-18

I wrote Why is this question closed as 'unfocused'; how could it be improved? I've acquired the answer to "why was this closed?", and I'm happy with it. I'm not looking to get the question re-opened, or disputing the community's decision on what is on- or off-topic.

However, I do wonder why the meta question itself, asking for clarification and input, is getting downvoted.

The obvious explanation would be "well you should have known why it was downvoted, you didn't need to ask", except that's not true.

Neither the help/on-topic page, nor the help/dont-ask page have anything declaring that such questions are unsuitable. The don't-ask page only talks about subjective questions, which this one isn't (in my opinio - I guess you could argue that subjectivity is itself subjective, but that still arrives back at "it's reasonable to ask why this question isn't suitable").

I'd also argue that the "What does Closed mean?" page linked to in the Close notice doesn't explain either:

Needs more focus - If your question has many valid answers (but no way to determine which, if any, are correct)

My question has many answer languages but all are correct.

Even the detailed "What does this specific Close Reason mean?" post doesn't really cover it, since any given answer is short and specific.

Truly the answer for "why is it closed?" is simply that the community has decided that this form of question, which invites that form of answer, is just not one that the community wants to have here.

That's fair enough, but it's not documented anywhere! So why the hate when someone asks for clarification?

If the community criticizes people for asking about the undocumented conventions of the community, then how do you expect people to find out about those undocumented conventions?

19
  • Closing as a duplicate of meta.stackexchange.com/questions/158809/…, would have been a neat way of expressing that, if that were the objection. But my impression is that we're asked not to downvote duplicate questions on the main SE ... so why would be do it here?
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:00
  • 5
    You are taking the wrong takeaway. Users are disagreeing that it wasn't clear, the reason your original question was closed and thus disagree with the meta-question being necessary. I formed that takeaway when an answer to your meta question received 10 upvotes by saying point blank, "your question wasn't helpful". The fact you are now complaining about downvotes to this question, before anyone has a chance to provide feedback, is sort of funny. Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:02
  • 8
    "getting downvoted. With no comments or explanations." Just like on Stack Overflow, comments on up/down votes are not required on the meta sites.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:04
  • 7
    "[M]y impression is that we're asked not to downvote duplicate questions on the main SE" I don't know how you developed that impression; it is untrue. Reasons for downvoting are in the tooltip for the downvote arrow. Lack of research effort is a common downvote reason. A duplicate question often shows a lack of research effort. Regarding your original Meta question, it was downvoted because people disagree with your premise (implicit or explicit) that your question on the main site was fine, did not violate any rules, and should be reopened. Votes on Meta sites often indicate agreement.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:04
  • @SecurityHound and the literal next 8 words of that answer are "That, by itself, is not a close reason"
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:04
  • 1
    @Brondahl - It used to be. It was removed a while ago. However, it's a reason to downvote, and unhelpful questions should be modified to become helpful to the community. I can tell by your response you won't be receptive of my opinion on the subject, so I won't continue to engage in this discussion Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:06
  • @SecurityHound sure ... that is a very reasonable reason to downvote the original question ... but it doesn't explain down-voting the meta -question.
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:07
  • 1
    @CodyGray is there any way to ask for more information without getting downvoted?
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:07
  • 8
    "is there anyway to ask for more information without getting downvoted?" XY problem? Why would downvotes, or any votes, matter?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:08
  • uhh ... I assume that the purpose of downvotes is negative re-inforcement? "Please don't do this thing we don't want you to do!". On the main SE, that's "please don't ask <bad questions>". Makes sense; stop people from asking bad questions. On Meta (for this question) it has the appearance of "don't come and ask us why it was closed or how to improve it. If it's unclear then just suck-it-up"?
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:11
  • 6
    There is no way to guarantee that something won't get downvoted. Why is that a problem? Why does there need to be a way to avoid downvotes? Downvotes, especially on Meta sites, mean that people disagree with you. Isn't that actually useful information when you ask for information? I mean, it may not be the most pleasant thing in the world, but it's certainly not among the worst. There isn't even any reputation on Meta. Downvotes literally do nothing but change the score to the side of your post, which is nothing more than a representation of the community's feeling about it (i.e., popularity).
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:16
  • Fair enough, thank you for the response :)
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:17
  • 3
    Yesterday, I announced a feature that people [so far] quite like; it's been roundly upvoted. A few years ago, I announced a feature that people really didn't like. That not only is useful information for me, but it's useful for everyone else who sees it. Furthermore, being able to simply vote avoids a bunch of noisy "I like this"/"I hate this" comments from everyone who wants to share their opinion. After all, on a community discussion/feedback site, isn't that the most important thing? To me, it is.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:19
  • 7
    It might not be useful to you, but it is useful to others. Votes aren't just for the author of a post, they are for all users. Otherwise how would a user reading an answer know that the post has been found to be not helpful by others, while another has been found helpful by many others.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 13:21
  • 1

1 Answer 1

13

First of all, voting is designed to be helpful to other viewers, not the author. There's little takeaway from the post score for the author. While on the main it can indicate that the author should improve the wording or the overall quality of the post if possible, on meta it means pretty much nothing to the author. The only takeaway for the author is that the community agrees or disagrees with the premise of your post. Feel free to ignore that feedback.

Downvotes don't require a comment. Same as upvotes, it's a silent feedback. It serves its purpose to indicate to others how worthwhile the question is. On meta, most of the time it expresses disagreement with the topic, e.g. when there's a feature request or discussion on some topic. Votes are never a personal attack on the author. They've got nothing to do with who the author is or what they did. Complaining about it is as pointless as complaining about the arrangement of stars in the sky.

In terms of your specific meta question, the downvotes are probably because the topic is very narrow. The explanation is also very simple. There's not much to discuss there. It's just a single person asking for some explanation from the community. Why would we find a question like this useful? Bear in mind that we aren't telling you not to ask questions like this in the future. Meta is the perfect place to discuss this. It's just that it has no value for the average reader of the question. If I were you I wouldn't care or be surprised about it. It has no impact on your account, you got an explanation, and I doubt that many other people will ask themselves the same question about that particular post in the future.

3
  • 3
    Thank you; CodyGray had roughly outlined this, but the full details and additional explicit thoughts are useful. :D
    – Brondahl
    Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 14:22
  • 1
    Re "complaining about the arrangement of stars in the sky": Not counting Type III civilizations. Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 14:47
  • Only this most recent meta question may have additional effect on @Brondahl's main site rep score as (if I'm interpreting things correctly), the main site question has received additional down-votes today, and that may be related to their posting an additional meta question complaining about the response to the prior meta question, bringing additional attention to the original main-site question that generated all of this, a meta-meta-effect. Commented Jan 20, 2023 at 16:53

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .