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Are there any languages that break the normal conventions of which enclosing glyphs mean what?

Core of the question:

Are there languages that don't use enclosing-glyphs in the most common manner:

  • [] - indexing
  • () - method calls/parameterisation
  • {} - control or declaration flow

Not really sure why that's described as 'unfocussed'?

It surely can't be asking me to clone it into 3 identical questions, for each glyph-type, can it?

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    Are there languages... well there are lots and lots of those so that's a long long list to consider. Also what practical programming question are you asking here? What problem are you trying to solve? The question overall doesn't seem a good fit here. Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:21
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    Generally, "make a list"-type questions are closed as lacking focus/being too broad. We want to avoid the situation where one answer gets posted for each programming language that anyone can think of that meets the stated requirement.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:21
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    If the answer the question you asked, "Are there languages that break these conventions for the main three ?" is "yes", would you be content with that answer? Note that "yes" isn't something that can be put in an answer, as it's too short.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:21
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    "Are there languages that don't use enclosing-glyphs in the most common manner:" Brainfuck, Malbolgia, Whitespace, Ook! - there you go, four off the top of my head. Now, is that really useful answer to you? How lengthy of a list are you looking for?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:30
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    It's unclear to me what exactly the question is asking for. Would any off-side rule language such as Python count for "{} - control or declaration flow"? Do lambda-calculus-style languages count for "() - method calls/parameterisation" due to applications? Do esolangs count? Even if one of these is a "yes", that's a massive list. Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:32
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    @Larnu you could be cheeky: "Yes, there are languages that use [], (), and {} which is not the same usage as other languages." should cover the minimum requirement.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:32
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    Come to our sister site Code Golf for more fun: What programming languages have been created by CGCC users? :)
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:58
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    What counts as a programming language? Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 10:10
  • I've seen XML used as a programming language, the only brackets involved where < and >... Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 10:58
  • VBA uses () for indexing, [] is for escaping object names with spaces in them, I'm not sure {} is used for anything at all, maybe inlining array elements? Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:02
  • @RobertLongson, it's not a practical question, it's a "general interest" question. There is no problem.
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:26
  • @Larnu :P Agreed; if the question were on topic (see CodyGray) I agree it should be phrased "What languages break...?"
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:27
  • @VLAZ If you opened the question you would find that it clarified the point and thus none of those fit the requirement ... with the possible exception of Malbolgia? I haven't looked at it more than a glance.
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:29
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    @Brondahl Your question falls foul on each of the 4 points listed on stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic, also the help center doesn't cover everything. A lot of decisions/expectations are documented on meta here and on meta.stackexchange. For example, your question is what is called a "shopping list question", see Why was my "shopping list" question closed?. Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:51
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    There is a whole class of them: Concatenative programming languages. Which includes the venerable Forth (since approx. 1968). Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 14:36

2 Answers 2

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The question is overall not useful. That, by itself, is not a close reason but it does make it a bit hard to pick one single close reason, as it is also off-topic.

The following apply:

  • Needs details or clarity
  • Needs more focus
  • Seeking recommendations for books, tools, software libraries, and more

All could be applicable. I would personally have gone for "Needs more focus" as you are asking for a potentially infinite list of items. Note that the explanation is "This question currently includes multiple questions in one. It should focus on one problem only." which can be misleading. The old name of this close reason was "Too broad" and after renaming the guidance for how to be used has not changed.

See "Needs more focus" section in Question Close Reasons - Definitions and Guidance:

Any complete answer to the question would have to be very long and excessively detailed to ensure all points are covered (i.e. the question can be answered by an entire book or website)

I can also see how users might vote for needing clarity as the explanation is quite simplistic. [] is used for indexing but what about a language that also uses it to define a tuple? TypeScript does that. While, for example, C# uses () to define a tuple as well as for making calls to functions and methods. Would that count, should it be listed? There is no clarity.

The recommendations close reason is a bit weak to apply but I can see it being used in spirit. Recommendations questions attract the type of responses that this question might also attract. Overall, not useful answers which mention this or that and it is hard to really maintain them conveniently and effectively.


With that said, I want to reiterate that the question is not useful. There is really no practical application for this information. There are many languages out there. Many, many. A lot of many.

Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook.
Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook?
Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook.
Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook.
Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook.
Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook.
Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook!
Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook.

This is a programming language called Ook!. The code above is a Hello World program. As you can see, it does not use any brackets. Therefore it should go on the list. Yet, so what? Finding languages that do not use brackets (at least in the same way as other languages) has no practical application. At best it satisfies curiosity. Looking around the Esolang wiki, you would find many such languages that often deliberately break common idioms of other languages. Or they can be derived from an entirely different family, e.g., LISP and derivatives like Scheme are known for liberal use of () as "code blocks"*. The style of LISP-derivatives tends to be quite different from the C derivatives which include Java, C++, C#, etc.

* Simplistic explanation

All this is to again say that a list of languages that fit your criteria is not something that has much, if any, use.

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    Ook, thanks for your answer.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 9:55
  • Thank you - sounds like the issue is "list answers are off-topic", which is a reasonable community rule. All good :) Personally I definitely wouldn't use "needs focus" (or even "too broad") to refer to "we've decided that collated list questions are something we want". I would have said "broad & vague" is very different from "extremely precise, but is a list question". But it doesn't matter that much.
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:15
  • SideNote1: I don't see how it could possibly fall into Seeking recommendations for books, tools, software libraries, and more? I've clearly not asked for any kind of recommendation?
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:18
  • SideNote2: If you actually open the question you'll see that I specifically clarified that this was about Languages that DID use those glyphs for OTHER things. So no, Ook is not a candidate. Ook!
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:20
  • SideNote3: If we were going to compile the list, then yes, I probably would include languages where the glyphs have additional usages, like your tuples examples. (Though I'd probably put them in a separate section?) But since we aren't making the list ... :D
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:21
  • @Brondahl Re: SideNote1 - I personally agree. As I said, I find the reasoning weak. However, I can see somebody choosing that close reason as the post fits the spirit of the close reason. Essentially, the outcome is the same and the post falls under the same concerns that a recommendation question would. Re: SideNote2 - I didn't check the question, I was only going off the quote here. At any rate, I am sure there are many other clarifications that people can come up with. Problem with there being many languages, mostly, that use various syntax conventions.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:48
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    @Brondahl as for "Personally I definitely wouldn't use "needs focus"" it's actually the close reason that fits the most. It used to be called "Too broad" and in the description it explained that asking for exceptionally large answers was off-topic. At a later point SE updated the close reason text. One of the changes included the Too broad being changed to Needs focus. Yet, it wasn't meant as a change to the close reason itself, just clarifying the text. Yet, annoyingly, it made the close reason less clear.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 12:52
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    The recommendation reason seems to be fit very well, IMO. Recommendations are, paraphrased, "What is an X that satisfies my need for Y?" and that seems to be what was asked for. What else is the question asking for other than examples picked according to the answerers' preference? Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 14:47
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From the Don't Ask page,

You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face. Chatty, open-ended questions diminish the usefulness of our site and push other questions off the front page.

This question definitely does not seem like a "practical, answerable question based on an actual problem that you face." Rather, it's just a "trivia question" as written. Is there a specific reason that you need a programming language with those characteristics, or is it just idle curiosity? What's the practical significance of the information?

Also, this question is basically just an open-ended request for lists of things.

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