191

As far as I understand the system downvotes should educate the users and help keeping the standards of questions (and answers) as high as possible.

Agreeing with a downvote and adding one more is understandable; it stresses a point. (If one was made..)

But where is the educational value of an anonymous first downvote?

Shouldn't an explanation be obligatory for the first downvote? A boilerplate reason is OK, but nothing at all doesn't seem helpful, imo.

And it's not as if downvoting privileges make us infallible; but how can there be a discussion, how can one even one reply, when there is nothing to reply to??

31
  • 174
    Don't forget to prohibit anonymous upvoting while you're at it, otherwise people won't be able to understand what's good about a post.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 19:34
  • 51
    "This question does not show any research effort; it is unclear or not useful" Commented Apr 21, 2014 at 0:28
  • 7
    See also Encouraging people to explain downvotes and Allow users to leave an anonymous comment when voting.
    – user456814
    Commented May 4, 2014 at 23:57
  • 3
    I've opened a detailed feature-request regarding explanations for downvotes, please see Revisiting Optional Explanations for Downvotes (on Questions).
    – user456814
    Commented May 5, 2014 at 0:10
  • 7
    @TaW and community in general : can we make a pool asking is downvote without comments is a good practice? Let the community talk.
    – Victor
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 2:41
  • 33
    Please stop trying to close a feature-request, just up or downvote it. Commented Oct 3, 2014 at 22:32
  • 17
    @Servy Not quite. Answers generally receive upvotes when they work. An anonymous upvote for an answer is not nearly as ambiguous as an anonymous downvote for a question. especially for a newcomer.
    – Info5ek
    Commented Jun 8, 2015 at 21:46
  • 13
    @Servy The two aren't equally impactful. Usually there are multiple answerers allowing us to infer the reason for the vote distribution among answers. The answerer who is downvoted can eventually see the difference between his answer and others. By definition, there's only one asker and one question, and little for the asker to compare with over time. Nothing is learned, and reputation is damaged.
    – Info5ek
    Commented Jun 9, 2015 at 0:20
  • 23
    An upvote works because there is basically "one way" to be "right", but there are many ways to be wrong, and if I want to improve, I need to know WHAT to improve. Otherwise, we could do away with downvotes and let anything not Upvoted vanish after a while. That would be better, as I see it. If NO ONE thinks something is useful, it is not worth keeping. Downvotes need some kind of reason so they can be corrected: they are in fact a statement of a sort. No statement is not a statement.
    – user4624979
    Commented Aug 17, 2015 at 20:11
  • 8
    @Plutonix: so which of the 3 is it? no research, unclear or not useful? Perhaps a correction could be made, if we knew what to correct. On the other hand, to upvote, it must have all 3. It is easier to be wrong than right.
    – user4624979
    Commented Aug 17, 2015 at 20:16
  • 4
    It's been discussed to death, many thousands of times, and it's been widely agreed that forcing comments with downvotes would be a net harm to the site. Stating the opposite, with nothing to support your position, in the face of an enormous amount of counter-evidence is just wasting people's time. You've shown that you have nothing meaningful to bring to the table here.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 16:55
  • 7
    Just a note for anyone interested in the above discussion: I asked Servy above what HIS top reasons were because of his vehement and, in my opinion, aggressively dismissive position. I was NOT asking what total research has been done on this topic, of which I have read a rather large amount actually ...and not yet seen an antagonist stance I find compelling. So, I was really hoping to find out something new or something that I may have missed ...but sadly, for reasons of his own, Servy is not apparently keen to put his rationale "out there" for public view.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 10:34
  • 9
    b) And no, it was not to help those who come across the question or answer, it was for the authors who should be helped to find out what should be improved. Most of the frevent oposition comes from folks who from the beginning to the present ignore the real issues and are sticking to the 'all is well' defense of the status-quo. This slightly paradox, as their real reason for down-voting surely is the keep the site cleaner from bad posts; but what could be better for this purpose than helping authors of bad posts by pointing to the problems of their post?
    – TaW
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 11:41
  • 5
    Btw: Just about any of the other StackExchange sites does suggest leaving a comment to explain a downvote. SO is different, mostly because those who have been engaged here the longest and the most often feel overwhelmed by shitloads of toally crappy posts. But the realization that the current down-voting system just won't help enough is obviously too much to bear.. - Btw: When I asked the question first I got extremely aggressive answers and was heavily downvoted. Today the vote count has reached a solid plus (+186 vs. -115 today); so: Do not ever take anything on Meta personally!
    – TaW
    Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 11:42
  • 8
    I agree with you @TaW. Because many of us actually care about this stuff, I actually feel personally 'attacked' when an answer I've provided in good faith is down-voted - it is not intended to mislead, it is what I thought was right. Obviously my answer may turn out to be wrong (there are smarter people than me), but I've tried to assist in a way that I thought was positive. If anything, the anonymous down-voting approach has made me less keen to stick my neck out for fear of down-votes. Commented Jul 4, 2016 at 17:19

7 Answers 7

97

But where is the educational value of an anonymous first downvote?

It tells me, the reader looking for a good answer, that I should look at the other answers first. I generally find this sort of education very useful.

Remember, the primary audience for these posts is folks looking for answers; yes, it can be used by folks writing answers as a way to educate themselves, but that's more of a nice side-effect than anything. If I'm pressed for time, I care a lot more about leaving some artifact for those readers (who might well include myself at some point in the future) than I do about explaining to an answerer why they're terribly, tragically wrong.

For more discussion of this matter, see: Encouraging people to explain downvotes

27
  • 22
    You do have a point here. Which is exactly why I suggested a boilerplate comment/answer/reason in my OP. There could be a number of checkboxes, for those pressed for time. Maybe there are - I have not yet downvoted anything beyond a comment. Unfortunately I have quite often found that folks are so pressed for time they don't even take the time to read the questions properly. Oh and I wasn't aiming so much at downvoted answers but at downvoted questions! My fault for not spelling that out.
    – TaW
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 20:04
  • 11
    We do have a few situations where we'll suggest boilerplate comments for answers, but they're all situations where the answer probably shouldn't have been posted at all - in other words, answers that are not even wrong but rather wholly inappropriate. What good is a boilerplate comment for an answer that is simply incorrect or unhelpful? Surely, if you're looking to educate, you would wish for someone to point out technical inaccuracies or suggest specific areas for improvement!
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 20:08
  • 8
    @Shog9, you didn't answer the question. What is the educational value for the one who DID the question and really try hard to make it good? In a more precise way, do you think that downvoting without comments is a good practice? BTW, i think this site is for find answer to question, not a warehouse of sorted acknowledge, why don't contribute with wikipedia instead if you are looking to organize and store entries of well and correct data.
    – Victor
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 3:00
  • 4
    'it can be used by folks writing answers as a way to educate themselves, but that's more of a nice side-effect than anything'.. for my comprehension of the human nature of education is not a side-effect is the very essence that makes us better, "by helping others, you help yourself"
    – Victor
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 3:08
  • 10
    When I vote, @Victor, I'm voting for the benefit of other readers like myself. If this also benefits the author of the post I'm voting on, great! ...But that's not why I'm voting. If I feel like taking the time to educate the author, I'll leave a comment.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 3:13
  • 2
    Okey for you @Shog9, but i do not share that point of view. It would be good to start a pool "do you think that downvoting without comments is a good practice?" Answers : Yes/No.
    – Victor
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 3:16
  • 2
    Then vote your conscience, @Victor. You should not let me or anyone else tell you how or when to vote.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented May 28, 2014 at 3:19
  • 5
    This answer completely misses the point. Encouraging is not a replacement for being mandatory. They are different levels, one is fundamentally b0rked, and the other is actually preventing the mess. Furthermore, votes have no value without reasons. Now, real reasons in comments do have values that tell the reader why that answer is wrong. Anonymous downvoting is a genius idea - although non-anonmyous is even much better - if it is only mandatory when you do not upvote a comment that already explains the flaw with the answer. Commented Jul 5, 2014 at 18:59
  • 10
    -1 and i'm not telling you why, figure it out for yourself
    – barclay
    Commented Mar 3, 2015 at 19:34
  • 4
    @Shog9 If I know about the serial downvoting script, then it is likely that I also know about voting fraud. Anyway, thanks for posting the link. Nonetheless, my whole point here is that if it is okay to vote as you like, then voting fraud should also be okay. A downvote by itself on a question doesn't help the asker in any way. Sure, a downvote tells him something needs to be fixed, but unless he knows what that is, he can only resort to random guessing, which doesn't usually make things better.
    – Masked Man
    Commented Mar 11, 2015 at 2:52
  • 6
    Your answer refers to downvotes on answers. Whatever point you may have had is greatly reduced by being attached to the wrong question. The question is about question downvotes. Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 1:38
  • 4
    @Shog9 "that they're terribly tragically wrong"? Sorry but that is both arrogant and complete nonsense. Are you saying that downvoters are somehow "more right" than the people they are downvoting? The entire point of SO is sharing knowledge. If someone is wrong, fine. If you can take the time to read the article, you can take the time to provide a reason. If you can't then you shouldn't be downvoting. I have no issue with anonymity, but it's both lazy and simply rude to downvote without comment and deny viewers the right to form educated conclusions.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:35
  • 12
    Just me, when I'm downvoting, @Pancho. That was a joke... Mostly. However, if your desire for downvote explanations is based purely on the assumption that the posts are correct and the downvoters wrong and you wish to argue with them... Then forgive me for not wishing to spend my entire day in endless Internet arguments. I remain convinced that it is more important to ensure readers are shown useful posts than it is to ensure every confused author has his hand held gently while he learns. Take some initiative and do your own research.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 19:37
  • 5
    Your logic appears to be "we want Q&A -> this requires questions -> therefore, all questions are an asset." However, this assumes that all questions can be answered and that all answers are useful, @Robert. In truth, there are many questions that are effectively unanswerable, many questions that are off-topic (and thus many questions whose answers are not useful to programmers). For example, we've no desire to encourage questions that are essentially rants about the government, nor questions which are incomplete or unclear. Not everyone is able to ask good questions; better to discourage them.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 16:59
  • 5
    No. A problem would be asking an actual, good question and having it rejected, @Robert.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Jul 20, 2016 at 21:05
42

One of the hallmarks of democratic voting is that it is inherently anonymous.

If votes were not anonymous it could allow you (as the person who got down voted) to go after the person who down voted in retribution.

17
  • 8
    Don't forget the flip side. Knowing who upvoted you could lead to fraudulent upvotes from you for the upvoter on said upvoter's posts.
    – codeMagic
    Commented May 19, 2014 at 18:08
  • 61
    @secretformula, Seems to me, a plausible compromise would be to allow anonymous comments -- that way, one could explain a downvote with no fear of retaliation.
    – yitwail
    Commented Aug 7, 2014 at 17:01
  • 1
    @secretformula, I like this compromise.
    – Josh
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 22:38
  • But it can also used in the other direction. If you downvote a answer/question with a comment to explain it the people how get the downvote can retribut without any commant. So the commant should be mandatory but without showing the username or we need a control system like "first answer" and so on for downvotes.
    – Jens
    Commented Mar 23, 2015 at 6:31
  • The challenge here is that the people who answer can vote on other answers. In a democracy, can the candidates vote? Commented Apr 22, 2015 at 19:07
  • But then if you explain your downvote you are not anonymous anymore => reinforce "bad" behavior of not commenting a downvote.
    – cmbarbu
    Commented May 7, 2015 at 17:18
  • This is helpful to me... Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 13:05
  • 1
    Hey, this is a private property not a gov.
    – usefulBee
    Commented Sep 2, 2015 at 19:20
  • 1
    What if this initial downvote remark was likewise anonymous?
    – user4842163
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 5:03
  • social media should not be anonymous. EVER. DOWNVOTED. :)
    – tony gil
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 12:54
  • 2
    There are 2 issues at play here: 1. Anonymity; and 2. Explanation. In my book Explanation should be required and Anonymity should be provided. I say this, as it makes no difference who down-voted, but it can be of immense value to both author and other viewers to know "why". (it could be anything from logic fault to spelling error to down-voter insanity). This allows everyone to understand why a post has dropped in ranking and also allows the author and others to comment to either reinforce or rebut. This way everyone learns and grows.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 23:37
  • Simple solution is to make the comment anonymous and then allow anyone other than the OP to mark it as constructive or constructive criticism. Marking as non-constructive would negate the downvote. Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 4:05
  • 2
    In a democracy, can the candidates vote? @ShaunLuttin - Yes. Yes they can, and they do.
    – BSMP
    Commented May 5, 2016 at 15:55
  • @BSMP I had no idea! Cool. Commented May 9, 2016 at 2:52
  • 1
    Requiring an explanation is difficult to enforce, anonymously or otherwise. Downvoters who don't want to explain themselves will just leave a string of garbage text to satisfy the arbitrary requirement. Also, adding this requirement dissuades downvotes in some small way. Downvoting is generally a positive thing: it helps people avoid incorrect, sloppy or harmful answers and keeps site quality high, so it's not something to be discouraged.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Mar 14, 2020 at 20:13
30

Votes (up or down) are not about the user; they are about the post, the material itself. They mark the material as being good or bad in some person's estimation. It's a "wisdom of the crowd" measure -- over time, and with lots of eyeballs, the chaff sinks and the hand-formed, hearth-baked bread made from locally-grown wheat is elevated. In that sense, one up- or downvote is just a single grain in the bucket. This applies as much to questions as to answers; a clear, findable question about an interesting problem that another person might encounter is the first step to getting an expert solution.

Granted that this doesn't remove the desirability of explanation; if the post can be improved, it's nice to know that as an author, and improving that post would make the site better. Sometimes a post can't be improved, though, or the voter just doesn't want to take the time to explain how and why.

A vote, representing an expert's judgement of the material, is still valuable as an indicator to future readers, even without explanation.

I should point out that this is one of the most-discussed Meta subjects in the history of Stack Exchange. There's a whole lot of discussion to be perused at Encouraging people to explain downvotes and the many linked questions.


On a connected note, I've found that, the majority of the time that I downvote and comment, I either get into an argument or find a string of not-so-mysterious downvotes on my own posts later that day. I'd really like the freedom to explain to someone why and how I think their post should be improved without them getting upset, but it just doesn't happen in my experience. I sometimes get attacked because I comment where someone else has downvoted. I don't know how to fix this problem, but requiring a comment isn't going to help (although an anonymous comment might work); it's going to make for fewer downvotes overall. That wouldn't be good.

11
  • 9
    "..the majority of the time that I downvote and comment, I either get into an argument or find a string of not-so-mysterious downvotes on my own posts later that day." Urgh. That is pathetic! Sorry to hear that; but SO is too big a place not to reflect all sorts of egos. "although an anonymous comment might work" Indeed! And again: a set of standard reasons would do nicely in most cases.
    – TaW
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 20:10
  • 1
    @TaW You only need to look as far as this question to find an example of a question in which it was downvoted, there were comments explaining the downvotes, and due to the repsonses of the question author and the other commentors the discussion quickly became unconstructive, to the point that a moderator had to nuke most of the comment thread. As sad as it is, the vast majority of people don't accept criticism constructively.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 20:13
  • 2
    I don't think boilerplate would work for downvote explanations, @TaW; the usual reason for a downvote is technical inaccuracy, which requires a very targeted comment: "You can't call smirk() on a Fraggle!"
    – jscs
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 20:14
  • 2
    @TaW As for anonymous comments, it helps with a few of the problems, but only a few, and it introduces its own set of problems. 1) If the comments are anonymous, people have no problem being rude, insulting, or offensive, because it's anonymous. 2) If the comment is replied to, further replies would need to be anonymous, else they'd name the downvoter. 3) You can still get into unconstructive arguments when the commenting is anonymous; it only really helps with the revenge downvoting, which is less common, in my experiences.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 17, 2014 at 20:16
  • "Votes (up or down) are not about the user; they are about the post, the material itself. They mark the material as being good or bad in some person's estimation." I totally disagree with this. Your profile is public and even used to promote oneself for jobs. People down voting without reason affects that profile, and future job opportunities, how much more personal can you get. If this is not true then tie points to questions / answers instead of profiles. - oh...I sense the weight of all the down votes already! Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 19:26
  • 2
    It's perhaps easier on a site like SO that something bit more subjective like Meta, but I generally explain my downvotes by sticking to the facts. It's actually rare that I downvote an answer, anyways, so when I do there's generally serious factual issues. I also provide guidance, i.e. if you remove this or change that, then I can reverse my downvote. Now, it's on the user if it sticks. Commented Mar 3, 2015 at 19:21
  • But the reputation is about the user!
    – cmbarbu
    Commented May 7, 2015 at 17:19
  • 2
    Votes (up or down) are not about the user : That's probably ideality, but not reality.
    – SQL Police
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 14:01
  • 1
    anonymous commenting on downvoting would definetely work.
    – tony gil
    Commented Dec 17, 2015 at 12:56
  • 2
    @Josh - Your answer is the most moderate, and as such, compelling argument I have seen for "non comment" downvotes, but I believe it fails on 1 critical point - which is your assertion that the evaluator is an expert. This is not a given. The 2nd problematic aspect for me is "that a vote without comment still has value". I agree with this, but a vote with comment would have yet more value. So why not force comments? I fail to see any downside, as long as optional anonymity is made available to the downvoter (for all the obvious reasons mentioned on this page)
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 16:42
  • 1
    Of course votes are about the user! They are the people writing the post. If you improve the person you improve their future posts. Every post can be improved. Very much a like art that's never finished - there's always a way to optimize an answer. Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 4:07
19

This may seem like a naive post from someone who isn't all that good at programming in the first place.

If someone like me, with my skill set comes on this site, we are doing it because we don't know how to do something or don't know any better. It's incredibly frustrating to find questions asked that are similar to your own query only to find them down-voted with no explanation and no answers. If the question is asking how to perform an operation in the wrong way, it would be nice to KNOW that...because I don't know any better?

So, for me, there is absolutely no educational value to such questions and only frustrates me more when I have to continue searching for the answer when it could have easily been answered in the first question or even forwarded to another similar post with an explanation of why I should/should not perform the action a specific way.

So if a down-voted question, with no reasoning for the down-voting, is on this site and it has no educational value then it seems to go against the core reason for this site existing. To me, the forced-comments request just has a negative connotation because it really is nice to know WHY my question is bad so that I can modify what I'm trying to do, look for a better way of performing the action or even modifying the question for clarity.

Just my $.02.

4
  • 1
    Well, if the downvoted question does not count as answered, it will be culled automatically soon enough... nothing to worry about. Commented May 6, 2015 at 1:40
  • 5
    @Josh You are so completely spot on, it's ridiculous. My compliments on an intelligent constructive answer.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 16:55
  • I'm with @Pancho - well said. Downvoting a question because it is "stupid" is totally backwards. Commented Jul 14, 2016 at 15:18
  • In programming I thought there were no stupid questions. Commented Mar 29, 2017 at 17:08
12

It's simply not realistic or consistent with human nature to require an explanation. You'll have to figure it out yourself, as in any other social situation. If your contribution got downvoted, it means that it is not looked upon favourably by the community at large. It does not fit in, it is wrong, it is misplaced, it is unwanted. That's the same as being shunned in any other social situation. If people won't talk to you in real life, or always act weird around you, or always avoid eye contact, or generally exclude you from their group, that's the same kind of feedback.

At some point you have to figure out yourself why exactly you don't fit in. Stack Exchange actually makes this somewhat easier than real life social interactions. Not only is the interaction a lot more limited and focused, but for your benefit a metric ton has been written about how to ask and answer questions. There are guidelines, blog entries, meta Q&As, and not least of all a heap of questions with attached votes and oftentimes comments you can use for reference. That's enough material to measure yourself on and compare yourself to. Figure out yourself where your weaknesses may lie and how exactly your contributions may be rubbing the community the wrong way. You're not simply walking up to random strangers and ask them why they won't talk to you either, you figure it out yourself over time.

23
  • 2
    +1: Spot on. People are so lazy, expecting everyone to do the learning for them. Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 9:22
  • 6
    This isn't always about writing bad quesitions, there are many instances where the way someone wants to perform an action or style an html page that aren't 'best practices' so the question gets down-voted. There is no educational value to the down-vote without the explanation of 'you should not do this, this is why'.
    – Josh
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 22:35
  • 10
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit This doesn't have much to do with people being lazy and expecting people to do their work. In fact that's an incredibly negative and arrogant view. Some of the best learning can be achieved when someone begins to understand how something isn't best practice or given a better way of performing an action and you cannot learn that if your question gets railroaded by a half of a dozen down-votes because of that and no comments saying so.
    – Josh
    Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 22:37
  • 1
    @Josh It seems like you didn't bother to read this answer, or perhaps you did not understand it. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 22:40
  • That being said, people downvoting because some approach in a question is not based on "best practices" is wrong and those people are wrong. Educating against that is a different problem though. Commented Sep 6, 2014 at 22:41
  • 16
    -1 - I disagree. In any tolerant society (and the IT society is one of the most tolerant) we alienate people we don't like by leaving them alone. Which is equivalent to not voting at all. If we like them we spend time around them. Equivalent to up voting. By this analogy down voting is actually downright abusive and is equivalent to beating people with stones. I therefore propose that if a reason cant be given for a down vote, then the down vote should not be allowed. Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 19:29
  • It's all the progress of society: we have schools and mentors. Schools to learn the rules and mentors for personal feed back. And, specially in higher education, both are becoming mandatory.
    – cmbarbu
    Commented May 7, 2015 at 17:22
  • 3
    From what I understand, not withstanding the commercial aspect, the purpose of SO is to uplift and enhance knowledge. Your answer does not adhere to this tenet and thus can only be incorrect.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 16:53
  • 3
    If people could figure it out themselves then they wouldn't come to this site now would they? Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 4:08
  • 3
    "Figure out yourself where your weaknesses may lie"? Based on ONE BIT (up/down) of information? Commented Jul 14, 2016 at 15:20
  • @Robert 1) It rarely is just one bit, more often than not you will find comments. 2) There are more than enough other questions to compare yourself to, and a metric ton of these do have comments. 3) There are many more metric tons of meta discussions which you can peruse if desired. – Let's not pretend there's absolutely nothing left to do for you when you receive a downvote.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 14, 2016 at 15:25
  • 2
    @deceze I'm not following you. 1. If there are comments, fine, that's what I am advocating. The discussion here is exactly about the (allegedly rare) situation where there are no comments. Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 13:07
  • @deceze 2. I don't see why examining other downvoted questions that would help. I ask what seems to be a well-researched, clear, and useful question, and it is downvoted without comments. Seeing downvoting comments on other questions MIGHT help, assuming you have never seen this before. But not necessarily, and (obviously?) I am discussing exactly that case. Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 13:07
  • 1
    ... And again, there is help being thrown your way if you care to follow the trail. The automatic close reasons point to many different resources you can peruse (help center et al). Eventually all roads point to meta.SO, where you can ask a specific question about a closure if you need to. SO proper is not the place to discuss such things in detail (again, SO has a specific focus, which is why we're cleaning stuff out in the first place). So you really do have a bunch of avenues to pursue, you're not dependent on voters explaining their votes.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented Jul 19, 2016 at 13:25
  • 1
    Sometimes your answer is a solution that worked for many people, but an expert suddenly crosses that answer and sees some bad practice in it (although it works). The expert downvotes and run away. How can the answerer figure the reason alone considering only an expert would be able to see it and many other people found it helpful? Even if they managed to figure, wouldn't it be easier if that expert guy just gave a hint? Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 5:09
1

Downvotes, that themselves are questionable, to questions that are well-formed and present valid issue should be explained or the voter should capable of being identified. Take for example this post Old esoteric C code. The member stumbled across and old K&R definition that he could not recognize and posted that question to SO. It was immediately downvoted anonymously. In this case, the only plausible reason being "you didn't search hard enough before asking". There is absolutely no educational value in situations like this where valid questions, albeit basic, are anonymously downvoted. Requiring a sentence explanation by the downvoter would not only provide informative information to the poster, but it would also give pause to the downvoter and an opportunity to assess whether the downvote is warranted in the first place. Just food for thought.

7
  • 4
    Since you can vote for whatever reason you like, there's no such thing as an "unwarranted" or "questionable" downvote (with the exception of targeting specific users). Commented Jun 25, 2014 at 19:03
  • 2
    I see and understand your point, but as SO becomes larger and larger, it just seems like there should be some type of control on the voting mechanism. I don't have the answer, and there is a lot of good discussion here and in the links to Meta on this page. If there becomes a greater need, at least there are a number of good ideas. The issue that I would like to see addressed in some manner is to minimize the discouraging nature of downvotes where there is nothing technically wrong with the question to begin with. Commented Jun 25, 2014 at 19:33
  • 1
    Well, there are two sides to it all. One thing I have since learned is to take is easy. BTW, the score on my post is almost equal by now: +36 / -44. Let's take it easy, the downvoters usually are well-meaning albeit often simply desperate, since they see so many changes that came with SO's growth and changes in a good thing must be bad.. Take it easy, just growing pains; the good old times were not so good either...
    – TaW
    Commented Jun 25, 2014 at 19:36
  • 1
    I guess I just asked for downvotes trying to participate and offer my observations here. It really is true No good deed goes unpunished. Commented Jun 25, 2014 at 19:48
  • 3
    Voting is different on meta: it's often used to indicate agreement/disagreement with a post. Considering that votes on meta don't affect your reputation, you can't exactly say you're being "punished;" people may simply disagree with your opinion. Don't get discouraged. Commented Jun 25, 2014 at 20:10
  • 2
    Thank you for that explanation. After considering the irony of the situation, I got a good laugh out the bulls-eye I had just painted on my back. Commented Jun 25, 2014 at 20:24
  • 1
    I completely agree with the premise of a mandatory downvote comment, but am of the opinion that the option of anonymity should be offered to the downvoter as the focus should be on the reason for the downvote, not the downvoter.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 16:58
-21

For a site designed to help programmers and share information, it seems elitist that you can say someone's question is bad, but not give proper direction on how to correct it.

And as for Shog9's answer, I have to say that your point is also what's wrong with this site:

"If I'm pressed for time, I care a lot more about leaving some artifact for those readers (who might well include myself at some point in the future) than I do about explaining to an answerer why they're terribly, tragically wrong."

If you are pressed for time, don't come on here to answer questions!

Stack Overflow is starting to seem like it has a country club attitude when it comes to downvoting questions... You can't enter our club, and we refuse to tell you why!

Here is the reason for my rant. If someone posts a question that doesn't meet others' idea of a properly asked question, then others immediately downvote it without telling why or how to correct it. People then avoid the question based on the downvotes. The user not understanding how to correct the problem then waits a bit and reposts the question which gets downvoted again. Eventually the new user feels this site wastes more time than it saves and just stops using it.

I see from time to time that someone misreads a question and gives a wrong answer. If someone reads a question wrong and decides to downvote it because they misread it, then others will avoid the question because it was downvoted as they are 'pressed for time' and only want to get fresh points from new questions that aren't downvoted.

13
  • 11
    Not everyone is here to answer questions. Even for those users who are, that may not be the only thing they do on the site. Software developers and engineers use Stack Overflow for work all the time. If they come across a poorly written or otherwise unclear question while trying to find an answer to their problem, then they're probably going to downvote it, and it's likely that they won't have time to leave a comment (they're on the job, after all). I see nothing wrong with that.
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 17:51
  • 10
    And the fact that people 'don't see a problem with that' lets the problem continue. If you don't have time, don't touch it. Seems simple enough when related to the possibility of the user with 'no time', to misread the question and improperly downvote it.
    – Deanie
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 18:08
  • 4
    Do you actually have any hard evidence that, in general, users are consistently misreading questions before downvoting them?
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 18:11
  • 3
    Why would it have to be consistently?!? Yes everyday I see someone re-answering/editing their response because they misread it. This shouldn't happen. And people shouldn't be like... "it doesn't happen all the time, so to hell with those few that it does happen to."
    – Deanie
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 18:13
  • 7
    Sorry, I don't find personal anecdotes to be convincing, hard evidence, not on a site with 3.4 million registered users and 7000-7500 new questions per day. Maybe give a few example links in a non-rant, and then we can try having a productive conversation about that.
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 18:15
  • 17
    When someone is coming and asking for free high quality assistance in solving a problem that they have the burden is on them to ask a quality question. The onus is not on experts volunteering their time and expertise to explain to you why your question is not a good one. If getting an answer is important to you, take the time to learn how to write a quality question. If it's not, don't expect others to do that for you as well. If you want to have the expectation of people to do you work for you then you'll have to pay for that right, rather than expecting it of volunteers.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 15:32
  • 1
    @Cupcake - I have hard evidence. When I posted my question on this site. It was downvoted within 3 seconds of appearing. The person downvoting could not have even read the first paragraph. So what Deanie describes can and does happen and it is unfair to the people who do take the time out to ask and answer questions. Even if they are asking questions, they are contributing knowledge to the site by giving experts the opportunity to add value. So I totally agree, if you don't have time to read the q or a, you don't have right to vote on it. If this is not clear abuse then what is? Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 19:44
  • @Servy - Asking for a reason to down vote is not the same as asking someone to improve the quality of the question. Improving the quality of a question or answer takes time to read, time to review and time to edit and explain. There is a big difference between taking the time to improve someone else's work and giving a short reason why it is not good. - However I do agree that the burden should be on the asker to ensure the quality is high. This is why SO has rules regarding this and the community to watch for it. Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 19:48
  • 10
    @FrancisRodgers And yet you don't have the right to demand either of a volunteer. If they want to take the time to help someone determine what's wrong with their question they can, and many people choose to, but they are not obligated to.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 13, 2014 at 19:52
  • 4
    Three seconds can actually be enough to determine a post is bad, especially if you are reading many. Still, I doubt it was really quite that fast... Commented May 6, 2015 at 1:46
  • 1
    @Deanie - Till recently I would have thought you were 100% correct ...but then I was educated that downvoters are always right. They're up there in the deity category, and Gods don't have to explain to mere mortals the "Why" of it. You've clearly been a naughty person challenging the authority of the Gods ...which is why you're at the bottom :o)
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 17:03
  • 1
    @cupcake - just an observation that it would be a lot easier for Deanie to provide the hard evidence you are requesting if downvoters explained their rationale. Effectively, you are asking Deanie to "breathe in a vacuum" ...so ironically you are in fact confirming his position as correct.
    – Pancho
    Commented Feb 9, 2016 at 21:06
  • @user456814 "Do you actually have any hard evidence that, in general, users are consistently misreading questions before downvoting them?" Ironically, the issue being mooted here makes your question impossible to answer! Commented Jul 14, 2016 at 15:25

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .