226

One of the best friendly-fication features on Stack Overflow was this change to duplicate handling, that allows users to take some ownership of the process: New UI encourages askers to confirm or dispute duplicate votes

However, in light of the recent blog post calling to make Stack Overflow more welcoming, I think this system can be improved to even further decriminalize duplicate incidents, and provide even more ownership to the user.

Here are the proposed changes:

  • Reward users for accepting the original question. They just solved their problem, and admitted their mistake in duplication. That is a positive event. Give them a +2 rep bonus, like they get for accepting an answer.
  • Give the user ownership and credit for marking their own duplicate. Right now it shows that Community♦️ closed their question. Instead, create a big, happy, welcoming, positive green box, that shows they found an answer, rather than their question was closed by big bad wolf power users.

    enter image description here

    vs

    enter image description here

    To lurkers and other visitors, this shows users getting helped and finding solutions, rather than users being moderated on. That makes the site appear much more friendly and helpful.

  • Users should be given the opportunity to accept an original question even after the five vote tally has been reached. Sometimes the close voters kill a question before the user checks it again.

  • Naturally, the user should also see a friendly reminder to try searching beforehand. If they post duplicates too fast a furiously, this reminder could be upgraded to a very stern warning about excessive duplicates.

  • Edit: As discussed in the comments, duplicates that are poorly written or showed absolutely no research effort (I.E. Googling the title finds the dupe) will still be handled, like other low effort behavior, with downvotes. Duplicates are not inherently bad, so the process should not be inherently hostile.

Some may argue this encourages bad behavior, but for first time users, duplicates are a completely innocent mistake, and even power users accidentally post duplicates from time to time. It's something that happens, and vilifying it just breeds hostility.

Edit: Some additional specifics were clarified in the comments. Particularly:

  • If a question is re-opened, the user loses the +2 rep. They clearly didn't check the other post in such a scenario, and therefore do not warrant being rewarded.
  • If a question is re-closed, the user can look at the new duplicate and accept/decline it.
  • If multiple questions are provided, the user should be able to pick between them, and change at any time. The rest of the questions can be listed in the info box, like they are currently. This also helps if a Gold tag user edits the list.

A possible requirement for the rep bonus is that the question as a positive score. I don't think this is really necessary, since the downvotes will take care of removing the rep anyway, and it makes the whole system more complicated, which is not welcoming (This is 2 rep, not a winter bash hat. There shouldn't be an entire list of requirements involving the phase of the moon :P).

35
  • 11
    To address the above comments about how it currently works: If a gold badge user marks a question as a dupe, it's closed. If the author accepts that it's a dupe, it's closed. If the author rejects that it's a dupe, literally nothing happens and the question continues to be voted on by the rest of the community.
    – Rainbolt
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 20:40
  • 29
    We just need to make sure that we don't reward bad duplicate questions. But that's what downvotes are for. We'll just downvote all the bad duplicates to counteract the new reputation reward for accepting a duplicate decision. This makes us appear friendlier to the good duplicates and meaner to the bad ones.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 20:50
  • 7
    @ryanyuyu What is a bad duplicate ? In my opinion there is no bad duplicate just bad question. I like duplicate that increase the chance that a new user don't ask another question that already been asked, specially because newbie don't know what to search, and other newbie create nice duplicated for them because they talk the same newbie language.
    – Stargateur
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 20:53
  • 12
    I could see this being mildly abused. Some people would create questions that they know are duplicates, just so they could farm that +2 rep per question. Probably (hopefully) an edge case, but still worth mentioning IMO.
    – Mage Xy
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 21:11
  • 9
    @Stargateur a bad duplicate is exactly that. A bad question that also happens to be a duplicate. I don't want to reward bad questions that happen to get lucky that there was a duplicate. For example, bad questions that are duplicate to the canonical java NPE.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 21:30
  • 17
    @Kobi no. We really shouldn't. If you have a good answer, post it on the dupe target. The intent of duping is to have all the answers in one place. If you dupe and still answer, users will have to navigate to 4 or 10 questions to get the best answer. This is exactly what duplication was meant to stop. Rewriting the answer with the OP's variable names isn't you doing them a favor. If they have trouble applying/understanding the answer, chat or comments should suffice
    – Patrice
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 21:45
  • 2
    @ryanyuyu I didn't say that bad question shouldn't be downvoted, but effort from OP to acknowledge that the question was a duplicate is a good thing.
    – Stargateur
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 21:46
  • 3
    I'm going to point out, that as people have suggested, really stupid duplicates like those mentioned by @usr2564301 can be delt with via heavy downvoting. The 2 rep they can get from this system will be decimated by losses from down votes. The point is the user is not inherently misbehaving by posting a duplicate, and therefore the system should not be inherently hostile. Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 21:54
  • 6
    Ah right. Your point is, it is not bad to post a question that turns out to be a duplicate (and it cannot be said often enough that a good duplicate is a good thing!), but having done no research is a perfectly good reason for downvoting. I agree with that!
    – Jongware
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:00
  • 3
    @Laurel If the question is re-opened, I think we can just ignore that the OP selected a duplicate, and the rep is removed (they clearly didn't do their job properly). If it is re-closed, they can choose again. I feel like a gold tag user editing the duplicate list kind of behaves the same way as users out voting an accepted answer. It can still show the user found their answer at question XYZ at the bottom in green, but the box at the top can list all the links, as it already does. Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 23:02
  • 4
    I really like this idea. It is actually sometimes a long time later that you find the same question worded differently and this would reward a user for coming back and mark their question.
    – Elin
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 23:59
  • 12
    "Decriminalize" is an unfortunate choice of words here.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 15:03
  • 5
    @TaW I agree with the core of what you say: it should be a non-issue. However, it seems we consistently have trouble in getting this point across, which is why it is worth looking for ways to change how duplicate closure is presented, specially to new users.
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 15:22
  • 4
    [1/2] @Jean-FrançoisFabre Rewarding the closer is tricky business because it might encourage arbitrary closures. I don't see a comparable risk with rewarding the asker. A +50 rep cap in style of the +1000 one there is for suggested edits would make the absolute rep gained through this method relatively insignificant. Also, as River points out elsewhere, a new user trying to exploit this by posting a run of bad duplicates will likely end up question banned long before hitting the cap.
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 21:13
  • 4
    [2/2] @Jean-FrançoisFabre Finally, accepting an answer to a terrible question gives +2 to the asker under the status quo, so I don't think the feature would change much in the grand scheme of things.
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 21:14

8 Answers 8

86

I agree that rewarding users who voluntarily help close their useful, innocent duplicates would be good.

From personal experience, I know it can be devilishly hard to find dupe targets, even for common problems, due to variations in jargon, etc. (One reason why most dupe-hammerers ought to be sainted IMO.)

But to reduce abusing this system, I propose the following requirements:

  1. The OP only gets the 2 point reward if/when the question gets a positive score.
  2. Some kind of rate-limit and/or rep-limit applies. Maybe one or more of:

    • Only applies to users once per quarter.
      and/or
    • Only applies to users with less than 100 rep.
8
  • 16
    I like the idea that it has to have a positive score, as it answers the problem I had — people will start to intentionally post duplicates to gain rep. One question, what happens if the score is positive when the dupe is accepted, but later drops down to zero or negative?
    – jhpratt
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 2:21
  • 2
    @jhpratt, I'm fine however such an edge case is handled (retract, or be "nice" and let the user keep). My druthers is: have the devs do whichever is easiest to implement. Also: remember that I also propose a rate limit. This makes special cases and abuse much less of a problem. Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 2:34
  • 9
    This may not be as endemic on SO as it is on MSE but I see a lot of people on MSE "punishing" the OP for not doing research to find a dupe by downvoting it... so your first stipulation may (on some sites?) be difficult to achieve. Could you address whether you see that as a concern here?
    – Catija
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 3:31
  • 2
    @Catija, I think we need to see hard statistics on whether downvoting good duplicates is really a problem. I have seen several MSE questions get both a positive score and closed within hours (I may have even participated in a few). Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 3:42
  • 3
    I don't like the positive score part, as some duplicates (while decent questions) still get downvotes just because one of the comments said "Possible duplicate of [...]"
    – kockburn
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 9:09
  • 1
    @jhpratt I'm unclear as to how you see this being abused. If a new user does it they will be question banned after just a few questions. If a more experienced user does it, they will get 2 rep a question... That's a trivial amount, and it requires that not a single person seeing the question thinks it worthy of a downvote. To farm rep off of this, you need to write limited, high quality duplicates that won't get downvoted. Is that really such a big deal?
    – River
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:13
  • I don't really see the point of the rate or rep limiting - 2 rep is easily canceled out with a single downvote and users with higher rep are less likely to care about such small rep amounts. I'd rather vote for not having it at all than having it have such limits. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:33
  • So your plan is to have 2 accounts. One opens stupid questions, the other suggests a duplicate, the first accepts. Every cycle they earn 2 rep (or an average of 1 rep each). You are aware that you can already (a) ask question, (b) answer question, (c) accept for 2 rep right? Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:40
28

As a proud hammer wielder, I really like all of the suggestions here. Good duplicate closures are a win-win situation, and it is worthwhile to make it more likely for them to feel as such for all involved parties.

A couple additional remarks:

  • The first two bullet points are close to a suggestion made in the last paragraph of this question, namely, making it possible to accept an answer that belongs to a dupe target.

  • On the +2 rep bonus: Ideally, I would like if it wasn't limited, thus giving it full parity with the current +2 acceptance bonus. I do see how rep farming might become a problem, though, making some limit advisable. I suggest the limit could be less strict than the ones put forward in Brock Adams' answer: award the bonus only up to 50 points accumulated in this manner (analogously to how rep from suggested edits is capped at 1000 points).

    • Another possibility, in addition to the cap mentioned above, would be only awarding the bonus for questions with non-negative score. I hazard, though, that the cap, alongside the usual moderation mechanisms, might be enough to mitigate abuse without this additional restriction.
9
  • 9
    I really dislike the "non-negative score" part. There is a huge difference between not downvoting a marginal dupe, and upvoting a good one. Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 3:47
  • 2
    @BrockAdams I agree there is a big difference, but I don't feel it needs to be reflected in this specific feature. As I said above, weren't it for the potential for abuse I would be happy if this mechanism had parity with the usual accepting of answers (which gives +2 to the OP regardless of anything else, as long as a self-answer isn't involved).
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 3:52
  • 3
    I think this is more in line with what acceptance rep for answers is for, and with a cap like 50 it's hardly abusable
    – Passer By
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 11:33
  • 5
    @PasserBy In fact, I now feel the 50 rep cap would make the non-negative score clause unnecessary. (I won't edit the answer to reflect that to avoid invalidating any of the upvotes it got.)
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 14:54
  • @duplode you know that someone else could edit it... :D
    – Cœur
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 15:22
  • @Cœur Hypothetically, if I declined to roll back such an edit, would it be ethically the same than doing the edit myself? I feel a little dizzy... :)
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 15:27
  • I think I found a way to edit the answer without invalidating past upvotes.
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 19:25
  • 1
    I would rather tie the cap to the user's reputation, e.g. below say 50 in reputation you can maximum earn +2 rep bonus for this, 50-100 +4 etc (possibly with an extra "start bonus", e.g. say +8 below 50, +10 for 50-100 etc).
    – hlovdal
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 14:13
  • @hlovdal This is a good idea, too.
    – duplode
    Commented May 1, 2018 at 2:30
25

I am totally in favor of this system.

I think it clarifies that duplicates in and of themselves aren't a bad thing, especially for new users. There's a reason there's so many answers on meta that have to point this out to new users asking why their question was closed.

However, I disagree with the other answers here saying that we need some requirements/rep-limiting/rate-limiting to prevent rep farming and general abuse, for several reasons.

  • We already have a rep-limiting system, in the form of downvoting. Keep in mind, the rep bonus is only +2. This means that rep-farming can be prevented by any single user with 125 rep, as it only takes a single downvote to counter the gained rep.

  • We also already have a rate-limiting system, in the form of question bans. If too many of your question are closed (including as duplicates), then you become unable to post more questions. The one thing we might need is warnings before the ban so users know that posting too many duplicates is frowned upon.

With these two systems already in place, I struggle to see how giving a +2 rep bonus for accepting a duplicate will have any potential for abuse.

If anyone has a theoretical scenario where abuse is possible, please share it, as I haven’t seen any example that can withstand the systems above.


I think this accepting of a duplicate should be equivalent to accepting an answer.

This would also probably be the easiest variation of this system to implement. Simply treat the duplicate target as an additional answer to the duplicate question.

Then it can be accepted just like any other answer. If the question is reopened, it's the same as if this answer were deleted. This avoids any edge-cases as it simply reuses the reward system for accepting an answer normally, where behavior is already well-defined.

10
  • 4
    @BrockAdams the whole point of this is to show users that posting a duplicate isn't inherently bad. Obviously this is needed as even you seem to think otherwise. Thus no bad behavior is being rewarded, as posting a duplicate isn't bad behavior. And I fail to see how this creates any more work, bad questions are still downvoted, excessive duplicates will result in a question ban, this is just the status quo.
    – River
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 17:55
  • 1
    If it doesn't get upvoted it is not a good post and should not be rewarded. I never said all duplicates were bad. I've upvoted dozens of them myself. But most duplicates are just lazy clutter by users who couldn't be bothered with 30 seconds of searching. We don't need anything that encourages that more. Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:24
  • @BrockAdams "If it doesn't get upvoted it is not a good post and should not be rewarded." so you're against the current +2 for accepting an answer as well?
    – River
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:25
  • @BrockAdams twist the argument? You just said a post without upvotes is not a good post. Were you saying this only in regards to duplicates? What justifies that? All that aside, I'm trying to get you to see that accepting your question as a duplicate should be no different than accepting an answer posted to your question directly.
    – River
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:29
  • 3
    @BrockAdams I think the point you're missing is that we're not trying to encourage duplicates, simply stop discouraging them. An occasional duplicate is perfectly fine (especially for a new user, it can be a useful teaching moment). And if it gets to be more than that, there are already systems in place to take care of it automatically.
    – River
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:37
  • 1
    No, "we" are trying to discourage bad duplicates and reward useful duplicates. Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:39
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – River
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 18:47
  • 9
    I don't see this as rewarding bad behavior. They admitted they posted a duplicate and helped close the case. That is good behavior and should be rewarded, regardless of whether they wrote a good question. That is handled separately. In addition, +2 rep is small enough it won't outweigh the downvotes of a bad question, making rep farming virtually impossible. Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 19:51
  • I like it though I still think a duplicate that can be found by copy pasting the title into google(lot's of those) should be punished and definitely not awarded. Not sure how to address it though. Maybe making it harder to ask questions and improving the search when you ask will mostly solve it?
    – Oleg
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 10:23
  • 1
    @Oleg that’s still easily done with downvotes. If even one person downvotes that poorly researched dupe (such posts usually get more than one), it will cancel any bonus.
    – River
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:10
17

Is this really mostly about presentation? Marking as a dupe really means

Congratulations! There's already an answer to your question right here. Aren't you the lucky one! We're sorry our search didn't lead you to your answer immediately and you were forced to write a question. Thanks to you our search will now get better as our bots now have more data to connect questioners to the answers they seek!

It sounds more like winning the jackpot than a criminal activity. You didn't have to wait for someone to write a new answer as an answer already existed.

Maybe the issue is one of wording. "Closed as Duplicate" sounds like you did something bad. Sometimes it does feel bad to answerers especially if they're the one that put up the existing answer and it feels like the questioner didn't bother to spend time finding it. On the other hand we all know that SO's search could use a lot of TLC and rarely finds dupes. We also know that people use different words and even Google can't always find the dupes. In fact I know when I'm searching for an old answer to reference I fail probably up to 1 out of 3 times.

In any case, better wording could go a long way to helping it not feel like a scolding.

4
  • 1
    A good idea but I cannot help thinking that overly positive close reason may then also be applied to Too broad and Off-Topic ("Thank you for your excellent question! We normally do not consider questions on milking machines a good topic for our site, but we will keep your suggestion in mind as a possible extension, as a broader scope may attract even more useful questions!")
    – Jongware
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 16:19
  • 2
    @usr2564301: Your example is unfortunate, because you'd be surprised just how much software there is inside a milking machine. But I know what you were trying to express. Next, gman's "overly positive close reason" didn't sacrifice the principles of the site. Irony again, because it is possible to do the same for Off Topic, the difference being that instead of "we will consider a broader scope" the message should be "we add new sites to the Stack Exchange network and will consider opening one for your topic".
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 17:17
  • 1
    @BenVoigt: ... 😳. But I also realize now that I have been saying all along that "a good duplicate is a good thing", so a (slightly more) positive message is appropriate. Too Broad and Off Topic are not 'good things', and matter-of-fact pointing that out is good enough for me.
    – Jongware
    Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 17:27
  • 4
    Indeed, this is 100% a presentation suggestion. Being friendly while maintaining rules usually comes down to how things are communicated. Commented Apr 29, 2018 at 19:53
0

Counter proposal regarding the 2 reputation:

Accepting an answer and accepting a duplicate are treated as equivalent and we only reward a user for doing either (not both).


  • Increasing the amount of free reputation per question seems like a step in the wrong direction to me. It does make sense to incentivise things like accepting answers and duplicates, but we don't want to incentivise simply asking a question too much, with no regard for quality.

  • Currently we're actually incentivising askers to not close their question as a duplicate until they have an answer, because that way they can accept it and get 2 reputation. This would address that possible problem.

  • Accepting an answer and accepting a duplicate are somewhat logically mutually exclusive (even if you can do both) - the thing that helped you most is either an answer or it's a duplicate.


Counter-counter proposal regarding the 2 reputation:

Have it be a one-time reward for accepting a duplicate for the first time.

3
  • I think, like the plus 2 rep for editing a post, there should be a rep cap where there is no bonus, but probably a really low one, i.e. 50 rep. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 17:28
  • As far as not receiving rep if an answer is accepted, I think that might be to complicated. 4 free rep out of a question is still to small to to provide any serious abuse opportunities. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 17:30
  • @Dukeling I'm not seeing the difference between your counter proposal and my answer above. Is there some subtly I'm missing, or did you overlook my answer?
    – River
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 18:52
0

The duplicate question problem is largely a result of the very poor searching system that Stack Overflow employs.

I know users that routinely use outside searching tools to search questions, because the native one is so bad. If a new user writing a duplicate question would see the similar question appear when they were writing it, then many duplicate questions would not even be filed. Fix/improve the search system!

2
  • I never use the internal search. The results produced by external, general purpose search systems are much better.
    – user9455968
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:49
  • 1
    I'll need some convincing to believe that a large percentage of people search or look at potential duplicates prior to asking. And search is hard - an entire company is built around Google search, expecting the same search quality on any other non-search-focused site is unreasonable. Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 14:07
-1

Instead of giving rep for accepting duplicate link, a (new) badge seems to be more natural. Something like "I help the site to organize things".

It could be "one-time" badge awarded only for first accepting duplicate link. (Yes, many SO beginners have a high chance to be awarded by this badge. But, assuming the badge's description will be informative, having this badge could be compared with the Informed badge.)

"One-time" badge is absolutely protected from abusing.

Or it could be a "per-question" badge, awarded for every accepted duplicate.

In that case, it should be restriction for the quality of the question to be able awarded by this badge. E.g., the question should have +3 score or more.

This would be useful for questions, which covers some specific, but quite a common problem, which in case covered by "monstrous" duplicate question (like What is an undefined reference/unresolved external symbol error and how do I fix it? one).

While abusing with "per-question" badge is possible, consequences of this abusing are not so hard: there is no problem in one having 10 additional bronze badges (and he/she should have 10 questions with +3 score for that, which is by itself a good contribution to the site).

-16

In addition, when the user accepts the other answer and gets their green box, all the rep loss from down-votes on their question should be cancelled. They accepted their mistake and corrected it, no need to punish them for that.

8
  • 8
    Being a duplicate and being a poor question are different things -- ideally, a question should not be downvoted just because it is a duplicate. While might be tricky to get everyone to take that into account, invalidating the downvotes probably isn't a good way to deal with it.
    – duplode
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:21
  • Better to err on the side of being nice, rather than punishing wrongness at all costs.
    – shogged
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:27
  • 1
    @shogged If a dupe can act as a "get out of downvotes free" card, the net effect would be that people would stop downvoting altogether. That is an equally undesirable thing
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:28
  • Why is it undesirable? The outcome is the same, the question is closed and marked as dupe, the questioner understands the primary issue... The way it is now, there is no way to know if the down-votes are for the dupe or the quality of the question anyway.
    – shogged
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:32
  • 1
    So, why are you so down on downvotes? I get that no one likes negative numbers, but you really seem to have a hatred for them? Do you take them as personal insults? Do you have suggestions on how we can make it more clear that downvotes are about the post and not the person? A lot of newer users do seem to take them as personal insults, even if you don't, and ideas on how to make it more clear that they are not would be great!
    – Kendra
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:45
  • If you do have ideas one how to help with this, please, chime in over on my question!
    – Kendra
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 13:59
  • Down votes have a massive effect on new user's perception of and enjoyment of the site. If you want new users to participate, try not immediately punishing minor mistakes.
    – shogged
    Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 14:01
  • Canceling the downvotes will result in users being able to post terrible badly written lazy duplicates without fear. Such a system would be so ripe for abuse Commented Apr 30, 2018 at 17:27

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .