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This question (10k+ link), after being closed as not in English, was locked and red-flagged ("This post is hidden. It was flagged as spam or offensive content and deleted 1 min ago by Community") within 20 minutes.

It consists of some Vietnamese text followed by a "please help me" request - with the last letters of those English words repeated many times:

Helpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee plsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Machine translation (not edited in, of course) of the non-English text reveals the title:

Create a school theme and student theme in HTML and CSS language

and body:

I need to create a school theme website and students in HTML and CSS language

I hope anyone help me

(Amusingly, Google Translate apparently thinks the original isn't even grammatical in Vietnamese...)

Obviously a question like this is worthless and unlikely to be fixable. Even if its author can communicate in English and rewrite the question, it is nowhere near the site standard (in particular for focus) and reflects a complete misunderstanding of how the site works. Communicating those issues with an OP who apparently doesn't speak English as a first language might be effectively impossible; it rarely works even with those who do.

However, this was detected as possible spam by the SD bot (because of the repeating characters, I assume), and enough people apparently agreed with the report to get the question flagged as spam or offensive. I think it's relatively unlikely that a post like this was intended to be any kind of spam seed or an attempt to waste curators' time. It didn't contain a link, was at least theoretically on topic, and didn't appear intended to waste space, call people rude names etc.

As misguided as the post was, it looks like a sincere attempt to use the site for its intended purpose (as the author understood it). For what it's worth, I am told from SOCVR chat that the bot report received at least two "fp" feedback replies (i.e. Stack Overflow users using a command to mark the report as a false positive).

While the question merits swift deletion, and the author should be on the road to a question ban, the red-flag spam/offensive treatment carries additional implications, to my understanding.

Is it in fact a problem that questions like this get reviewed as spam/offensive rather than being deleted normally?

Am I correct in my perception that this is more likely to happen to questions that are not posted in English (since reviewers can't easily verify whether the text looks like an attempt at a programming question)?

If so, could this represent a form of the "disparate impact" that the company uses as a basis to raise allegations of racism against the community?

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    It seems kinda obvious (to me at least) that it'd be more likely for someone to assume something is spam if it's low quality and in a language they can't understand.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:08
  • 6
    Based on that the user's account has been purged, I suspect that there is more than meets the eyes. I wouldn't be surprised if the user had also posted other "questions" that were spam.
    – Thom A
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:10
  • 17
    Charcoal's (the group responsible for SmokeDetector) Feedback Guidance: Foreign-language posts on English sites (or vice versa) explicitly states that such posts should be handled based on what the text translates to. All users who provided feedback to the SmokeDetector report for that question marked it as a false positive and none raised a spam or R/A flag.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:36
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    Your question "Am I correct in my perception that this is more likely to happen to questions that are not posted in English (since reviewers can't easily verify whether the text looks like an attempt at a programming question)?" is nearly a tautology. Of course, when the conditions are such that confusion is more likely, then it's more likely for things to be handled sub-optimally (if such happened here). I'm not saying that's good, just that it's inherent. As such, I'm unsure what you're really asking.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 19:46
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    What does the question or SmokeDetector have to do with racism? The site has a rule about content being in English. If there's any 'racism' concern it should be direct at that rule, not at people enforcing it.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 20:19
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    @TylerH: Argument could be made of implicit bias in that it's a non-English speaker posting something you don't understand in an instant with a drawn out "help me please", and one subconsciously makes a judgment based on the non-English text.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 20:48
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    @Makoto Of course there is implicit bias; everyone has implicit bias. That is an extremely far cry from racism, though.
    – TylerH
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 21:06
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    @TylerH: You never know. It's better to ask the question and start the conversation rather than assume it's not a possibility. Knowing your biases is better than not.
    – Makoto
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 21:10
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    I would argue that purposefully spamming non-sense into a post to circumvent quality threshold is abusive behaviour. But I also understand, that SO tends to accept a lot of low-quality stuff and prefers to keep these posts around.
    – Tom
    Commented Nov 14, 2023 at 21:20
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    @TylerH I agree that it is not racist, and I have a considerable distaste for how the company approaches the topic. That, plus a desire to appear diplomatic, is precisely why I phrased the last sentence the way I did. My point is: if there is such a tendency (whether or not intentional), and if the company is inclined to interpret it a certain way, then that is likely to cause more friction. Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 0:03
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    @starball I did actually flag it as spam (in addition to the close vote for the non-English title). Just like user229044 below, I only saw the wall of text ("ppp … eee … sss") and didn't realise it carried an actual meaning. I don't know about what SmokeDetector did, but it looks like multiple people misidentified it at first glance.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 2:54
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    @Makoto This case is as clear cut as you can get to Bayesian reasoning. A user clearly flaunts an extremely simple and explicit rule: use English. You, as a rational human being, should immediately update your internal assessment of the probability that the post is spam/rude/garbage. When you do that, the level of evidence required to flag the post decreases. This is called "being rational". There's a crowd out there that likes to call this "implicit bias".
    – Passer By
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 10:49
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    @ArcanisGK507 ... the system implicitly requires multiple people to be involved in the handling of most things already. Even in this case, there were multiple people involved before the mod came in and took action. The outcome here was a rare occurrence of a moderator not taking the required time to properly investigate the situation. it is not the norm.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 18:20
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    @ArcanisGK507 Because we only have a very small number of moderators and their actions are quite well monitored. Are you confusing regular users with privileges and moderators? The majority of moderator actions happen as a result of 3 or more regular users making the moderator aware of the problem. Note how this case was caught by a regular user.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 18:26
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    @ArcanisGK507 You clearly have some axe to grind, if you have a specific grievance please share it, rather than making vague claims and insinuations of systemic problems. People are generally doing their best and have good intentions, but this is a system for humans, moderated by humans, and mistakes are expected and inevitable. It is unreasonable to expect perfection across the entire community, so if your point is just that mistakes happen, then... yes. Nobody is denying that. The site has done better than most at putting systems in place to detect and correct mistakes.
    – user229044 Mod
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 19:38

2 Answers 2

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Edit: A member of the CM team has undeleted the account after moderators requested it, and another moderator marked my spam flag as "disputed".


I flagged this post as spam, and deleted the account of the user who posted it.

Re-reading the post, my decision was hasty and I should have looked a little closer. I missed clues like the words "website" and "css", and frankly I didn't even see the "Help me please" at the end. That part of the post looked to me like a wall of garbage/nonsense, and I didn't even try to derive meaning from it.

My assumption here was that this was a throw-away account hammering garbage into a text-field on the Internet. Unfortunately many years of handling similar actual nonsense posts has worked against me here.

As misguided as the post was, it looks like a sincere attempt to use the site for its intended purpose (as the author understood it)

I agree, a better course of action would have been to close the question as being non-English, and remove the drawn out "Help meeee" from the end so there was at least some chance of the author correcting the post. That is a missed opportunity and a mistake on my part.

I can't really offer much except this mea culpa, contact is no longer possible with the account in question. I will endeavour to look more closely at posts I assume to be nonsense in the future.

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    I was the user who cast the first spam flag. The "help me please" did look exactly like someone smashing their keyboard, it didn't occur to me that it's a drawn-out actual sentence until after I had already cast the flag. I'm sorry for not retracting the flag upon that realisation. I should have been more aware of the consequences for the account, I didn't think it would make a difference if the question gets closed as non-English anyway.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 2:44
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    I see people flagged it as spam, I'd like to ask why particularly spam though (With the assumption that the user did not post any spam elsewhere)? If I considered that as just posting random gibberish won't Rude / Abusive or VLQ be more suitable? From what I understand spam involves more than just posting gibberish. Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 7:37
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat Gibberish is traditionally flagged as spam even without being promotional. You're right, Abusive and VLQ are deemed to be more appropriate, but the consensus appears to be that it doesn't matter which type of flag you use as long as it gets rid of the gibberish post.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 13:42
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    @Bergi I see, and given Spam is the first option in the flag menu (and some people probably have user scripts that make it even easier to raise spam flags) people take the path of least resistance I guess. If both are acceptable though why particularly even have that as two flag options? We really need some reworking with how these flags work I believe. Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 13:52
  • @AbdulAzizBarkat It's not acceptable to flag all content with any flag, only gibberish content which is not explicitly mentioned by either flag description. For most content there is a clear cut, it falls into either one or the other category.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 13:59
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    @AbdulAzizBarkat - ""I see people flagged it as spam, I'd like to ask why particularly spam though" - I didn't flag this question at all, but it is a common spam tactic in forums to post (stuff) to increase the account's post count to the level where it unlocks the rights to post links, images, and/or create new topics. They then flood with the real spam. I can see people thinking (nonsense post == spam post) based on experiencing that behavior elsewhere.
    – Dave S
    Commented Nov 15, 2023 at 22:58
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    If people don't want to get mistaken for spammers, then maybe they should learn an utter minimum of basic human communication skills to go with their posts. This isn't kindergarten, we have no obligation to raise children on this programming site. Also, people who can't even perform basic human interaction lack the necessary prerequisites to enroll in any form of academic studies, of programming or otherwise. They can come back and create a new account when they become adults.
    – Lundin
    Commented Nov 17, 2023 at 12:59
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Are low-quality / low-effort questions more likely to be judged as spam or abusive if they are also not in English?

Almost certainly, because when you've been curating for as long as most people on Meta, you develop a "feel" for questions that allows you to generally characterise them at a glance.

Is that a problem?

No. If you want your question to be judged solely on its merits, follow the rules and post it in English, and stop wasting our time. If you want respect from us, show respect first.

If so, could this represent a form of the "disparate impact" that the company uses as a basis to raise allegations of racism against the community?

If the company chooses to do that, it would rank as one of the most sleazy, underhanded, disrespectful, obnoxious, disingenuous acts of aggression that they've yet committed against this community. The problem that curators are paying insufficient attention and miscategorising questions is caused by the fact that there simply aren't enough curators to do a thorough job, and they simply don't have sufficient tools to do so. This is something that the company is well aware of and has been forever, yet has consistently failed to address.

In short, if the company has a problem with this, perhaps the company should try looking in the mirror for once. But we all know that blaming the community is far easier than honest introspection.

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    Well the "feel" that you describe (and that I have developed as well) is certainly a bias against non-English users. I wouldn't call this racism, but discriminating by language does disproportionally affect certain people more and makes them feel less welcome in our community. I'm not sure if this is a solvable problem though, as English communication is one of the things that defines the StackOverflow community.
    – Bergi
    Commented Nov 17, 2023 at 19:21

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