't use an array of char in the first place. I subsequently reposted it on the C++ usenet group, and got an authoritative answer in quick fashion. In the meantime, some bot removed my Stack Overflow question and the down vote out of sympathy for the presumed newbie. I've since answered some questions on Stack Overflow, but I don't think I'd ever ask another one :-)

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    the C and C++ tags are among the tags on SO that are the best at keeping it clean. You experienced that first hand. Consider switching to the Android tag, question there come with a default upvote :). And I don't want to ruin your sympathy for the bot, but it does return the reputation on all questions and answers to the OP when it deletes posts. Sorry.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 17:36
  • 3
    I feel for you; the struggle to ask a question is understandable. It's a learned skill, like any other. But it doesn't change the standards that are in place, nor that all content is held to that standard.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 17:37
  • Just so, but fortunately we still have comp.lang.c++ (but not alas comp.lang.c++.moderated)
    – Daniel
    Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 0:22
  • 1
    @rene At least C questions always seem to come with a default upvote, which I then counter. As for Daniel, if you got the authoritative answer in a C++ group you could write a self-answered QA on that. Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 8:46
  • @Antti Haapala, I thought about that, answering it myself, with proper citation to the source, of course. Stack Overflow had an answer to a related but simpler problem, which I'd studied before posting my question, and the correct answer to mine had a wrinkle to it - alignment can be tricky when imagining crazy implementations. But I wasn't sure if answering it myself was kosher, and then the bot took the decision out of my hands :-) C'est la vie.
    – Daniel
    Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 13:59
  • Of course self-answer is kosher - in fact if you look into the Ask a question dialog you can tick a box there to answer your own question and post both at the exact same moment! Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 14:39
  • And you can ask a moderator to find your deleted question if you want to review it (if you happen to have a link in browser history that would work too) Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 14:43
  • @Antti Haapala, your thoughts appreciated, but it no longer matters, the question dates back to 2015, it's in the archives of comp.lang.c++.moderated, and the answer is used in some open source software. In the process I discovered that the C++ usenet groups were a better place for me than Stack Overflow :-) I'm only speaking for myself, of course.
    – Daniel
    Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 15:19
-13

Sadly that is true. Anything I ask will get downvotes after 15 mins. Mostly they don't even read the question thoroughly and close it. Once I had to ask the dude who closed my thread to read the question again, and he was like 'Oh right so I thought you said something else.' Then he opened the thread again. I bet someone is gonna remove this post.

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    None of your questions have downvotes Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 11:51
  • Because I deleted them.
    – arm
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 11:53
  • 2
    Why is it sadly true? Could there be a benefit for many visitors if not every question that pops-up in some head gets materialized in a question?
    – rene
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 11:54
  • 1
    I deleted the questions which got downvotes and that's why you all can't find them. Got a badge for it. Peer pressure or something. But before knowing that, you all judged and downvoted this question. You see what I'm talking about? You actually confirmed my point in here.
    – arm
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 11:55
  • 1
    Also what you describe is how the system works. You challenged an action, it got rectified. How is that sad?
    – rene
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 11:55
  • 1
    Voting on meta also includes disagreement as down vote reason. I disagree with your statement, hence my down vote. And I did read your answer twice. Just in case I get that thrown back at me.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 11:57
  • @rene It's sad because It's bulling. The questions are perfectly fine. The description is clear if you read them, they are not duplicates, and they are asked after a process of searching and I come here as the last solution. Don't think for a second I like to deal with the guy who got some 'badges' in a website and feel superior which that part is more laghable than sad.
    – arm
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 12:00
  • 7
    I have to tell you I have far more downvoted posts than you - I can see your deleted posts. Most of your questions have not been downvoted 2/10. So this answer is a little disingenuous.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 12:00
  • 1
    @arm makes it pretty hard for us to advise you where you're going wrong if all your poor quality content is deleted. Sounds like the "someone" that is going to remove this post is most likely yourself. Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 12:01
  • @rene I take downvotes as hatred and insult.
    – arm
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 12:01
  • 10
    @arm that's really an overreaction and it's outside of the scope of the site
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 12:02
  • 2
    Well, then you'll have a hard time participating on the SE network sites I'm afraid. Im sorry you take that so personal. Votes are about the content, not about you. We like you, we really do.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 12:02
  • @arm, "downvotes as hatred and insult " is wrong, rather, think of it as a tribal response to foster conformity :-) But as this tribe can't really harm you in any way, it's not important. Be grateful to the people that are helpful, and leave it at that.
    – Daniel
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 18:52
-43

Personally, I think all this talk of spending hours on our own research, before we ask a question is absurd. And I almost never do it. In the normal course of my day, I am working with C# (and all that entails), SQL Server, Entity Framework, JavaScript, jQuery, Bootstrap, HTML5, CSS, various third party tools and plugins and on and on and on. Should I realistically be expected to spend hours researching an issue on any one of these topcis when I have an infinate amount of technology to learn? Technology that changes every few months? I don't have the time. I can generally ask a question here and get it answered in a few minutes. When I come here, I'm after a quick answer to a question. I then move on to the next grease fire that awaits me.

There are times I absolutely know for sure I'm going to get blasted for asking it. That's ok. I just log into SO with a different account where I don't care if I get 5 downvotes, as long as I get my question answered.

As a personal note. I think there would be far fewer downvotes if the people who downvoted an answer or question had their identities revealed, and it cost a bit more to your rep to do it. I don't know why SO doesn't do that. I think that many people who downvote questions and/or answers are cowards that wouldn't do it if people knew who they were.

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  • 21
    This is why we can't have nice things.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:55
  • 27
    I don't have the time. but you expect others to invest that time and share the outcome with you? Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:57
  • 25
    Kinda funny when someones typing "That's ok. I just log into SO with a different account where I don't care if I get 5 downvotes" and "I think there would be far fewer downvotes if the people who downvoted an answer or question had their identities revealed" in the same answer... Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:58
  • 9
    You don't have to spend hours on every single issue, but you should spend an amount of time equivalent to the complexity of the problem. If you can't be bothered to spend 10 minutes trying to figure out a typo yourself, or a few hours (at the very least) trying to figure out a question about one of the most complex issues anyone's ever asked on Stack Overflow, you shouldn't be asking questions here. Commented May 20, 2014 at 15:58
  • 21
    It's people like you that are killing this community with a thousand needles. It has worked very hard to resist the drain that people like you put on the community, but it has been getting hurt more and more as time goes on. One day the community may end up being killed entirely due to an inability to keep people like you out of it.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:01
  • 3
    @Servy - Get real. I don't ask senseless questions. Most of my questions are questions that someone else will have or have had, and didn't have the time to spend 2 hours reading documentation. If you have an issue with that, that is too bad. And, conversely, I never mind answering such questions, as you can tell from my profile. Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:01
  • 26
    @RandyMinder I'm dead serious. You're actively harming the community because you can't be bothered to do the work that your employer is hiring you to do. It seems like it's no big deal to you now, but it is. The community is slowly dying, and failing to accomplish the mission it set out to do, because people like you are allowed to exist, your questions are answered, and so you continue to damage the community more and more. That you don't care is obvious, and disgusts me.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:04
  • 9
    @RandyMinder That you also answer these terrible questions is not a good thing. It doesn't "redeem" you. It's actually far, far, far worse. The only thing worse than asking terrible questions is answering terrible questions, because it encourages people to continue to ask more of them.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:05
  • 6
    @RandyMinder And that's in large part due to the effort that people spend closing and deleting those bad questions so that people don't see them. But that effort is still being spent, and when people continue to flood the site with more crap, it begins to exceed the ability of the site to deal with it. Over time more and more bad questions end up not being closed, because the rate of bad questions is increasing faster than the site's ability to cope with them. Beyond that, when you freely admit to never trying to find existing answers to your problems you obviously wouldn't be affected.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:09
  • 13
    @RandyMinder Yet you freely admit to creating additional accounts to ask questions that you know are bad, that you know will get downvoted, and that you know are the garbage questions that you say you don't ask. Beyond that, I agree that it is a serious problem on this site that many very poorly researched questions get upvoted, as well as answered. If you're not doing research that you know would solve your problem and getting upvotes on your question that's a problem with the system. Too many people refuse to downvote crap, and even upvote it.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:14
  • 7
    If you think that the question is a good question, it's well researched, helpful, clear, well presented, on topic, appropriately scoped, etc. then why would you be asking it using another account. If you feel that the question is a good question then be proud of it; own it. That you won't is a pretty strong indication that you know it's not a good question. That or you think that questions that don't meet the site's guidelines should be allowed, in which case I've made it abundantly clear why that mindset is actively harmful to the community.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:19
  • 11
    "I think that many people who" post crap questions under a different account "are cowards that wouldn't do it if people knew who they were"
    – kapa
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:25
  • 5
    Bad questions are extremely draining on the community. The end up being read by lots of people, evaluated; people spend time trying to help improve the question, or close/delete it, or worse still answering a question that isn't actually clear, appropriate scoped, or that contains sufficient information to be answerable. These all drain the community. They just don't bother *you, someone who admits to not even searching for solutions before asking questions and who benefits from the significant time spent by other community members without seeing the negative effects.
    – Servy
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:30
  • 21
    the level of selfishness, disrespect and complete disregard for others in this "answer" brilliantly highlights the type of people that we don't need in the Industry much less the SO community. Admits to shill accounts to ask things they know will be downvoted out of selfishness and laziness. this should be worthy of a ban if anything is! What drains me is the selfish, entitled, disrespectful and arrogant that attitude displayed by this person
    – user177800
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 16:48
  • 4
    you can be self-righteous when you get to 9:1 or greater, 2:1 doesn't mean anything since you already admitted to spamming the site with crap on other shill accounts. more hypocritical crap.
    – user177800
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 17:09

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