Timeline for Can we incorporate what idownvotedbecau.se is trying to do?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
19 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Nov 15, 2017 at 12:35 | comment | added | klutt | "So, don't. Posting a short link over and over again will be just as exhausting " - My own experience says that it is MUCH less exhaustive. This is plain wrong. At least for me. | |
Oct 13, 2017 at 17:02 | comment | added | Oleg | I don't like the idownvotedbecau.se comments but I'm currently posting them. They're not exactly link only the links compose a sentence and provide context so I don't exactly understand what you mean by adding context. Is the following better? "idownvotedbecau.se/nocode your question is not clear, it will be much more clear with some code." stackoverflow.com/questions/46734527/… Oh, and as to your question yes this is true(well the part about me being willing to go back and retract my downvote). | |
Oct 13, 2017 at 15:33 | comment | added | Ethan Field | @Andy It's ridiculous that you're removing a link which quite clearly tells the user what the problem is and provides fast and properly formatted feedback because you think that the commenter should have left more information that just a link. The link is helpful. Just because it could be more helpful does not mean that it should be deleted. That's like saying "The index of a book isn't helpful because it only tells you which page to go and find the information and not the full information on the index page". That's just stupid. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 13:54 | comment | added | Lord Farquaad | I also think the fact that this message is asynchronous increases the chances a user reads it. It's easy to assume you can ask a good question without reading the question assistance. I mean, how many of us try to skip a game tutorial or ignore the instructions for building furniture? Once you hit a real-time problem though, you're far more likely to give in and read what you're doing wrong. A message like this says "You have encountered a real-time problem. You won't get an answer until you fix it, and here is how you do that." | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 13:43 | comment | added | Lord Farquaad | I agree that links with no context are unhelpful, but I think adding a feature like this is a good way to combat bare links. Having control over the text means SO can guarantee that by the time a "downvote reason" makes it to a user, it's not in a comment that's nitpickity or just a bare link. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 1:11 | comment | added | Andy Mod | If the comment to the help center is only a link to the help center, then yes it should be removed. There is no context around that link. Why are you linking to it? Why should a user click it? If you add context, as many people do, then the comment is more helpful. There is no silent removal going on. We aren't hunting down comments to remove. We have many other flags to handle. If someone flags a comment and it is only a link with no context, it's probably not that useful. All Jon says and all I'm saying is to add context around your link. Make the comment meaningful, not just a link. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 0:37 | comment | added | user4639281 | The same could be said about any document in the help center. Should we be deleting any comments that link to the help center? No that makes no sense. Just because some users aren't going to read the text does not mean that the text should be ad-hoc outlawed through silent removal by moderators. If we're going to make a policy against the links then we need to make a policy against the links. At this point, there is no policy against the links, so deleting them on sight without investigating is IMO not within your mandate, and I find your disregard disturbing. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 23:29 | comment | added | Andy Mod | I think we're going to disagree on this @Tiny. I don't believe users are going to 1.) Click a random link and 2.) Read literally more than a screen of text to find out why they were downvoted with any consistency. If you want to provide users with a reason for a down vote, do so in a couple sentences. Not a full page of text. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 23:22 | comment | added | user4639281 | I don't care if something feels more productive or not. I don't care if a link comes off as cold and unhelpful. The fact of the matter is that it is helpful regardless of how it makes you feel. When you're deleting like that, it should be because it is actually no longer needed, or actually rude or abusive. All of this requires that you investigate to make sure that it is so. Deleting useful comments because you feel that they could be more useful does not make sense to me. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 21:43 | comment | added | Andy Mod | I said that if it's just a link, without anything else, then it's removed. Read Jon's quote: "Bare links (idownvotedbecau.se/nomcve) come off as cold and unhelpful. Very much reminds me of yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque. Taking a minute to fill out a personalized comment seems more productive." | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 21:40 | comment | added | user4639281 | I'm more disappointed that these links are being deleted without a second thought to whether or not they are actually rude or no longer needed. In cases where the issues have been addressed, yes they are no longer needed. As well, there may be cases where their use is rude. But, to assume that all uses of the links are rude or no longer needed without any investigation into whether or not they are so is less than useful, and not what I would expect from a moderator. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 21:37 | comment | added | user4639281 | Actually, the first assumption there is bare. It does not imply that all of these flags are by the OP, merely that OPs are flagging such comments. I'm operating under the impression that this is so because Cody Gray mentioned in an answer somewhere on meta recently that it is so. The second is just based on the fact that people complain about downvotes without reason, then when supplied with reasoning they complain that the reasoning is rude, which in turn indicates (to me) that they don't want reasons, they just want to complain about the downvotes. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 21:35 | comment | added | Andy Mod | You've made a couple assumptions there @TinyGiant: 1.) The OPs are the only ones flagging this and 2.) Someone complained about downvotes before the link was posted. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 21:31 | comment | added | user4639281 | I'm not sure I support the fact that moderators are carte-blanche deleting these links. I mean, yeah the bare links are less useful than the links if they had been accompanied by some relevant summary of the link target, but they are still useful. The fact that OPs are flagging such links as rude/abusive just speaks to the point that the OPs don't really want to know what is wrong with their posts, they just like complaining about downvotes | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 20:53 | comment | added | Jed Fox | While many people may not read the information that they’re being provided with to fix their question, there are probably many other people who are trying to be helpful and would actually read information provided to them to make their post better. Also, “Are you actively going back and removing the downvotes you've cast if the user fixes their post?” No. However, when I comment along with a downvote and a user @mentions me and tells me they fixed the issue, I’m happy to remove my downvote — it’s the right thing to do, and I get my reputation point back. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 20:23 | comment | added | Kevin B | The whole premise of this question is that we can somehow help askers/answerers by providing a reason for downvotes (anonymous or otherwise). My argument is that such a canned reason wouldn't be more useful than a comment requesting clarification or suggesting a change, ignoring the fact that a vote was cast at all. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 20:22 | comment | added | Andy Mod | The bare links would be replaced with a decent amount of text. I mentioned users already skip reading as much as possible. I think this would just be another spot that is skipped. For that point about anecdotal evidence, I'm going to go with "yup". I've removed over 500 flagged comments today. "down votes" has been mentioned in many. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 20:17 | comment | added | AaronLS | I don't think this really addresses the core of the post. You've focused on the fact that links are used, and the premise of the question is to indeed stop using links and integrate this into the site. So all of the anti-link points are not applicable in the context of the proposed integration, because bare links would no longer be used. Secondly, the conclusion that such comments lead to unconstructive discussion, seems to be based on anecdotal evidence. As a mod you probably see the worst of these discussions. Certainly I've improved my answers/q's after reading negative comments. | |
Oct 11, 2017 at 20:07 | history | answered | AndyMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |