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I keep seeing edit suggestions to add screenshots of text get approved. (Another recent example.) This isn't just a matter of robo-reviewing; users above 2K reputation will also make these edits (deleted, 10K+). People think these are good edits.

This problem isn't limited to screenshots of text. I also see questions that have images like screenshots, layout drawings, etc. that are still unclear without the image(s) visible. (Compare it with this with this meta question where the images were used to show the issue but not to explain it. Four of the six didn't even need alt text added.)

There is a warning when users include images:

Images are useful in a post, but make sure the post is still clear without them. If you post images of code or error messages, copy and paste or type the actual code or message into the post directly.

However, that warning goes away when the user reaches 15 reputation. Since users aren't even allowed to inline images until they reach 10 reputation, most users never see it.

Can we raise the amount of reputation required to stop seeing the warning?

My initial thought as far as a specific number is 2K; it makes sense for users to see the warning until the system actually trusts them to make edits without review. But this feature request should not be tied to that specific number. The important thing is that it actually get seen by users before it goes away.

(Personally, I'd also like to see the limit go away for a while since even very high rep users are doing this but I'm assuming a request for that will get shot down.)

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    There is a pretty dark side to warnings like this, how many legitimate and important edits are not going to be made because of a false warning? Turd polishing is the real problem, the machine is not nearly smart enough to detect it. Has a very high indirect cost as well, it is the junk that gets re-activated over and over again. If it was up to me, my Interesting page would never show an edit again. They are never interesting. I proposed it as a new benefit when Shog9 asked for new rep features a while ago, holy cow did it get downvoted. Sad. Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 8:51
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    how many legitimate and important edits are not going to be made because of a false warning? @HansPassant Zero, because "make sure the post is still clear without them" is never going to be something you shouldn't do. Note that the warning does not prevent anyone from adding the image.
    – BSMP
    Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 9:03
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    The bar needs raising to at least 66K, per a comment by such a user: "Posts with embedded images of code are objectively better than links to images of code." It reads to me as "images of code are objectively better than a kick in the head, so ..."
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 10:35
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    I am agree with Hans Passant comment. It is strange to reject proposed post edit ONLY because it is contains image that have been originally inserted by OP and corrected by third-user to allow SO displays it. People here make efforts to make questions and answers better. And there are no their guilty that OP's post contains improperly inserted image. If it is not appropriate to add images contained code\errors\etc. in post it would be nice to mention it in Help Center and also add a special flag to notify moderators about graphical post and don't make efforts to improve it at all. Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 13:41
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    What about your question - it could be a good idea, but it simple useless. Even if this message will never gone (for all users regardless of their rep.) there are will still lots of posts that contain images with code/errors/etc. No one here is powerful enough to stop new (and middle-new) users to post what they think good to post. The only solution - is delete such posts (flag it with new specifical flag). Editing is not helpful here: after you remove image from OP's question/answer it could be treated as act of vandalise. Two my comments is just my opinion whatever it means. Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 13:42
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    another idea was to replace the "drag the image" there by a text with a warning: please no images of text pretty please... This has been suggested a while back and would require minimal changes to the site.... but it's not done. Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 17:15
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    @Jean-FrançoisFabre you definitely talking about this)) Commented Nov 17, 2018 at 17:33
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    No one here is powerful enough to stop new (and middle-new) users to post what they think good to post. @Dima That's what down votes are for. In the case of debugging questions that have images of code, the lack of MCVE close reason also applies. But showing more users the warning will reduce how often it happens. Some users do actually replace the images with text when people leave comments asking them to (if the question doesn't get answered first).
    – BSMP
    Commented Nov 18, 2018 at 6:28
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    User that proposed this edit just fixed problem with image incorrectly inserted by OP. According to your next comment, you could approve this edit (as user did efforts: spent his free time to make this question a little better) and then downvote this question to signalise to others that there is a problem with it. One who improves posts shouldn't be in charge of someone whose post contains images but not code. No, I am not tell you what you must to do, I just expressed my opinion over this situation. Commented Nov 18, 2018 at 14:19
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    But downvotes will not have success in fight against graphical-posts. New user has no rep. so he doesn't lost anything if its post got some negative marks. Hence there is no motivation for novices to create well-prepared post: even if it will got some downvotes, user will not lost nothing (rep is 1), and there is still a chance that someone posts answer. Once user got answer he will leave SO for a while. If he will be in need of help after some time, he just creates new account and posts his question that improperly(!) formatted again. Commented Nov 18, 2018 at 14:20
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    The only solution - wipe these graphical-posts away as soon as possible. We are fighting with spam by using special flag. We also could downvotes spam posts, but it is too highly unlikely that they would be wiped away. That is why I think about new flag. How we can distinguish graphical-post from other poor-formatted posts? Is it too broad? No. Question could be straight enough, but has image instead of pure code. Is it Not unclear? There are lots of reasons to say "No". New flag creates new clear criteria to call for mods. attention to post. But this is a subject for discussing. Commented Nov 18, 2018 at 14:22
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    @Dima after multiple negative posts, a user may become question-banned, and that affects IP address and/or cookies, which will be effective against some users.
    – Cœur
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 7:49
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    @MrLister Sounds like a lot of work, actually. A code with not too much text is not very different from a diagram/table.
    – user202729
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:09
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    @TylerH I strongly disagree that, "Here is my code enter image description" is an improvement over, "Here is my code blahblah".
    – BSMP
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 18:20
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    @BSMP I'm not sure what you're saying; I didn't suggest that replacing text with different text was an improvement; I said replacing a link with an embed is an improvement.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 18:45

2 Answers 2

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Regarding the approved edits:

Perhaps those reviewing users need to be smacked down with a temporary edit & review edit ban. But that's for diamond mods to decide, not meta. Flag such reviews for diamond mod attention - replacing an URL with a picture of code does not improve the question whatsoever.

However, I think the root of the problem with the approved edits is the de facto standard edit review policy, which says that edits that improve the quality of the post should be approved, even if the post should have been closed in the first place. As in, we are supposed to review the edit, not the quality of the original post itself.

Normally, when the user posts an URL to a picture that illustrates the problem, it is an improvement to have that URL replaced with a direct picture. But that's meant to be used for cases like "the GUI I'm coding looks weird when I do x, see this picture".

I'm all for a review reject reason for suggested edits on questions that should have been closed in the first place.

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    Yeah, changing links to images to inline images arguably makes the post better, and if we accept that it does, then accepting the edit is compliant with our current norms on edit reviews. I don't think the reviewing users deserve to be "smacked down" at all; I think they did the right thing and applied our policy - fairly consistently agreed over several discussions of precisely this point at meta.stackexchange.com/q/155961/200582 and meta.stackoverflow.com/q/274286/1709587 and meta.stackoverflow.com/q/256078/1709587 - that turd-polishing edits should be accepted.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:14
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    "the de facto standard edit review policy, which says that edits that improve the quality of the post should be approved, even if the post should have been closed in the first place" - Yeah, that's why I don't follow the standard edit review policy and would reject away Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:19
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    I'm sympathetic to the arguments against that policy - after all, I asked one of the questions complaining about how accepting edits to posts that remain crap afterwards incentivises low-rep users to waste time on worthless edits. Still, I think on balance I'm glad the policy is as it is. I'd rather have half the suggested edits I review be turd-polishing than see 1 in 10 good edit suggestions on good posts rejected by reviewers who couldn't see the the underlying post's value. Also, as others note, polishing a genuine turd can be useful by proving that there isn't a pearl hidden within it.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:21
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    Also note that a lot of actively moderating high-rep users will inline such image links even on crap questions so that when the question gets closed later someone doesn't come along and suggest that edit (which would then put the question into the reopen queue for no good reason). Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:42
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    @AndrasDeak: that is actually a very good point... I always first ask to include the code as text, and when there is no reaction from the OP (usually because their question did get answered – sigh), I vote to close. However, even when the question got closed, people will still be able to propose this as an edit.
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 10:16
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    @NickA shouldn't you post your suggestions about improving review policy on StackExchange? In my opinion, if you find out that review policy doesn't fit your personal expectations you shouldn't participate in reviewing at all. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 12:33
  • @AndrasDeak yes, it could be. But it seems that internal system's mechanism should be set up to disallow post editing after it has been closed. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 12:35
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    @Dima: apologies, I have used the term "closed" for what actually is called "put on hold". A question can be put on hold so it may be improved and then re-opened. That is why it is still editable. Taking away the editibiiblityness would accomplish nothing and then we might better call it "Vote To Delete".
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 12:38
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    @Dima what usr2564301 said. There's a trigger so that when a post is first edited in the first 5 (7?) days after being put on hold, it automatically enters the reopen queue. This is great when askers clarify or otherwise fix their previously close-worthy questions. But when the first edit is something cosmetic or otherwise insufficient to make the question eligible for reopening, it's a waste of effort (and subsequent substantial edits by OP won't put the question into the reopen queue). The solution is not blocking editing, but rather educating users about the underlying mechanics. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 12:55
  • @usr2564301 thank you for clarification! I just thought there is a lack of control over this situation in SO. I was wrong about it) Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:04
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    @AndrasDeak indeed, it would be nice to reflect such description of operation over posts in Help Center. But now, instead of this, new user must make search on Meta to find post dated 3 (approx.) years ago and read important info. Bad practice as for me. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:09
  • @Lundin should we still flag if the edit is very old? See stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/19498144
    – Cœur
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 16:45
  • As in, we are supposed to review the edit, not the quality of the original post itself. Sure, but if users had been seeing the warning this whole time, maybe reviewers wouldn't be incorrectly viewing the edits themselves as good.
    – BSMP
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 18:32
  • "I'm all for a review reject reason for suggested edits on questions that should have been closed in the first place." Except anyone who suggests edits can't vote to close them. So maybe not a reject reason for that one...
    – user10957435
    Commented Dec 5, 2019 at 19:20
1

As I understand it, the current policy on edits that embed screenshots of code and/or errors is given by the following Meta discussions:

  1. Why not upload images of code on SO when asking a question? for which the accepted answer is:

    You should not post code as an image...

    And also Discourage screenshots of code and/or errors for which the accepted answer includes guidance that states:

    Images are useful in a post, but make sure the post is still clear without them. If you post images of code or error messages, copy and paste or type the actual code or message into the post directly.

  2. How to review edits that add images? for which the accepted answer states:

    If an edit proposes an image of code, then that edit should be rejected. Period.

If the community is still in agreement that these should be the rules for Stack Overflow, then they should be enforced. But currently I'm also seeing edits that embed images of code, and edit approvals of edits that embed images of code. If we want to discourage such edits and edit approvals, we might consider a couple of changes.

Firstly, we could regularly add audits to the "Suggested Edits" review queue that check to see that reviewers reject edits that embed screenshots of text without also adding in the text itself. If reviewers are tested on this periodically, we'll learn.

Secondly, we could add an explicit rejection option to the Why are you rejecting this edit? dialog:

Why are you rejecting this edit?

  • spam or vandalism
  • no improvement whatsoever
  • irrelevant tags
  • clearly conflicts with author's intent
  • attempt to reply
  • Embeds a screenshot of code or other textual data
    An edit that embeds a screenshot of code, errors, or other textual data without also including the text itself should be rejected as per this rule.
  • causes harm
    [ ]

By adding an explicit reason to reject an edit to this dialog, we make it much more likely that editors, and edit reviewers, will become aware of that rule. (Usually I pick "causes harm" and add a note linking back to https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/350228 - but I admit that seems harsh.)

Of course, the Meta policies included above are from https://meta.stackoverflow.com/ and thus only apply to Stack Overflow itself. I have no idea whether it's possible to implement a rejection reason specific to one and only one Stack Exchange site.

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  • I agree that a specific reject reason would be a good way to get this rule in front of reviewers. Given the amount of time and voting on this post it should probably be it's own separate feature request. If you're correct that it would have to be a change network wide, it should probably be a request on Meta Stack Exchange.
    – BSMP
    Commented Nov 21, 2018 at 21:50
  • @BSMP - I don't know whether this would require a network-wide change though, I'd like some feedback from somebody who knows first before posting the idea to Meta Stack Exchange
    – dbc
    Commented Nov 21, 2018 at 22:27

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