64

I know that we have a similar proposal detailed in Enable Optional Anonymous Reasons for Downvotes on Questions and it covers a lot of similar topics, but I'm seeing a noted increase in use of idownvotedbecau.se comments and to me that means that since there isn't currently a site enabled way to provide quick, anonymous feedback beyond a bare vote, users are forgoing the anonymous benefit and embracing the macro-oriented approach. The fact that we are seeing an increase in use, to me, means that we might be hitting a tipping point.

I'm asking this question because we should probably get ahead of the usage of idownvotedbecau.se comments. Take a stance on whether they should be used or not. If we embrace them, can we curb some of their negative implications (terseness, revenge targetting, off-sited-ness)?


I am making assumptions about why users leave links to idownvotedbecau.se based on statements from this question: Is idownvotedbecau.se recommended? and from my own observations:

  1. Users don't want to have write long comments detailing why they downvoted something over and over again because it can get exhausting repeating themselves.
  2. Related to 1, it gets people to actually state why they are downvoting because it is so easy.
  3. The content contained in the link isn't limited to a 600 character, 13pt font, comment block.
  4. As Jon Ericson said,

    It encourages people to follow through on downvoting rather than just leaving a comment.

  5. It can in fact help the target of the link to understand why they are being downvoted.

Right now Stack Exchange already puts up big messages whenever question gets put on hold, closed, or shifted into some other final state. These links to idownvotedbecau.se are in essence a less obvious form of those messages. Would it make sense to embrace these messages and possibly give posters feedback earlier about why they are getting downvotes with a site integrated feature?

I'm thinking that whenever I downvote a post, I am given the option (i.e. not mandated) to give a reason from a list why I downvoted. Then, a message below the post is displayed detailing the current reasoning behind their downvotes would appear. I would say that this should probably be visible only to the poster.

This does a few things:

  1. Since it is integrated directly into the site, we can keep it anonymous. One of the pain points of posting idownvotedbecau.se comments is that the recipient has a direct way to know who downvoted, get huffy, and retaliate.
  2. It gives feedback to the poster sooner rather than later so that they can fix their post before it gets closed or shifted to a state that is more difficult to recover from.
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  • 42
    This I like. Anonymous optional feedback that can actually help new users improve their answer.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:07
  • 4
    I really liked the original proposal, and despite the very valid observations from Shog9 in that post and others elsewhere about the actual need and usefulness of comments vs. "just the votes" in improving posts, would like to have a feature like this. Again, very much optional, completely anonymous (and without a "custom" box, so there is no need to moderate any feedback)
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:10
  • 9
    This was tried before, it did not work out well. Search for "what stack overflow is not". Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:20
  • 12
    If it's optional, OK, I don't have an objection to it apart from the effort involved vs. reward issues. By 'optional' here, I mean a profile checkbox/flag that prevents the list from popping up at all, and so preserves the current 'One click downvote', it that is what the user prefers. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:20
  • 6
    Often, for instance, the downvote reason would not be in the list and under the 'Be nice' policy, could never be. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:25
  • 1
    @KevinB it's fairly recent, yes. C, C++, PHP, Android - the usual suspects. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:27
  • 1
    @KevinB It's recent, but I figured we should get ahead of it now.
    – zero298
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:28
  • 2
    I don't see it used very often, and I dislike that it seems to encourage non-anonymous vote explanation, IMO. But I did like the original proposal. It should be anonymous as votes, but feedback only visible to the asker.
    – yivi
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:30
  • 21
    personally, i'm against this because I don't downvote to provide clarification and reasoning to the poster. I leave comments for that purpose. Not to explain my downvote, but to ask for clarification or to request improvement. Telling the user I don't think their question is useful or they didn't do enough research isn't anywhere near as useful to the user as a standalone link to the docs proving said failed research, or a comment asking for a more simplified example.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 15:31
  • 6
    I find it a nice idea, but I wonder how a user's behaviour might change just by observing that their reasons to downvote are not listed. The current reasons are third-party, but once such a list is made official, even when feedback is optional, can it be misinterpreted as an authoritative, exclusive list of reasons to downvote?
    – E_net4
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 16:22
  • 5
    There's a shog9 post somewhere on meta where they talk about their (and others) observation's that giving a reason for a downvote actually seems to get worse results because people just argue with the reason instead of fixing their question. I saw it just the other day, I'll try to hunt it down when I have some time.
    – mbrig
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 16:38
  • 6
  • 4
    This is a solution to a problem that is caused by people misusing comments.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:58
  • 5
    @KevinB Right now, the only vehicle to bind a reason to a downvote is comments. Giving a reason for a downvote shouldn't be mandatory. Commenting on a question because you downvoted shouldn't be mandatory. Your downvote should always be anonymous. It doesn't matter if this is a problem caused by people misusing comments, because as of right now, the only means to provide a directed reason for a downvote is in the comments.
    – zero298
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 19:04
  • 2
    FWIW, my current policy: comment first, and only downvote if the poster doesn't respond adequately after a suitable time interval. Unless the post is an unsalvageable mess, in which case I just downvote, with a possible return to del-vote. On clueless newbie questions that are potentially fixable, I tend to say "You're probably getting those downvotes because of (whatever)". But of course newbies can't revenge downvote, so they're safe targets. ;)
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 1:18

8 Answers 8

13

I already wrote quite a bit about idownvotedbecau.se which I won't repeat here. Probably the most promising aspect of that idea is that it would categorize posts by why they are downvoted. I also agree with Shog9's analysis of a similar proposal. Ultimately, I think providing specific, immediate feedback, even anonymously, risks backing people into an emotional corner. Folks tend to focus in on arguing technicalities rather than fixing the problem. We see this a lot with close vote reasons.

The other thing that we see with question closing is that voters don't always pick the most helpful close reason. I'm a little worried that anonymous feedback would be a griefing opportunity that would be very hard to police. It would be exponentially more infuriating to be told you needed to include code when you really need to edit down the code you dumped in your question.

However, I could see this sort of feedback being useful for guiding users on their subsequent posts. For instance, suppose an asker forgets to include their code on their first question or two. If they get some generic downvotes and no comments, there's no reason they will ever learn better. But if the downvotes included some anonymous "too much code" feedback, we could use that information when they next create or edit a post:

You'll get better answers if you edit your code down to a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example.

There's a principle in parenting that if you want a child to stop doing something, you need to go out of your way to praise improvement. For instance, one of my children has been struggling with fussy breakdowns lately. (Who am I kidding. This is all of my children.) When they happen to have a good day, it's really important to a) notice and b) give positive feedback. It even helps to say "Wow, you only broke down 4 times today! That's better than yesterday." In this way, the child learns to buy into the goal and not just avoid punishment.

The principle works just as well for adults. If we are praised for commitment to a goal, we are likely to do that same action again later. (There's an asymmetry between positive and negative feedback we need to keep in mind.) Unfortunately, on Stack Overflow and other huge sites we don't have a great way to provide feedback to encourage small, but meaningful improvements. If you look at small sites or tags, where users can read every post, you do see this sort of praise once in awhile. But it's much harder when nobody can read more than a tiny sampling of new posts.

What does this have to do with downvote reasons? Well, if a user has a track record of making a particular mistake and later corrects that behavior, it's possible the system could provide incremental praise on behalf of voters:

Looks like you pasted your code rather than including an image this time. Thank you for taking the time to make your posts better.

This message would work especially well for people trying their best, but still get downvotes. But of course this can only work if we can accurately diagnose the improvement. Assuming we get a good set of downvote reasons and people apply them consistently, I think we could use that information to both encourage improved behavior and praise incremental progress.

6
  • So, you're saying no to the suggestion and instead offer us to explain downvotes with the goal of training some hypothetical SO system? i.e. Don't tell the user why you downvoted but instead tell us and we will decide what to do with it. Did I get that right?
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 0:58
  • 4
    @Oleg: More or less. If you want to give feedback directly, there's always comments. I can't see a direct anonymous messaging system (even with limited responses) being productive. Of course, I'd want to have a more concrete idea of what to do with the data before collecting it.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 1:13
  • Plus one for thinking about SO in terms of child psychology.
    – user663031
    Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 5:00
  • 5
    Oh, I see. So you want Will to create an iupvotedbecau.se site for positive reinforcement. ;-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 12:40
  • 2
    @CodyGray: It'll have just one reason: "The post was useful!" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… ;)
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Oct 15, 2017 at 22:26
  • 1
    "The principle works just as well for adults" - this is the key because it isn't child psychology, it is human psychology. Unfortunately the site is catered to answer the wrong question: "Why was I/the question/the answer downvoted". As recent history has again shown, that question is not asked when someone is looking for help. It is asked when they're looking for someone or something to blame. That question needs to be redirected, not answered.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 6, 2017 at 13:00
9

"Then, a message below the post is displayed detailing the current reasoning behind their downvotes would appear"

As long as it's a comment posted by Community, and not a banner inside the actual post body.

I don't want to see that crap in my answers, especially in cases where someone erroneously thinks my answer is wrong. A banner inside the post would give downvoters a way to potentially slander and "hold hostage" answers they didn't like or users they had a beef with.

Imagine seeing Mysticial's answer on branch prediction with a banner on it saying "This answer is factually incorrect." A system banner saying that would prevent most people from voting on it, probably.

Alternatively, give answerers the option to delete the banner message once they have read it. I'd be more OK with that.

2
  • 6
    I very much like the idea of having the option to delete the banner, but also I think the notion is to make it only visible to the poster, so a user couldn't slander an answer/user they don't like. There's also talk of having the message only pop up after a few downvotes for the same reason, so one user couldn't bug another as easily (after all, I don't really care if one person doesn't like my answer. I'll start to care if the community doesn't like it, though). Also, this one's minor, but isn't that answer on branch prediction Mystical's? Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 14:21
  • 1
    @LordFarquaad Ahh, I missed that 'only visible to the poster' line on my first pass through. Still, I'd like the option to delete it. Or perhaps just send the reason to the user's inbox like a message would normally appear. And yes, it probably is. I get confused trying to remember Jon's highest scoring answers (because there are so many). Fixed.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 14:35
8

I don't think this is a good idea for several reasons.

  1. Many cases where an inquirer is asking for an explanation for downvotes involve multiple major flaws in the question. Loading up an already confused user with multiple different generic downvote reasons is unlikely to provide clarity.
  2. I have seen questions (deservedly) garner a couple quick downvotes because they lack enough info to be answerable. In these cases, coupling downvotes with explanatory comments incentivizes answerers to downvote, pick a generic reason and move on, rather than advising the author specifically what to include (perhaps without downvoting just yet). This might result in some questions getting deleted that could have been fixed with a simple edit from the author.
  3. Most importantly in my opinion. The only advantage I see to being able to anonymously explain downvotes is that it protects the downvoter from personal attack. If that is the issue, then it is abuse, and I believe we should spend our time keeping abusive users off the site, rather than trying to hide ourselves from them within the site.

EDIT: I guess the main point I never got around to making was that the benefits of implementing this are not worth changing the flow of the user experience within the site.

4
  • 4
    "If that is the issue, then it is abuse" You mean here that attacking someone who downvotes and comments is abuse, not that anonymous comments would be abuse, right?
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 23:42
  • 4
    @Josh Yes, of course. There is nothing abusive about not volunteering identifying information on the internet, or elsewhere. Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 15:51
  • 1
    That's what I thought, but I was unsure for a moment. The idea that downvoters are inherently abusive gets tossed around here semi-frequently. :)
    – jscs
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 16:04
  • 3
    I, for one, would downvote that idea. Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 16:18
7

Users don't want to have write long comments detailing why they downvoted something over and over again because it can get exhausting repeating themselves.

So, don't. Posting a short link over and over again will be just as exhausting and actually be less helpful. From the answer you linked to:

Bare links (http://idownvotedbecau.se/nomcve/) come off as cold and unhelpful. Very much reminds me of https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque. Taking a minute to fill out a personalized comment seems more productive.

I see a decent number of naked links to idownvotedbecau.se being flagged already. If you can't follow the simple advice above, stop posting it. They are getting flagged as no longer needed and as rude/abusive. If it's a naked link and it's brought to my attention via a flag, I'm deleting it.

The content contained in the link isn't limited to a 600 character, 13pt font, comment block.

Most users don't read the assistance they are given when asking their first question, they don't read the yellow or red warnings they are presented with, they don't read anything more than they need to to find the button to post a question. Why would presenting them with a full page of text on why you downvoted be any different?

One final question to the users that are actively posting these links. At the bottom of each reason is this block of text:

Leave a comment!

Once you have done this, leave a comment to the person who sent you this link. They will be happy to retract their downvote.

Is this true? Are you actively going back and removing the downvotes you've cast if the user fixes their post? Or, is this just fancy words that you didn't read...and the user probably didn't either.


I really don't think adding this into SO would be beneficial. There are comments flagged throughout the day of users complaining that they received downvotes. If they are ignored, they complain more. If someone answers, a decent amount of time it becomes a discussion where one side nit-picks the other until both are frustrated. Other times, a simple explanation is declared rude, publicly, and someone has to come in and clean up an large swath of comments.

Making it anonymous would provide one advantage though: the revenge downvotes would probably be lower. I'm not sure that's worth it though.

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    I don't think this really addresses the core of the post. You've focused on the fact that links are used, and the premise of the question is to indeed stop using links and integrate this into the site. So all of the anti-link points are not applicable in the context of the proposed integration, because bare links would no longer be used. Secondly, the conclusion that such comments lead to unconstructive discussion, seems to be based on anecdotal evidence. As a mod you probably see the worst of these discussions. Certainly I've improved my answers/q's after reading negative comments.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:17
  • 5
    The bare links would be replaced with a decent amount of text. I mentioned users already skip reading as much as possible. I think this would just be another spot that is skipped. For that point about anecdotal evidence, I'm going to go with "yup". I've removed over 500 flagged comments today. "down votes" has been mentioned in many.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:22
  • 1
    The whole premise of this question is that we can somehow help askers/answerers by providing a reason for downvotes (anonymous or otherwise). My argument is that such a canned reason wouldn't be more useful than a comment requesting clarification or suggesting a change, ignoring the fact that a vote was cast at all.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:23
  • 5
    While many people may not read the information that they’re being provided with to fix their question, there are probably many other people who are trying to be helpful and would actually read information provided to them to make their post better. Also, “Are you actively going back and removing the downvotes you've cast if the user fixes their post?” No. However, when I comment along with a downvote and a user @​mentions me and tells me they fixed the issue, I’m happy to remove my downvote — it’s the right thing to do, and I get my reputation point back.
    – Jed Fox
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:53
  • 3
    I'm not sure I support the fact that moderators are carte-blanche deleting these links. I mean, yeah the bare links are less useful than the links if they had been accompanied by some relevant summary of the link target, but they are still useful. The fact that OPs are flagging such links as rude/abusive just speaks to the point that the OPs don't really want to know what is wrong with their posts, they just like complaining about downvotes
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 21:31
  • 10
    You've made a couple assumptions there @TinyGiant: 1.) The OPs are the only ones flagging this and 2.) Someone complained about downvotes before the link was posted.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 21:35
  • 1
    Actually, the first assumption there is bare. It does not imply that all of these flags are by the OP, merely that OPs are flagging such comments. I'm operating under the impression that this is so because Cody Gray mentioned in an answer somewhere on meta recently that it is so. The second is just based on the fact that people complain about downvotes without reason, then when supplied with reasoning they complain that the reasoning is rude, which in turn indicates (to me) that they don't want reasons, they just want to complain about the downvotes.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 21:37
  • 2
    I'm more disappointed that these links are being deleted without a second thought to whether or not they are actually rude or no longer needed. In cases where the issues have been addressed, yes they are no longer needed. As well, there may be cases where their use is rude. But, to assume that all uses of the links are rude or no longer needed without any investigation into whether or not they are so is less than useful, and not what I would expect from a moderator.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 21:40
  • 11
    I said that if it's just a link, without anything else, then it's removed. Read Jon's quote: "Bare links (idownvotedbecau.se/nomcve) come off as cold and unhelpful. Very much reminds me of yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque. Taking a minute to fill out a personalized comment seems more productive."
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 21:43
  • 6
    I don't care if something feels more productive or not. I don't care if a link comes off as cold and unhelpful. The fact of the matter is that it is helpful regardless of how it makes you feel. When you're deleting like that, it should be because it is actually no longer needed, or actually rude or abusive. All of this requires that you investigate to make sure that it is so. Deleting useful comments because you feel that they could be more useful does not make sense to me.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 23:22
  • 11
    I think we're going to disagree on this @Tiny. I don't believe users are going to 1.) Click a random link and 2.) Read literally more than a screen of text to find out why they were downvoted with any consistency. If you want to provide users with a reason for a down vote, do so in a couple sentences. Not a full page of text.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 23:29
  • 7
    The same could be said about any document in the help center. Should we be deleting any comments that link to the help center? No that makes no sense. Just because some users aren't going to read the text does not mean that the text should be ad-hoc outlawed through silent removal by moderators. If we're going to make a policy against the links then we need to make a policy against the links. At this point, there is no policy against the links, so deleting them on sight without investigating is IMO not within your mandate, and I find your disregard disturbing.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 0:37
  • 4
    If the comment to the help center is only a link to the help center, then yes it should be removed. There is no context around that link. Why are you linking to it? Why should a user click it? If you add context, as many people do, then the comment is more helpful. There is no silent removal going on. We aren't hunting down comments to remove. We have many other flags to handle. If someone flags a comment and it is only a link with no context, it's probably not that useful. All Jon says and all I'm saying is to add context around your link. Make the comment meaningful, not just a link.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 1:11
  • I agree that links with no context are unhelpful, but I think adding a feature like this is a good way to combat bare links. Having control over the text means SO can guarantee that by the time a "downvote reason" makes it to a user, it's not in a comment that's nitpickity or just a bare link. Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 13:43
  • 4
    @Andy It's ridiculous that you're removing a link which quite clearly tells the user what the problem is and provides fast and properly formatted feedback because you think that the commenter should have left more information that just a link. The link is helpful. Just because it could be more helpful does not mean that it should be deleted. That's like saying "The index of a book isn't helpful because it only tells you which page to go and find the information and not the full information on the index page". That's just stupid. Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 15:33
-4

Yes that feature is most likely useful and would be better if it was provided by SO rather than a third party.

Definition

  • It should be optional.
  • It should be anonymous.
  • It should be very easy for the voter to use.
  • The list of reasons should be worded and voted on by the community.
  • Instead of including a custom comment it should include a non specific catch all reason such as "none of the above" or "an unspecified reason"
  • It should be possible to specify multiple reasons.
  • It should be possible to add/remove reasons to/from the list
  • The content should be kept concise but include a link for more information.
  • The comment should be public, so that everyone can benefit from anyone's error.
  • It should be able to be deleted after the question is edited.
  • After which the voter should be notified so they can remove the vote, re-apply the comment or even upvote the new question/answer as appropriate.

Pros

  • Giving a reason, any reason, even a bare link or canned response is better than no explanation at all.
  • Assuming the goal is to have more useful questions and answers and the user needs to edit their question or answer to make it more useful, then the only way they will get any guidance on what they need to add or change is via a comment.
  • To be sure, a detailed specific comment is more informative than a canned response, but the canned response has the benefits of not needing moderation, being anonymous and not being a burden to the voter.

Also it is unhelpful to bring up the cynical conjecture that the user wont read the comment, follow the link or read the instructions before posting.

  • For starters this is an assumption that may or may not be correct, where is the data to back it up?
  • Secondly even if it has some veracity it will only apply to some users. Many users read every comment and answer posted on their question, and even if their immediate reaction is somewhat emotional the message will be absorbed and subsequently influence the users future questions.
  • Furthermore, pandering to the subset of undesirable users is self defeating. If you treat the users as though they are deadbeats, eventually you will be right.
-5

I'd rather go in a different direction.

When a user tries to leave a comment asking about a downvote, we block it with a dialog explaining what downvotes are and why they might have been cast (maybe a simple explanation with a link to a help article.) Maybe include some of the possible reasons on that site in the explanation if we find that information to be useful for that purpose. Maybe also show the dialog automatically if the post receives a number of downvotes in the same way we get a dialog when we cast a lot of votes on answers and not questions.

Sure, people can get around the dialog/block, but those are the ones that are probably going to be combative with any reason we give anyway.

Essentially this would be giving the benefit of the doubt to the user that they know what downvoting is and stay out of their hair, and when they indicate that they don't we provide more information.

19
  • But that would only show up if the poster bothered to try and respond in the comments. I think it might also be a small problem to try and write a condition to say "Is the user asking why they received downvotes?". It also neglects potential metadata that could be gathered from optional reasons added to the downvote which would help direct what reasons would be displayed in your proposed dialog box.
    – zero298
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:49
  • 1
    Right... but what if my reason for downvoting isn't in said dialog box? am i wrong for downvoting? wouldn't be very useful to the OP to just say this isn't useful. Downvotes aren't always just due to some thing that can be easily fixed
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:50
  • 1
    @Kevin there's nothing stopping you from leaving a more specific comment if none of the reasons apply to why you're downvoting
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:51
  • 3
    Right... but then we're right back to square one. downvotes and comments serve two different purposes.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:52
  • I don't want reasons to be mandatory. I don't want to disrupt the one-click-to-downvote flow. I do think that there is potential usefulness in being able to tie a reason to a downvote.
    – zero298
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:52
  • 1
    Not really, we would be at square two, with a fallback to square one in the case that square two fails.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:53
  • 3
    You shouldn't be commenting to explain why you downvoted. You should be commenting to request clarification or improvement. that's not what downvotes are for.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:54
  • 6
    I am aware of that, and have commented as such previously here on meta. The link to downvoting in this case is less of a "I downvoted because" (which is irrelevant) and more of a "This post needs improvement on this aspect: ${aspect}". The fact that the name of the site is "idownvotedbecau.se" probably has more to do with how people refer to this than its actually purpose and usage.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:56
  • So, what if a answer contains misinformation? Naturally, you downvote it. Why shouldn't you comment, explaining that the answer is wrong, @KevinB?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 6:53
  • you absolutely should. @Cerbrus. but the comment shouldn't be a reaction to the downvote.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:10
  • So, we can request improvement, but we can't mention that that misinformation is the reason for the downvote?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:11
  • why should you? that doesn't help anything. if anything this is a great example of a case where a canned message would be useless.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:12
  • I'm not talking "canned messages". I think "I downvoted this because X and Y is incorrect" is useful, as it also shows other viewers the reason for the downvote.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 7:15
  • 1
    @KevinB I don't think anyone's arguing that downvotes and comments are for the same thing, but often times people downvote because they think the question needs improvement, so it stands to reason that sometimes a comment should follow. Ideally, it's one that explains how to improve the question without mentioning a downvote, except in practice we've seen that it's actually pretty difficult for users to separate those two actions. This feature separates them for us, because we tell the system "I downvoted because __" and the system tells the user "you can improve your question by __" Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 14:27
  • 1
    @KevinB I don't think it would be less useful "in most cases", but I'll give you "in some cases". Often, comments explaining downvotes are also pretty generic ("We can't answer this question if you don't show us your code."). SO will get to control what these messages say, so I believe it will be more constructive than most of the bare links and terse comments users leave anyway. If it is one of those cases where a question-specific comment is better, then leave one. I point out in my answer that the reasons shouldn't be so general that we lose the incentive for question-specific feedback. Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 14:38
-9

I've never seen idownvotedbecau.se before this meta post. I think it's written very Nicely, and has useful content. I may link to it on those few occasions where a user is engaged and truly wants to improve.

That said, I don't think I like the feature request - adding more user panels, particularly to something as simple as a downvote feels like unnecessary noise added to what should be a simple process.

But I do like the content, and I think it should be easy to link to. Consequently, I recommend that common reasons to downvote be added to the 'magic' links (called shorthand links on the markdown help page). Obviously, Stack Overflow wouldn't magic-link to content they don't host, so they'd need to (get Will's permission and) move idownvotedbecau.se's content into the help center.

This makes downvote reasons a part of Stack Overflow's help area, it gives downvoters the ability to easily post a link to well-written explanations for common problems, and it doesn't intrude any extra UI elements on a downvote. (As an added bonus, it doesn't really take any substantial time from Stack Overflow developers.)

This does lose one benefit of idownvotedbecau.se - the community ownership of these downvote reasons. If these pages do get swallowed by Stack Overflow, it will not be nearly as easy to add new content.

-29

Making use of the site you mentioned seems to me to be infinitely better than the blind down-voting that currently takes place as it actually (in a constructive way) is giving the questioner feedback which helps their future question which helps the community as a whole. From what it seems, new users don't really read the articles in help center (how to ask), what I propose is as follows:

Change the existing side section when asking a question,

From,

To,

(Note the side bar)

This will allow them to directly view the 'common reasons' for down-votes and amend their questions as such, hopefully.

Though the second image doesn't show it, the link to the help center can still be used as it is done in the first image (bottom right of the box).

2
  • 6
    I worry that putting downvote reasons on the edit screen and in such an out of the way place doesn't address the initial concern. A downvotee would have to actually click the edit question link to see the reasons and would have to look to the right of the post. Putting it on the main page, in line with the post means, they have no excuse not to see it and acknowledge it.
    – zero298
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 16:44
  • @zero298 ah, I see my post may have been misunderstood. My solution is not aimed at the people that are down-voting, rather it is for the questionnaire. With the common reasons for down-voting listed for them they'll hopefully take heed and avoid the obvious pitfalls. I was aiming for the root of the problem (poor questions) with my suggestion.
    – Script47
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 18:19

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