39

Back before the great change of edit reasons, from time to time I would come across a suggested edit to some utterly worthless post that was, I guess, an improvement, but not enough of one for the resulting post to have any value.

We're talking about things like:

  • Beautifully fixing broken code formatting on an answer that is totally wrong and confusing, and remains so after the edit
  • Beautifully fixing the grammar and writing style of a totally wrong answer
  • Fixing code errors in somebody's ugly code-only answer to a question that already has a much superior answer

Essentially, cases where the post is unsalvagable, clearly deserved a downvote before, and still does after - but the edit undeniably makes it a little less crap. I don't want to approve these edits because the editor is wasting their time putting effort into something that won't actually help anybody, and I don't feel good about incentivising people to waste time and energy.

Before the edit reasons were changed, I used to reject these with custom reasons along the lines of

This answer was bad before your edit because [reason], and it's still bad now for the same reason. It will never help anyone. Don't waste your own time editing crap like this - go outside instead.

But when I go to do this, the custom rejection reason box is labelled causes harm and the placeholder text tells me

Describe how this edit would make the post worse.

Well, it wouldn't, and that's not why I want to reject it. Am I supposed to wave these edits through, now?

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  • 2
    I went ahead and rejected the way I would have done in the past. If I've been a naughty boy, I apologize - this question exists precisely because I'm unsure if this is or ever was, in the eyes of the mods and community, the right thing to do in this case.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 11, 2014 at 20:25
  • 27
    If you reject a good edit to a crap post, you're preventing multiple good edits from turning a crap post to a good post. If the post cannot possibly be de-crapified, then reject the edit and delete the post. Commented Oct 12, 2014 at 0:59
  • 8
    Consider the edit also as an opportunity to help the OP better understanding of markdown and the expected quality standards.
    – user289086
    Commented Oct 12, 2014 at 6:12
  • 2
    I believe the term you're looking for is "polishing a turd". Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 13:01
  • 2
    Closely related: Is "don't polish turds" a valid edit rejection reason?
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 19:27

6 Answers 6

49

I agree that such edits should be accepted.

The critical point is that if a post gets deleted then all karma associated with it gets deleted too. Either the post is good enough to make the cut, in which case even a minor improvement is worthwhile; or it's unsalvageable, in which case it will eventually get deleted and the edit will be deleted too.

If you think the post is crap, then accept the edit and flag for deletion. If the community disagrees with your deletion verdict, then it's quite right that the edit should stand.

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    Are you sure that the +2 for accepted edit gets reverted? Oh, I guess so Think that's a recent change.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 16:51
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    Yes, it does @Ben. Not particularly recent, although real-time rep recalculation is slightly newer than the suggested edit system so there would've been a time when you'd lose the rep but not notice.
    – Shog9
    Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 16:53
  • Actually there is one thing that won't get reverted, and that's badge awards. Progress towards a badge will be reverted, but if you hit the threshold, and a delete takes you back under it, the badge won't be revoked. But the Copy Editor badge, at least, has such a high threshold it doesn't seem like a huge problem. It would be difficult to game the system to any substantial degree. Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 17:49
  • If I were to argue against this (and I'm honestly not sure where I stand), I'd point out that it's official policy - to the point of being a flag rejection reason - that flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer. Flagging for deletion as you suggest would therefore be inappropriate for a large number of crap answers - but that doesn't mean that editing those answers is useful, appropriate, or to be encouraged.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 23:43
  • 1
    Editing those answers is absolutely useful, appropriate, and to be encouraged (as long as they don't significantly change the meaning of a post). What is not useful, appropriate, or to be encouraged is rejecting the edits. If you don't think a post should be edited because it's so bad, then go ahead and don't edit it - you can even just skip the edit review if you want. Only reject edits that fall foul of the rejection reasons. If a post really is that bad, it would probably fall under very low quality; if it's just wrong, then allow the edit.
    – worldofjr
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 6:39
  • 1
    I remain uncomfortable with the policy you've proposed here - for the reasons given in the question and my comment on this answer - but the voting, answers and comments on this page show very clear, near-unanimous support for it. I will be adopting it despite my misgivings.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 18:01
  • Flag for deletion may just be incorrect terminology, users with the appropriate amount of rep can vote to delete posts of negative score, which is what should be done in this case. If the post isn't negatively voted yet, give it a downvote.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 21:05
18

I would argue to accept these edits:

Unless the question/answer is so bad that you delete it directly. If that is not possible every improvement should be welcomed. Even if it is for the short time period before its deletion, because until then it is still visible to others.

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    You are right. And also the deletion will delete the rep earned for the edit, so the editor will notice he edited a crap post and might not do it again. Commented Oct 12, 2014 at 6:18
13

We should 100% accept edits that improve any part of the community.

Recently, just two weeks ago in fact, there has been three new badges added to the Stack Exchange sites, which you can read about on Editing is essential: new badges and review enhancements. These badges are designed specifically to encourage users to improve questions to make them more searchable, readable, or accessible, and then answer them (or have already). The key word in that sentence being improve.

The article says of the badges;

These recognize a pattern that sets Stack Exchange apart from the forums and message boards that came before it: answering and editing questions, the ability to not only write an answer that can be useful beyond the immediate asker but also re-write the question such that it can be found and understood by future readers.

At the very same time, edit review enhancements were brought in (which you can also read about in the above article) so that reviewers were more likely to accept improving edits. No longer can you reject as too minor, now the edit has to conform to the stricter definition no improvement whatsoever to be rejected. Along with that, the improve edit option was added, so the reviewer also improves the post if they can.

If the question/answer falls into a removal category (in your opinion, which might not be the same as the community's) then flag for removal, but that doesn't mean you should reject an edit to that post. On the contrary, we should applaud anyone who improves such questions and answers in any way - their improvement might lead to a bigger improvement by someone with more knowledge of the subject, who gives a quality answer ... which is the whole point of SO, is it not?

As for your custom rejection reasons, that might well be why the custom reason option was removed!

12

There are three different groups here, each with different things to consider.

First, there's the person who asked the crap post. By editing the post it is possible that they will see an improvement in the quality of the post, look to see what is done, and hopefully write a better post next time. Furthermore, it has been shown that interaction (edits, answers, and comments) on posts helps user retention (in the situation that they do reform) - What happens to new users?. Editing the post to something better is therefore a good thing for this user.

Secondly, there's the people who see the post. By fixing the post it's not an eyesore. Even if the contents of the post is awful, it's something that doesn't make one click away from the page in disgust from a giant include or jagged code block lines (inline rather than block quote). This helps set expectations for others that this is what we expect and you should be striving for this level of mastery of Markdown. It is good here too.

Lastly, there's the people who edit the post. They took the time to improve the site. The site is better for it. Yes, the post may be deleted tomorrow, or the next day, or in a year, or never... but the site is still better for it. And if it does, yes, they've lost the two reputation points they gained during that period... but during that period they were deserving of the change. The improvement is an improvement and 'nuff said.

When taking these things into account, one should accept the improvement. If you have more improvements, by all means, make them. But if it can't be fixed beyond the level that the poster did, you should still accept it.

Also, if it's not an improvement and instead puts random emphasis on words, reject it. That's not an improvement (taking them out, however, is).

8

I'd say at least for edits of questions, it's usually best to accept the edit.

I, for one, sometimes see questions that seem to be pretty close to complete nonsense. In some cases, however, fixing obvious problems (especially code formatting) makes the rest enough more apparent that I can turn it into an understandable question. Admittedly, it's more or less a reverse engineering exercise, from looking at the code, seeing what kinds of questions it should generate, then comparing what they've said to that list.

In other cases, I still can't make that much sense of the question--but if I've already spent time on the formatting and such, it seems a shame to throw the work away, so I save it in the hope that it might help somebody else decipher what's there. I'm not sure how often that really happens, but it seems like it would be a bit arrogant to assume that just because I can't figure it out, nobody else could either.

Edits of answers are tougher. Beautifying an answer that's clearly wrong is unlikely to accomplish anything remotely useful, and may make the wrong answer seem somewhat more reasonable/believable, so it could do active harm. I, for one, would be a lot more likely to reject it, if I'm certain the answer was clearly wrong both before and after the edit.

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    I've occasionally edited answers that I knew were wrong, and then downvoted and left a comment noting why - sometimes, a wrong answer is useful in demonstrating misconceptions, and for that purpose it still needs to be readable.
    – Shog9
    Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 16:56
-2

Who are you (or anyone, when it comes to that really) to judge how other people should spend their time? This is not about good/bad posts, but you're asking about accepting an edit that made the post better (more readable, better grammar etc). If anyone wants to improve any part of SO, he should be more than welcome to.

There's only one question you should ask yourself when approving/rejecting edits:

Does it make the post better or worse?

If the post is really bad, you can always flag/delete/vote/whatever. But that's a different topic and you shouldn't judge edits based on this.

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    Fallacy: The editor can choose how to spend their time. Reality: Suggested edits consume the time of a swarm of reviewers also (as well as bogging down the review queues and making people run out of daily review votes more quickly).
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 22:03
  • @BenVoigt, that's very short-sighted opinion. This site doesn't consist solely from reviewers and editors. I always thought SO was mainly meant for the community and improving quality of posts is a vital thing, yet you're concerned about review queues? Wow. No one is forcing you to edit, nor to review. If the edit doesn't help to increase value of the post, reviewers are free to reject it, so I don't really see your point.
    – walther
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 22:09
  • I'm voting based on what you added to all the existing answers... and what you added was outright wrong. I have plenty of options for "accept edits that make the post better" I can vote for, but yours combines that with a defective rationale.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Oct 14, 2014 at 22:17

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