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Question

So through the comments it became clear that the user just wants an answer and doesn't really want to take the time to learn. I hesitated to post my last comment, but I strongly want this user to understand that I strongly disagree with their outlook on their issue.

Is this improper? Should I just down vote and move on?

Comments referenced in question

11
  • 18
    Downvoting and moving on is generally more productive.
    – yivi
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:40
  • 3
    If someone told you to keep trying to explain the problem to someone who was actively telling you to stop what would your response be?
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:40
  • 1
    @Taplar If someone posted an answer to this meta question saying you shouldn't move on and you should keep trying to explain the answer, what would you say?
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:42
  • 2
    Related: But seriously. How to be nice when trying to say the code is crap?
    – duplode
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:43
  • You mean telling me to disregard the OPs stance on the issue, and just to answer the question? I'd probably delete my comments to the post, since by that notion it would suggest my comments were not the way to go, and let others who don't find an issue with it answer the question. @Servy
    – Taplar
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:45
  • 1
    @Taplar So in other words you asked a question in which you only consider the answer you've already stated as a valid answer. So why bother asking the question if you've already made up your mind what you're going to do? I'm not saying your decision is wrong, but if you've already decided that you're done interacting with the question why ask us what interaction you should have with the question? Just move on, since that's what you want to do (and it's certainly an acceptable course of action).
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:48
  • 1
    I'm asking, from a community standpoint, if this is acceptable, or if there are guidelines against it. The general response I'm feeling is engaging with the user is usually seen as a negative thing, and just to vote and move on.
    – Taplar
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:52
  • 5
    @Taplar Engaging with the user is fine. What doesn't tend to work well is continuing the engagement once it is clear the other party isn't listening.
    – duplode
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:56
  • 5
    Someone with more than 10k should probably edit this question with an anonymized screenshot of the question & comments, since it's been removed.
    – yivi
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 19:02
  • 1
    Wow comments like this can really piss people off. I actually applaud you for still keeping your cool. Other people(e.g. me) in a particularly bad mood could have probably said worse. What I do to stop myself from doing so is to really just stop . Disengage from the question entirely and search images of unicorns or something. Some people on our field are really just in it for the social status(?) or the pay. These are the people that will really never learn or put an effort to learning so yeah. Just downvote and move on.
    – Keale
    Commented May 16, 2018 at 1:07
  • 1
    The second-to-last comment ("thank you for your unnecessary moral") may deserve a flag. It really annoy me.
    – user202729
    Commented May 16, 2018 at 4:23

3 Answers 3

16

*sigh*

The way I'm going to phrase this is guaranteed to rub you the wrong way, so I'll just say it.

You were both in the wrong.

The OP was in the wrong for posting a question that is at best incomplete; it outlines some code that they've got but it doesn't actually agree with their picture. Had the OP invested time and energy into their question, we'd be able to see exactly the structure of their table and see if they had anything else on it that could interfere.

The best thing that could happen to their question right now is for it to be closed so they can take the time to actually edit in the code that they're missing.

You were in the wrong for antagonizing the OP. Yes, I get it; they should know a thing or two about the framework that they're asking on, but once you recognize that they don't understand, there are two choices you can make:

  • Start teaching them about the framework (which is too broad anyway), or
  • Walk away from the question.

Instead of the condescending-sounding question of, "$('.table_caption_H').css("color", "black"); <= what do you think that does?", You should have just walked away. This way, at worst, the OP feels like we're being antagonizing and oppressive to him and his learning experience rather than him having first-hand experience of an actual person commentating on how they should learn before asking.

No really, I get it. You have a limit as to how much you're going to help someone. I get that, and I respect it - I do too. But you should absolutely restrain yourself when it becomes crystal clear that the OP is not going to make their question any easier to answer. Your comments literally harmed whatever message of "please do some research before asking" you had there.

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  • 4
    I guess that's on me. I didn't intended the first comment to be taken as condescending. It was intended as a "look at this. do you understand what this does?" thing. But I guess since others say that, I'm missing that.
    – Taplar
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:50
  • @Taplar: I get that it's hard to miss. I'm often with family members or friends that don't know a lot of what I do. They then have the power to turn that around on me. "Hey Makoto, do you know what THIS formula means for data analysts??" Over time, one learns that there's not just a slice of humble pie for them, but a few pies with their name on it.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:51
  • 7
    Asking what the question author's current level of understanding of something is is not inappropriate. It's an entirely reasonable question, and it's not antagonizing or condescending. Being condescending would mean just assuming they don't know anything and explaining it as if they knew nothing about the topic at all. Asking what they do and don't understand, and then explaining what they don't understand, is literally the opposite of that.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:52
  • 3
    @Servy: It's also a grand waste of time. What could have been closed in maybe a half-hour tops has now inspired a Meta post and left an indelible impression on someone that we're "jerks". I mean, their post was bad, but now we have to live with that and the stigma.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:53
  • 2
    @Makoto Sure, you can certainly argue that trying to learn what a question author does and doesn't understand, and then explaining what they don't understand is a waste of time. But that doesn't mean it's condescending, antagonistic, or otherwise inappropriate. That said, if you think figuring out what a question author doesn't understand and then explaining that thing is a waste of time...that's why we're all here, no?
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:55
  • @Servy: I kind of view a scenario in which the OP doesn't quite understand what they've gotten themselves into and has a question here that they can't help us answer like one who doesn't understand how to debug their code. We have to assume some minimal level of understanding here. There may be better ways to broach the question but the OP didn't really do a good job of that since, to a bystander like myself, it read like it was condescending.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:57
  • 1
    Yeah, it would have probably been more clear if it had been something like "Do you understand what ..... is doing" or "Can you tell me what you are trying to do with this statement?" I'd agree with that.
    – Taplar
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:59
  • 3
    I don't think there's a way to question someone's intelligence without someone somewhere seeing it as condescending.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 19:00
  • 3
    @Makoto But they were asking what their level of understanding of the topic was. You, by just assuming that they must not have a minimal level of understanding of the topic and dismissing them out of hand is being condescending. Someone else asking them how much of the topic they understand instead of making that assumption is not. Now I agree with you that someone who doesn't have a sufficient level of understanding of the topics at hand can't get an answer here, but that doesn't mean asking them how much they understand is being condescending.
    – Servy
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 19:01
  • funny thing was i was about to ask a question about keeping elements selected in HTML.... Commented May 15, 2018 at 20:41
  • Although I agree that asking "what do you understand" is not bad, ideally OP should already explain what exactly didn't they understand in the question itself, and questions without that should have been voted to close. Asking is only better (for the OP, assume they're trying to learn, and assume the other user doesn't end up being rude (although rude is perceived differently by different people)), not worse.
    – user202729
    Commented May 16, 2018 at 4:22
  • "learning experience" Commented May 23, 2018 at 3:21
12

I would have given up sooner, and that says a lot coming from me.

If someone is being difficult ("thank you for the unnecessary moral"), rarely does pushing it help anything, even if you're in the right, and even if you're polite. Once it's clear that they're in the "answer the question or gtfo" mood, I drop it. Forcing the matter just leads to nasty remarks, and I don't contribute to SO to get stressed out.

I wish there was a reasonable resolve to every case, but as I'm increasingly learning, not everyone wants to listen.

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  • Wow.... You would've given up before the OP here? Can I trouble you for a screenshot of the now deleted post? You are one of the users we have that I consider the most patient... So curiosity is hitting hard here....
    – Patrice
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 22:11
  • 1
    @Patrice Ha. I'm trying to get better/worse, depending on how you want to look at it. I've wasted enough time historically on people who just repeat things like "I have no idea,explaint it to me please" to know that those conversations rarely end well. And I added a picture in the question. Commented May 15, 2018 at 22:28
-5

I would recommend that you should downvote and move on if the question or code is of poor quality, often indicated by the lack of formatting, the lack of providing a Minimal, Verifiable, and Complete solution.

However, if there is a solution or at least a method of getting the asker closer to the solution, just consider posting a comment, giving tips how to solve, and if necessary, steps to improve their code.

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  • 1
    Answers in comments? Eeeeek!
    – Makoto
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:54
  • Why not answers in comments? Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:54
  • 3
    Because comments are for comments. Answers belong in the answer box. If you're going to answer the question, then just answer the question.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 15, 2018 at 18:55
  • "Why not answers in comments?" - You're free to do it, just don't advise people to do it as it is technically abusing the site features for things they're not intended for.
    – Gimby
    Commented May 23, 2018 at 8:44
  • In the case of low-quality duplicates, answering in a comment seems to discourage rep-trollops who would post answers rather than pointing to the existing answers on better quality dupe targets. Commented Dec 27, 2018 at 18:59

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