46

I haven't been able to find anything about this, but are blatantly wrong answers (i.e. answers that are either demonstrably factually incorrect or obviously won't solve the OP's problem at all) very low quality? Is this a valid reason to flag them as VLQ and/or to delete them in the VLQ queue?

Alternatively, is it valid to flag them as Not An Answer? On the one hand, the poster was legitimately attempting to answer the question, but on the other hand incorrect answers can distract from actually correct answers.

Or should we just downvote and comment explaining why they're incorrect?

Note: I'm not just talking about answers that contain factual inaccuracies or don't fully address the question - I'm talking about answers that are completely and utterly wrong and/or won't help solve the problem in the least - i.e. they quite literally provide no useful or correct information whatsoever.

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  • 7
    Don't flag as NAA if there was an attempt to answer the question. That would just end up being a free rejected flag.
    – Keiwan
    Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 18:50
  • 28
    Rotten apples are still apples, don't flag as "not an apple". Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 18:51
  • 21
    @approxiblue That's true, but wouldn't being rotten make it a "very low quality" apple? I certainly wouldn't want to eat it, and keeping it around would be actively harmful. Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 18:57
  • 11
    We keep it around, complete with negative score and comments saying the answer is bad, so others don't make the same mistake. Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 19:01
  • @approxiblue Fair enough. Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 19:02
  • 25
    SO has entirely too few bad answers. Knowing how not to solve a problem is pretty valuable. Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 19:27
  • 3
    The intended/preferred use of the VLQ on SO may differ but, in the real world, correctness of an answer is a pretty important quality.
    – Peter
    Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 9:47
  • 1
    @HansPassant I've never looked at it that way, before seeing your comment. I'll remember that when reviewing.
    – Bugs
    Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 11:21
  • 9
    @HansPassant answers that are incorrect because they take a naive approach - or otherwise fall into some interesting trap that others might fall into in future - can certainly have value as an example of what not to do. But most "bad answers" here aren't such canonical examples of common errors; instead, they're just gibbering idiocy, and gibbering idiocy has no value.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 16:02
  • 2
    @Glorfindel I don't see how this question about when to use "Very Low Quality" flags can possibly be a duplicate of a post that mentions the idea of things being "Not Answer"s but doesn't mention "Very Low Quality" flags even once. Sure, it's a duplicate if you assume that VLQ is a strict subset of NAA, as some people do, but that's pretty controversial.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 15:27
  • @MarkAmery The topic is Are blatantly wrong answers very low quality? and the duplicate clearly answers that. In case you're not aware, flagging NAA winds up in the VLQ anyways. I'm not sure why that would be seen as controversial (although I freely admit it can be confusing)
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 21:22
  • @Machavity my mistake - you're right that the section on "Wrong" answers does indeed address this question (and gives the same conclusion as Servy's accepted answer here). As for NAA vs VLQ, while they end up in the same queue, there is nonetheless some disagreement over whether there are circumstances in which one is appropriate but the other is not. See e.g. meta.stackoverflow.com/q/314679/1709587 where George argues that they describe wholly distinct categories of posts and Tiny Giant argues that VLQ is a subset of NAA - those are slightly different takes.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 21:40

4 Answers 4

60

No, VLQ is not for posts with factual inaccuracies or for answers that you don't think adequately answer the question. That's what downvotes are for.

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  • Not necessarily a case of simply containing factual inaccuracies or not adequately answering the question so much as completely and utterly incorrect and doesn't help solve the problem in the least. Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 18:47
  • 5
    @EJoshuaS but still an answer, and being incorrect/irrelevant doesn't necessarily make it low quality; it simply makes it not useful (aka downvote)
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 18:55
  • 1
    Okay, so, I think I've got this: upvotes and downvotes are for indicating post quality, so a post that everyone upvotes must be very high quality. But a post that everyone downvotes isn't very low quality. It all makes sense now, and oh, my, this kool-aid is delicious, isn't it?
    – jscs
    Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 13:28
  • @JoshCaswell A post that attracts downvotes is low quality, not very low quality.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 14:11
  • 5
    What is considered VLQ, then? Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 8:06
  • 2
    @immibis No one on SO really knows, it's a continues confusion, there has been attempts to merge the 2 flags meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/318952/…, meta.stackexchange.com/questions/214583/…. Personally I use VLQ for link-only answers (which some say are NAA), but I use it since if OP edit posts its automatically clear'd Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 8:12
  • 1
    @immibis Any post that would meet the criteria for VLQ would also meet the criteria for some other flag, so I personally never use them at all. Any post that meets the criteria for VLQ is usually not an answer, or in some rare cases, abusive.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 14:27
  • @Servy "How can I add two integers in Haskell?" -> "1+1" is an answer, but a very low quality one, is it not? Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 4:18
  • @immibis No. That's a post to downvote, not delete.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 14:11
  • @Servy Is it, or is it not, a very low-quality answer? (Without reference to the flag) Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 21:58
  • @immibis If you have a problem with the name of the flag, then by all means, propose a new name for the flag. The post would not merit a VLQ flag.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 22:01
  • 1
    @Servy Based on the discussion in this thread, how about the "XXX TODO USELESS - REMOVE THIS FLAG" flag? Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 22:32
  • @immibis change the all caps and then I'm fine with it.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 22:36
  • @Servy All caps were to help indicate sarcasm, same as "XXX TODO" Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 22:42
  • @immibis I know. My response was also being sarcastic.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 22:47
34

That's my pain for all the years on Stack Overflow.

On Stack Overflow, nobody ever cares for the answer correctness or fact checking.

It's mind-blowing when you realize that, but it's a fact. There are no rules or guidelines on how to deal with blatantly wrong answers. Neither mods are involved in any matters regarding the answer's quality.

So yes, all you have is your silly vote, just to be countered by a comforting upvote from a Good Samaritan/a fellow rep-whore. Therefore all you can do is just to move on. In theory, you can waste some part of your life, trying to explain what's wrong with their answer to a yet another arrogant rep-whore, but after a few tries you'd give up. Move on to Wikipedia, where people do care, whether the information on their site is correct or not.

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  • 5
    By the way: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/281787/…
    – Pang
    Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 10:02
  • 1
    @Pang is there a TL:DR anywhere suggesting a replacement? I don't mind to use whatever officially recommended politically correct substitution. Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 10:05
  • 15
    I've been saying this time and again: upvotes indicate popularity, not quality. The "correct answers will rise to the top" nonsense answers this question gets, along with the incidental one or two examples the poster can find, is repeated way too often and, ironically, blatantly false, yet upvoted. See also meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/299875/restrict-up-vote-rights/…, meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/302275/…
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Mar 7, 2017 at 10:23
  • 8
    Could you please nominate yourself in the next moderator elections so that you can use binding delete votes to do something about blatantly wrong answers instead of getting closer and closer to leaving SO? Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 2:34
  • 8
    I share the opinion that SO lacks a mechanism to handle plain wrong answers (downvotes are totally inefficient) but this answer isn't really constructive right now. Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 8:55
  • 6
    @DenysSéguret so you have to live with it. Just like we all have to live with non-constructive idea of Stack Overflow which declared goals are mutually exclusive with its everyday practice. Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 8:57
  • 5
    But, but... now that we have Documentation, we don't need Wikipedia! On Documentation, everything is factually correct. Or at least, based on alternative facts. It is written text so it must be correct. "Post the source? What do you mean, I did post the whole source code!"
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 16:12
  • 1
    (On the bright side, I now and then see diamond mods with the relevant technical expertise delete-hammering blatantly incorrect answers.)
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 8, 2017 at 16:15
  • 2
    1. You can vote down incorrect answers. 2. You can comment on incorrect answers, explaining why you feel the answer is wrong and encouraging the author to revise. 3. You can write your own answer and include supporting evidence. So, that's three ways to deal with wrong answers. They seem to be working – if there's an epidemic of wrong answers or users writing wrong answers and refusing to improve them in the face of evidence, please point it out. You could even edit your answer here so that we might understand why you feel the way you do.
    – Caleb
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 13:27
  • 7
    What a load of nonsense. If you want to have a one-man say on what is "right" and what is "wrong", this is not the site for you. Here, peer review is an important part of the process. Who's to say that you're right when you deem something to be "blatantly wrong"? It is not up to one person (and a mod validating the flag) to proclaim/decide/dictate that. And you really should know & understand this basic tenet by now. Furthermore, this post is exceptionally ranty for a 117k user with "common sense"... Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 13:39
  • 2
    @ZebThan or you know, you lack the experience to distinguish right from wrong? Note that a copy-pasteable piece of code that appears to solve your immediate problem does not have to be the correct - in the sense of efficiency, security or overall approach.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 15:06
  • 1
    @CodeCaster I can think of my own examples of entrenched poor practices (e.g. abuse of singleton pattern), but I don't think they indicate a real problem with the SO model. If SO didn't exist, people would still recommend easy but flawed solutions. If there are hundreds of answers recommending the practice you cite, there are probably also hundreds of blog posts and thousands of projects in GitHub that do the same thing. A good approach is to write a question and answer that explains the right way (according to you) and why you think so, and point people to it whenever the topic comes up.
    – Caleb
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 15:25
  • 1
    @CodeCaster - there is a huge difference between something being "incorrect" and "flawed, but somewhat correct". If something works, it is, to some extend, correct. There is also a difference between "correct" and "perfect". In some cases you don't need perfect. Correct is good enough. Of course pointing out that there is a better solution is great and you should do it, but deleting an answer that is correct only because you want your answer to be the top one is wrong (even when it actually is better). All of us can read, and check all the answers. Sometimes what you need is in the comments.
    – ZebThan
    Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 10:31
  • 1
    @ZebThan Yes, there is a difference between something that appears, at first glance, to work, but that actuality has major problems that make it non-functional in ways that aren't immediately apparent. The difference is that the latter is much, much more harmful. if the code obviously doesn't work at a glance, then you know you don't have a working solution and will keep looking for one. if you think you have a working solution when you don't then you won't keep looking for an actual solution, and will need to deal with all of the negative consequences of the broken solution.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 16:55
  • 1
    @ZebThan So your answer is simply that you don't care if you're giving people harmful advice, because it's their own fault if they actually follow it. Really? That's what you're sticking with? I'm not saying all such answers merit deletion, but they should be at least marked as being bad answers (through voting). When really horrible answers that are actively harmful to readers are the top voted answers, then readers can't trust in the site or its content.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 13, 2017 at 13:18
19

If the answer was an actual attempt at answering the question - even if it's completely wrong - downvote and maybe comment what's wrong. There is no appropiate flag for this situation.

If the answer is not an attempt at answering (for example they have the same problem or are just saying thank you...) flag as NAA.

If the answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question in any way and maybe has severe content or formatting problems making it not understandable at all, then you can flag as VLQ. (Obviously as long as it isn't spam). This flag is really only for when a post is completely unsalvageable and not for when the provided answer is wrong.

8

Rightness/wrongness is not flaggable for one very good reason: who are you to proclaim/dictate that a post is "blatantly wrong"? What if you're wrong?

We have a system of peer review to determine whether a post is accurate and helpful, or not, and that system is voting. Is it perfect? No.

But allowing one person to remove content by casting a flag saying "this is wrong" (and then one mod who is likely not a domain expert to validate the flag on faith) would be so supremely dangerous that I can't believe I'm seeing so much support for the notion. The number of people here who swear blind that they are uniquely qualified to determine "truth" is staggering, and frightening. Please tell me you don't go through your real lives with such arrogant stubbornness?!

Peer review is a basic tenet of this site, and it always has been. Flagging is for identifying and removing non-content, not for bypassing the system of peer reviewing posts that are content.

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  • 3
    I'm a little lost - where are you seeing support for flagging for content removal based on factual accuracy?
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 13:44
  • 1
    @BoltClock It's what the question is asking if they should do. This is stating that you shouldn't and explaining why...If you wanted to know what prompted the OP to ask the question, ask them. There have also been quite a few people in comments saying that they don't like the fact that VLQ isn't for posts with factual inaccuracies. LRiO isn't saying that SE or mods or anyone like that is suggesting that VLQ should be used for wrong answers.
    – Servy
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 14:13
  • I agree that answers should not be forcefully deleted just based on their correctness, especially since the voting system deals with those answers pretty well already. However, it's not like blatantly wrong answers don't exist or can't be identified by a single person. I'm talking about answers that might say Java = Javascript, or C pointers and Java references are the exact same thing ... I've once had a discussion with someone who had rewritten the OP's simple boolean logic into something that was clearly not equivalent but argued that it was the same. I'd call these blatantly wrong.
    – Keiwan
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 14:35
  • @Bo​​​​​​​​​​ltClock: the premise of the question, for one Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 15:34
  • @Keiwan: That is still your interpretation of the situation. Of course, it might also be mine, and 95% of other people. But it is so so dangerous to say "I know best therefore I will have the final say", especially when you think you are absolutely sure (because that's when you want to take unilateral action). Who decides when an error is sufficiently "blatant"? Checks and balances are there for a reason. There is no justification for asking us to just take one person at their word on a whim! Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 15:36
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit Again, I fully agree with you on this point. I don't support the idea that one or two people should have the final say because they think or even know that an answer is wrong. Either the answerer themselves will delete it or the score of the post will indicate to any reader that there might be something wrong with it. I'm just saying that many things about code are deterministic enough to be able to identify clearly wrong answers. I'm not saying these should be deleted, but not everything is up for interpretation, opinion or discussion (Unlike philosophy, politics...)
    – Keiwan
    Commented Mar 9, 2017 at 16:07
  • As an example, I was thinking in particular of this answer. The OP's problem was that the Google Play Store claimed that his Android app was incompatible with his tablet (even though it was running the correct version of Android); it turned out that his Manifest required Call permission and you can't call tablets, so he had to add a line to the Manifest specifying that the ability to call the device is optional. The answer in question was an attempt to answer the question, it just mis-diagnoses the problem, so the answer won't help. Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 16:07
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    @EJoshuaS: Sure, so now it's up to X people to indicate their disagreement with the answer using their voting privilege. If more people disagree with the answer than agree with it, it will have a negative score, indicating to the OP that this answer shouldn't be used. Commented Mar 10, 2017 at 16:20

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