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I've had three comments on this question, now the second one was removed - I assume in response to a flag by the user asking the question, as he was seemingly offended by me telling him to learn how to debug small scripts by himself. Two questions:

First, is it deemed inappropriate to call people out on crowdsourcing debugging requests? IMO it's helpful for both the site and the user to learn how to debug and to apply that knowledge before asking on SO - these types of questions are almost never helpful to anybody else, and if a user debugs their code it either leads to them not having to ask a question anymore, or arriving at a higher-quality question. Deleting my comment without giving me any feedback about it sends the signal that the powers that be see nothing wrong with SO being used for crowdsourced debugging of simple issues.

Second, this is probably only answerable by the mod who handled the flag: While the comment was certainly not sugarcoated, it was definitely not offensive. What was the specific reason for deleting it?

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    Moderator Note: Whether comments should be deleted that seem subjectively 'rude' or 'offensive' or 'not constructive' should be its own meta question. We're not doing anyone any good hashing it out here in the comments. With its own title and thesis, it would be able to reach more meta-users and even main site users and we could then get some consensus. So far these comments are teetering towards not being constructive. To effect change, let's start by having a constructive conversation. This topic deserves a broader meta question if you want to have that constructive conversation.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 16:44

2 Answers 2

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The first comment you posted was entirely appropriate. It pointed the user in the direction of their problem, and described the means by which they could have solved the problem on their own, which they can then apply to future problems to be able to solve those problems on their own.

The user was offended at being given this helpful information that he could have used, so a moderator decided to delete the comment providing helpful information to the author, rather than an unconstructive accusation by the post author about how he shouldn't have to learn how to debug his own program. (Because that's apparently useful information for everyone else to know, but how he could have debugged his program isn't?)

As for your second comment, it was certainly not rude or offensive. None of the statements were, in isolation, inappropriate or unconstructive. What it is is getting pretty off topic. While you're certainly right about what SO is about, and I certainly appreciate you trying to help this user understand how to better understand and use the site, you've gotten pretty far off topic by that point. Now, it shouldn't have been deleted alone, the post that it was replying to, the reply to this comment, and your final reply, all merit deletion on this basis. While you could take this to chat and discuss it there, I can't in good faith suggest that here as the user you are speaking with is very clearly not open to listening to your points, so you'd just be wasting your own time.

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    Trivia: moderators don't see who flags comments, or necessarily even see entire comment threads. If two comments in a thread get flagged, the default view shows... Just those two comments. Side-by-side. The UI there could use a lot of love.
    – Shog9
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 20:36
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Two of your comments were deleted after being flagged for moderator attention as being 'rude or offensive'.

I deleted them.

In the spirit of full disclosure, here were the comments:

The comments that were deleted

I said in a previous revision of this answer that there were a few reasons why your comments were deleted. These reasons have less to do with your specific comments than comments and comment flags in general. Because I'm not looking to split hairs, I'm revising this answer to give the 'real' answer. What I said previously still holds, but it holds less sway in day-to-day moderation than what I'm about to say.

We get a lot of comment flags. A lot. We see a lot of comments. We delete comments all the time.

I delete comments all the time. Probably borderline comments. I get two [practical] choices when a comment is flagged:

  • Delete
  • Dismiss (do nothing)

What happened here is that I saw the comments, didn't want to deal with saying, "Well this one that says 'Figure it out' is helpful, but the other one that says 'Figure it out' isn't helpful", and then deal with the OP saying, "Gosh, he's being mean to me", and that fall out; so I took the (at the time) easy path and nuked the comments.

I didn't even see they were from you. I generally don't look at who posts the comment, because I don't want that to color the action I take.

Comments are generally obsolete once they're read by their intended audience. That's a big reason to delete them -- they've served their purpose!

Once the OP has seen the comment, they're either

  1. Going to listen and fix it going forward,
  2. Going to not listen, in which case your comment wasn't for them anyway, it was so everyone else could see that you tried, but the OP didn't want to listen. ('You' in this case refers to the person who wrote the comment, not you. You're awesome.)

We see hundreds of comment flags a day, and they're generally the easiest flags to handle. Some moderators may choose to leave comments around, and some may choose to default to deleting comments. I default to deleting comments unless there's an exceptionally good reason to keep them.

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    He did tell the user more than just "debug your code yourself" though. He confirmed for him where his problem was, and described the approach that he should have used when debugging to discover/verify that problem. The second comment is also not rude or offensive at all. At most, one could argue that it is moving too far off topic, but if you felt that way, why did you not delete the other 2 comments that are also getting pretty off topic on the same thread of conversation?
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 16:12
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    They're not really constructive comments. One comment, sure So the fact that one of the comments wasn't really constructive means that you should delete the other one that is constructive? Really?
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 16:16
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    I'm asking you to justify why you feel it is appropriate to delete one comment that you feel is constructive merely because of the existence of a second, later, comment that you feel isn't constructive.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 16:34
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    Thanks for taking the time to answer, although I disagree with your conclusions. First of all, I did suggest something immediately actionable (use print statements to debug the code) which is "showing the next step"/ "telling them how to debug". And as I said in a comment under this question, I posted the later part to appeal to their productive lazyness, telling the user they are wasting more time by asking SO then it would take to solve the problem themselves. Also, I'd love to close questions like these, but AFAIK they are on topic if they're not too unclear or broad (which this wasn't).
    – l4mpi
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 16:47
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    @GeorgeStocker So adding one sentence to a comment that's not useful by its own, even if there are three other sentences that are useful and that support it, means that it should be deleted? So if I can find even one portion of a comment that doesn't add any value I should flag the comment so that the whole thing can be deleted?
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 16:50
  • I'm not saying it should be edited, I'm saying it shouldn't have been deleted. It's fine as is. It would be better with the edit, but it certainly doesn't merit deletion without the edit.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:06
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    @GeorgeStocker But the new user harassing the experienced user (in response to him going out of his way to try to be helpful, no less) is perfectly fine?
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:19
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    And you should have enough experience with the site to know that one of the core goals when the site was founded was to create a place where subject matter experts would want to come and post answers, in contrast with the majority of the site's competition that pandered to people coming to ask questions. The idea (and one that pretty much crushed all of SO's competition, I might add) was that people coming to ask questions will do what they need to in order to get answers, while experts will just leave if there is a place that treats them better.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:28
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    Deleting comments by a user for having the audacity to provide helpful information on how someone could have solved their own problem, out of fear that a new user who's posting insulting an unconstructive comments in response to someone going out of their way to help him might not like it here, is not in line with that core site goal.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:29
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    @Servy I can no longer engage with you on this subject. If you have specific complaints about my performance as a moderator, please take them up with the community team. It appears that any time I answer a question, you're there to criticize my actions. Not only do you disagree (which is OK), but you repeatedly leave comments to engage in further arguments about why I'm wrong and 'not doing my job'. For my own personal sanity, I can no longer engage in discussions in the comments with you, as you've taken it past 'clarification' and into a level that feels like harassment.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:33
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    Don't want to derail this further, but as Servy said, it's rather demotivating for me as an experienced user: I'm answering the question and telling the user what he should have done to solve this himself and how to do so. I furthermore tell them why to do that as it's not a good SO question (correct me if that's wrong, but it's just "find my logic error" instead of "find my typo"; hardly useful to keep around). OP responds with unconstructive comments, yet mine are deemed offensive and deleted. If there was an issue with my tone maybe a warning comment would be more appropriate than deletion.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:37
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    I'd say it's one of those "depends on how you read it" cases though @l4mpi. "Just learn to debug so you don't need to bother us" vs. "Learning how to debug might help you solve these problems on your own" ... it's not always easy to come across as you intended I guess.
    – Bart
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:40
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    A much more simplistic way to look at this: All comments should be considered temporary. @l4mpi your last comment you said you were answering the question - post it as an answer then, if someone disagrees with how something is worded, it can be edited and will be allowed to stick around. We don't have this flexibility with comments.
    – Joe
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:45
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    @GeorgeStocker I am aware of that, but I don't have an issue with their comments staying but with mine being deleted. I think we should teach users (new and old alike) that they should treat asking SO as a precious, depletable resource, and invest effort not only into asking but into not having to ask in the first place - not teach them they can simply flag people who ask them to please debug the code by themselves. BTW, would you look at the other comments more often for corner cases if would be easier to do so, e.g. adding a button to the flag UI to load them?
    – l4mpi
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:49
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    @Joe I'd argue that "please learn to debug, these types of questions are not a good fit for SO" should be a comment rather than an answer, as it does not have anything to do with answering the question. Disregarding that, posting something similar as an answer might have been a good idea in this situation but didn't cross my mind. I usually limit myself to comments on low-quality questions as most of them are close candidates (this one, while not exactly useful, wasn't) and not posting an answer which might be upvoted or accepted keeps it eligible for automatic deletion by the roomba.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Dec 9, 2014 at 17:57

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