-1142

We just announced a new feature test for the "thank you" reaction on The Overflow blog.

We discovered that “thanks” appears in 1 of 6 comments left under answers. Although it's less common on questions, the percentage of “thanks” comments has continued to slowly increase over the last few years.

chart showing the percent of comment on Stack Overflow with a "thank" in them, over time

Using this data and user research, we're introducing this clutter-free way for users to just say "thanks" to others for taking the time to answer questions.

Share your thanks

On the left of an answer post, you'll find a hands icon underneath the usual voting controls. By simply selecting the icon, you can share your thanks to the post-author. As reactions are added by users, a count of the reactions will appear below the icon.

This feature is available to all registered users, regardless of reputation (unlike voting, which is only available for users with 15 reputation or more).

Test variations

We’re testing two versions of the “thank you” icon:

We hope that this test will have a positive impact on our community and reduce:

  • Friction for users whose comments are deleted,
  • The burden on moderators, and
  • The time active users spend flagging/deleting comments.

Other details

  • Users will only be able to award 30 reactions during a single UTC day, like with voting, and you'll get a notification if you are approaching the target.
  • Users will only be able to award reactions to 5 posts by any given post owner during a single UTC day. You'll get a notification if you have reached the limit.
  • Reacting to an answer doesn't impact reputation so if you can vote and the answer solves the problem in the question, don't forget to vote as well.
  • Reactions don't notify the person who wrote the answer.

You can find more information about this in the Help Center.

What's next

We’ll be monitoring usage and other data over the next month and will use those results to inform how we may move forward with this experiment. If you run into any issues or bugs, please share them here.


Update: Please see Data validation & background for the Thank You Reaction feature test for more details on the plans for evaluating the results of this test, and for responding to the feedback given here

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  • 129
    The frst step to transform this community to a Social network? This seems to me the "Like" of facebook. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:31
  • 166
    Would it not have been a better idea to suggest this idea to the community first, get feedback and possible better solutions, and then test it? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:42
  • 83
    Oh no. Whatever next. Allow users to mark posts with emoticons? I really don't need to see clapping hands everywhere. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:44
  • 127
    I've just seen the feature and after reading the explanation page ... what exactly is the purpose? Isn't voting covering everything mentioned there?
    – akuzminykh
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:46
  • 32
    Surely this is what an upvote is for!? Why not just reduce that "1 in 6 coments says thanks" and do a "if comment.contains("thanks") && user == OP then upvote" and it might cull those 1/6 stats down a bit.. Are we soon to get a wired telephone, cobweb or maybe netscape navigator logo to mark answers as obsolete?
    – Caius Jard
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:50
  • 74
    (I can't help but think that changing the upvote tooltip to "This was useful, thanks" would have saved a lot of dev..)
    – Caius Jard
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:53
  • 65
    I thought Stack Overflow was done with forcing unpopular changes on its users
    – pppery
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:01
  • 109
    Could we have a "No-thanks" button for this post so that I can downvote it twice please?
    – Turnip
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:03
  • 24
    Why can't I thank myself? I tried to give myself a good thanking but I couldn't. Thanks! Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:09
  • 69
    Please note that most people use the "two hands touching palm-to-palm" emoji exclusively to indicate "praying" rather than 'high five', putting aside any addtional issues of trying to connote "upvote by providing +10 reputation and +1 score" with the act of giving someone a 'high five'.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:18
  • 57
    @LisaPark Please also study votes cast on questions affected by this as I suspect we'll see fewer votes cast on this as people thing a "high five" is adequate. That will have the unfortunate side effect of people spending their clicks and effort on actions that have no effect. I don't care if a post has 500 positive reactions, because that doesn't help me or the system classify it. If a post has 500 upvotes, it directly affects the status of the post within the Q&A page, and it directly affects the status and privileges the author has.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:25
  • 47
    Personally, I am not able to find the wisdom in introducing a second "meaningless-to-the-system" act which I can only see as diverting attention away from the method we already have for saying thanks, giving high fives, providing kudos, awarding chili peppers, etc: the upvote. I think such efforts would be better served by trying to point people more clearly to the up/down vote options.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:27
  • 50
    Was there some outcry for this "feature"? Why are SO devs wasting there time with this when there's a long list of other problems and features that have been hanging around for ages? Stackoverflow's founder already told us how to say thanks (2). Stop wasting your time and fix other things.
    – j08691
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:27
  • 49
    On Stack Exchange sites the way to say thank you is to upvote helpful answers and accept the most helpful by clicking the tick mark on the left. You're free to switch later when a better answer comes along.
    – Vickel
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:41
  • 38
    How are reactions supposed to be different than voting for the question? As a contributor and user -- why would I want a clapping hands icon instead of an upvote? Very confusing and bewildering what practical purpose these things are supposed to serve? Looks more like a gee-whiz widget looking for some place to be used rather than a solution crafted to solve an identified problem. How many years have we nuked "+1" comments? We'll go with it and see with where it goes... Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:36

102 Answers 102

1333

This feature serves no purpose. It will only make things more confusing.

Either the answer is a good answer worth up-voting or it is not. There is no middle ground. Saying thanks for what - mediocre answers?

Seriously, why, o why, o why ... why are you wasting time on such things that bring nothing?


Reactions don't notify the person who wrote the answer.

If the purpose of saying thanks is actually saying thanks to the person who wrote the answer, then I must say that not notifying the author is a bit of a strange choice.

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  • 24
    I disagree that this serves no purpose. As the post stands, yes the potential uses for this have not been explored fully, but this is a good step for providing useful signals on the efficacy of a post, short of doing sentiment analysis on comments.
    – cs95
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:42
  • 470
    @cs95 good step for providing useful signals on the efficacy of a post --> we already have this since too long and it"s called voting. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:47
  • 11
    Eh, notifications can be really noisy. I've uh... had to deal with a lot of them. If you take an action that only a small fraction could do and make it possible for everyone, the number of notifications can go up ... uh... exponentially... and that gets kinda annoying over time. Until we know how much these are used and how much impact they would have on someone's inbox, I wouldn't want to add the clutter to yours (or my own). Plus, for those who don't like the feature, it's much easier to ignore it if you aren't reminded of it constantly. :D
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:49
  • 56
    This will help surface new answers, with fewer votes, but answer the question better than others do --> I sitll don't see how the thanks will do this. It will not bump any new answer to the top and it won't reflect quality because it's here to say "thanks" to others for taking the time to answer questions and not to say "thanks" to others for taking the time to [give good and accurate] answer to questions Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:55
  • 62
    @Catija I agree that notifications can be noisy and I am not saying that I want them (for this feature)... but if purpose of this is saying thanks, then without notification, there is no actual thanks... unless you go to that page and see that your answer got "thanks". It kind of defeats the original purpose.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:06
  • 44
    @cs95 I don't see how this helps. You cannot sort by thanks. So it's unlikely to surface anything. If you visit a question with many existing answers and don't want to read them, then you wouldn't want to search for the one with more thanks assigned to it anyway. Furthermore "votes are skewed by time" the thanks are going to be even more sqewed. At the very least you can counter an upvote with a downvote. So you have a chance against outdated answers. Not with thanks an outdated answer can only get more thanks. It's unlikely that all people who thanked it will unthank.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:06
  • 8
    @DalijaPrasnikar very much agree. I'm not sold on the thanks idea but I agree that without notifications, it's even more useless. I have more than 400 answers - should I go through each on a regular basis to get a warm fuzzy feeling? I think I'd actually get more frustrated by seeing that only, say, 50 (probably an huge over estimation) got thanked. So, the thanks button really doesn't do anything for me as an answer writer. It seems only useful to other people who would read answers.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:09
  • 47
    On Stack Exchange sites the way to say thank you is to upvote helpful answers and accept the most helpful by clicking the tick mark on the left. You're free to switch later when a better answer comes along.
    – Vickel
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:36
  • 34
    @Catija If people don't have enough reputation to vote, they certainly don't have enough reputation to comment.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:09
  • 76
    "What is the harm" ... Well, there is already a problem with teaching new users that this is not a social platform and how they should use the site. Adding confusing features, like thanks will not make that part any easier.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:11
  • 31
    @Catija You mean...kinda like Ask Question wizard? Where gobs of dev time went, and it turned out to be barely marginal to some text on the ask page? Or the New Contributor icon, which doesn't seem to have served it's stated purpose, either?
    – fbueckert
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:32
  • 25
    @Catija Zoe posted some pretty good comments on another post, so I will not repeat. But the core problem is that you (SE) needs to educate users better about existing features and rules - not add more features that needs explaining.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 7:03
  • 11
    It doesn't only serves no purpose, it is plain harmful. I explained that in my dedicated answer. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:07
  • 58
    This was planned back in December @Catija And then in June, six months later, “Ta-da! Surprise!” “Hey, this is fun!” “Isn't it? No?” Was there any forewarning to SO users? Were any SO moderators consulted? P.S I haven't cast any vote, I wanted to UVote one comment beneath the announcement but couldn't. :(
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:13
  • 10
    This place is losing my interest each and every day. Look at the last time I answered or asked a question, it shows how much interest I have lost here. This feature makes me lose more interest.
    – JonH
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 14:16
641

What an unbelievably unnecessary thing. We already have voting!

the percentage of “thanks” comments have continued to slowly increase over the last few years

Likely because SO is getting more and more users, and they're not properly taught how the site works.

As other answers also point out: content or people?

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  • 38
    I understand your reaction but it also somewhat misses that a huge number of users don't have the 15 reputation needed to vote. Voting is amazing. I want more people to vote and to show what answers are great but if you can't vote, it's incredibly frustrating to not be able to indicate your appreciation... and people do try to vote. Thousands of votes go uncounted every day from people trying and having their votes rebuffed because they lack the reputation.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:35
  • 16
    The question asker isn't the only person who might want to vote on an answer.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:38
  • 63
    @Catija Yes, it's a problem that votes go uncounted. The solution to this would be to let users review all their previously cast votes when they reach the required reputation (15 and 125), and recast the vote if they voted correctly, or retract (do nothing) if they shouldn't have voted. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:41
  • 132
    so let people vote at any rep level, and when they reach that magic rep number all their votes go in as real votes.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:43
  • 44
    @Catija Then honestly, maybe their votes deserve to go uncounted. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:44
  • 31
    @Catija So I have to put up with seeing clapping hands everywhere? Please add a configuration option so we can turn off seeing them. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:46
  • 78
    @Catija the users who can't upvote aren't even close to being able to comment. This will only affect askers with <15 rep, and even then, if thanking becomes the new form of accepting, it breaks the rep system. What happens when rep growth starts stagnating, and nearly no one upvotes? Explaining the difference alone would end up being a clusterfuck. Introducing rep for thanking would end up being another farming vector, as well as making "votes" public (mentioned in a different answer here for t hose out of the loop; thanks are public). This change doesn't address the comment problem. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:26
  • 51
    We can't convince people downvotes mean "this post has problems" and not "this post is bad and you should feel bad about yourself", we somehow seem to fail hard at making people understand answers aren't comments, and lots of people don't vote already. This will just make it worse. The main concern for me is for new users who actually want to contribute to Stack - if they can't get the rep, they can't contribute. "Thanks" means exactly nothing in that area Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:29
  • 10
    This is still going to have a significant impact on new users trying to get rep, and especially those who need the rep to contribute more. Is it really worth losing potential future moderators over thanks? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:32
  • 35
    Also, we've lost a lot of the core userbase into the void, codidact, topanswers, and other places. If nothing is done to reverse that, or to try to refill the core userbase, SE itself is going to be screwed in every possible way. The protests raised here, if ignored, risks causing more people to leave, leaving a weaker core userbase to deal with moderation. All hail Spam Overflow in that case. Voting is already low, yes, but making it even lower with a "substitute" feature is not going to make it better. It instead pushes away the users that could be new core members by halting rep growth Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:39
  • 8
    This should be fairly obvious - reduced influx of new users with access to the relevant privileges, as well as more passive users and users leaving leads to a massive problem that no amount of clicking a "thanks" button will fix. A general sense of satisfaction doesn't give the privileges to help keep the site spam free and on-topic. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:40
  • 23
    You say a second problem is voting, but we aren't failing because users can't thank each other - as Andreas pointed out, we're failing to educate the new users on how the site works. Start addressing that instead of adding a useless "thanks" feature that only serves to take another hit at vote frequency. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:48
  • 8
    @Zoe At this point you're writing so many comments they should be in an answer - please? I think most of what you're saying is not relevant to the post it's on but I'd hate to lose your PoV.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:06
  • 8
    @Catija I'm not currently in a state of mind where that's a good idea. Besides, I got my point out there, and for now, that's good enough. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:17
  • 10
    @PM2Ring Yeah, on Twitter... Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 11:43
514

Now that I'm calm and joking about it, let’s explain why this feature won't have the desired effect:

  • People like to type "thanks". They like it so much that they type it as a tag to most posts.
  • The buttons aren't prominent enough. This could have been addressed by the same tool-tip, no?
  • There's a readily available solution: using regex on the comments so that posts containing th?anks? are reminded to use the upvote button. ("Why this is included on the list?" you may ask: because current rejection of the feature should have been an expected effect, yet is not a desired one, and this solution was not only proposed, SO already has content filter in comments, which was used for +/-1 comments. See previous post about it.)
  • Anonymous users say tons of thanks already via upvotes. They represent at least 80% of all votes. Last time I checked, that number was about right, although these anonymous votes are not displayed and don't change anything on the website. It's functionally equivalent to this feature and invisible, yet users continue doing it.
  • "Thanks" comes from people that already have access to the standard voting mechanism. Remember, commenting anywhere comes with a 50 reputation requirement, meanwhile upvoting just needs 15.
  • Allowing yet another avenue for saying "thanks" erodes the message: if the post was useful for you, upvote it!
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  • 9
    What do you mean by, "Anonymous users say tons of thanks already via upvotes, they represent at least 80% of all votes"? Aren't 100% of votes from authenticated users with 15+ votes? And, simultaneously, aren't 100% of votes "anonymous" in that their names aren't attached to their votes publicly? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:37
  • 27
    @JeremyCaney when you aren't logged in and try to vote, those are called anonymous users votes. In sede it's on the table anonymous-feedback.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:38
  • 21
    @Braiam: I had no idea! It seems weird to me that an anonymous user can upvote a post, but a low-reputation user can’t. I assume those anonymous votes don’t impact the contributor’s reputation? Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 1:01
  • 12
    As an aside, I wonder how many “Thank you” and “Me too” answers we could avoid by giving low-reputation users some mechanism for expressing their views without resorting to abuse of the answer feature. To me, that’s also the best argument for the “Thank you” feature—though I’d rather just give them the opportunity to vote, even if it doesn’t yet count toward reputation. Sometimes people just need a way to feel heard, or to draw attention to a post or answer. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 1:06
  • 2
    @JeremyCaney too little. In a month, there are about 500k votes from anonymous users, about 1.5m from registered users that have the up and down vote privilege. I doubt the amount of post/comments deleted because they are "thanks" amount to a sizeable proportion of that.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 1:44
  • @Braiam: Thank you. That helps put it into perspective. It’s easy for me to be myopic when I’m focused so narrowly on one small piece of contributions. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 1:58
  • 30
    Don't forget that the regex should also cover "thx".
    – Ryan Lundy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 11:08
  • 2
    @RyanLundy a comment needs 15 characters at least, so "thx for your answer" is totally fair game :(
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 14:05
  • 41
    @RyanLundy our personal favorite is 'tanks in advance'
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:34
  • 29
    @TylerH Think of it as a Blitzkrieg of gratitude.
    – Ryan Lundy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 17:37
  • Don't forget about the usual: TFYH
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 22:22
  • @10Rep To post a comment you need at least 15 characters.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 22:26
  • 2
    @Braiam Some people just spam exclamation marks.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 22:31
  • 5
    The regular expression would also have to cover variations and deliberate and non-deliberate misspellings, like thans and thnx. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 14:43
  • 3
    Your third bullet is so spot on and should be the main point. They totally should have added a thanks detection and make it so that the comment doesn't send if there's thanks written in it with a popup reminding to use up votes for thanking, and comments for whatever comments actually exist for. Commented Jun 29, 2020 at 22:52
273

We discovered that “thanks” appears in 1 of 6 comments left under answers. Although it’s less common on questions, the percentage of “thanks” comments have continued to slowly increase over the last few years

Now in addition to the "thanks" in the comments (I doubt they will disappear), we will also have the like and I guess people will slowly forget the upvote and accept feature.

Not sure if it's a good initiative. Sounds like we are slowly converting this community to a social website.

we're introducing this clutter-free way for users to just say "thanks" to others for taking the time to answer questions.

If I had to say "thanks" then I should logically upvote the answer. Many people simply take the time to provide a bad or wrong answer. Why do I have to thank them for taking the time to answer?


People might also find me impolite because I didn't say thanks to someone who provided an answer to my question or I myself can feel upset because the OP didn't say thanks to my effort. Well, a lot of emotion for a website focused on content and not people.

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  • 27
    Would be nice if the thanks button also adds a upvote.
    – BDL
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:41
  • 224
    @BDL would be nice if we simply consider the upvote as the thanks action. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 19:42
  • 17
    I am getting few thanks! but I got 2 with only 1 upvote, grrrr ... Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 23:00
  • 51
    @TemaniAfif Just had the same: 5 thanks and 2 upvotes. For a feature that is intended to remove frustrations, it's certainly very frustrating. Oh, wait. I forgot. The company doesn't really care about the frustrations of those who answer or moderate. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 5:41
  • 5
    Can we get another icon to indicate "this answer is not useful"?
    – Jongware
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 7:26
  • 11
    @10Rep you can make it a positive place by fixing a lot of issues we are raising each day not by adding extra stuff to make this place confusing. You are probably still new to this site but we want it to be a formal website focused on good quality content and there is no room for emotion and personnal stuff. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 19:25
  • 10
    @TemaniAfif This feature is so frustrating!! I got a comment saying "thanks", and he didn't bother upvoting + accepting until I told him to. And he didn't even click the thanks button, proving this feature is uselss.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 18:40
  • They already forget about it. I was helping out for only one single week(before this feature) to see what are the general issues in a specific area, the ppl dealing with. In this one single week I collected 500 points and I think 50-75% of the cases I got nothing, only accept or only one upvote. And sometimes I provided a very detailed answer or I answered additional questions too. I wasn't collecting points for years, and I can say this from experience that it's mostly a waste of time, because users doesn't respect your time you spend helping to them. This feature will make it even worse Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 11:33
  • Giving a thank you reaction without an upvote actually gives users who can't downvote a way to express their frustration with unhelpful answers in a relatively harmless way. It could also be used by higher rep users for frustrating but technically helpful answers. I don't think this use would do any more good to the site than the designed one, but should be considered.
    – user13149581
    Commented Jul 6, 2020 at 15:55
241

This definitely has the potential to send a lot of phatic noise to ground with less effort and frustration than the current "delete thousands of comments" approach. So, I'm glad it's being tried.

That said, there are a few things y'all need to be watching for:

  1. Reduction in voting

    This is the big one - voting is already far below where it should be, anything that further reduces it is a problem. This might show up as existing voters voting less, or folks who've newly earned the privilege not voting at all.

  2. No reduction in "thank you" comments

    Obviously if the feature doesn't have the intended effect, it's a problem; 'nuff said!

  3. More comments

    Any time you put a visible number somewhere, folks will fixate on it to a degree. Hopefully that doesn't happen here, but if it does... It could spill out into the comments. Be particularly alert for arguments or "PSAs" popping up - authors trying to address "thankers" or others complaining about them. There don't need to be a large volume of these for them to be a problem; as Jason has observed in the past, nasty comments tend to hang around for a long time, souring the mood for everyone.

  4. Incongruous usage

    This is relatively minor, but... If the number of "thanks" doesn't correspond to other measures of usefulness for a post then there's probably something fishy going on... And not necessarily something wrong with this feature, even! Be on the lookout for this, and ready to investigate - anomalies in usage can tell you an awful lot about the behaviors you're working with!

There are probably ways to mitigate #1 & #3 if they do show up, but the longer you wait the harder it'll become to alter folks' usage patterns - so be alert & ready to jump in.

A few other things to consider for the future, if what's being tried now works out (or can be made to work):

  1. It should be fairly trivial to detect when someone's posting a "thank you" comment (I had pretty good success with just a simple regex). Consider popping up a little warning pointing folks to the reaction button!

  2. There are currently a fair number of "thank you" answers being posted & deleted - this might help reduce that too, but if not then consider warning on those as well.

  3. Add it to questions, with "Good question", "Needs details" and "I have this question too" reactions - new users frequently lament that they're unable to provide feedback to askers (that their question is helpful or in need of clarification) or potential answerers (that an answer to a given question would be appreciated by folks other than just the asker).

Good luck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krjxyEme5vM

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  • 31
    you nailed it once again. IMO reduction in voting will be the main problem, new users don't know how to accept and upvote and don't even care, I've seen that on many many posts
    – Vickel
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:46
  • 36
    Yeah; it's already a problem. In theory, a feature like this could be used to correct that problem - imagine a little pop-up tooltip telling folks who've earned the voting privilege that they can now vote in response to them using a reaction, thus making reactions effectively "training wheels" for voting! But... If the mere existence of the feature hurts voting, that'll have to be addressed first.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:48
  • 2
    Since you had inside information and this was one of your babies: did you ever measured the effect of preventing +/-1 in comments? What were your findings?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:26
  • 3
    Sure did, @Braiam - results here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/283874/…
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:32
  • 40
    Upvoted for "voting is already far below where it should be". Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 23:38
  • 9
    I guess I should link Shog's own proposal on "reactions" in 2018, which I highly supported...
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 4:00
  • 3
    "training wheels" for voting -> sounds like a good idea to only let it be used from 1-X rep rather than forever in my opinion Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:23
  • 1
    I have the sense that "Add it to questions, with 'Good question', 'Needs details' and 'I have this question too' reactions" is the most interesting positive statement on this topic. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:51
  • 2
    Wouldn't "I have this question too" map to the existing "Watch this question" action? Maybe all we need is to provide friendly names to existing actions.
    – metacubed
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 19:23
  • 2
    I seriously doubt this will have the desired effect because it doesn't address why people leave thanks comments. It's not because they want to leave an anonymous token of good will — it's because they want a non-anonymous way of saying thanks that makes a personal connection. They want 'credit' (for lack of a better term) for the gratitude. So long as the thanks button is anonymous, it's just a less-potent up vote.
    – Mark
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 1:24
  • 5
    It isn't anonymous, @mark - not in the way votes are at least. Buuuut... It isn't a direct, attributed message in the way that comments are either. Most importantly: none of this is obvious from the UI. That will probably be an issue.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 1:36
  • 5
    Upvoted for allowing us all to learn about phatic noise
    – hongsy
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 11:07
  • 1
    Lotta forums have this two-step voting thing where you select a vote and then a reason... Personally, I find that infuriating, @nathan - but splitting it up, decoupling the "vote action" and "provide quick feedback" steps, that I dig.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 20:41
  • 3
    This button serves no purpose whatsoever and I'm not even sure what counts as a success criterion: Do we want it to be clicked a lot? Or not at all? I suspect it fundamentally does not matter at all.
    – Sklivvz
    Commented Jun 23, 2020 at 20:20
  • 1
    Hard to say, as there's no hard criteria here or on the blog @Sklivvz. It's an a/b test between two appearances of the same function, so the stuff I outline here can't be tested directly - but they can be observed. I'd be looking hard at the first two: interference with voting is a fail, some interference with comments could be considered a success (but, would need further research).
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 23, 2020 at 20:32
236

We already have a "thank you" button. It looks like this:

upvote

Adding yet another button is only going to make things more confusing - and result in people "thanking" but not upvoting (or accepting) contributions - robbing people of their reputation points.

People already seem to find the concept of accepting and upvoting the answer that solves the question. Why are we making this more complicated?

10
  • 26
    I disagree that the upvote button is a thank you button. Upvoting means roughly "this answer is correct, high-quality, and relevant." "Thanks" means roughly "I appreciate the time you took out of your day to write this answer." The two concepts are correlated, but still independent. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 3:54
  • 81
    I see what you're saying @TheGuywithTheHat - but does the ability to thank users for content that isn't high quality or relevant something that brings value to this site?
    – Shadow
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 4:08
  • 2
    I think the distinction is important because I believe that it's the reason why there are so many "thanks" comments. People who are not used to the site want to say thanks, and don't see an upvote as a way to do that. I don't think that it's important for them to be separate actions, but I think it's important for there to be some way to convey both, regardless of how it's implemented. Before today, the only way to convey the second concept ("thanks") is to write a comment. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 4:17
  • 10
    I'll be very interested to see if the presence of such a subtle button does anything to offset the "thanks" comments. But even if it did - I feel like a "use the upvote button!" when such a message is detected could be more useful to teach people how the site works...
    – Shadow
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 4:41
  • 7
    Those who write incorrect answers also take their time out of their day. Do they deserve "thank you" as well? Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 10:56
  • @Sнаđошƒаӽ Yes! If someone genuinely tried to help me IRL, I would thank them for their efforts regardless of whether their attempt succeeded. Here on stack overflow, someone who makes a bona fide attempt at an answer deserves thanks in my opinion. We have upvotes to reward quality and correctness. Thanks can be a reward for effort. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 19:59
  • 2
    @TheGuy you can have your own opinion, but in my opinion misleading someone who is in need of help by providing wrong answers deserves no thanks, rather deserves punishment of some sort. Also such a "thanks" is no use for the site considering the purpose of the site, which is to have good quality answers to useful questions. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 23:45
  • @Sнаđошƒаӽ: I think The Guy with The Hat's point is that you can have well-meaning answers that might otherwise be correct, but miss the mark in some way, or really good, in-depth answers on a topic that end up falling out of date. (For example, some great answers to rules questions on RPG.SE were once correct, but were made wrong by errata.) I'm not saying the answer is to have a thanks emoji as post reactions, but as The Guy in The Hat points out, the meaning expressed of "this answer is correct, high-quality, and relevant" is not the same thing as "I appreciate the time/effort you spent".
    – V2Blast
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 2:12
  • (...All that said: I don't think the "thanks" emoji reaction is really the best solution to the issue, because I think a major reason why people leave "Thanks" comments is to personally express that sentiment to the answerer - and an emoji next to their post is expressing a fraction of that sentiment at best.)
    – V2Blast
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 2:15
  • You got me, I clicked that button. It just showed the image on a new page :(
    – Luc
    Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 11:02
217

I was searching for an answer that already got a "thanks" to see how exactly it looks in practice. First one I found:

enter image description here

So doesn't seem to work too well in preventing the comment.

15
  • 5
    you don't know who made the thanks, maybe it's not the OP Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 7:56
  • 78
    @TemaniAfif I actually do know (from the activity log) and in this case it was the OP.
    – luator
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 8:05
  • 68
    Oh, so it's not anonymous. It makes this even worse as a feature ... Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 8:11
  • 14
    @TemaniAfif I think it makes sense that it is not anonymous if it is meant to replace non-anonymous comments. What I see as a problem is that it seems to be anonymous at first glance while it actually is not.
    – luator
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 8:28
  • 2
    another example: stackoverflow.com/a/62424251/8620333 Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:25
  • 115
    So.. the thank you button was basically used instead of an accept?
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:14
  • @Scratte it was used in addtion to also saying thanks in the comment which defeat the purpose of having such useless button Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:39
  • 4
    @TemaniAfif Yes. I see that. But I also see a missing green check-mark. Of course, I do not know which post this is, so it may have another accepted answer.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:46
  • you can see the person who thanks in the timeline. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 11:25
  • 8
    @Scratte I did not notice that when posting but you're right... It is so far the only answer to that question. (sorry for not linking but I don't want to draw unnecessary meta attention to some random question).
    – luator
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 11:27
  • 2
    And I decided to answer a question in my break and now we have another example of this: stackoverflow.com/a/62447886/2209007
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:06
  • @Sumurai8 thanks for contributing to SO; have an upvote for your valuable effort.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:40
  • 1
    You're welcome. But tbh I don't really do it for the upvotes. It just showed to me that the solution that SO implemented is not an actual solution to the problem of a shared comment section between people being nice human beings to each other and comments adding to the answer itself, which is something this post outlines as well.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:49
  • 1
    Thank you for this post! In addition to making the polite human gesture of saying thanks I also made sure to upvote. Sometimes as programmers we tend to think anything should and could be improved. Much like the proverbial hammer user that sees everything as a nail (a.k.a Law of the Instrument, look it up it's relevant!), a programmer can end up seeing everything as a button.
    – Boaz
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 10:41
  • 5
    Clearly, this "feature" is an abject failure. Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 20:35
185

👎

Bad feature. Confusing. Will cause users to skip upvoting.

My suggestion - detect when users write "thanks" in comments and instruct on how to upvote.

Consider even making the upvote reputation requirement 0 (so all users could upvote)

11
  • 74
    all users could upvote isn't a great idea. We have enough work with sock puppets with 15 being the limit. Otherwise, you're right. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:03
  • 6
    sorry for the dumb question. what is sock puppets? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:05
  • 30
    not a dumb question: people who create alternate account(s) just to vote for their main account. Happens a lot... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet) Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:07
  • 2
    Because fake internet points mean something! (i've never quite understood the obsession with them/why people create fake accounts to upvote themselves)
    – Caius Jard
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:20
  • 19
    it also grants privileges, like comments, downvotes, deletion.... more powerful spammers. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:38
  • 21
    Or upvotes from those with under 15 rep could be like the upvotes of anonymous visitors (ie, they don't give rep to the recipient.) Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 2:04
  • 5
    I will thank you if you remove your final paragraph!
    – Jongware
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 7:29
  • @curiousdannii That'd still become "potential earnings" as (many) people tend to vote on high-score posts.
    – iBug
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:42
  • 4
    'Fake internet points' looks good on resume
    – 0xC0DED00D
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 9:02
  • @Caius Jard: Minimum-effort HR people use fake Internet points as a filter (so they don't have a review what is actually posted (at least before the filter is applied)). So naturally minimum-effort job applicants will try to game the system. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 14:23
  • 3
    @PeterMortenson hah, yeah I often wondered about that too.. "Would I hire Jon Skeet? - Nah; he probably spends way too much time on stackoveflow to actually do any work, right?" 😜
    – Caius Jard
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 18:45
158

It's a step in a wrong and scary direction. This would be the beginning of seeing the icons below on SO:

We've already seen terrifying examples on Teams and Jobs.

Stating the obvious:

  • Stack Overflow is not a social network site.1

  • Generally speaking, downvoting and upvoting do not indicate being mean or nice. Most importantly, they are ways to reflect the quality of posts.2



Let's assume an answer which is not a quality one nor is the correct answer to be qualified for upvotes or getting accepted. In the meantime, it's not an awful answer which you would downvote. If anything, you actually appreciate the effort.

So, that's when you use this new feature?!

No.

I think the right thing to do is leaving a comment to explain the issues that you see with that answer. Of course, you can thank the user. There's nothing wrong with saying 'thank you' in a comment (but not just saying "thank you").



1. David Arenburg's explanation on why SO differs from typical social networking platforms.

"... SO initially was focusing on the content (a high quality data base), rather on people (a social network). People on SO can't make connections, send private messages, say "thank you" and etc. The comments section wasn't meant for that neither. The chat rooms are the closest thing to a social network, but they were mostly intended (I think) for extended discussion and clarifications in order not to clutter the comments section - certainly not to what certain chatrooms became eventually. That new feature focuses on people rather on content."



2. Addressing some comments on this point of mine: Generally speaking, downvoting and upvoting do not indicate being mean or nice.

Comment:

"This is something obvious to you, and to most people who "succeed" (by some measure) on Stack Overflow. But I would suggest that it's not obvious to every newcomer that upvotes/downvotes are supposed to be impersonal evaluations of the question/answer's utility. Having social-network-style colorful cutsie reactions might emphasize the impersonality of voting."

My response:

I understand your point of view but to solve a problem, one should not create another. Problems with this "cutsie" reactions are laid out in most of the answers here. We can emphasize on these actions being impersonal evaluations in other, much less problematic, ways; again, refer to suggestions here.

In the meantime, your concern is mostly about downvotes and being nice, etc., while this feature is a try to reduce thanks comments which are different issues (there may be relations, but we should not deviate from the actual purpose of this feature). And I want to say that a colorful UI would be the end of SO. Even imagining finding answers in a website cluttered with all kind of noise is painful. I am not giving this much thought, but maybe SO can hide the actual number of downvotes for newcomers on their posts and cap it at -1, but notify them that there's an issue with the quality of their post causing negative feedback. Even giving them a grace period on reputation loss. We had an experiment like this before, but it was for all the users and not just newcomers. Again, this is something off the top of my head and not directly related to this post.

We all can (should) sit and discuss different ways to make our communities more welcoming. Although, I want to point out that majority of SE users are trying their best to be nice and welcoming but I understand that some standard actions may have a harsher impact on newcomers. We don't need to obliterate what we built to address any issue. Through discussion, we can find better methods to decrease number of "thank you" comments, improve newcomers experience, and any other issue.

Specifically about this feature, I believe that community has spoken and showed that they are not fond of this. Obviously, downvotes on the announcement are not targeting the SO employee or the company. We are simply expressing that this feature is problematic in our eyes.

21
  • 4
    "They are just ways to reflect the quality of posts." But they also give or take rep from the contributor. If that isn't an implied thank you or don't thank you, I don't know what is. Voting is also thanking. Of course SO is not such a social network as the others and having all these buttons to react to a contribution would be terrible. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 5:24
  • 56
    +1. Stack Overflow is not a social network site
    – Paolo
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:43
  • 11
    "Stack Overflow is not a social network site."- welp, once it was true. These days, the following is more accurate- "SO is whatever SO management wants it to be at the moment". In other words, there is no common truth about what is SO at any given moment. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:05
  • I'm curious about your definition of social network... Isn't SO one, and from the very beginning? (even though specialized for developers, pros and enthusiasts). (Not saying that SO should look like "well-known canonical examples of social networks"). It's a place where users exchange information / discuss, among other interactions.
    – Pac0
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:10
  • 3
    @Pac0 it means that SO initially was focusing on the content (a high quality data base), rather on people (a social network). People on SO can't make connections, send private messages, say "thank you" and etc. The comments section wasn't meant for that neither. The chat rooms are the closest thing to a social network, but they were mostly intended (I think) for extended discussion and clarifications in order not to clutter the comments section - certainly not to what certain chatrooms became eventually. That new feature focuses on people rather on content. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:17
  • 7
    The idea to imagine of Stack Overflow as social media platform is awful. I'm not a fan of social media, either. Adding such features would ruin the seriousness and credibility of this site. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 16:41
  • 1
    I'm not sure whether to upvote since I agree with you, or downvote since that potential future UI is scary. :-(
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 14:01
  • 3
    This is a slippery slope criticism. And it's fine to make this criticism, but I really don't see this change as going in this direction at all. While we should expect it to evolve, Stack Overflow isn't exactly slippery.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 20:31
  • 3
    Been there, done that. Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 5:21
  • 4
    @AaronHall: Most of us already see the current change as having gone down half the slope :-(
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 15:24
  • 4
    @AaronHall That's exactly what all comments and answers are trying to say. Rolling out such features unannounced has been going on for a long time now.
    – Boaz
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 11:11
  • 7
    @AaronHall Also, lisahpark.com/reactions ???
    – Boaz
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 15:13
  • 1
    @ZevSpitz In the meantime, your comment is mostly about downvotes and being nice, etc., while this feature is a try to reduce thanks comments (totally different issues). And I want to say that a colorful UI would be the end of SO. Even imagining finding answers in a website cluttered with all kind of noises is painful. I am not giving this much thought, but maybe don't show the OP (if they are newcomers) actual number of downvotes and cap it at -1 (we had an experiment like this before), but notify them that there's an issue with the quality of their post causing negative feedback. Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 22:02
  • 1
    @DavidArenburg I quoted your comment in the answer; I should've asked before doing so, but let me know if you are not okay with that. Commented Jun 24, 2020 at 16:59
  • 3
    Stack Overflow is my favorite kind of social networking site -- it's anti-social, just like me. These thank you buttons feel like social interactions are now desired, and I'm not a fan.
    – Davy M
    Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 6:25
127

I don't really care or feel strongly about this feature, but again, I (still) just want this question answered:

When will Stack Overflow the company actually start to discuss new features with the community before releasing them live on the main site out of the blue?

The company has been talking non-stop about how important community involvement is, from last autumn and beyond. Numerous posts have been made about this from October until today, by Sara Chipps, David Fullerton, Prashanth Chandrasekar and Teresa Dietrich.

And yet you keep dumping poorly considered features on top the community, out of the blue, over and over. Not even on a test server or meta, but live on the main flagship site Stack Overflow, with no prior discussion. The recent fiasco with showing random links to other random SE sites was also deployed just like this reaction feature.

Notably, these features weren't on Teresa's roadmap either. So who is actually in charge of development on the site? Random devs can develop & release new features at their own whims and initiatives?

12
  • 12
    I'd thank this post, but alas.. the feature isn't implemented on meta ;)
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 8:48
  • 3
    While I don't like this feature either, I also don't see any problem with testing it this way to see what effect it has. This sort of thing can't be tested on a test server, since there would be no users, and is testing on meta is pointless since most meta users know better than to leave thank you comments in the first place.
    – terdon
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:04
  • 3
    I don't really agree. SO is not owned by the community. It's not an open-source project, it's privately owned. It would be nice to see a roadmap of upcoming features and to be involved in discussing which ones are worthwhile, but this high-level stuff is for SE to decide ultimately. They can consult and still implement something that isn't popular too
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:12
  • 46
    @Mr.Boy Of course they can do whatever they like, but then kindly stop lying to my face about caring about community feedback.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:24
  • @Lundin caring about feedback doesn't mean they have to run everything past you for permission. You can give feedback on the features during the trials. If a feature isn't a lot of work then they migth as well trial it.
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:53
  • 16
    @Mr.Boy How exactly does analysis -> design -> implementation -> test -> user feedback -> discard make sense compared to analysis -> user feedback -> discard? Companies shouldn't care about time, money and disappointed customers? So if I run a travel company, I should silently send the plane travelling from NY->LA to Rome, Italy instead? Because it's a popular tourist destination so the customers ought to appreciate the silent change of destination. If they don't like it, we can always book them on another plane back. It's my company after all, I send the planes where I like.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:03
  • 1
    Depends how much work is involved. Sometimes implementing a feature is quicker than talking about it.
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:20
  • And whether they think it's worthwhile use of their money and resources is precisely the kind of thing that's not the community's concern.
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:21
  • 8
    @Mr.Boy Yep, sending all my passengers to Italy instead of LA was no effort at all, I just gave the pilot an order. Therefore it was a good call. The extra fuel cost is on me, none of their concern.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:24
  • There were experiments before, and you know which were met without instant rejection: the ones that say "hey there, we would be doing these changes tomorrow, cool?"
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 23:25
  • I like their approach personally, it's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission. I'm happy for them to try things out, as long as they react quick enough and take feedback into account (which they seem to do well so far). On the "thank" subject, I don't understand what would make me click "thank" instead of "upvote", a rather confusing and superfluous feature in my opinion.
    – sp00m
    Commented Jun 26, 2020 at 10:09
  • @sp00m The main issue here is upper management of the company saying one thing then doing another, over and over. Where is the community involvement? I can't find it anywhere.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 26, 2020 at 10:25
120

Just rename the actions:

  1. "Accept answer" to "Accept answer and thank"
  2. "Upvote answer" to "Upvote and thank"

Problem solved

9
  • 118
    also "Downvote but thank" Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:24
  • 117
    Can we rename the close flag to "thanks for trying"? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:51
  • 35
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre "Downvote and thank for nothing" Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:11
  • 45
    @MartinBraun If you're going that way then "Downvote and thanks but no, thanks"
    – T.S.
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:12
  • 5
    Even "Upvote and thanks, but no, thanks" could be useful, when you eventually realize you should work on X, instead of Y.
    – alain
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 2:10
  • 28
    Ultimately, just remove the vote buttons and have "thank you/"thanks but no" buttons instead. The first one gives you a certain amount of kudo's, the second one takes them away. With more "Thanks!" you can comment, edit, moderate ... Hey, wait a minute ...
    – Jongware
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 7:33
  • 12
    @usr2564301 "Thanks, I hate it"
    – Lino
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:03
  • 3
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre Also "Vote to delete and thanks". Plus "Upvote but no thank" and "Accept answer but no thank". Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:44
  • If they rename it this way, more people will be motivated to add a thank you comment, because someone is telling them to "thank". So -1.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 15:22
120

In your analysis will you please share the effect these thanks have on downvotes.

My gut feeling is that users that see a "thanks" on a post are less likely to cast a downvote and if that is true then we lose an important quality mechanism that is already much under pressure. An UX that further discourages the brave voters is a trend I do not fancy.

That can be a quantitative analysis based on some number crunching.

Can you also consider in your analysis the "new" comments that will pop-up (who downvoted my thanked post, who thanked without upvoting) as well as Meta Posts where the most die hard fans of old-style Stack Overflow have to discuss with / support users that are faced with this new feature.

That can be part of a qualitative analysis of the effects of the new feature.

If you can include and combine this with the approach, data-points and analysis you've already planned I'm sure we can both reach a fair conclusion about this new feature at the end of the test period.

15
  • 52
    WUT? 4 upvotes, no thanks?
    – rene
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:05
  • 14
    They could solve the problem of "why this and not that" by making reactions exclusively available to only <15 rep and anons. But one thing you're on point, this needs more investigation (it's pretty half-baked atm).
    – cs95
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:11
  • 2
    @cs95 That would render it completely useless, since at that reputation level, you can cast upvotes. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:16
  • 20
    I wish I could thank that answer more than once. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:16
  • 7
    We need a "a brave voter" badge.
    – zx8754
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:42
  • 12
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre Something to relieve the otherwise uneventful lives of our Moderators: You can now go out looking for Thanking Rings. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:45
  • 5
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre out of curiosity: are moderators notified internally before a feature is implemented/released? or they are surprised like us? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:30
  • 43
    we got notified an hour before that post came up, and we definitively weren't consulted. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:37
  • 33
    I was surprised way more than you, @TemaniAfif. No, we were not consulted in any way.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 21:58
  • @Spevacus Thank you for those lovely thanks.
    – philipxy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 7:31
  • 4
    The analysis is wrong regarding another point: It's not the percentage of "thanks" or "Thank you" comments, it's the percentage of comments with "thank" in it which were counted for the statistic. That's a big big difference and is not appropriate. Comments with "thank" in it can indeed have a sense. Only the comments which have the purpose to say "Thank you" should be counted. I explained that in my answer as Critical Addendum as well. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 8:36
  • 2
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre We were given advanced notice on this new feature 6 months ago, see meta.stackexchange.com/q/339283/334566
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 11:21
  • 3
    And it was rightfully ignored so far. But fair enough. Personally I'd prefer more useful features like ... more winter hats. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:19
  • 1
    I oppose the "thanks" feature, but if a person is discouraged from down-voting upon noticing many "thanks", then - that person is rethinking their position. That's not a bad thing in itself. So -1 on this answer.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 13:59
  • Thanks rene. I kinda want to downvote this to emphasize on the importance of downvotes :) Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 16:12
118

Enter image description here

Neither of these really seems a very good 'applause' icon. The left looks more like a "wash your hands" reminder. The right is clearly praying to me.

I rarely thank people by applauding them, come to think of it. If you must, then 'thumbs up' is the conventional 'like' icon on forums and Facebook and pretty much everywhere.

25
  • 29
    Yes I thought its the prayer emoji 🙏 Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:02
  • 6
    Honestly, the left one looks to me like doing the hand signal for "timeout" (forming a "T" by placing the hands perpendicular to each other)
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:03
  • 35
    I've seriously thought the left icon would symbolize "wash your hands" due to the Corona pandemic. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:03
  • 6
    When I saw the right icon in it's tiny grayed out form the first time, it looked to me like the middle finger signal. I couldn't work out why Stack would put such a thing there.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:48
  • 7
    @PeterHaddad Yes, the right icon is the praying emoji. It does look like an high-5. Which may be why it was used in this experiment. I can foresee the religion-focused websites having troubles with it. Not that they will be angry. But would be pretty weird to have a praying emoji on a question. Would it mean that you're going to pray for the answerer? For the questioner? For both? Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:48
  • 1
    Clapping hands: 👏
    – GoodDeeds
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:41
  • 9
    Alternatives: ❤️ 💋 ✨ 🌻 🤗 🧁 🦸‍♂️ 🎅. Last one is my favorite.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:09
  • Never knew you could put emoticons in comments. That seems a bad feature too!
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:10
  • 7
    @Scratte Merry Christmas everyone. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:10
  • @Mr.Boy I saw it once again before by new users in "Thank you" comments. IMHO it's inappropriate. But that would be a whole entire thing on its own to discuss. I guess they implemented it for chat rooms. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:13
  • @Mr.Boy I don't use them on main at all. I agree. I think it's too flashy. And since I don't support this new feature, my comment here is really just meant as a joke. Though, I'd still vote for Father Christmas ;) However, the new feature seems to be an attempt for users to send a warm fuzzy feeling, perhaps the red heart. I'm divided.. :/
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:21
  • That robot is so childish, I almost will it's condescending :/
    – Vega
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 14:55
  • Yes, I like that so much thought went into this feature, they didn't even bother to find out the names of the chosen emoji. This is next-level hooliganism! ;) Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 20:40
  • 6
    I mean I'm a fan of praying but even so I don't know it's appropriate here :)
    – Mr. Boy
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 22:41
  • 12
    My first thought when seeing these icons was "This code is so bad that I'm washing my hands of it" and "This code hasn't been tested, so pray it works". Come to think of it, those might actually be useful buttons to have ...
    – bta
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 19:42
102

I do not consider this feature as useful. In fact, the opposite is the case: I think it is harmful for the whole community.

It will automatically lead to that users will use the upvote feature less than before (the thing you wanted to improve). If you can express your agreement with a hand sign already, why would you upvote then?

You can deny it or not - one main reason why people answer questions is to gain reputation, since it is still treated as kind of currency around the sites (e.g. you need to have X reputation points to gain Y privilege, etc.).

And if you haven't got the possibility to get something a least little back, then why would you consider to make an answer?

I see this problematic for me as answerer as equal as questioner.

Of course, helping an OP is the main goal. But it is just a good appeal to write an answer, if you can get more from it.

I'm just honest. Don't beat me for that.

Sometimes I sit on an answer for about 2 to 3 hours including research, etc. (yes, it's true). And the only thing I get is a useless hand sign?

This probably will have an indirectly influence on that fewer answers will be posted and the OP will probably miss important information, either explicitly or implicitly related, which is bad.


If you think an answer is useful and you like it, then just upvote it. We don't need symbols to express "You did it well, honey" and "Thank you for your effort". We aren't kids at the playground.

For the reason of that new user don't be able to vote, I clearly say:

15 reputation points is low enough to be able to use upvotes and has its sense that no bot or sock puppet accounts can cast upvotes. No need for frivolous symbols.


Critical Addendum regarding your stats:

Your statistic is saying

"Percent of comments on Stack Overflow with "thank" in them."

Well, I usually do that, too. But I do always express further question(s) or critic(s) in these comments as well.

It is not appropriate to count all comments with "thank" or "thanks" or "Thank you" in them. You need to only count the comments which are useless and have the only purpose to say "Thank you", not the ones who serve a real purpose and make sense.

So, IMHO the statistic is tainted and can't be used to reason this feature.


It even does not work in practice:

To showcase that the feature does not work as expected in practice, I've created another separate answer. I want to clearly separate both concerns from each other.

10
  • "Critical Addendum regarding your stats" I posted an answer asking for the length of the comments that contain thanks and how many of these are deleted.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:04
  • 1
    @Braiam AFAIU the max. length doesn't matter. They counted all comments which contain literally just "thank" and of course are equal or beyond the minimum character limit for a comment. Good concerns in your answer BTW. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:08
  • 3
    Cool - 5 more comments with Thank(s) in them that have nothing to do with or could be replaced by clicking a clapping hand Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:20
  • @PatrickArtner This seems to be the plain and sad true, indeed. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:25
  • @RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio We are talking about the minimum length. "Thanks but <lengthy explanation on why it doesn't work>" is more useful than "thanks, it worked"
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 16:05
  • @Braiam I meant the same thing. That is what I meant also in the answer. Maybe my wording in the previous comment was ambiguous or incorrect. I apologize. But that does not change what I meant. As far as I did understand it with "Percent of comments on Stack Overflow with "thank" in them.", the length doesn't matter at all. Each and every comment containing "thank" is considered in the statistic, which is wrong. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 17:21
  • I guess includes "thank" and excludes "but" (maybe also excludes "though") would be much more accurate.
    – Stephan
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 19:22
  • 1
    @Stephan Every comment including "Why", "But", "How", "Where", "When", "What", "Though", "Although", "Despite", "In which way" as well as of course the "?" sign by default and comments above a certain threshold of characters should be excluded. Maybe 50. Such algorithm shouldn't be too hard to develop. Thus, I don't understand why they used it that way. Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 14:10
  • And here is the evidence supporting it all stackoverflow.com/a/62479801/1704458
    – T.S.
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 17:05
  • 2
    this is good answer. Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 18:29
101

You're focusing on the wrong group.

100% of people who can leave thank you comments, provided they're not OP of the question or the answer it's posted on, can also vote. The comment privilege is unlocked at 50 rep. Upvoting is unlocked at 15.

In the comments on a different post, Catija pointed out something we already knew, and have known for a long time; lots of people don't vote, even if the post helps. Do you maybe now see where the problem is?

People aren't properly educated on how to use the site. That's why we're getting tons of NAAs and off-topic questions - the systems aren't good enough to properly educate the good-faith posters, the people who look at posts and then don't vote, even if it helps. Adding a thanks feature only risks distracting from votes. To quote the tour:

Good answers are voted up and rise to the top.
The best answers show up first so that they are always easy to find.

What about posts with 3000 thanks, but has 2 upvotes and has been locked there for a few years? Is that good or bad?

By further distracting from the already semi-forgotten-about voting system, people risk getting less and less rep. Personally, I don't care. I have well over 20000 rep, and got all the privileges of any importance that can be gained through rep.

And before I end this section, as I said, most people who write "thank you" comments also have access to voting. Why do you think they write "thanks" comments instead of upvoting?

I actually have no idea, but that's an idea of something to look into, instead of focusing on a parallel voting feature that likely will end up being ignored and result in no fewer "thank you" comments.

You're screwing new users instead.

Everyone on this site had 1 or 101 rep (association bonus) at some point. How are you going to explain to new users that they're not getting rep because people are thanking too much instead of voting? And how are you going to deal with the site systems when users are struggling even more to get rep?

I'm concerned about new users who want to make contributions to the site. I'm concerned about the users who have just unlocked their first queues and would like to do more. This change risks turning away future moderators because they can't get enough rep. This has several horrible effects thanks to previous issues thanks to your (= Stack Overflow, to be clear, not the announcer. I try not shooting the messengers) actions.

We're already losing core users to Codidact, Topanswers, other sites, other services, or just outright leaving without a "replacement". If you push away future mods now by denying them rep needed for privileges, the only thing you'll get is Spam Overflow. 20000 thanks means absolutely nothing if you're still stuck at 553 rep, but want to contribute towards moderation of the site.

Admittedly, it was already bad, and it's hard getting upvotes. Some tags have different voting cultures as well, but adding a rep-less "thanks" feature isn't going to help. Stop wasting your time and focus on what really matters. The problem isn't that users can't upvote, it's that they're not getting the proper introduction to the site. 15 rep is relatively easy to get, and it's even possible to get without posting (through suggested edits).

On one hand, you claim the reason for this is comments, but also that it's to help new users interact with the site. The problem is that you can also get users who now focus on that button instead of upvoting. People already don't know about the accept feature in spite of it being outlined in the tour.

We also get posts here on meta on a somewhat regular basis complaining about downvotes, and how downvote feedback should be mandatory. Some of these also directly state they feel insulted by the downvotes. We've been over that topic so many times, and stated that downvotes aren't personal. People don't get the message. Adding another feature means another thing to keep in mind, and another thing to teach users about. If you can't get people to understand and properly use the existing features, that is NOT a sign you should add another parallel feature - that's a sign you need to add more documentation, and get people to understand the site.

I still agree some things need to change in the voting area, but this is not it. Instead of helping with the vote issue, you're solving a different problem that can easily be solved by motivated users, and making the vote issue worse. If you want to solve the "thanks" comment problem, focus on the comments, NOT how to best distract users by giving them alternatives.

The alternative to posting a "thanks" comment is upvoting. If you also introduce thanking, which is a meaningless gesture the way it's implemented, there's now two alternatives to "thanks" comments. If you don't document them, most users won't use it anyway, and keep posting "thanks" comments.

This feature is available to all registered users, regardless of reputation (unlike voting, which is only available for users with 15 reputation or more).

Voting has always been available to everyone. Only those with 15 or more rep change the score and award rep. Upvotes and downvotes without enough rep is still stored, and the resulting score is shown to 10k users. From a rep point of view, both these features are equally useless. They don't give rep, they don't notify the poster, and the gesture is equally empty. A general sense of satisfaction doesn't grant moderation privileges.

Your statistics are wrong

We discovered that “thanks” appears in 1 of 6 comments left under answers

Thank you for pointing that out. See what I did there?

People use "thanks" in different forms for all kinds of things. Here's one random example I just made up:

Thanks, but this doesn't address the issue. <400 more characters explaining why>

That isn't a "thank you" comment even if it contains "thanks". Some people also use "thanks" as a salutation, and some times, people talk meta about "thanks" in comments on main.

In summary,

This feature will most likely result in:

  • Less voting (thanking doesn't count as a vote)
  • Less rep growth
  • Fewer users who can get the rep to become a core user
    • Couple arbitary time units down: more spam, less moderation on the site. All hail Spam Overflow
  • Wasted time on a feature that has no impact on the biggest problems the site faces
  • No decrease in "thanks" comments
  • Increase in duplicates to this question on meta
  • Increased confusion

... instead of educating users on how the site works, increasing voting, and reducing the moderator workload.

Bhargav has done a fantastic job on dealing with NAAs, but how much time do you think goes into that? I have a SEDE query that tracked down regex-matches "thank you" comments with a very high precision. Those don't hit the moderator workload - the hundreds of NAA answers posted on the site daily, however, do.

I also flagged a lot of NAAs until I decided to stop in protest of SE's actions. One of the things I often saw was "I'm new, I didn't know I couldn't post a question as an answer" (intent-wise - not a direct quote because there were a lot of comments like that). Here's a selection of 100 comments containing "new to stackoverflow" (slowpoke DB; getting more rows causes slow results or a timeout).

I have no idea what scale comments asking about site features are on, but there are a lot. That is a problem - not being able to thank people without 15 rep isn't in comparison.

Around the time the ask question wizard was made, someone somewhere suggested an answering wizard, with the intent of cutting down NAAs and improving answer quality. That was ignored and never implemented. The answering experience, compared to the asking experience, is horrible.

While I'm trying to stress how important educating new users is, let's go back to voting; people seeing downvotes as unwelcoming can lead to them viewing the entire site as unwelcoming. If you properly teach people that downvotes aren't personal, and that they don't mean "this post is bad, and you should feel bad about yourself", you reduce some of it.

To draw a bit of a parallel, the first time you join a site or look at something, it can be terrifying. It's like a complicated game - the first time you look at it and get started, nothing makes sense or has any form of logic. When you get used to it, and learn how it works (for instance through a tutorial), it doesn't seem as horrible. Stack Overflow is the game. The tutorial is the thing you neglected to implement properly. The end result is what you're not getting.

Stack has problems, and they need to be fixed. This "feature" doesn't help.

24
  • 2
    "Why do you think they write "thanks" comments instead of upvoting?" - There's two things here... yes, to this but... also is it actually instead of... What percentage do both? As to why, the general understanding I have is that people like having a way to actually thank a person who helps them. They like being able to be recognized as having shown appreciation - this can be cultural or personal... but it definitely exists. I'm predisposed to saying "I'm sorry", others are predisposed to saying "thanks"... and it means something to be appreciated.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 6:58
  • 4
    That said, what means the most to me when receiving thanks is when someone is specific about what I did that helped them. So, based on that alone, a general "thanks" reaction would be unlikely to be as impactful as someone taking the time to write a comment saying "Thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful answer - and for taking the time to post it so that everyone can appreciate it".
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:05
  • 6
    I absolutely agree that doing a better job at teaching users about privileges, particularly voting, is something we need to do, and soon. We've started more training based on privilege unlocks - currently it's rolled out as we release updates to existing tools or release new ones - for example, the new info boxes for close reviewing and the one for the follow tool. As you say, I'm very concerned that voting is so low as it is and it leaves so many people feeling unrewarded for their efforts.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:08
  • 5
    I would like to push back a bit on the downvotes thing. I know that downvotes aren't personal - I was a user for years before being hired and I've gotten my fair share of downvotes before and since... mostly since... but, as much as we repeat this mantra and tell people "it's not personal"... it will never actually be not personal to people. I have nearly 1000 downvotes on a single post and the only thing that keeps me from not dwelling on every single one is because I don't get notifications for every single one... I only see that it's been downvoted yet again when my rep change is +8.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:12
  • 4
    I know it's easy to say "it's not personal" but that doesn't make it not hurt. If you spend time making something and later find it wrapped around a piece of gum and thrown it in the trash, it hurts! Even if you don't know who threw it away or why. Even if you're five and it was a really ugly piece of spaghetti art. Every question (ok, most) represents someone who is stuck with a problem. Even if they don't take the downvote personally as a downvote... they do take their post being downvoted or closed personally because it's preventing them from getting a solution to their problem.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:16
  • 2
    All that is to say... I don't see that we could ever "train" new users to not take downvotes personally. We can help them get more specific guidance on how to write great questions or answers in a number of ways to prevent those downvotes from ever happening... we could do more with mentoring or a sandbox phase where people can workshop their posts... but I don't think that teaching people to not be hurt is something we should be leaning on - ever. It's not a "winning" solution.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:19
  • 15
    @Catija I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here. We're not suppose to train people to not feel hurt about the fact that their work wasn't good. We're suppose to train them in how to use the site and that a downvote means that they need to work on how to make better contributions. If no one tells them how to or what's expected of them, they just keep failing and that's not very motivating. They need: Better guidance and less confusion. They need a Stack Overflow tutorial!
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:26
  • 2
    @Scratte I agree that a better tutorial ("better" because the tour is... at least in the most minor away a tutorial) would be amazing. I still don't think that we will ever get the majority of people comfortable with getting downvotes and that the better goal is helping them better avoid getting downvotes by doing a better job with creating better posts from the outset. (And before anyone accuses me of planning to get rid of downvotes - I have zero interest in that in 99% of cases)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:31
  • 12
    @Catija The tour is not a tutorial. It's a brief introduction. There are also no warnings about all the ways that things can go wrong if one does't pay attention. Example: I have to actually explain to users that they only have one chance for the edit-into-the-reopen queue in comments directed at one user at a time! It doesn't scale, and for all those that do not get one-to-one hands-on advice, it's a less than optimal experience for a user to have to go through the help center to find out just what they need to do. Do they need to read all the pages? Can they focus on just 3? Which 3?
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:38
  • 5
    "We're not suppose to train people to not feel hurt about the fact that their work wasn't good" - I don't think we should either. It sucks when it's not good enough, but the point is to take it as feedback on the post, and not as an insult. " have nearly 1000 downvotes on a single post and the only thing that keeps me from not dwelling on every single one is because I don't get notifications for every single one.." - but does every downvote have the same effect as an outright toxic comment? Some people associate those two, and that's what I keep trying to push back against. Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:49
  • Is it possible to detect text selection? If it is you could suggest people who do select text or click links in an answer to upvote it. The time spent on reading an answer could also be used to make that suggestion. There are many ways to "teach" new users how you want them to behave. Voting is not very warm and welcoming I guess that's why people prefer to "talk" and say thank you. That makes total sense to me.
    – cglacet
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 10:58
  • @cglacet It is, but if it ends up being too intrusive, all that will happen is that someone will make a userscript or a uBlock rule that nukes the popup. Banner blindness is also a major issue. They should be running research on the best way to resolve that, preferably by educating instead of nagging (ref. banner blindness), but we instead get a useless "thanks" feature with no impact. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 11:06
  • @Catija Maybe the new feature should be enabled only for users who don't have permission to vote?
    – ChrisW
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 11:08
  • I don't feel it would be too intrusive because it would only show a few times (maybe 2-3) so the new user is aware of the "rule". It's like a dynamic tutorial.
    – cglacet
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 11:10
  • @cglacet we also technically have this already. There's a banner on the top of the page that shows up for low-rep users from time to time saying (roughly; from memory): "Welcome back! Don't forget to upvote helpful posts". Its impact is apparently minimal. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 11:12
87

I don't like this feature. We don't need it. 🗑️

Stack Overflow is already complex enough, with users frequently confused already. 🚽

Could you implement something more helpful, like fixing Triage? 🤮

2
  • 19
    It's not only that we don't need it. It turns out to be harmful. It will automatically reduce the amount of upvotes and with that the appeal to write answers. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:55
  • 1
    Unless a "Thanks" also gave a small reputation reward (say +1). That way, Mr Skeet would (most likely) already have an extra 100K or so. Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 20:16
81

I have got an upvote, an accept, a "thank you" reaction and a "thank you" comment, all from the same user. Seems the users like to use all the available methods to thank me and this feature just adds more clutter.

But that was already pointed out in the other answers. I would also like to point out that all the additional buttons on the left, are making a noticeable gap between the post and the comments, if the post is short.

10
  • 27
    This is exactly what I was thinking would happen. It won't lessen the noise it will just generate more Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 21:32
  • 38
    That user seems very happy :) So it's only natural to use all available means. Perhaps you'd even get a hug, if that was an option.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 22:44
  • Your comment about the additional vertical whitespace is important, but it sort of gets lost in the rest of your post. Perhaps post it as an additional answer?
    – bta
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 19:57
  • 2
    @bta I edited the picture to point it out
    – gre_gor
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 5:40
  • 2
    @Scratte we must be thankful it isn't. Hugs transmit some quite nasty diseases that have recently found their way onto humans. Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 9:44
  • 11
    Oh wow. Since these users are so eager to thank in every possible way, we should consider adding a "donate" button that forwards to our Paypal or something :D Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 16:29
  • 1
    Next up: 1 rep = 1 dollar. We can make money of these "thank you" comments :).
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 18:29
  • 6
    Thanks for sharing the fact that a thankful user said "Thanks" to you and also gave you a Thanks reaction. Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 20:25
  • 3
    More gap = more scrolling. Hulk hate scrolling; make Hulk mad. Commented Jun 23, 2020 at 14:09
  • Other than the weird gap, I'm not entirely sure what the concrete harm being done here is.
    – naiveai
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 17:06
71

We have always had a way to say "Thanks": Upvoting.

This is expressly called out in the guidance for when to comment and when not to comment.

When shouldn't I comment?

Comments are not recommended for any of the following:

  • ...Compliments which do not add new information ("+1, great answer!"); instead, upvote it and pay it forward;...

This experiment has validated two glaring issues that must be addressed at the highest levels.

  1. FAQ pages are not just ignored, but their existence seems to be trivialized when convenient. You can put the prettiest prose there as much as you like for as long as you like, but if no one reads it, it doesn't matter. Worse, this experiment validates their frivolity; it basically affirms that, because people are saying thanks, that must mean that we should find a way to encourage it.

    The decision to conduct this experiment is a tacit acknowledgement that any FAQ page can be ignored or overridden at the drop of the hat, which...to be honest, sure, the company can do that anyway. I just think it's a bit of a jerk move not to have a discussion about something that is going to literally change established policy before changing established policy.

  2. The experiment ignores critical feedback from the community. You can do a search both here on Meta Stack Overflow and Meta Stack Exchange, and you will find a myriad of discussions or FAQ topics talking about how to encourage people to upvote content or pay it forward, rather than simply saying "Thanks".

    From my perspective, we've already talked about this, and we don't like those kinds of comments. We don't want to encourage more of this behavior. We want more people to pay it forward, instead. If the company is adamant about listening to its community, then this effort is an example of coming across as incredibly tone deaf.


I can appreciate that someone in the company may not like or agree with the tone that I've taken in this response. In light of that, I have chosen this tone anyway because of the example being shown before me. If you are serious about listening to the community, my belief is that the tone I've presented here will be one of strict condemnation rather than harassing.

70

I dislike this feature. It ironically just adds noise.

How to opt out of the experiment:

My ReduceClutter userscript already hides Reactions (in Teams) which also blocks this Thanks experiment, and I have just added in a new function to revert the new tooltips in the voting container to native browser ones.

Step 0 - Install a userscript manager browser extension:

Step 1 - Install/update userscript by clicking on this link:


Tested in Chrome, Windows 10, with Tampermonkey.

Report bugs for this userscript here

14
  • 3
    I'm going to add thanks here. I was waiting for a user script to hid this :) Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 8:04
  • 1
    But does it remove the darn-awful annoying stupid tooltips that hide the content of the page? Or just grabs the text and puts it into the title attribute? And which script does that? Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:35
  • @IsmaelMiguel what do you mean? Did you install my userscript and found an issue with it?
    – Samuel Liew Mod
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 12:12
  • Now imagine if there was a guinea pig-shaped icon to opt in instead.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:26
  • 1
    @SamuelLiew No, just seeking clarification on how it actually works. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 14:57
  • 3
    Yes, no more instant bubble popups
    – Samuel Liew Mod
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:28
  • So far I've had luck with not performing a hard refresh and so my old cache doesn't display them. I'll look into this script when that inevitable happens, though I suspect uBlock Origin element zapper or even Stylus would do as good a job.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 15:43
  • Thanks, I somehow knew you would be the one to build a userscript. @TylerH with uBlock Origin you just have to "pick" the element (using the eyedropper icon in the menu) and then create the filter. I can add an answer if anyone needs more detailed instructions (zapper seems to have a problem per question sometimes): I can add an answer if anyone needs more detail but its currently working for me to remove this Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 17:37
  • 4
    How to protest and screw over the experiment: don't install the ReduceClutter userscript, write comments containing "thank", and use the thank "feature" instead of voting. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 19:46
  • 9
    after adblocks, now thanksblock... Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 8:15
  • Can we make this a profile setting if this experiment "succeeds"?
    – Luuklag
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 10:30
  • Can you indicate what browsers it works in? Only Chrome? Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 17:12
  • @PeterMortensen works fine in Firefox Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 19:07
  • Moderator of a site who creates user scripts to block new features of the site - chancellor Palpatine says "Ironically" for this answer.
    – sanyassh
    Commented Jun 23, 2020 at 21:38
56

Other answers have mentioned that this feature could be harmful, and here is proof that they're right.

This answer has already been mentioned in luator's answer with focus on the fact that the OP used the new thank you button and added a "thank you" comment, but I would like to mention something even worse.

The OP seemed to have used the new thank you button instead of accepting the answer. It's so far the only answer and was obviously useful for the OP, and yet it's not accepted.

enter image description here

The OP may or may not also have used the new thank you button instead of upvoting, we will never know for sure since upvotes are anonymous.

In case you're wondering how I know it was the OP who used the new thanks button and not someone else, it's visible in the timeline:

enter image description here

Maybe they wouldn't have accepted the answer anyway, but the fact that they used the new thanks button and didn't accept the answer is not a good sign. I also saw the same thing happen again here so this isn't just about one question (in that question too the OP also added "thank you" comments, but they have been deleted since). That second question now has an accepted answer, but it got accepted only after I asked the OP to accept an answer.

6
  • 1
    well, it's at least a sign that the "new feature" dialog works.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 20:54
  • 3
    I think it is a problem in general. Many new users don't know that they can and also should accept an answer as soon their problem has been solved. SO is not teaching OP's enough about this. - I regularly need to hint OP's by myself to accept an answer if their issue has been solved by answers with clear and unambiguous reaction from OP, which is annoying. I see others do that do. It is not our job to do so. Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 7:55
  • 3
    I think I mentioned this in a comment on said post, but.. in defense of the user, they may just be holding off a few days to see if a better Answer comes along, as mentioned in the help center: "Accepting an answer is not mandatory; do not feel compelled to accept the first answer you receive. Wait until you receive an answer that answers your question well.". However, this quote is immediately preceded with no thank-you comments in bold, so..
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 8:16
  • 1
    I will also suggest to remove the "thanks button" for the OP since is useless for him. He just has to upvote the answer or mark it as best answer, thanks is useless in this case.
    – Dwhitz
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 12:37
  • 1
    @Dwhitz I definitely agree. But it's useless for users with the upvote privilege too. So we should remove it for them too. Which leaves us with users who have less than 15 reputation and anonymous users. And if we want them to be able to give public feedback as well, we might as well display their feedback from the upvote button publicly instead of creating a new button just for that. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 16:06
  • @DonaldDuck I completely agree, but since it's something that SO company want to keep for the future, that was my proposal. If it's possible, I would remove it too! It's just a noise around a question and the SO flow that is not so clear and trasparent for the new users. Adding layer of complexity instead of clarify and simplify the UI&UX it's a pity.
    – Dwhitz
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 19:41
54

I don't think it's a good idea. We already have voting, so yet another button is not needed. It just clutters the UI.

Also, if I received such a "thanks", (for which I had to look for since there are no notifications), it would really not mean much. A button press is way too cheap to mean anything.

On the other hand, a "thanks" comment with more than just that word is more personal, and something I both like giving and receiving sometimes. That's a real, personal, social interaction, a button will never be able to replace that.

8
  • 4
    Thanks for this very thoughful answer. It's very similar to what I thought. Comments that just say thanks can be deleted without further ado but comments that go on an provide useful feedback stand on their own and cannot be replaced by a single button. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 5:12
  • @Trilarion I don't think that replacing comments with feedback is a goal by any means. I would hope that doesn't stop - I certainly do that often. I won't post comments that are just "Thanks, this is great" but I often say thanks at the opening of a comment when asking for more information, particularly if the answer got me part way there.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 6:04
  • @Catija The two basic versions of comments with "thanks" in them have been identified here (+1 Thanks and Thanks, and how about .....). Where the stats given based on distinguishing the two, or lumping the two together?
    – Chindraba
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 6:31
  • 3
    @user7412956 That's a good question - from what I understand, it's a simple query that looked at all comments for the word "thank". I'm in the process of requesting a deeper dive to check against things like whether the person who wrote the post was the one saying thanks - as in thanking someone for making a suggestion to improve their post, someone writing a comment that would be single-flag deleted, and something that could take a guess - likely based on length - of what comments included suggestions to improve the post. Also checking if the comments are paired with votes or not. :)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 6:35
  • Them's gonna be some hefty SQL hi-jinks.
    – Chindraba
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 6:41
  • @Catija Would be better if a SEDE link was shared, but based on recent events, it seems that it was intentionally ommited. Also based on the fact that the post is locked and no comments are allowed. Feels like the start of converting StackOverflow's open community into a closed social network... Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:33
  • @IsmaelMiguel We'd be searching deleted comments, too, which wouldn't be in a query y'all could replicate.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 11:55
  • The goal is understandable, but I think it'll do very little to cut down on "thanks" comments for exactly the reason pointed out in the last paragraph of this answer.
    – V2Blast
    Commented Jun 22, 2020 at 2:22
54

Since this is a test:

  • What are the criteria to consider it successful? (remember, before setting up an experiment, you have to already had this established, otherwise the experiment is flawed)
  • What are the current numbers for the following:
    • Complaints from users whose comments are deleted
    • Comment flags handled by type
    • Comment flags raised by Andy's bot
    • Comment flags raised by Community (-1)

I would like if the test also considered the length of the comments, since it was part of one of the latest tests to address undesired content in comments.

4
  • 2
    Is there a control group? I see this feature and assume everyone else does too. I've heard this sort of thing can get you fired
    – C8H10N4O2
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 17:57
  • 1
    @C8H10N4O2 control group is probably the SO population before the change.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 20:10
  • 5
    that's not a control group
    – C8H10N4O2
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 20:32
  • 4
    @Braiam Great catch - it looks like there's no control group. The only variations in this test are different thank you icons. This means there'll be no way to tell whether the "thank you" feature improved things or not. I can't understand why a third variation wasn't included with no thank you icon. It seems like the SO team already made up their mind about it :( Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 18:55
53

Preface

This feature announcement is the most unpopular one since the removal of hot meta posts (ATTOW) with little less than 100 answers, which is a feat in itself. There is also a controversy regarding one of the answers here. On the one hand, those who believed in SE Inc. not caring about their input got another confirmation. On the other, SE Inc got their fears of bringing features on meta is like going to war0 reinvigorated.

I think we can all agree that the announcement is a disaster. None of this was necessary. What follows is yet another attempt to explain what went wrong, what could be developed, and what procedure could be adopted to build a constructive dialog with the community.

What went wrong? Research

One of the main reasons the announcement was met with a barrage of criticism is that many took issue with how the data used to justify the feature was acquired:

“thanks” appears in 1 of 6 comments left under answers

Literal interpretation of this statement suggests only the following criteria were used:

  • Comments should have a "thanks" string in them, and only in that form.
  • Measurements should be done in relative values as "percent of posts".
  • Only posts with comments should be considered.
  • Only comments left under answers should be considered.

A lot of us know SQL to at least some degree, and this seems to constitute an overly broad query that, as many others pointed out if used, will result in a lot of false positives. I would assume otherwise, but the abovementioned are the only criteria published.

Here is a small SEDE query for the last 5 years created using these assumptions (the result is pretty close to 1/6 on average). Maybe I missed something, but unless the query had a criterion of "percent of total answers" and not "percent of answers posted" the results do not look as bad as they are announced:

5-year "thank" comments graph

Of note is a spike in the number of such comments since June

What should have been done? Procedure

  1. Asking the community at large first. I do understand that getting a feature on meta can be very scary, but in this case, the reasoning does not apply, as testing the feature on SO was planned for some time (cache dates as far back as April 3rd) and asking the actual users affected was only the 5th (and the last) point on the bucket list.
  2. If not, starting by asking what existing proposals we can implement instead of introducing a new feature. I realize that the product team has to develop features by nature, but that does not mean that the feature has to be new. And adding something suggested by the community, even if in a different form than originally proposed, goes a long way in building trust and well-meaning relationship with said community.
  3. If not even that, at the very least roll out the feature to the target audience1 and gather usage data - if these groups show a tendency to change the behaviour, roll out the feature site-wide and include the testing results in the announcement. For example, a target group can include:
    • users with < 15 reputation points who literally cannot upvote
    • users with "low engagement" (i.e. under a certain amount of posts and low number of votes cast)
    • or users who post comments with "thank" in them under a certain character count threshold
  4. If not all that (which was likely the case here), after receiving so much negative backlash and even community moderators acknowledging that the way the feature was introduced was less than optimal, at least either:
    • put a disclaimer on the question stating that you understand the concerns and reassure people that the feature will be closely monitored (not the formal statement at the end of the post)
    • update the question from time to time with interim results of "monitoring usage and other data" - let users see that you care about the feature

      All in all, a backlash is a normal reaction to an unpopular decision which dies down after a while, and the goal here to let the community see that you actually think that the feature is useful and are ready to defend it (not by engaging in comments).

What could be implemented instead? Validation

As a lot of answers mention, even a client-side validation of the comment suggesting the user reconsidering posting the comment if it contains "thanks" and is relatively short would be a both easier to implement and more welcomed feature2:

const buildFailureNotice = (length, min) => {
  return <div class="failureNotice">Please do not use comments just to thank someone, vote the post up if you have the privilege and accept if you think this is the best answer. Add {min-length} more chars to go...</div>
};

const validateThanks = (component, callback) => (e) => {
  const boundCallback = callback.bind(component);
  
  const min = component.minLengthForThanksValidate;

  const { target } = e;
  const { value } = target;
  const { length } = value;
  
  const thanksRegex = /\b(thanks?|appreciated?)\b(?!.*?\b(?:but|though)\b)/i;
    
  boundCallback( length < min && !thanksRegex.test(value) || length >= min, length );
};

class InputWithThanksValidation extends React.Component {

  constructor(props) {
    super(props);
    this.state = {isThanksValid: true};
    this.minLengthForThanksValidate = 40;
  }

  changeValidationState(status, charLength) {
    this.setState(state => ({
      isThanksValid: status,
      currentLength: charLength
    }));
  }

  render() {
    const { minLengthForThanksValidate : min } = this;
  
    const { isThanksValid, currentLength } = this.state;
    
    const validationFailureNotice = !isThanksValid ? buildFailureNotice(currentLength, min) : "";

    return ( 
      <div class="thanksValidated"> 
        <textarea onInput={validateThanks(this,this.changeValidationState)} id = "comment" placeholder = "Use comments to ask for clarification or add more information. Avoid comments like “+1” or “thanks”."></textarea>
        {validationFailureNotice}
      </div>
    );

  }

}

ReactDOM.render( < InputWithThanksValidation / > ,
  document.getElementById('root')
);

const simulateTyping = (setValOverride, element, input) => {
  const ev = new Event("input", { bubbles: true });
 
  input.split("").forEach((char,c) => {
    setTimeout(() => {
      const { value } = element; 
      setValOverride.call(element, value + char);
      element.dispatchEvent(ev);
      
      if(c === input.length - 1) {
        setTimeout(()=> setValOverride.call(element, "") ,4e2);
      }
      
    }, 1e2 * c);
  });
};

(() => {
    const tested = document.getElementById("comment");
    
    const inputs = [
      "thank you for your answer.",
      "Thank you, but it did not work",
      "@User, thanks! Though, this does not answer my question",
      "The answer is obsolete, please update it. Thanks!",
      "THANK YOU SO MUCH, I AM SHIFT STUCK!",
      "Is it faster than @User's solution?",
      "I appreciate you taking the time! That said, you have a typo"
    ];
    
    const setVal = Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(
      window.HTMLTextAreaElement.prototype, "value"
    ).set;
    
    let accumulatedOffset = 0;
    
    inputs.forEach((input,i) => {
      setTimeout( () => simulateTyping(setVal, tested, input) , accumulatedOffset );
      accumulatedOffset += (1e2 * input.length + 1e3);
    });
})();
body {
    --white:#fff;
    --black:#0c0d0e;
    --orange:#f48024;
    --black-200:#bbc0c4;
    --black-300:#9fa6ad;
    --black-350:#9199a1;
    --orange-300:#f7aa6d;
    --blue-300:#6cbbf7;
    --fc-dark:#0c0d0e;
    --focus-ring:rgba(0,149,255,0.15);
}

input {
  width: 5vw;
  height: 1vh;
}

thanksValidated {
  width: 80%;  
}

textarea, .failureNotice {
  width : 50%;
}

textarea {
  margin-bottom: 4px;
  height: 5em;
  resize: vertical;
  overflow: auto;
  -webkit-appearance: none;
  margin: 0;
  padding: .6em .7em;
  border: 1px solid var(--black-200);
  border-radius: 3px;
  background-color: var(--white);
  color: var(--fc-dark);
  font-size: 13px;
  font-family: inherit;
  line-height: 1.15384615;
}

textarea:focus {
    border-color: var(--blue-300);
    box-shadow: 0 0 0 4px var(--focus-ring);
    outline: 0;
}

.failureNotice {
  border : 1px solid;
  border-color: var(--orange-300);
  color: var(--black-350);
  font-size: 75%;
  margin: 5px 0;
  padding: 10px 10px;
}
<script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/react/16.6.3/umd/react.production.min.js"></script>
<script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/react-dom/16.6.3/umd/react-dom.production.min.js"></script>

<div id="root"></div>


Aftermath: was it worth it?

The feature was introduced on June 17th and turned off on July 17th. If its goal was to reduce number of comments with "thank" in them, it failed spectacularly as shown by the graph below:

thank comments since feature introduction


0 It is not accidental that responses from CMs tend to contain terms "shield", "panic attacks", "hostile", etc - they are all related to dealing with an enemy force, not engaging in civil conversation.

1 From my standpoint, 1 on 1 interviews are not enough when considering a feature that will affect a product that has millions of users. The key here is not enough: after all, I am not going to argue against sociology here. But the fact that 2 of 5 research points consisted of 1 on 1 interviews and none addressed the community is concerning at best.

2 Given the obvious nature of the suggestion, I would assume it was pitched and discussed during the "Ideation" step of the research and deemed unworthy. In that case, it would also help to provide some reasoning behind why a button was chosen - it may have alleviated some tension as well.

15
  • 16
    "Asking the community at large first" - this has fallen on deaf ears for years now. No matter how many people say it however many times, they simply don't care. They do listen to the community occasionally. But it's far & few in between (and usually after a shitstorm happens). When the reaction is overwhelmingly negative, "shield", "panic attacks", "hostile", etc are used to vilify the community when they endorse the management decisions & site "features".
    – P.P
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 14:10
  • 2
    @P.P - well, I can't disagree with you as that it seems that way. Although, SE Inc is in a very peculiar position - most companies do not have to deal with the pressure of a strong and vocal community and I think that the procedure of 1. Discuss with the team -> 2. Develop a prototype -> 3. Test on a control group -> 4. Roll out publicly -> 5. Announce seemed like second nature. But that's true when you deal with a community of customers, not contributors where the opposite is the better strategy. And this is where things got awry. From what I can gather, responses from SE tend to show...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 15:53
  • 1
    ...(as far as one can attribute intent to another person) a genuine lack of understanding that decision making in community-centric democratic environments ( and SO does exibit most relevant traits of such an environment for me: elections, self-moderation, voluntary engagement, reliance on consensus rather than decisions, etc ) should be inwards, not outwards. Sadly, the situation is not improving, that's true. What I think we can do here is use every opportunity we have not to make SE reckon with the community but to understand the need for it. My belief is that we are locked in...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 16:06
  • 1
    a feedback loop of SE Inc by nature not realizing that things work differently for open communities, that one has to expect a backlash for an unpopular decision, etc. and the community assuming the worst (and why wouldn't it - after all, the worst thing one can do to a active contributors is to "ask them last") about the company. The way this feature was introduced did not help at all to change that perception.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 16:19
  • 2
    A correction to my previous comment: I meant to say "[..] when they don't endorse the management decisions [..]"
    – P.P
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 17:25
  • 1
    I don't deny that it's a tricky situation balancing the Inc's business goals with the community's desires. My opinion is that making money & engaging with community about features/site changes isn't mutually exclusive. It's often imposing new features under the guise of "this is what community wants!" without even talking to the community first that annoys most.
    – P.P
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 17:41
  • 1
    @P.P - and I agree that they are not. I also do understand the collective frustration and tiredness of such conduct (the first time I saw the announcement, the only thing on my mind was - "really?"). But I came to think that this was albeit ill-guided but an attempt to do good. Something in the post looked familiar - and I am glad that the original announcement did not get lost - it convinced me that this was not an attempt to impose a feature, but a genuine attempt at solving a problem fundamentally flawed by trying to develop a feature instead of looking through existing proposals and...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 18:25
  • 1
    ...solutions. I am cautiously optimistic about the way the feature was presented, though - this time it is in test mode and it is admitted that the conduct should've been drastically different - that's definitely a start. That said, the feature was already live on Teams as far as November and the plans to roll out the feature on SO were in place as far back as April (likely earlier), so that's why I added points from 2 to 5 of what could be done if asking community first was not an option...
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 25, 2020 at 21:18
  • 1
    Now this feature announcement is the most unpopular one ever, even more unpopular than the one about hot meta posts. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 1:20
  • 1
    Your code has a bug, it considers "than" as a synonym to "thanks". For example it won't let me post the comment "More than what?". Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 1:21
  • 1
    Also another bug in your code is that your regex is case sensitive. For example it will allow all-caps comments like "THANK YOU!!!" without any problem. It would be better to make it case-insensitive by adding i at the end, like /your-regex-here/i. Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 1:24
  • @DonaldDuck - Re:unpopular - yeah, it broke several records - never seen an announcement with more than 1000 downvotes and 99 answers before. Re:bug - well, I did not think too much about the implementation for a test, but thanks for pointing that out - will address (one more example that if asked, we could provide a lot of ideas...).
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 1:25
  • Although that does not mean I shouldn't have seen that thank? will result in false positives like than - thank you for noticing :)
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jun 30, 2020 at 1:32
  • 1
    Great code snippet :) Note you need no (?:T|t) if you use /i modifier, /Thanks?(?!.*?(?:but|Though))/i would be enough. However, I'd add word boundary check, /\bThanks?\b(?!.*?\b(?:but|Though)\b)/i. Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 19:22
  • @WiktorStribiżew - thank you (oh, the irony) - this is a remnant of the version prior to Donald Duck noting that an insensitive match could be used. Happy to incorporate the change shortly, what may be better than to show that the community can build this from scratch, review and debug? :)
    – 0Valt
    Commented Jul 11, 2020 at 19:38
48

Even as I admire your efforts in keeping the noisy comments down to a minimum I have to disagree with this experiment. Considering some basic research into when this type of comments appear one can conclude that the tiny button under vote buttons will not solve this problem. It might reduce the amount of comments containing "thanks", but it is not the solution.

It's OP's fault

Most such comments come from the original poster. The comments are posted by the same people who leave "Thank you in advance" at the end of their questions. OP just wants to personally thank other people for taking interest in their question. They can post such comments even at 1 rep.

The problem here is that new users are not educated properly on what to do when someone answers your question. They don't know that these comments bring nothing of value to the site; it is just an act of courtesy to thank people for their time.

Askers do it usually after upvoting/accepting, but many do it on all answers that they get and they only accept the best one.

I have been a victim of this many times on my own answers. Sometimes I leave the comment for a few minutes to make the OP feel welcome before nuking their comment. I think that many people don't have the heart to press that flag button when OP posts thank you under your answer. After all, it feels nice to be appreciated.

Thanks, fixed!

The rest of thank you comments can be divided into two parts.

  1. Someone posted a comment informing you of a typo or something you need to fix and you would like to let them know that you received it. "Thank you" comments are perfect for this and they are used in such a way by even very high reputation users (>100k). The difference here is that we know "Thank you" comments under 50 UTF-16 code units long can be easily nuked. When we reply we expect the person to remove the original comment and nuke ours. It's a self-cleaning process.

  2. Someone searching the net for a solution to their problem and finding an answer. After trying they feel obliged to confirm that the solution worked for them. Thus, we arrive at "Thanks, it worked for me" on old posts. It's a tiny fraction and it can be easily fixed, as already suggested by multiple answers in this thread, by regex with a popup informing them that the upvote button should be used instead. If you have the privilege to post thanks on someone else's post you also have the privilege to upvote.

What is the point of the new button?

For the author of the post it will be pleasant noise. We don't gain anything from thanks, just as we don't gain anything from "thanks" in comments. Only this time we can't actually remove this noise if we want to.

For the thanker, this will mostly go unnoticed. They don't want to press an anonymous button, they want you to feel how they are personally thankful for your answer.

Don't we already let people press buttons? We have anonymous feedback. It is only to make people feel better. It serves no purpose and is hidden from normal users of the site. How is the new button different? My recommendation would be to light up the upvote button even when the upvote is not counted towards the score.

6
  • 3
    "[...] comments under 50 UTF-16 code units long can be easily nuked." <-- I disagree. Saying "Thank you, but it still causes the same error." is 46 characters long and has a lot of important information. Saying "Thank you, it now works. I'm upvoting and accepting your answer." could be removed after some time, and has no meaningfull content despite being 64 characters long. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:44
  • @IsmaelMiguel Please read the context. I meant comments only saying "Thanks, I have updated the answer"
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:46
  • Your criteria was based on length. While putting meaning into code is impossible, there are comments that have a short length but lots of information that's important. And long ones that are just fluff. Also: "When we reply we expect the person to remove the original comment and nuke ours." <-- this nuking can only be done by the moderators, who already have a lot on their plate. You're just adding more for them if you expect comments to be removed like that. But there are situations where this makes sense (like, say, for a comment about something to fix that no longer applies can be flagged). Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:50
  • @IsmaelMiguel I purposefully said short comments with Thanks in them, which we can nuke ourselves without moderators. I never want to give moderators more work than necessary. I agree that short comments can have meaning and are useful. I don't encourage deleting comments based solely on the length. You must have misunderstood that paragraph. I was talking about letting the other person know that we read their comment by posting easily deletable reply-comment. If the comment is short and has a keyword in it, we can delete it without moderators help.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 10:55
  • 1
    These "thank you" comments do bring something of value to the site. A heartfelt thank you message means a lot more to me than an upvote.
    – Flimm
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 10:03
  • @Flimm Sure, but once you read it you can delete it. How many times will be you coming back to read the same comment?
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 10:04
47

No.

Once again SE Inc. is addressing the wrong problem.

The problem is not that people do not have a way to indicate whether an answer is helpful or not. They do; it's called upvoting.

The problem is that people are posting useless "thanks" comments, most likely because they don't know what upvoting is.

Put this "feature" in the bin. Replace it with a snippet of JavaScript that checks the content of a comment field when submitted, and if said comment contains nothing more than "thanks", suggests to the user to use an upvote instead and prevents them submitting the comment.

3
  • 7
    "suggests to the user to use an upvote" - as I thought, this solution is way more appropriate than what was done.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 11:29
  • 6
    Note that many comments start with "thanks", then go on to say something useful.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:49
  • 1
    I would be hesitant to prevent submission unless the check is extremely specific (i.e. it doesn't catch all that many cases). There will always be issues with outright preventing something based on a broad regex or something, like people needing to find a hack to put "problem" in the title of a question (like for one that's about the travelling salesman problem). Maybe just show a warning and give them a choice (e.g. post anyway / upvote instead). Or maybe the benefit outweighs the downside.
    – NotThatGuy
    Commented Jun 21, 2020 at 4:08
40

I think that the way how it is currently expected to be implemented creates a wide open door for abuse.

The proposed design makes it possible for anyone to create a hundred sock puppet accounts and immediately cast "likes" in any quantities they want. And this kind of violation would be much harder to catch than . And even if caught, what are you going to do? Suspend the (1-rep) abuser? Ha, they will just create the next hundred of sock puppets and keep doing what they did.

Be prepared to observe totally weird things like poor quality / spammy answers (including, but not limited to, all kinds of rants and senseless jokes) sitting at -10 score and having thousand likes.

Heck, be prepared to observe this even without any abuse, from legitimate "thankers" (which will be even more painful because there will be no way for you to stop that. There isn't any reason to suspend them and undo the damage).

You know, even upvotes from 15-rep users may be harmful (give a read to Atwood's Trouble With Popularity if you haven't yet). And now you are going to multiply this risk by 10,000.


The idea to reduce useless "thanks" in comments looks tempting and in theory I could support tricks helping in that. However, the price we have to pay for getting it the way you suggest seems too high.

You know, my primary reason for visiting Stack Overflow (explained eg here) is to learn from properly (cu)rated content, and thinking about how post quality rating may get totally skewed... it just makes me sad. Very sad.

Consider implementing this in a way that carries less risk of damaging content rating. One thing that comes to mind is to somehow limit visibility of these "likes", for example, showing them only to those who cast the like and to the post author.

Another thing I would strongly recommend to have is public visibility of likes in user profiles and (especially!) in Data Explorer. This way you could leverage power of broad site community to discover and fight potential abuse.

In order to minimize impact of possible abuse, I would additionally recommend that user deletion would make all of their likes disappear - immediately and unconditionally. For the same purpose, consider implementing "likes invalidation" tooling similar to one that is currently used for invalidation of fraudulent votes.


Another way to address that would be to focus on more important need of users having reputation between 1 and 125. This problem is somewhat similar and can be technically addressed using essentially the same code that you already made for "thanks" feature.

Having association bonus you probably won't notice part of this issue because it allows you vote up everywhere but you can easily see the other part at sites where you have insufficient reputation to vote down.

Imagine that you visit some question that you have already seen in the past (simply visited it, or bookmarked or followed). Imagine that in the past visit you already spent some effort, evaluated the question and answers and decided for yourself which are useful and which are not.

Unfortunately, because insufficient reputation didn't let you vote up and down, when you see it again, there is no way for you to tell how you evaluated it before so you have to repeat cumbersome reading and checking things to find it out.

If system somehow recorded your past evaluation and displayed it to you this would save you quite a bit of effort, wouldn't it.

FWIW "thanks" feature currently partially aids in that because users with reputation between 1 and 15 can (mis)use it to record positive evaluation. But since the experiment had so thoroughly failed it will likely be removed so that problem described above will get back to us again.

This information wouldn't really need to be publicly visible in the post, because you evaluated things for yourself, not for others - merely listing it in Votes and reactions tab in your profile would perfectly suffice to serve the user need (though tab would likely have to be renamed to something like "votes and evaluations" to prevent misleading users about its purpose).

Incidentally, getting rid of showing it publicly would also remove possibility of abuse.

12
  • 3
    If a thanks has no value, why even bother with catching such fraud? I actually really loved this idea in a different implementation... where someone could say thanks as many times as they liked (could set some limitations, say, one per day), sort of like claps on Medium... and not even require being logged in to use it... I hear so often about people who end up using the same post over and over because they forget what it said, so this would let them react every time they had to reference the post again... heck, I've even heard people end up finding an answer they wrote when problem solving.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:07
  • 7
    @Catija because it may have no value for us, but it's still a metric that someone could manipulate to interpret however they like.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:17
  • 5
    ^^^ @Catija exactly this. How do you expect site visitors to use the answer that has -10 score and 100 likes?
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:19
  • Why would anyone use an answer that has that many downvotes? That seems like a terrible idea.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:20
  • 28
    @Catija how do you expect site visitors to know that downvotes matter while likes are insignificant? For someone inexperienced, these will likely look just like equally important numbers
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:22
  • 3
    The fact that it's greyed out and at the bottom of the list is usually a good signal that it's bad. And the number size is hugely different. Score is huge compared to reaction count. I understand your concerns. I share some of them... but I would like to see what actually happens - this is good for us to keep in mind and maybe we can find some solution like not showing reactions on negatively-scoring posts... but let's ... just... see what the testing shows. :)
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:26
  • 1
    @Catija showing likes on zero / low positive score posts may be even more damaging, because in this case inexperienced visitors won't even have a visual hint that quality may be troublesome, all that they will se will be multiple (possibly fake) likes
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:29
  • 1
    Yep... and I just said that... "maybe we can find some solution like not showing reactions on negatively-scoring post". :D I agree with you. I just want to see what the impact is.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:33
  • 3
    showing thanks only to the thanker and the OP sounds like a great immediate adjustment to make to this; great idea.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 20:40
  • 2
    @Catija "Why would anyone use an answer that has that many downvotes? That seems like a terrible idea." some people who visit the likes of Reddit and Imgur and similar platforms that have upvote/downvote for posts accept a negative score as a just "Oh, it's just not popular". A post can make a good point but be downvoted because it's dissenting from the majority. Its like...voting on meta: negatively scored posts aren't necessarily bad but simply more people disagree with it. Also negative score doesn't exactly prevent using certain things anyway.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 5:53
  • (melancholically) this can increase engagement and new user registrations if they make a profile setting with an option to hide likes. Could be even greater success than Dark Mode
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:04
  • ^^^ PS. Prom what I recently learned this thanks reaction indeed looks like attempt to somehow boost engagement metrics
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 29, 2020 at 14:35
38

This is a mistake.

It's already hard enough to get users to realize that the way to say Thank You is to accept the answer.

Providing another way to say Thank You will merely reduce the already abysmal acceptance rate. And that, in turn, will reduce the already fading incentive to answer in the first place.

3
  • 3
    To be fair though - the accept answer feature is sometimes less than useful, thanks to its ability to pin less than useful answers to the top, no matter how lowly the community thinks of them. And makes it harder to a question at the whim of the asker. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 16:33
  • @JohnDvorak I quite often see that OP's accept(ed) hilarious answers, which partwise not even answer the question at all, while elaborate answers are "unpinned" dipping in the dark. How can that be? It's unbelievable. Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 8:36
  • @matt I think we both are one of the only ones, who see this new feature actually as harmful, not only just not necessary or confusing. This provides a quite different view on the feature. +1 Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 8:39
38

Wow, thanks!

enter image description here

... but no thanks.

To be less flippant though:

  • I'm not that troubled by "thanks" comments.
  • There are other ways to reduce the frequency of "thanks" comments, without such a profound change with so many ripples of effect on interactions on the network.
  • Comments which include "thanks" and more text are actually often useful and certainly not a problem.
  • You should have brought up the question of whether this was a problem, whether a solution should be worked on, and what solution that should be - here or on Meta.SX, before going ahead with the experiment.
  • I'm not being contrarian. When you do good things - like the CommonMark transition (and maybe tables!), I'll be (among) the first to support them.
  • I'm worried that this is a "can't fail" experiment...
10
  • 5
    To your last bullet: it is very important to define precise goals for something like this... As you note, "thank you but" and "thank you because" comments can be pretty useful! When GitHub rolled out reactions, the observed effect was no reduction in comments containing emoji... But a significant reduction in comments that were nothing but emoji. The equivalent on SO would be "thank you...!15" or some such - if THAT can be tracked, separated from the larger group, testing efficacy here stands to be interesting.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 14:31
  • @Shog9: +1 on that. But - even with concrete criteria, it could be that failure in the criteria will not result in rolling it back, just in tweaking it this way or that.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 14:45
  • Yeah, your last point is my biggest concern - saying "we're going to try this" but having a "but we're not getting rid of it no matter what" feels too much like when DOCs was launched (it will just reverse all goodwill that's been built up as its basically lying - or at least will feel that way to people who just started thinking about maybe trusting SE a little) Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:25
  • I think @LinkBerest meant Stack Overflow Documentation
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:41
  • @Scratte yep, only 10kers can see that page though: its the last failed experiment Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:43
  • @LinkBerest: Ah, yes. I couldn't bring myself to go there during the experiment because I felt it would be overly redundant with SO itself.
    – einpoklum
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:45
  • 1
    @Shog9 I don't understand how that's comparable. We already have voting. GitHub doesn't (so I've been told).
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:50
  • 1
    The systems are not directly comparable, @scratte - you kinda have to figure out what each action means within its system, and then find an equivalent. For example, you could say that voting on SO serves a purpose on SO somewhat akin to that of a PR review approve/request changes on GH.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 16:55
  • @Shog9 I'm going to guess that PR means a Pull Request. And that makes sense to compare, except I do not hope that random user stopping by a repository are able to make an approval of such. As for the GitHub reactions, it seems to be on comments, which we also already have with the tiny-upvote. So.. you could say that GitHub implemented the tiny-upvote that we have, and then it sort of doesn't make sense to lean on the success of that.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 17:14
  • This is why I say you have to look at the role of the feature within its own system, @scratte.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 19, 2020 at 19:03
37

The system deletes "thank you" comments immediately when 1 single flag is raised.

No mod intervention required most of the time.

3
  • How are those comments identified? Do you have a source? Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 17:08
  • 1
    @PeterMortensen staff posts on Meta say it's by RegEx. The same mechanism used to confirm single flag deletion also prevents offensive language by preemptive filtering.
    – bad_coder
    Commented Jun 20, 2020 at 17:21
  • 1
    @PeterMortensen It's in the comment voting/flagging FAQ: > Comments containing certain "trigger" keywords are deleted instantly after a single flag, regardless of upvotes. The list of trigger keywords is kept secret, and may differ per site.
    – Mast
    Commented Jun 24, 2020 at 7:51
34

Your effort could've been spared by asking the community for good solutions of the "Thanks"-commenting problem before implementing anything, just like Andreas pointed out in a comment.

I like the idea to change the tooltip of the upvote to "Thank and upvote", just like Caius Jard pointed out in another comment. This should be applied to upvotes for comments, too.

This is probably not enough to reduce the thank-comments significantly, so additionally you could display a little blocking popover when commenting that is short and contains "thank", "thx" or whatever, too.

This popover would recommend the user to upvote the post/comment, instead. It would also contain a button "comment anyways" to bypass the block.

9
  • 5
    Changing the tooltip to include "thanks" deserves its own discussion too. The reason why people post all these "thanks", or fluff, is because they misunderstand the site. I'm worried adding "thanks" to the tooltip further pushes the conception that you need to "thank" (and that upvotes aren't enough), but I might be wrong. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:09
  • "display a little blocking popover when commenting any answer that is short and contains "thank", "thx" or whatever, too." Isn't there already a canned response to that? Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:12
  • @Andreas No, there isn't ... Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:20
  • On the main sites, not meta sites. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:21
  • 3
    @Andreas I just tested it on a random answer on the main page and removed my comment again. It did not suggest me to upvote there, either. Maybe the feature exists only for new members, but based on the statistics it should suggest this to everyone, everytime. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:23
  • mhm. Strange. Somebody posted such a canned message on a duplicate of this meta "question", and I remembered I'd gotten a similar one once I was replying with "thanks" to somebody that pointed out an issue in one of my answers. Commented Jun 17, 2020 at 22:25
  • The comment box already has a placeholder with the following content: "Use comments to ask for clarification or add more information. Avoid comments like “+1” or “thanks”.". Maybe adding something for new users, where they have to click a button to be able to write a comment? Would that satisfy what you wanted? Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 9:11
  • @IsmaelMiguel You already have to click a link to start commenting. And yes I know the avoid-hint, but apparently the problem is either this is not read or rejected by the user. Blocking popover that requires an additional interaction has a little bit of a nagging character, but it can help to move more people into upvoting, instead. Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 13:38
  • 1
    @MartinBraun The idea would be for users below 100 reputation. Those do tend to just say "Thank you". And the link you have to click is, literally, a link saying "add a comment". Adding this information in there, before they click, could be a good idea as well Commented Jun 18, 2020 at 16:30

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