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Honestly I'm starting to feel sympathy for the OPs in this circumstance:

  • They ask a question here which looks like some code review of some description, but it really isn't
  • They get a comment directing them to Code Review
  • They delete their post and repost there (or cross-post)
  • They get a bunch of flak for not reading the tour and understand what questions are acceptable there (which is fair)
  • We (Stack Overflow) get blamed a bit since we were the ones that gave that poor OP the advice to post it on Code Review

The main thing is that I grow weary of commentators "phoning it in" and instantly thinking, "Oh, this looks like a code review. I should tell them to go to Code Review," when in reality it ain't. One way to help would be to allow comment flags which have some information to that effect to be eligible for instant deletion.

Thoughts?

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    Honestly even the questions that are asking for a code review still don't meet CR's quality standards for a post, so just telling them to repost there is still problematic. Most of these bad "post on CR" comments that I end up noticing are posted to questions that really are asking for a code review, it's just not a quality post.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 20:51
  • 11
    Isn't this question more suited for Code Review Meta? ... But jokes aside, if such comment can be deleted instantly with a flag, then this should be tied to the current reputation counter (either here or on code review). I don't think someone without much experience on either site can judge that good enough to insta-delete a comment. Their flag can be handled the usual way.
    – Tom
    Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 20:54
  • 2
    @Tom: I wouldn't want to tie this to any rep check. Despite the fact that there are reputable Code Review members on Stack Overflow, they already know how to migrate questions from here to there. Those that don't, well...comment.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 20:55
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    @Tom: I'm regarding any comments made to "just post on Code Review" in the same vein as "what have you tried". There is existing precedent that these style flags are supported irrespective of reputation level. I don't think rep needs to be involved at all, since the few of us who actually do care about moderation know of this mechanism and what purpose it holds (and have, well, sufficient knowledge of the site).
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 21:01
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    I don't mind admitting that I have pointed questions asking for a code review to CodeReview.SE. That is because it's up to the OP to decide. However, lately I have been careful (mostly) to point out that they'd better make sure their code runs without errors (usually it doesn't) and they'd better read the CR.SE rules (usually they don't, sez my inner imp).
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 21:18
  • 40
    I've been saying for a long time now that we should migrate/recommend nothing. Suggesting that an OP might consider checking the rules/policy of site X to see if their might be on-topic there does not work well - the OP's just don't bother - they immediately migrate their question. Just off-topic it, no more. If they were at all bothered by rules, they would not have posted their off-topic Q. to SO in the first place. Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 21:21
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    SO user: "I think you won't get an answer, you might have better luck at codereview". Doesn't get an answer, posts at codereview. Codereview user: "moron, read the tour first". Quiz: which user dealt with this most constructively? And which user did not bother to read the site guidance? And which user thought that clicking the Submit button was way easier than asking for help from a more experienced team member? My left foot knows those answers. I'll limp away now. Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 22:38
  • 4
    Whoa, the user that posted the codereview advice was in fact a user that is primarily active at codereview. Well, don't leave that juicy little tidbit out. Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 22:40
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    I don't understand why questions that might even genuinely involve some requests for code review are considered OT on SO. I re-read the SO tour just now but it doesn't sound like asking for advice on how to improve or optimize some snippet of code would be OT on SO -- it might just not be as ideal of a place to ask for it as CR which is specially made for that purpose. It's like questions related to game programming aren't necessarily OT on SO by its standards even if there's a 'gamedev' site.
    – user4842163
    Commented Jan 23, 2018 at 23:05
  • 8
    @TeamUpvote: Two things there: someone asking for a code review of their code is generally too broad here, and answers can't be considered "off-topic" (but the question they're attached to can certainly be). For your sake you should read up on the history that Code Review and Stack Overflow have between themselves; they explicitly don't want to be a dumping ground for every review-like question and we don't want to send them over that way, either.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 0:01
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    I you suggest, hint, comment, recommend, whatever, that a Q might be better off posted at CR, then YOU should make sure that the Q abides by the rulses/policy of CR. That means you have to test it yourself. You cannot rely on OP's statements that, eg. 'the code works'. Every day, Q's are posted claiming behaviour X upon running but, upon attempting to reproduce, users find that the code does not even compile. Users lie, so you should to test the code for 'working', (whatever that means). before mentioning CR. Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 0:17
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    @MartinJames, No. It's not the commenter's responsibility. Ultimately, the responsibility for the question and where it's posted rests solely with the OP. It is certainly not some commenter's responsibility to test the OP's code prior to giving the OP the information that review of functional code is appropriate on Code Review. I might agree that it's the responsible thing to do for the the commenter's to remind the OP to read the CR on-topic page prior to posting, but that's just mitigating the fact that OPs tend to act instead of think and investigate what's appropriate.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 3:51
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    @Makyen [noise....] Code Review [noise....] D'oh - I post there. Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 4:24
  • 4
    @MartinJames, Unfortunately, that's not inaccurate.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 4:41
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    Every time the topic of migration to Code Review comes up, I question if those who leave such comments actually know what a code review is ("bonus" points if they conduct code reviews on a regular basis as part of their job). I was under the impression that it was a very, very specific term.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 15:28

2 Answers 2

16

TL, DR:

In an ideal world, many Stack Overflow users would be educated enough and using comments like T.J. Crowder suggested in their answer after carefully considering suggesting CR... but we all know that with the amount of traffic and new users coming daily, it's difficult for everyone to know about this, and if there are ways to automate some of the moderation, it would be a great service to everyone involved.


More details

Having been a regular on Code Review for years, and knowing many of the regulars as well as moderators, I echo that it's a relief that this is being discussed on Stack Overflow.

As was mentioned by gnat in a comment on the OP, the method we have been using for the last few years involves a lot of manual intervention on our part to try to reduce frustration for SO users who are referred to CR.

those interested in closer study / sampling / statistics of comments (mis)leading askers to CR.SE can find most if not all of them conveniently listed in Duga messages to CR.SE chat room (over 16 thousands examples) – gnat Jan 26 at 8:47

The comments loosely fall into a few categories:

1. Inappropriate / Unacceptable comments

We've all seen this type, usually goes something like:

"I'm voting to close this question because it belongs on [other site]",

"This question is off-topic because it belongs on [other site]".

Whether the other site is Code Review or not, we all know that that is not and has never been a valid close reason. We at CR have been fighting this behavior through manual intervention on SO (which often turn into arguments which are irrelevant to the question itself).

These can be very frustrating to us (CR regulars), SO users who have made the comment, and to the OP especially if this is their first experience on SO. If there was a way to somehow auto-flag these kinds of comments and delete them, that would certainly be a huge improvement.

2. Misinformed comments

These comments, while not falling into category 1, can be misleading if the person making them...

  • Haven't read the question thoroughly to understand what the OP is asking for

  • Are not as familiar with what is "answerable" on SO (while it may be on-topic on another site, it may also be fine on SO)

  • Are not familiar with what is on-topic and what makes a good question on Code Review

As was mentioned in the question:

The main thing is that I grow weary of commentators "phoning it in" and instantly thinking, "Oh, this looks like a code review. I should tell them to go to Code Review," when in reality it ain't.

If we are able to catch those in time, through manual moderating from CR regulars/mods, we can try to prevent a frustrating experience with questions being cross-posted / removed from SO when really they would have been fine on SO, or will not be very good for CR.

An example of this kind of question we see fairly regularly that (in my humble opinion) would be better SO questions than CR, while still being generally on-topic at CR...

I have this code/algorithm that does X, I'm not happy with it, does someone know a different way of achieving X?

While it sounds like a code review request, and the code is working, it really isn't a code review they are looking for, and I think this would be an answerable programming problem/question on SO.

3. Good, informative comments

This is the kind of comment that T.J. Crowder suggested in their answer. The comment is good (as long as the context is appropriate) because:

  1. It states what they perceive the intention of the OP is (help improving working code)

  2. It suggests that it may be a better fit on another site (in other words, it's not off-topic on SO, but they may benefit more on CR)

  3. It recommends the tour, help center, and as a bonus even a link to the on-topic page on CR, which is excellent "customer service", so-to-speak

Encouraging more of these through education of users is something we should definitively work towards and commend.

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On the relatively-rare occasions I suggest to an OP that their question may be better-suited to CR, I use some variation of this comment:

Since (or "If" when it's not clear) you're asking for help improving working code, this may be a better fit over at https://codereview.stackexchange.com, but be sure to take their tour and read their help first, particularly What topics can I ask about here?

So if "post on Code Review" comments were disallowed, I'd suggest that ones containing links to (say) the CR tour or help should be exempt from that, on the basis they probably are suggesting that the OP do their due diligence.

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    I'd still caution against using this on just any question that asks for help improving code, and that the onus still falls on the commenter to use their best judgement. This CR Meta post is a great, comprehensive guide to deciding when a question belongs on SO and when on CR. Anyone who has performed code reviews should be able to tell when a question is in fact a code review and when not - and certainly, a question isn't one solely because it asks for help improving working code.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 8:30
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    @BoltClock: "the onus still falls on the commenter to use their best judgement" Agreed. The onus is also on the OP to use their best judgement after referring to the linked resources. :-) Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 8:32
  • 2
    Totally keeping that CR meta link in my back pocket! And probably adding it to the stock comment above... Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 8:34
  • Yeah, I should have included the word "also" in that sentence (in case anyone asks).
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 8:41
  • Playing the devil's advocate here, but does it not indicate that if someone posts such a question on Stack Overflow in the first place, "the OP do their due diligence" was obviously not something they'd considered before asking? You might as well point to the exact same pages in SO's help.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 9:47
  • 1
    @usr2564301: And I often do. I have several stock comments in my bookmarklets... :-) Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 9:51
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    My biggest fear is that this may completely undermine the point. "Putting the onus on the OP" is a nice thought, but by and large I don't trust them to do that, especially given that they hadn't thought to look at Stack Overflow's own tour or help guide to determine if their question was on topic here in the first place.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 18:47
  • 2
    @Makoto If OPs can't be trusted to do due diligence, we should just block all new questions. ...That might be an improvement, actually.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 23:07
  • 2
    @jpmc26: Ironically I would be somewhat in favor of a rolling blackout-like "feature"...but that's not quite my point. I don't want the OP to get the notion to post on Code Review from us, because then we'd own the blame for sending them over there to begin with. If the OP were really going to do any due diligence, they'd start by looking through the network to see if their question actually had a natural home. Or, they'd ask on Meta Stack Exchange first.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 24, 2018 at 23:08
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    @Makoto: "I don't want the OP to get the notion to post on Code Review from us, because then we'd own the blame for sending them over there to begin with." No, I don't think so. If you tell someone an option exists but they should do their research first to ensure they use it properly, and they use it improperly, that's on them, not you. Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 6:39
  • 2
    Understand that fundamentally, I agree with you. My philosophy is simpler: I see no value in bothering to explain that their question may be on-topic over there, and ask them to check the FAQ and tour to be sure of it. Moral high ground and the knowledge that I did my due diligence aside, if I don't have to introduce this as a risk, I don't wanna.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 25, 2018 at 23:19

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