69

In China, there is a national blockage of Imgur-hosted images. So when an answer is "image-only", it may be an interesting answer for many viewers, but it's completely blank for me and others in that country.

Here is what I'm seeing in some reviews (https://stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/): An image-only answer to review in the Low Quality Posts queue, but without the image displaying

What is the appropriate action?

  • Skip, because I can't personally evaluate the content of the image.
  • Delete, regardless of the quality of the content of the image.

Note: image-only answers might also be an issue for blind people.

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  • 41
    Images in code have never been acceptable. In this context it looks like it may be an image of code. So maybe delete is the best option.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 5:04
  • 5
    @OlegValter well, it's an image of the code running. But it still hardly changes anything - the answer is still basically a comment to the effect of "I cannot recreate it".
    – VLAZ
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 5:56
  • 14
    If that is an image of running code I'm disappointed. At least make an animated GIF ...
    – rene
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 6:01
  • 3
    @OlegValter Well, it wasn't just an image of code, the image also includes the result of running it. It's a different thing for me. But the end result is the same in both cases.
    – VLAZ
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 6:01
  • 6
    @rene it runs at 1 frame
    – VLAZ
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 6:02
  • 22
    I would not vote to delete content I cannot see fully, even if I strongly suspect it worthy to be deleted (maybe the image is so good that one could edit and salvage the post instead). Even looks okay might be risky (the image might be spam or really bad). As long as somebody looks after the content, skip would be the safest option. Commented May 5, 2021 at 8:28
  • 6
    I'd argue that there is one case when image-only answer could be reasonable, and that is when the question is about something in a GUI tool. Although a good answer should provide a textual description as well. Commented May 5, 2021 at 10:04
  • 6
    there is a downvote button, did you use it?
    – gnat
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 10:18
  • 5
    It's the same for me when I'm on my corporate network, so I made your question a bit more general.
    – Michael
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 12:13
  • 5
    get a vpn running :)
    – Fabian
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 13:11
  • 6
    Before I started using the SE network, I found myself searching the big wide web for assistance to my issues, only to be faced with multiple forums containing broken links or empty image placeholders. It's extremely frustrating that your answer is right in front of you but isn't. SO isn't a forum - but a Q&A repository - and it's goal is reliability. No matter what the author's intent is today, any link or any image is subject to be removed at some point in time. If we allow link-only or image-only answers to go unmoderated, then SO will be no better off than any other forum out there. Commented May 5, 2021 at 17:50
  • 4
    And to add, this isn't only a "country" issue, but many workplaces (the same workplaces people are on here searching for assistance with) block certain websites, especially many image-hosting sites. I know that we already delete link-only answers, and to me an embedded image is nothing more than a link working some visual magic. Commented May 5, 2021 at 17:57
  • 2
    @K.DAVIS , "then SO will be no better off than any other forum out there." is not really true, don't put all Forums in the same bag, many Forums are doing "better" than SO with Images/Screenshots... I moderate a Tech Forum and force Users to upload their Screenshots directly to "our" Forum (in 'phpBB') without using any external Pix Hosting Sites which indeed "one day" all go dark or commercial..., which SO is trying to secure/avoid with the 'stack' Sub-Domain on 'imgur'...
    – chivracq
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 18:52
  • 3
    @K.Dᴀᴠɪs The main problem with link-only answers is that if the link dies then the answer becomes useless. Stack Overflow host their own images so there isn't the same problem. The image will continue to be hosted as long as the post exists.
    – Michael
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 20:31
  • 4
    *as long as the Stack Exchange / Imgur agreement holds, yes. Commented May 5, 2021 at 21:13

6 Answers 6

52

You cannot see the full post, but you want to judge it? That's risky. Skip would be the safer option. Especially since there are enough reviewers in other countries where the full posts are shown. They can take care of these posts.

What can go wrong?

  • You click on looks ok, but the image is spam or really bad.
  • You click on delete, but the image is actually good and might be used to edit and salvage the post.
  • You click on edit, but the image content would be important for making an edit.

These cases might not be very likely, but why taking the risk? How can you be sure without seeing the full content?

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  • 37
    Picture only answers are non-answers by definition as far as I know. That means delete is a safe option
    – Kami Kaze
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 10:15
  • 11
    @KamiKaze Often but not always delete is a good option. There is still the salvage option via an edit. Commented May 5, 2021 at 10:45
  • 9
    I do not think so. It is not in the sense of this site that some one has to go through the picture and type the content in the answer box only for the poster to get the rep. If you mean OP should edit the answer, he can undelete it and improve or write a new/better one.
    – Kami Kaze
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 11:21
  • 2
    @KamiKaze Sure, you can say that. No objection. In that case you would probably support the other answer more. It actually touches on how much part of the content images are. One could say that they are purely optional. About rep, I'm so much past caring about rep. I'm more of an editor lately because I think this is a really rewarding activity. I get no rep for it, nor would I want it. Commented May 5, 2021 at 11:37
  • 2
    People with sufficient reputation, and the OP, can edit the post after it is "deleted". There is sufficient latitude in the system for salvaging the post. We do not need to leave the answer available in its unedited form as a reminder to every visually impaired person how little their needs mean to the world at large. Commented May 5, 2021 at 13:20
  • 2
    Regarding "You cannot see the full post, but you want to judge it?" So, if you're blind, and can't see the image, does that mean you can't judge the post? Are blind people unable to review posts with images? Should we make it impossible for blind people to vote on posts with images because they are incapable of judgement of the image content? Commented May 5, 2021 at 13:39
  • 5
    @HereticMonkey "...leave the answer available..." Skipping a review does not imply the answer remains available. Not sure why you mention blind so often, it doesn't matter if you are blind of if the images just aren't available as in the question. In the end it revolves around how much images are part of the content. And this question is about reviewing, not about voting in general. Commented May 5, 2021 at 14:17
  • 1
    I mention blind so often because you seem to be implying, in that comment I mentioned, that one who cannot see is unable to judge. I find that offensive. That's one of the reasons we have the rule around not allowing images without accompanying text. Commented May 5, 2021 at 14:29
  • 4
    @KamiKaze That's a dangerously wrong assumption to apply for all answers. Say for example someone wanted to know what a finite-state machine looked like for a certain regex. A correct and valid answer would be an image of that finite-state machine. Commented May 5, 2021 at 14:30
  • 4
    @HereticMonkey I see. And I don't like much that there seems to be only black and white for you in this matter. I write that it's risky and things can go wrong and you write that I'm saying that people are unable to judge. Commented May 5, 2021 at 15:02
  • 3
    If one cannot see the whole answer how you can be the judge of that answer? Suppose that an answer just shows a series of menu choices on a programming tool that you should click to answer the question. An image is surely better than a series of texts with the menu names to choose. I will always skip if I cannot judge and I cannot judge correctly if I haven't all the facts. It is simply presumptuous to think that you always know the truth
    – Steve
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 17:26
  • 9
    @HereticMonkey The queues are a place where problematic, even offensive, posts go to be handled. If you can’t ensure you’re taking the best possible action on a post, then you should skip it. Yes this means that a visually impaired person will have to skip some reviews, but that’s only so that we can make good content be accessible to all instead of just deleting it (the chance of it getting fixed after deletion is so slim).
    – Laurel
    Commented May 5, 2021 at 17:28
  • 2
    This is too hypothetical. Yes there is a non-zero risk the image is so magnificent that the post is worth saving, but honestly how close to zero is that? Whatever you're risking, it stops being a concern given low enough risk.
    – Passer By
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 9:52
  • 2
    @PasserBy If you want to argue that "all image-only posts can be automatically deleted without looking at the images by everyone" (and I'm not saying that you necessarily favor that personally), why not go one step further and prevent image-only answers being submitted in the first place? It seems mindless to allow "invalid" answers to be posted, and then have a separate process that automatically deletes them. Put another way, why is it even possible to submit image-only answers if they are unacceptable?
    – skomisa
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 4:42
  • 2
    @skomisa You put it as if image-only answers are completely objective. It's not. Whether the surrounding words constitutes as explanation is somewhat subjective. It's a judgement call, but not on the image.
    – Passer By
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 6:44
42

Answer a simple question:

Is the answer still useful if all links and images suddenly die?

If yes, the post is, at a minimum, an OK one (you might want to skip to avoid approving an irrelevant or malicious image on accident), otherwise, it is a prime candidate for deletion.

Regarding your note about visually impaired users - yes, such posts are also not very accessible, to put it mildly (unless paired with a really descriptive alt text, but I doubt most posters even care to replace the placeholder, let alone conform with WCAG).

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  • 1
    Yeah, only in recent years have folks been increasingly compelled/reminded to add alt text to their images. I never did with any of mine on Stack Overflow. But I've been intentional about doing it only very recently. Markdown doesn't make it easy to provide alt text, to be fair. I'm much, much better at it on Twitter now - I only forget to add a description to one image I tweet out of every 20 or so.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 5:15
  • 1
    This is why I'm reluctant to link to individual revisions - they don't show a comparison to the one before them, and while the source is available, you can only get to it from the revision history, not the individual one. The revision history doesn't contain anchors either. Maybe I should post a feature request.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 5:17
  • @BoltClock - I think it will make for a good feature request. It is strange to not have the option to switch markdown/side-by-side/inline when viewing a single revision - largely reduces the usefulness of the view.
    – 0Valt
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 5:58
  • 1
    If there is alt-text it would show in the "broken image" render area, so OP would be able to see it. There's nothing preventing a spammy image from using misguiding alt-text, of course, but I don't think anyone spamming goes to such lengths... it's pretty low surface area.
    – J...
    Commented May 7, 2021 at 21:04
6

Just my two cents here, I don't wish to pass any authoritative statements just yet.

Review items that are inaccessible to a reviewer are a special breed. The only reliable review that a reviewer can pass on such an item is that the content is inaccessible. That's a very strong case for remedial action. But that's where the reviewer's ability ends — they are unable to specify what action should be taken on such an item. (That's why it's an accessibility issue, and that's why inaccessible content is said to disable users.) This is where Trilarion's answer comes in — the best option is to skip. But it's worth adding a comment explaining that the content is inaccessible, before hitting skip.

While image-only answers are subject to deletion, let's assume we collectively decided to redefine "image-only answer" to mean "answer consisting of one or more images, with no supporting text at all", which includes alt text that isn't "enter image description here" (unless it's a screenshot of "enter image description here", I guess).

If an image is just a pictorial representation of code or text that's not meant to be an image, it's better off as plain text. I think everyone who doesn't regularly post images of code or text understands this.

If the answer to a question is, by its very nature, an image (citing Spencer's finite-state machine visualization example), then the image needs alt text in order to serve its purpose. With the right alt text, it can stand as an answer. I know alt text seems merely like a hot trend right now and I myself have not been alt-texting my own images for years either, but it's time we exercised more responsibility in doing so, when posting images. That's not to say that I think we need to start flagging content for moderator attention (as it's not an issue for mods) or we need to start handing out warnings to users who regularly don't make their images accessible — I just want to encourage this practice more now. There are far more developers with vision disabilities of all sorts among us than you think.

The question, then, becomes who should be responsible for adding text descriptions? Is it the post author, or can any editor or reviewer do that on their behalf? I'd say let anyone who can access and understand the image do it. You may be surprised by how challenging it is to determine how to properly describe an image, even if you're going into it with every intention of doing so. How much context should you include? Does the visual appearance of the subject of the image matter (e.g. its shape, color, texture, background)? Should a description of the intent be added, or should it be more literal? The HTML alt attribute doesn't make it easy either once you realize your alt text is either getting long or requires multiple paragraphs, and Markdown doesn't exactly help on that front. Generally, though, I'd say that if the surrounding prose provides enough practical context for an image, then the image can have a shorter, simpler and/or more literal description.

In the event that no one is able to provide a description for an image in an image-only answer, well, I guess we'll just have to fall back to our long-standing policy that image-only answers are subject to deletion. But only by reviewers who can access and assess the image.

On the topic of voting, how should you vote on content that is inaccessible to you? Well, you can downvote it, or you can abstain from voting. Content that remains inaccessible is not useful, and indeed actively detrimental, to those who can't access it. So I would consider that a compelling reason to downvote, if you believe it's unlikely to be made accessible later on.

1

Delete it. The answer isn't useful to you because you can't see any of the content. This is exactly why images of code are not allowed in questions; they're not helpful in answers either for many of the same reasons.

Also, the example you show in your question ought to be a comment, and the entire question should be closed as "typo or cannot reproduce." Simply saying "I cannot reproduce this" is not an answer.

Edit: The question in question is now closed as a typo.

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  • 4
    For images of code: Sure, delete them. But if you aren't able to see the image, how are you supposed to know that the image shows code?
    – BDL
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 8:54
  • @BDL Images of code should at a minimum be downvoted anyway, and often be closed. See meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/303812/…
    – tripleee
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 12:24
  • @BDL It's safe to assume that in that context, it is an image of code.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 20:17
0

I agree that images should not be part of answers if they are not a really necessary part of it. But, I can think of many situations in which an image says more than a thousand words.

What about cases when one wants to show a tiny detail in say a user interface that is hard to explain how to find with text only? Or maybe show a render anomaly in some image library? Or to explain a pattern or a workflow?

There are so many examples where an image could actually be the perfect answer and the only reason we would add text to the post or reply is so that anyone without access to the image can still find the relevant information.

My immediate take on it would thus be that it's wrong generalizing by saying that all image-only answers should be deleted if those actually fulfill the function of providing a concise answer. Rather such a post should be edited to contain both, text and image if both are necessary.

If we start deleting images just because certain countries ban it we literally bow to the pressure and that is not right. There is a fine line between accessibility and information clutter due to excessive text.

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  • 3
    I think you are misunderstanding the problem at hand a bit. We are not talking about good posts (voted as such by the community), we are talking about the Low Quality Posts review queue. The post is already very likely to be borderline, so if without an image it is indistinguishable from trash, I think it is reasonable to assume it is trash (pragmatic approach).
    – 0Valt
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 8:59
  • 2
    @OlegValter I do understand the problematic. What I have a problem is the not so reasonable assumption that something you can't see is automatically trash just because it happens to be downvoted. That's a slippery slope. Do you delete the post because it could be trash or because it contains an image-only answer? The op says specifically "if images are blocked for me" to which my immediate reaction is "but how can you then judge?".
    – mydogspies
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 9:17
  • 3
    ehm, as I said in my answer - I check if the post without the image would contain any useful info that is sufficient to answer the question. If not - it is not an answer, sorry. Also, please note that I mentioned that the preferred course of action is to skip just in case. But it is a very reasonable assumption that the post is trash (LQP + no discernable useful data native to SO).
    – 0Valt
    Commented May 6, 2021 at 9:27
  • 2
    If images are blocked, or you can't otherwise see the image, it is incumbent on the poster to provide information about what the image displays, in text, so that those who cannot see can still benefit, even if not as much. I can judge precisely because of that obligation. And there are ways of remedying the very occasional mishap when necessary. Commented May 6, 2021 at 19:46
0

As a rule of thumb:

Does the answer make sense without the image? Then "Skip" is the right choice here (the image might be anything, so you cannot claim the question is ok without looking at it).

Is the answer unusable without the attached image (e.g. "Click here" followed by the image). Then "Delete" is the only sensible choice (as the image might become unavailable eventually resulting in a useless answer).

Images can be used to complement and improve answers (e.g. "That error indicates that the Sprockets feature is disabled. To enable it under WhateverStudio 2042 you need to navigate to the WarbleThings submenu of the menu bar and set Sprockets to mandatory" followed by an screenshot of doing exactly that) but should not be the answer in itself.

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