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A few days ago I came across a question from Dec 2017, asking:

I am getting this error "Unknown host 'dl.google.com' You may need to adjust the proxy settings in Gradle" in android studio 3.0. I have checked my auto proxy option already.

There were already several answers; one of the existing (and upvoted) ones had already suggested:

Your system needs to be online at the time you are building the project first time for the dependencies you have added.

There was also a response already deleted by a moderator after review, advising:

check you internet connection...

Given the above, a new answer pops up in April 2019 - the very first answer by a user who had been a member for more than 3 years:

I know that this is most likely not the problem for you, but I wasn't connected to the internet and I got this error thrown.

I did what I thought right: downvoted, flagged as NAA, and voted for deletion.

As it turns out, rather unsurprisingly, the post was already in the review queue, with 3 out of 4 reviewers (not including myself) recommending deletion.

My flag was declined; I have met similar situations in the past, so I went a step further, opening a flag for moderator attention:

A post that starts as "I know that this is most likely not the problem for you" is arguably not an answer and should be a comment.

This second flag was also

declined - Just because it might not be the problem that caused the error for the original OP doesn't mean this can't be the answer for future readers.

and I returned to the post, to find that, not only the answer was still there despite the review & deletion vote(s), but it had been edited by a moderator to look like:

In my case, the source of the error was that I wasn't connected to the internet.

I voted for deletion again (had already downvoted), and left a comment:

Welcome to SO; please notice that one of the answers above has already pointed out that "Your system needs to be online at the time you are building the project first time"


Not wanting to miss the forest for the trees, let me say straight what my real issue is here: I felt (and still feel) deeply insulted by the moderator's decision and actions, given the whole context as exposed above (let me stress that feeling insulted, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder: it can certainly happen even if the other party had never the slightest intention of making you feel so, as is obviously the case here).

My personal feelings are of course of zero concern for the SO community; however, there is (I hope...) something of interest here, and I feel it is my duty as a "trusted user" to bring it forward, even if it is the very last thing I will ever do on the SO moderating front:

  • In order for users to perform civic duties like reviewing & flagging, they have at the very least to feel that their work is a) useful b) appreciated by the community (and I don't mean of course the moderation badges!)

  • Sequences of actions like the one described above can very easily leave users (especially users of some reputation) to feel not only unappreciated, but like useless idiots

Wait... what just happened? Am I even implicitly called a value destroyer here? Because I insisted on removing this? OK, maybe I should just quit doing this, clearly we have vastly different opinions with these people on the definition of "value"...

I certainly hope I am not saying anything strange here...


Let me answer in advance a possible counter-argument, which many well-intended people may be ready to (and perhaps will) sincerely offer: "don't take this too seriously".

I respectfully disagree: the line between "too seriously" and "(simply) seriously" is arguably a very fuzzy, blurry, and not well-defined one; and, once one finds oneself in the area of "don't take it seriously", the exit sign ("just don't bother and stop engaging with this nonsense") is only 1-2 steps away. In other words, if I can't/shouldn't take it seriously enough, why should I bother at all? Just let the place burn...!


Of course, it may be just me overreacting. Such things unavoidably happen, occasionally; at the end of the day, it was just a single action, from a single moderator...

Only it was not.

A couple of days before, the same moderator had intervened in another thread; and although that situation was superficially different, it arguably leads to concerns like the ones I have tried to express above.

It was a question downvoted and later closed as off-topic, where someone offered an answer in the comments: "make sure you remove it in every file".

OP later posted this as an answer:

Thank you, Roland it was needed to do this in all includes.

The answer, again unsurprisingly, ended up in the review queue, where 2 reviewers had recommended deletion as a thank-you answer, and the auto-generated poem "Please don't add thank-you as an answer" was added as a comment.

The moderator intervened, arguing that this is not the case here, that there is value in the answer, ending by urging the 1st reviewer: Please review more carefully (or closely , can't remember exactly, and the comments are now deleted).

Reviewers (and some passer-bys?) shot back, insisting that the answer should indeed be deleted, some claiming that even the question itself was closed for the wrong reason, as it was actually a typo, but the moderator insisted, and urged the protesters to bring the discussion to Meta, if they like, so that they can explain...

I left a comment myself, roughly saying (citing from memory):

Is this the low point we have reached? Inviting people to Meta, in order to debate when & why a thank-you self-answer in a closed off-topic question like this can indeed have value? And urging reviewers to be more careful?

Which comment probably triggered a further action, although the thread had been dormant for 2-3 days: moderator deletes the comments and edits again the answer to "improve" it (sorry, can't resist the quotes) to:

As Roland mentions it in a comment:

make sure you remove it in every file

it was needed to do this in all includes.


The argument "bring it to Meta" had already been raised during my own exchange with the said moderator in the comments of the first thread mentioned above (along with the always convenient and rather frequently popping up "Mea culpa", which, without corrective actions, sounds rather empty); and I had consciously rejected it with a specific reasoning:

regarding the Meta: thanks, but no thanks: if 2 people like you & me (coders, not lawyers) cannot agree on the essence of the issue (i.e. that this particular answer is a low-quality one, adding absolutely nothing to the site), and we need to go to the Meta to resolve it (thus wasting the time of others, too, apart from ours), then I personally think something is very wrong. Appreciate your responses here and your time, but as I said I'm done. All the best in your moderating tasks (and a bit of advice, if you allow me: try seriously not to alienate your working horses).

I don't frequent Meta, so it was a kind of a sad pleasure to see yesterday this comment in another Meta thread:

There's the crap-hugging meta-lawyers who don't care about the actual content, only what the rules say. And then there's those who only care about the quality of the technical content.

which, coming from a user of 113K rep (Lundin), I guess it carries some serious experience attached.

This chimed almost perfectly with a response from the discussion between me and the moderator in the first thread mentioned above:

Still, even taking the repetition into account, Meta had arguments about the same solution being represented differently being valid before, making me hesitant to throw a mod-delete-vote at the thing.

Still...? And Meta had arguments...??? What exactly are we talking about here?

BTW, here is how firm and clear the moderator was in their answers to the pre-election questionnaire:

To be very clear, the first thing which I care about on the site, is quality.

The emphasis is mine. Noted just for the history...


Wrapping up, let me clarify what this question is not about:

  • It is of course crystal clear that no one involved in what I have described above had even the slightest intention to actually insult or offend anyone - period.
  • The question is certainly not about the unambiguous right of moderators to decline flags and step in to rectify things in whatever manner they see fit
  • It is not about Meta scholarship (although of course I do expect some impressive Meta-fu to be demonstrated)
  • It is not about me seeking personal advice about how such situations ought or ought not to make me feel

TL;DR;

Having clarified that, here is the question to the community moderators (which I would really like to have posed in the election questionnaire):

  • Is there any real concern on your table for not alienating users who dutifully & consistently spend their valuable time in order to help keeping the place in order, which concern may be (just may be) required to kick-in in situations like the specific examples described above?
  • Or we are effectively treated as an army of moderating junkies, a safe bet that, however strongly we may occasionally protest, we are surely expected to come back, asking for more?

Because, you know, we are not, and we won't...

  • Or you simply don't care? And if this sounds blunt, let's rephrase it: maybe the issue is just really low in your long priorities list?

[UPDATE: both posts below are now deleted, each one by a different community moderator]

The 1st post mentioned above, along with my discussion with Baum in the comments, is here (please, do not delete it now!):

Error:Unknown host 'dl.google.com' You may need to adjust the proxy settings in Gradle

The 2nd post is here:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55744793/cant-get-rid-of-bom-char-65279/55746596#55746596

On a side level, I am of course curious to hear Baum's arguments for the moderating decisions described above, and how they conform with the pre-election prominently advertised focus on quality.


As I have already said: I have written this because I feel it is my obligation as a community member to ring a bell here (instead of just walking away), just in case (however improbable) you are not explicitly aware of such an issue and you do care about it; personally, I cannot risk any argument, in the near or far future, that "yes, it was an issue for sure, but you didn't speak up when you should".

In case I am mistaken in the above, please accept my sincerest apologies for any inconvenience - I can very certainly promise that it will never ever happen again...

P.S: Yes, I did go through Yvette's excellent idea of a thread What does our long term community need? What does our long term community need to feel valued? . And I am deeply puzzled why she was left to ask these things on her own, as a "simple user", not endorsed by the moderating team...

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    Err... if you can't access dl.google.com then it is likely a problem with your internet connection, so... "Check your internet connection" is not only a valid attempted answer, it is the answer. Why would anyone ever delete such an answer?
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 27, 2019 at 22:23
  • @TinyGiant don't ask me, ask... the moderator who deleted it! :)
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 27, 2019 at 22:27
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    Also note that the moderator listed under the deletion banner for that answer was not a moderator at the time they reviewed it.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 27, 2019 at 22:30
  • @BDL The comment from Jean-Francois Fabre on the deleted answer is: "This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post." Again, they were not a moderator when the answer was deleted, but... yeah.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 27, 2019 at 22:32
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    @TinyGiant: Sorry, I noticed my mistake. At the point where the answer got deleted no other answers stating that one has to be connected to the internet was present. The answer imho shouldn't have been deleted. Although low quality, it still provided a different answer than all other available answers at that point.
    – BDL
    Commented Apr 27, 2019 at 22:34
  • @TinyGiant well, as it turns out, Jean-Francois Fabre just intervened to delete this second answer, too (which, arguably due to its exposure here, had even received 2 upvotes)...
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 13:31

3 Answers 3

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Let's start with the first post:

I did what I thought right: downvoted, flagged as NAA, and voted for deletion.

The post here was not a NAA at all. NAA flag should not be used when the post is an attempt to answer the question. See When to flag an answer as “not an answer”?. Voting for deletion and downvoting/commenting was what had to be done here.

Review queue deleting wrong answers is a known issue from many years. See You're doing it wrong: A plea for sanity in the Low Quality Posts queue

The premise that

"A post that starts as "I know that this is most likely not the problem for you" is arguably not an answer and should be a comment."

is also wrong. See If the author says it's not an answer, can we take their word for it?. Don't judge the validity of a post based on the meta content that a poster uses in their answer. Judge the validity of a post based on the actual content instead.

Not wanting to miss the forest for the trees, let me say straight what my real issue is here: I felt (and still feel) deeply insulted by the moderator's decision and actions, given the whole context as exposed above (let me stress that feeling insulted, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder: it can certainly happen even if the other party had never the slightest intention of making you feel so, as is obviously the case here).

The moderator action here was correct. The post did not require a review queue deletion nor a flag. You should have downvoted/commented.

If the answer was already posted on the question, feel free to use a custom flag and explicitly state that the answer has already been posted earlier and link to the other answer. In this way we can delete duplicate answers. (See this question, where a user flagged all the duplicate answers, and a moderator took care of it)


Now for the second post:

The answer, again unsurprisingly, ended up in the review queue, where 2 reviewers had recommended deletion as a thank-you answer, and the auto-generated poem "Please don't add thank-you as an answer" was added as a comment.

You're misquoting the entire comment there, which was:

Please don't add "thank you" as an answer. Instead, accept the answer that you found most helpful.

There was no other answer there to accept. The post was not a "Thank you" answer at all. They were converting a comment to an answer. See Question with no answers, but issue solved in the comments (or extended in chat)

moderator deletes the comments and edits again the answer to "improve" it (sorry, can't resist the quotes)

I then deleted the comments because the conversation was not going anywhere, and included passive aggressive comments under the post directed at another moderator:

so, is this the new low point we have reached? Inviting people to Meta to debate why & when a "thank-you" self-answer can really be an answer in an off-topic question, because a moderator thinks it is an attempt to answer and afraids to delete? And urging the reviewers to review more carefully? Nice, very nice...! Surprised that no one showed up in Meta for this?

I edited the answer into shape, so that the answer contains the complete text of the comment. The answer as such wasn't a NAA as well, as it contained the necessary details needed to completely answer the question. If the answer was just a "Thank you Roland, it worked", then the NAA flag would have been valid, as they were not converting the comment into an answer, but instead thanking the commenter.

Similarly, if the question is bad, please vote to close the question instead, which the moderator did. The question had just one close vote before the moderator used their powers.

In short, neither of these were to be flagged as NAA, and the moderator was helping you to become a better contributor instead.


It is not about me seeking personal advice about how such situations ought or ought not to make me feel

Thank you for taking your time to write this, and thank you for the time you spend on Stack Overflow. As a community we all appreciate your efforts. However a few points:

  • Please do not use the NAA flag only for posts that attempt to answer the question.
  • Please do not use the LQP Review queue to delete posts that attempt to answer the question.
  • If moderators decline NAA flags on bad answers, it is not that the moderators want to keep crap on the site, it is just that these posts weren't flaggable as such.

Do downvote and comment on this answer, and as you are a trusted user, do add a delete vote for bad answers.

Is there any real concern on your table for not alienating users who dutifully & consistently spend their valuable time in order to help keeping the place in order, which concern may be (just may be) required to kick-in in situations like the specific examples described above?

As I mentioned above, we don't want to alienate any users at all. In both these cases, the flags used were wrong.

Or we are effectively treated as an army of moderating junkies, a safe bet that, however strongly we may occasionally protest, we are surely expected to come back, asking for more?

This seems like a bit of exaggeration. As a community, we are very thankful to the users for spending their time curating the content. However, if the users are doing something wrong, then it is our duty to let them know what they were doing wrong.

Or you simply don't care? And if this sounds blunt, let's rephrase it: maybe the issue is just really low in your long priorities list?

We are declining these flags because they were wrong, and we do care that users use the correct flags. Accepting the wrong flags on a post ends up with the same community users getting wrong and incorrect audits, which would probably end up with another meta "Moderators don't care about LQP reviewers?".

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  • Thank you Bhargav. Seems obvious now that users like myself & reviewers mentioned in OP may have been destroying value on the site for some time now, however unintentionally, by wrongly flagging/reviewing such posts; and god knows how many of my 1.2K flags reported as "helpful" are indeed such, or just the result of misguided reviewers (doesn't happen infrequently, as I reckon). As much as I appreciate your & Baum's efforts to make me a better reviewer, the thought that, even occasionally & unintentionally, I may be a value destroyer here, is literally unbearable, so I respectfully withdraw.
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 11:02
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    @desertnaut The life of a curator is hard enough as it is. I would recommend not to take it too hard on you, despite the mistakes made.
    – E_net4
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 12:10
  • 2
    @desertnaut fwiw the criteria for NAA and low qual are unclear. The fact these points keep coming up. We're told to downvote wrong answers, which doesn't make sense to me, deleting them would be better if the end goal is to have a site with good info IMO. If we need to read manuals of how to use the site there's a problem, it needs to be user friendly and in favour of the UX. Moderation needs to be within the "spirit of the law" not the "letter of the law" which is what is debated too often on meta unfortunately. We need to be kind to our long term users as well as our new users.
    – user3956566
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 14:22
  • @YvetteColomb sincere thanks for this breeze of common (as opposed to legal) sense. A manual we have not, a corpus we have... But my decision I have taken: I can certainly not risk being or even being perceived as a potential value destroyer, so here I go - and all happy we are
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 15:21
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    That's a bit disappointing, @desertnaut, I expected that the answer would help you to learn as to what exactly is flaggable as NAA, instead of just quitting. Anyway, I respect your decisions.
    – Bhargav Rao Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 16:29
  • 6
    @Yvette I disagree. The NaA and VLQ flags are both clear, as well as the documentation for those flags is likewise clear and bountiful. The only thing confusing matters is comments like yours and the fact that as humans we sometimes misunderstand things that are clear and we need to be corrected.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 16:37
  • Your answer did help me to realize that there is an ever-expanding set of borderline cases for which specific directives have been issued in an equally expanding & rather chaotic Meta. I knew that, before crossing the street, I had to look left & right; turns out I also have to look underneath, forward, backwards, upwards, and be on guard for cars materializing from a possible Nth dimension which I am not even aware of, otherwise I am in a real danger, not to hurt myself, but to do harm to others, i.e. to become a villain!
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 18:28
  • Turns out also I can't even rely on reviewers to watch my back (arguably their primary function), since, on average, they are at least equally clueless (examples in OP speak volumes on this). Under such circumstances, conforming to the ultimate directive First, do no harm, is seriously compromised, so thanks, but no thanks. Appreciate the respect, and let me extend my sincere best wishes to your task...
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 28, 2019 at 18:52
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First of all, thank you for taking the time to post this thorough report about possibly problematic moderator actions.

I'd like to start by saying that I did not bring up Meta in the comments because I like Meta arguments for the sake of the arguments, but because I think it is the place that provides the best platform to scrutinize my actions. I will try to justify my decisions and how I arrived at the judgment leading up to them, but if it is established that I'm doing it wrong, I agree that it is important to bring this up early so I can adjust going forward.

Now on to the actual answer (this will repeat some arguments Bhargav Rao already raised in his answer):

although of course I do expect some impressive Meta-fu to be demonstrated

The foundation of judging Not An Answer flags is the canonical When to flag an answer as “not an answer”?, which states

What NOT To Flag

Any post that attempts to answer the question—however badly—is still an answer!

This is there core guideline I think I am bound to follow – and rightfully so. As someone who had raised a five digit number of helpful flags before I was elected moderator, I feel like moderators actually applying the guidelines set by the community when handling flags is the opposite of them (now us) "not caring" or disrespecting the community moderators or the time they put in.

Having some sort of understanding of what flags to use for what between the elected moderators and the rest of the community helps the latter to efficiently and effectively moderate the site in my opinion.

Sadly, this is not the impression my actions left for you. I'm glad that we agree that no insults were intended from either side, but you ended feeling deeply insulted, and that's bad. Of course I do not at all want to alienate productive and helpful members of the site like you. Even doing this unintentionally is not acceptable; I will try to work on my communication. Let me assure you that I do value the time and effort you put into maintaining the site's quality standards.

This leads to my next point: you quoted my reply to the Moderator Election Q&A, in which I said:

To be very clear, the first thing which I care about on the site, is quality.

This is a statement I firmly stand by; making a high quality, searchable Q/A repository for programming questions is the goal I subscribe to and for which I've put in the work and time I've spent on this site.

However, I do not think this contradicts my moderator actions in question. Me caring about quality of the site does not give me the mandate to just delete posts flagged as NAA just because they are bad answers, especially if we are telling reviewers not to do that with wording as strong as A plea for sanity.


Now moving on to the actual posts in question. To recap the story of post No. 1:

You flagged it as NAA (and 3/4 reviewers agreed), downvoted and voted to delete. Then a moderator (not me) declined your NAA flag, ending the review. I can't talk for that mod, but I assume they judged the post to be an attempt to answer the question.

Then you flagged the post again, quoting the author to support your previous flag. However, even the author saying a post is not an answer does not automatically mean the post is not an answer. I tried to convey that point in my decline reason, and tried emphasizing it by removing the meta commentary to clarify the answer. As I admitted above, this evidently failed, and you felt insulted instead. Sorry for this.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with "I voted for deletion again" as you can only vote to delete a post once, but your ability to vote on the post as you see fit was not affected by any moderator action.

I did notice that another answer mentions connectivity, and provides a short explanation. You can argue that the new answer is completely redundant, and I'm honestly not married to "let it stay" from that point of view. However, that was not the point raised in the flag I was reviewing, and as this was not a case of a question being drowned in identical answers (which do deserve a clean-up), I figured to leave it to the standard content ranking via votes. (I did not notice the deleted answer addressing connectivity, but I'm not sure that would have changed anything.)


Regarding the second post: I hope we can agree that telling someone to accept an answer when there is no answer that can be accepted is not useful. That review comment should not have been posted because OP literally cannot follow its advice.

In this case, the original NAA-flags were handled by me. I again applied the guideline of not NAA-deleting attempts to answer, and thus declined the flags. Bhargav raises a good additional point noting that also creates invalid audits.

As posting your own answer is the recommended course of action for questions answered only in the comments, I figured the answer in itself needs no further treatment. The question is still off-topic, and I closed it as such.

Bhargav Rao later deleting the comments and editing the post was an independent decision he justifies in his own answer. Just for the record, I did reply to your comment on that answer, too, but that might have been removed before it reached you.

I hope this explains the reasoning behind my actions sufficiently well. Please let me know if you still disagree.


Last, to directly address your questions from the TL;DR:

Is there any real concern on your table for not alienating users who dutifully & consistently spend their valuable time in order to help keeping the place in order, which concern may be (just may be) required to kick-in in situations like the specific examples described above?

I was truly concerned right after I read your comment stating I made you feel like a "useless idiot". This is the very opposite of what I'm trying to achieve while moderating; making the site mostly useful, but hopefully also fun to use, for both new and especially also veteran users is a big priority for me.

Valuable users leaving needlessly over my actions is something I hope to avoid, and I hope the above explanation of my intentions and motivation helps getting the bad taste out of your mouth.

I guess the above paragraphs imply my answer to the other two questions you stated.

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    Thank you Baum; I do appreciate both your intentions and your tone here.
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 27, 2019 at 23:18
  • I have summarized my conclusions & decisions in comments to the other answers here, in case you are interested. Rest assured that your actions have not left any bad taste in my mouth, only a bittersweet one, especially after the subsequent deletion of both posts that initially triggered my OP (I know of course that these deletions can be legally justified, without the slightest contradiction with your arguments here, which indeed make perfect legal sense). Cannot accept your answer, but upvoted it I have. As already said (and meant), I wish you all the best in your moderating duties...
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 29, 2019 at 10:25
-5

If in doubt raise a custom mod flag

For the first post

The flagged answer essentially said the same thing as an existing answer, but with no explanation .

Your system needs to be online at the time you are building the project first time for the dependencies you have added. Dependencies are downloaded from the google and jcenter servers. After you build the project then you don't need internet connection because dependencies will be available offline.

compared to:

In my case, the source of the error was that I wasn't connected to the internet.

In future raise a custom mod flag saying it's repeating an existing answer. Mods will go through the flag queue and not always compare an answer to existing answers, and on it's own it does read like an answer (just). Although when seeing a flag on a post like that, I'm generally curious enough to investigate further, as it does read like a comment.

I have a custom auto comment when deleting answers like this:

This answer doesn't add anymore information that is already provided in the previous answers. Try not to duplicate content. See How do I write a good answer?.

Another comment I use in cases like this is:

Stack Overflow is not a forum. Answers boxes are for solutions only. See how to ask and answer.

As it reads like a comment saying "me too" to another answer and many people mistake Stack Overflow for a forum style site.

The downside of custom mod flags

Is they don't bump the post into the low quality review queues, it means the mods only will see the post. I'm a believer in allowing the community to curate the site as much as possible and allow the mods to be exception handlers.

Try to flag bad questions, not the answers

The second example you give is to a bad question. I encourage people to flag to close the question, rather than flag the bad answer. By closing and deleting the question the root cause of the problem is solved.

I totally agree with some of the incentives in the comment thread you mentioned and my answer here supports this.

We are a literal bunch of people in many ways and the way we handled our moderating tasks on the site reflects this.

IMO to punish users with a -1 loss of rep to downvote bad answers so they are 'faded out' is an ineffective way to curate the site.

We need to focus on the "spirit of the law" not the "letter of the law" when curating the site. Does this post bring value to the site? Yes/No, could do with editing.

Due to the prickly nature of Not an answer and low quality flag and the lack of tools to adequately remove low quality posts off the site, I think it's time we revisited our flagging practices and removed some of this stuff from the site. I've not agreed with keeping "wrong" or bad or redundant answers on the site, but have honoured the "way" in how we do things. At some point common sense needs to prevail if we're not going to alienate our contributors from the site.

Conflict and confusion when moderators handle these flags

You mention the post already had delete votes on it.

The community does tend to delete these types of answers when they make it through the review queues, it's when the mods handle these queues that many posts will make it through and flags are declined. At some point we need to ask, should we just be deleting this stuff?

Clearly we have disagreement within the community and differences of moderation style. My attitude to declining flags is generally to teach people how to flag, there's limitation within the scope of a decline reason to do that and it's further confounded when moderators are also a little different in how we perceive things. This isn't necessarily bad, as we were all elected to represent the community and it's differences.

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    Thank you Yvette; I cannot help but notice that yours is the only response explicitly mentioning value. As an ex-military, I can certainly relate with the necessity of having certain ways for doing things and honoring them; and from such a perspective, I can fully understand the rationale of the other answers here. Thing is, we need to be in constant vigilance to ensure that these ways do serve the objective, and they have not just acquired a self-preserving life of their own, thus becoming possible liabilities instead of assets.
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 29, 2019 at 9:29
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    In any case, I will hereby abide by the community judgement, which, at a vote balance of -16 currently, has unambiguously decided that the concerns raised here are neither useful nor constructive - so, let's just bury them and walk on with our lives...
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 29, 2019 at 9:34
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    This answer serves only to further confuse flaggers and create an us-versus-them rhetoric that doesn't need to exist. We have, and always have had, at least one very very good reason for moderators not deleting wrong answers. That is that moderators cannot be expected to be knowledgeable enough in all areas that the site covers such that they can accurately evaluate whether or not an answer is wrong. That is what downvotes and delete votes from users who do have adequate domain knowledge are for. Moderators have a job, and it isnt deleting wrong answers.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 29, 2019 at 15:14
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    If you don't like that, as a moderator, deleting wrong answers is not your job, you should not go muddying the waters for everyone else on the site. I'm not going to pretend to tell you what you should do in such a situation, but making everyone else's lives more confusing and difficult just because you dont like your job description is not beneficial to anyone.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 29, 2019 at 15:18
  • 2
    @TinyGiant please notice that there is nothing (repeat, nothing) in the OP, either in letter or in spirit, regarding wrong answers. Absolutely nothing. Even in this answer, the term is mentioned just once, superficially and arguably in a very general level, and even then it is quoted ("wrong", not wrong). And for what it may worth, me being the OP with currently -20 votes, I really don't feel anyone standing "versus" or "against" me; we're just having a polite & civilized discussion, nothing more, nothing less, and certainly no hard feelings...
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 29, 2019 at 23:05
  • @desertnaut I was referring to the latter half of this answer which is just a rather large opinion statement about wanting to change the rules around the deletion of content. I was also not saying that you were part of the us-vs-them rhetoric. That comment was also about the wanting to change the rules around the deletion of content by moderators to bring light to the fact that those rules are not arbitrary, but rather extremely necessary. At no point in the comments under this answer was I talking about or referring to you until now.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 14:59
  • @TinyGiant I hear what you intended to say, but arguably this was not what you actually said; and since this "us-vs-them" was even hinted at in a thread which I initiated, I felt I should intervene to clarify where I am standing, even if you did not intend to include myself in it (which intention was in any case not clear, until now).
    – desertnaut
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 15:12
  • @desertnaut no i said what i meant to say and that has nothing to do with you or your post at all. It is only concerning the content of this post, the post the comment was posted under. Again it has nothing to do with you or your post and is not referring to you or your post.
    – user4639281
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 15:24

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