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Downvoting is an essential part of Stack Overflow to me. It helps to slow down fastest guns in the west, moves bad answers down the page, encourages to improve / delete incomplete / wrong answers, and helps to get rid of garbage.

Downvotes on answers are not honored. I propose to introduce badges for five downvotes on answers (bronze), 250 downvotes on answers (silver), and 5000 downvotes on answers (gold).

Downvotes on answers cost one reputation point each, so if someone is gaming for the gold badge, it will cost 5k rep—an unlikely scenario.

Proposals for suitable badge names are welcome as answers (so that they can be downvoted, of course!).

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  • 33
    it will cost 5k rep ... only if you cast those votes on answers that in the end don't get deleted. I assume users down vote stuff that is not useful, not to crank up their stats or, if this gets implemented, their badges.
    – rene
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 6:57
  • 105
    You mean, honor downvotes WITH COMMENT, right?
    – Cœur
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 8:29
  • 42
    @rene That's just the point. If you downvote answers that get deleted, you're probably not gaming the system. Downvoting good answers that never get deleted (which people shouldn't do) will cost 5k rep, but downvoting bad answers that get deleted (which people should do) won't cost much. Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 11:07
  • 53
    @Cœur No, no he doesn’t.
    – Dan Bron
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 12:17
  • 5
    Erm, how do I opt out of this? I don't feel particularly inclined to assist some horseshoe who needs one moar to get his scrap of html. But surely I'm missing the point. What is the point? Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 14:59
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    The point is to encourage people to cast more downvotes on answers, @Hans. Although badges are just scraps of HTML, they do seem to be pretty effective motivators for many of our users.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 15:12
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    Hmya @Cody, it was rhetorical. Why not remove the DV penalty? Why not award badges for upvotes instead? Did you ever need a badge to DV anything? What kind of users do? 90% of the time I UV a good answer and meh a bad one. If the answer is a true time-waster, costing the reader an hour of his life, then I DV. We don't have enough posts that show how to not do it. A bad answer is an excellent motivator to post a better one, that's just not necessary when it is DVed. Obligatory xkcd link. Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 15:24
  • 6
    Seems to me that you should only get credit towards the badge if you downvote an answer that is subsequently deleted. On the other hand, too many downvotes on answers that don't get deleted should result in suspension of the downvote privilege. Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 21:25
  • 33
    @Cœur: No, he doesn't mean WITH COMMENTS. Nor should comments be mandatory on downvotes.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 22:22
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    @rene "it will cost 5k rep ... only if you cast those votes on answers that in the end don't get deleted." Interesting, but what is your stance on downvoting wrong answers? Based on what I read about the flagging criteria, it looks like wrong answers can't be deleted, only non-answers, so votes on wrong answers would just cost rep.
    – jrh
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 23:22
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    @user3386109 That doesn't really make sense. There are valid reasons to downvote a non-delete-worthy answer, the most common one being that it's factually incorrect. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 2:51
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    @rene: you are close to it, but not entirely. There are dead-wrong answers having tons of upvotes, because they looked good and a lot of people vote based on that without ever trying the solution. When users with more understanding (or time) show up, it requires enough of them having the privilege to downvote and no fear of the reputation loss to compensate for the upvotes that costed nothing. For example, this answer got 51 upvotes and 30 downvotes and you can see that it took more than a year before the first comment told that it doesn’t work.
    – Holger
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 8:46
  • 5
    @Nisarg Shah: I’m not the one who made that proposal. But it looks like a good starting point for discussing a well-known issue. It’s understandable why upvotes are cheaper than downvotes on Stackoverflow, on the other hand, having free upvotes and costly downvotes combines in a bad way with the little attention span of the majority of the crowd…
    – Holger
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 8:56
  • 7
    I have always considered this 1 rep-point DV system flawed. If an answer is plain wrong, it should get downvoted, comma. The only reason why most of them never get downvoted is that people don't want to lose one point rep. explanations like the one here are NOT explaining anything to me about the Why it costs 1 point. Half way to solve this would be to at least let people having a certain rep threshold (or a tag bronze badge) to downvote the answers for free.
    – Thomas G
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 12:39
  • 7
    @user3386109 and if "Fastest Gun" isn't wanted on SO, then disable voting until the 5min editing Cooldown is over IMHO.
    – Nope
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:54

6 Answers 6

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We sort of have a badge to encourage people to at least cast the first downvote, called "critic", which recent awarded list surprise me, since most of those are less than 500 reputation users. Also, like everything in life, we would like a courter balance for these badges, the same critic has "supporter".

I don't think the problem is that people don't down vote enough, is that people don't vote enough and prefer to use up votes instead of down votes because loss aversion, which causes the skewness. If you see anonymous voting you will notice that only 62% of all casted votes are upvotes, compared to the 88% of all the users votes (this number is obviously skewed, since up voting is a 15 rep privilege, meanwhile down voting is 125 one), which makes evident that the play field isn't actually level.

You want to motivate people to down vote more? Make downvoting the same as upvoting and I'm pretty sure that the numbers would approach the 6:4 ratio rather than the current 9:1 in couple years.

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    "Critic" is also awarded for downvoting a question, isn't? Downvoting might seem to be negative. Offering a badge would signal that it is ok to downvote. Similar to fouling in basketball, to some extend it is not dirty but part of the game.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 5:49
  • 6
    It's a bronze badge, it's expected that mostly newbies get it.
    – Nemo
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 7:12
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    I tend not to downvote things (unless they are really really bad and wrong) because I don't want to be mean. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 10:57
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    @Yvonne You don't have to care about the feelings of the user, just as the user (generally) doesn't care if he posts bad content. Also remember you are not judging a user or his efforts, you are judging the usefulness and quality of the post.
    – Tim
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 11:15
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    @YvonneAburrow It's not mean to downvote. It's part of the game. A badge might help clarifying this.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 11:15
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    @Yvonne agree. I rather comment and tell them why it won't work or what is wrong. If they don't fix it within a reasonable time I downvote.
    – Andreas
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 11:23
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    @TimCastelijns I feel sad if someone downvotes my answer (especially if they don't comment to explain why). I do downvote questions where it's obvious that the person did zero research, though. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 12:11
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    @YvonneAburrow Why would you be so mean to future readers of the post as to leave them uninformed that the post in question is problematic, potentially resulting in them using, or attempting to use, a bad post instead of realizing that it isn't a good post from the start.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:04
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    @Andreas I never said that downvoting was the only way to help. But downvoting answers that aren't helpful is helpful, and refusing to downvote an answer that isn't helpful means that you're being less helpful than someone who is downvoting bad posts. By not indicating that bad posts are bad, people are going to, at best, waste time also figuring out that they're bad, and at worst, using them because they aren't able to figure out that they're bad. If someone else has their own opinion, they can reflect it in their own vote, you should use your vote to reflect your views.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 18:10
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    If you think the answer is actually a good answer, then sure, don't downvote it. But refusing to downvote answers that you think are bad answers, and that aren't helpful is being harmful. If you personally feel that you're not qualified to judge the quality of an answer, then by all means, refrain from voting (and likewise, don't upvote answers if you don't feel that you're in a position to judge their quality). If you refuse to ever downvote a post out of fear that you might be wrong, then why don't you refuse to upvote posts, out of fear that you might be wrong?
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 19:42
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    @Servy. This kind of argument only really works for posts which end up with a negative score. The most "harmful" posts are usually much less obviously bad, and they can often have a large positive score, even though they also receive a large number of downvotes. Most users can't see these downvotes (because they have < 1000 rep). So I think downvoting can be far less helpful than you suggest. If nobody ever bothers to explain why a post is bad (either in comments or answers), all those hidden downvotes become worse than useless.
    – ekhumoro
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 20:49
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    @Servy. I didn't say it was bad. I said it is often ineffective, because, unlike upvotes, downvotes cannot be seen by a lot of users (unless there is a net negative score). By itself, downvoting is never enough. There must be explanation as well. Without that, downvoters are just collectively abdicating their responsibility to the community.
    – ekhumoro
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 20:59
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    @ekhumoro You said it was mean. It's not mean. Refusing to downvote bad content is what's mean. Downvoting a bad post is being helpful and considerate for others. There are lots of other things that you can also do that are helpful, such as explaining to someone how a post can be improved, or posting your own better answer, and none of those options are mutually exclusive.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 21:01
  • 2
    @Servy. I did not use the word "mean" in any of my comments. I said that hidden downvotes alone are useless. They do not and cannot help anyone who cannot see them. Downvoting is a crude, scattergun way of indicating that there are problems with a post. There needs to be a better way of making it obvious to users that some posts should be treated with caution.
    – ekhumoro
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 21:13
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    @Servy - if the post is really awful, I do downvote. Some people appear to downvote for insufficient detail (which would be better fixed with a comment suggesting more detail) Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 10:00
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The major problem with this is that, unlike close voting, downvoting is completely anonymous, and there's not really an agreed-upon standard for when you should (or shouldn't) downvote. That being said, it's essentially impossible to measure how good of a job someone is doing downvoting (unless we also want to create a standard for that and de-anonymize voting) and not even an agreed-upon definition of what this would mean.

There are multiple checks and balance in place for close voting as well as accountability. There is also recourse for mistakes. There are review audits in the close vote queue, so you can get temporary bans if you're doing a bad job. When a question is closed, you know who voted to close and why. If people feel that their question shouldn't have been closed, they can appeal to the original closer voters in comments, the SOCVR, or Meta. Plus there's also the Reopen Queue.

There is no such accountability for downvotes. If you feel that someone downvoted your post unfairly, there's no recourse - there's no mandatory explanation (for reasons that have been discussed extensively elsewhere), no way to tell who downvoted, and no "undownvote queue." These things are unlikely to change (nor am I arguing here that they should).

That being said, that's why you can get badges for working the review queues but not for downvoting. There's a way to critique how well you're reviewing, an agreed-upon definition of what constitute valid close vote reasons, and a recourse for mistakes. These simply don't exist for downvoting, so it doesn't make sense to give badges when we can't even audit how well they're doing. For all we know, someone could downvote 1000 posts at full random and get a badge. I'm not saying that that's happening commonly right now, but it could happen. In fact, given the anonymous nature of voting, it's difficult to prove that it's not already happening.

Badges should reward "good" behavior on the site. Votes aren't intrinsically "good" behavior; good voting is good behavior. We can know whether people are close voting well, but we don't know if people are downvoting well.

One more point: do many users actually consciously seek out badges? If not, adding a badge wouldn't make any difference in the majority of people's behavior and this change would be largely pointless. After all, the entire point is to encourage people to downvote more often, and if it didn't do that it wouldn't help.

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    The random downvoting costs rep; unlikely to happen. I don't see your argument, as other actions even about posting questions are disputed what is right and what wrong.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:17
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    @usr1234567 I'm not saying that it's likely that people would do that, just that we have no way to know whether people downvote for good reasons or not. Badges should reward "good" behavior, and we don't know if downvotes are "good" behavior. Downvoting bad posts is good behavior, but downvoting good posts that meet community standards is actually bad behavior. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:18
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    Same happens with robo-review and minor mass edits.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:21
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    @usr1234567 That's why they have review audits, though. If you're not paying attention when you review, odds are you'll eventually get banned and/or have your reviews reversed or "age away." You need to get 4 other people to agree with you in order to close a question, but you can unilaterally downvote and have it apply instantly. You also can't get banned from downvoting. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:22
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    @usr1234567 So given that, as you've said, those other badges cause significant problems in those areas (even when there are some (limited) defenses in those areas) why would you also want to do that to yet another area?
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:38
  • a) Gamification. b) Indicate that downvotes are not bad per se. c) Encourage downvotes.
    – usr1234567
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:45
  • 3
    @usr1234567 I agree that downvotes aren't bad per se, but they're not intrinsically good, either. Downvoting genuinely bad posts is good, and downvoting genuinely good posts is bad. (The latter actually seems to be happening on a fairly routine basis on some sites I participate in, and there are currently very active Meta discussions regarding that). We want to encourage the former and discourage the latter, but there is currently no automated way to tell which is which. This could end up rewarding "bad" voting given that downvoting good content "counts" the same as downvoting bad content. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 15:48
5

The trend at SE is to avoid or mask negative stimulus because it discourages participation. E.g. negative reputation changes are not notified of to diminish morale drop and frustrated outcries from affected users.

The idea is thus that worse answers receive fewer upvotes, and downvotes are only reserved for really bad (e.g. harmful) advice. As long as downvotes cost reputation, the reputation system is not sustainable otherwise.

So, as long as the reputation system forces users to only use downvotes in rare, egregious cases, any feature intended to encourage them would drop on deaf ears because of that stronger disincentive.

-9

Will downvotes on answers that get deleted count toward the badge? Right now, you get your one rep downvote "cost" back if the answer is deleted. This could encourage more people to downvote NAA answers and similar crap that is destined for deletion (helping their posters proceed more quickly to answer bans), but then it reduces the "cost" of getting this badge dramatically if you can get most, if not all, of your 5k rep back by just downvoting answers that are obviously going to get deleted at some point (leaving the answers that are just bad, but not deleteable per se).

It might be interesting or worthwhile to make the badges specific to downvoting stuff that isn't deleted - sometimes it seems that the one-rep penalty is a dis-incentive to vote down answers that do attempt to answer the question but are horribly wrong, misguided, based on false assumptions, or otherwise bad. I'm talking about answers that encourage using operations that perform undefined behavior in C, answers that assume that strings are mutable in Java, or other similarly honest but misguided attempts to help.

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    See Donald Duck's comment.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 13:50
-50

Proposal for suitable badge names:
enter image description here

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    You mean "Downvote n answers" or "Downvote answers n times"? Pretty sure you can only vote once for an answer...
    – LinusG.
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 11:51
  • @LinusGeffarth Yes you're right. I will update that.
    – TGrif
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 11:52
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    I feel like those names don't suit the point OP was trying to make. OP wanted to honor downvotes for cleaning up SO, not label someone as "Grumpy" which is the exact opposite.
    – LinusG.
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 11:53
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    @LinusGeffarth Feel free to downvote.
    – TGrif
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 11:55
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    Ha, good point. Will do. Does anyone honor me for that now?
    – LinusG.
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 11:57
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    -1 Because I really want the cantankerous badge and I figure I should start now.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 3:44
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    How can I earn Sneezy and Doc? Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 4:20
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    @LinusGeffarth Some answers deserve 5000 downvotes though. I like this post, it made me laugh. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 8:17
  • 6
    There should be a badge for 10 year as a member too called "Old" and you can be an Old and Gumpy member :-)
    – Andreas
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 11:27
  • 2
    +156 rep so far for a suggestion that currently has an aggregate rating of -42. That's an interesting edge case.
    – Beska
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:30
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    There is no reputation on Meta, @Beska.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:34
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    @CodyGray Really? Had no idea that had changed...I haven't been active on Meta in a while, I guess.
    – Beska
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:36
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    The reputation shown here is the same reputation you have on the main site (minus caching effects, I guess). The global Stack Exchange Meta is a separate site, so it still has its own reputation system. The per-site metas don't. @Beska
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:37
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    Not sure what you mean, @Andrew. I honor every incoming Meta question with a downvote, as do many others. :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 5:03
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    -1 for the answer, +25 for your honour. A gold "cantankerous" badge, it'd be a prized possession for sure. Good for showing off in job interviews too.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 8:18
-77

We shouldn't design badges for downvoting, that's a terrible idea. I believe we should receive reputation for each down-vote.

The reputation lost by an answer should be transferred to the downvoter. Why? Because we encourage stronger response to bad questions/answers.

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    It also encourages people to downvote perfectly acceptable answers. Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:45
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    If I got reputation for down voting why would I ever cast any other vote?
    – Joe W
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 13:46
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    I don't see how badges are a terrible idea, but this isn't.
    – Tom
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 14:40
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    Binding a reward system to an action which is completely anonymous and where you're completely free to do all the wrong things... I wouldn't do that.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 8:07
  • @Gimby My point exactly - there's no accountability (or recourse) for unfair downvotes (with the exception of serial voting and outright fraud). Commented Oct 24, 2017 at 15:42

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