14

This question was asked and bountied less than two weeks ago: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41554034/transport-or-extract-neural-network-to-another-platform. I flagged it when only a day of the bounty was left and it was marked helpful. The question though, is still there, closed as too broad, and with lots of very broad and opinion based answers.

What should we do with this kind of too broad, highly upvoted questions which do not yet have the age to receive a historical lock?

By now there is an (un-)delete battle going on about this post. Apparently people can't agree on what should be done. I maintain the conclusion as in TigerhawkT3's answer, which is that it in its current state is too broad and attracted too many recommendation-only answers. Since I have not yet seen a conclusive argument as to why this is not too broad, despite Brad's efforts in editing it, I am of the conclusion that it should be deleted.

Can any of the undeleters please write an answer as extensive and argumentative as TigerhawkT3's as to why this question should not be deleted, so that a final conclusion can be reached?

16
  • 25
    I vote for the meta effect.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jan 28, 2017 at 22:06
  • 2
    I guess that Randall has to make a Words for Big Sets too...
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 28, 2017 at 22:15
  • 4
    That question is not only too broad, it's also opinion-based and inviting software recommendations, and it contains at least three separate questions. It should be deleted as soon as possible. Commented Jan 29, 2017 at 1:47
  • 2
    Is it possible that several people in the same class upvoted the question!?! Commented Jan 29, 2017 at 3:12
  • @TinyGiant no it doesn't. Guess that'll be one nice (un-)delete battle.
    – Adriaan
    Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 16:50
  • @TinyGiant That's funny. Whenever I click on the link to the question it says "Page not found".
    – Chris
    Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 16:51
  • 3
    And the question is deleted. Guess status-complete. Good job everyone!
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 18:36
  • 2
    @Braiam it has been deleted/undeleted 2 times now, so no idea if this is tag:status-complete already. Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 12:32
  • @g00glen00b well, as things go, undeletion just serves as means to pile on more downvotes. I prefer that if the people that want it undeleted really want it undeleted, they should fix the question instead of stubbornly fight it out.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 12:35
  • 1
    people have found the answers useful, and it's closed, just leave it. win-win. Not worth fighting over, there's plenty of other questions that also need to be closed.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:14
  • @KevinB how about you search a question that adheres to the site standards and post those answers? Why nobody propose that?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:44
  • 1
    I mean, if you want to do that, more power to you. I don't see this question being not deleted as a hinderance to this site operating.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:45
  • 1
    @KevinB every closed question is either edited and fixed or deleted. That's what closed means. If you don't want the question to be eligible for deletion, then fix the reasons that merit its closure.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:53
  • @Braiam that isn't true at all, there's plenty of closed questions with "useful" answers that aren't deleted. Here's an example: stackoverflow.com/questions/14994391/… here's another: stackoverflow.com/questions/194397/… search closed:yes
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:54
  • @KevinB instead of looking for stuff that hasn't been deleted yet, how about you look for stuff that wasn't deleted because someone effort to make it so like these 45 questions
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:56

2 Answers 2

16

That question has several warning signs.

How can we implement/embed/transport this ready-to-use ANN to another system that does not support MATLAB or Python? Is there any method to do this?

This sounds like something that would be found in an in-depth guide (too broad).

If it is not possible or requires too much effort, can we extract an equation from the black box of the ready-to-use neural network and implement/embed it in another coding scheme?

This sounds like project planning (too broad).

If so, how we can do this using MATLAB or Python?

Ah, a classic "I don't even know what language I want to use" question, with the expected tag soup (too broad).

Note that there are three questions in this question by now (too broad).

Now let's look at some snippets from the answers this question attracted:

Use a C++ Neural Network framework, with a Python facade and skip the python part for prediction. I wouldn't recommend Tensorflow since using it from C++ isn't standard. Caffe has a C++ interface and is arguably the second most-popular deep learning library so you can't really go wrong. Torch+Lua is easily integrable. It seems feasible with Keras : keras2cpp

A whole paragraph of opinion-based software recommendations.

Answering in the most general possible interpretation of your question:

Yes, there are indeed many interpretations for such a broad question.

implement a program in another language (for example, Java)

Implement a program! Of course! Why didn't I think of that? A perfect answer to any SO question (too broad).

Obviously this requires quite a bit of work

Which can't be shown, because SO isn't a coding service and "good answers would be too long for this format."

So I agree the main idea is

If we're still trying to nail down "the main idea" in an answer, that's too broad. That conversation belongs in a meeting at the OP's workplace/organization.

More detailed information about it with some useful example you can get here. Main idea there is try to avoid using it manually but use some toolboxes. For example: Eigen , Caffe and some another instruments.

A pile of off-site resources and software recommendations. This is off topic for SO.

For example. Now I'm working in this way trying to create dll or convert .m and .mat files into C++. Something like this article. If I will success in it I will add my example code here.

More of the same. This is project planning, which is too broad for this site.

What should we do? I think it's pretty clear that this question should be closed (as it has been) and then deleted (which it currently can't be, because we have many users who can't recognize a project planning too broad software recommendation question and upvote based on "I like this forum and this sounds like a cool thread"). Hopefully its score plunges enough to be eligible for deletion by 20k users, and then we can get rid of it. Maybe this kind of question was okay 5-6 years ago, but today it's out of place, and I for one do not relish the prospect of it being linked by authors of other inappropriate questions as some kind of "evidence" that these questions are acceptable here.

12
  • Editing the question into shape is, if possible, great, but that'd render most answers obsolete and overhaul the question so profoundly that you can't rightly say anymore that it's the OP's question, as you'd need to add a specific use case and preferably (pseudo-)code of what has been tried. I therefore agree with you that this should be deleted. The only other option I see is that the OP changes it to be not too broad, after which all the answers would have to be deleted since they no longer would fit the narrowed down question.
    – Adriaan
    Commented Jan 29, 2017 at 8:18
  • 9
    As someone working in the field, I quite disagree with this response. The first problem in this answer is the assumption "don't know which language to use" because MATLAB/Pyton is mentioned. That refers to the source environments from which the data is to be taken, not the target implementation. For people who understands ANN, "extract an equation" doesn't sound at all like project planning. A trained ANN is a pretty huge equation with multiple matrix multiplications and non-linear operators in between, but is is an equation.
    – MSalters
    Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 11:14
  • 8
    As for the answers, we have always held that software recommendations in an answer are justifiable; the ban is specifically on questions ask for recommendations.
    – MSalters
    Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 11:17
  • 3
    I agree with @MSalters . "This is off topic for SO" should have a link to the appropriate section of the help section as it sounds very opinion based. I especially don't see how a locked question is a problem in anyway? What reasons was there to delete a question, concerning something that any developer of Neural networks may face some day? This is like closing android questions that concern specific hardware. It's utter nonsense enforced by people outside the technology/programming area, who judge something without knowing if it's offtopic. Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 12:28
  • 2
    @HopefullyHelpful why it should be locked? Locking is (supposedly) reserved for cases very exceptional. There isn't any exceptional about this question. If it's exceptional that bunch of users answered instead of voted to close, then that's not exceptional because every other day happens.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 12:33
  • 3
    The problem with locking this question is that it serves as "evidence" that these kind of too broad questions are allowed here in 2017, which is not the case.
    – Adriaan
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 15:56
  • Note that the score of a post doesn't inhibit it from being deleted. Any question can be deleted at any score. The number of delete votes simply scales with the score, so the higher the score the more delete votes are needed to actually delete a post (I forget the exact formula) but before all of the downvotes this question attracted it would have needed like 1 or 2 extra delete votes, that's all. And it takes 10k to vote to delete a question, not 20k.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 15:57
  • 1
    The original question is fine and has concrete and useful answers. This answer, however, demonstrates a lack of understanding of the topic and why the original question is on topic. The answer then becomes an exercise in "must destroy that which do not understand," which is always painful to watch. Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:08
  • @Servy it does take 20k rep to delete a question that's been closed recently, however. It's not until a Q has been closed for a week(6 days?) that the requirement to delete drops to 10k. (As I'm sure you're well aware)
    – TylerH
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:18
  • @TylerH 20k rep is needed to vote to delete answers. 20k has nothing to do with deleting a question. A question can only attract delete votes when it has a score of -3 or less or has been closed for several days.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:20
  • @Servy You are partially correct in that the question has to have a score of -3 or lower, but 20k users can delete a -3 closed question immediately whereas a 10k user has to wait for it to be closed for at least 2 days. We see lots of del-pls requests in the SOCVR room that are 20k only because they are recent closures.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 16:23
  • @Adriaan Isn't it quite the opposite ? Locking something as offtopic stands as a beacon that this is offtopic. Otherwise you risk thousands of developers asking the same question over and getting it deleted. Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 10:16
16

Historical locks only really come in when you have delete / undelete wars over highly voted questions that no longer fit the site. This particular question was closed by the community after a bounty expired, and hasn't been subject to a dispute yet, so I see no need for any further action.

In fact, I think there might be a useful question in this, so I edited it to clean things up and maybe narrow it a bit. As far as questions go, I've seen a lot worse.

Despite your assertion that there are "lots of very broad and opinion based answers", I don't see that. As someone who has done work in this area, I see some useful information and specific processes described in these answers. I don't think the question or the answers warrant deletion, so if there's anything more to do, it's further edits to improve the scope of the question.

4
  • 4
    I'm probably one of the most "enraged" down-voter and closer but I still agree with you that this QA is about OK. OP asked for directions and accepted them as an answer because he's not just a lazy beginner asking SO a vague question. Sometimes you can't do better. Still, I wonder if programmers.so wouldn't have been a better fit. Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 11:38
  • 1
    @DenysSéguret don't ever think about that if you don't want to invite the ire of the Gnat to your house.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 30, 2017 at 18:36
  • And now it keeps being un/deleted all the time. God bless the meta effect :D
    – fedorqui
    Commented Jan 31, 2017 at 13:01
  • My previous comment was an irony, of course. I see that it currently has two meta effects: one to close/reopen it and another one to delete/undelete.
    – fedorqui
    Commented Feb 1, 2017 at 15:46

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .